Posted by
sandiexxxx
15 yrs ago
HK dog rescue is full, and just not able to take any more. SPCA, will just destroy them, even tho they raise funding/money based on their "no kill'' rubbish.. they do it daily, with some ''excuse''.
We have huge country parks here, why can't the Government give some land/space within the country parks, to house these abandoned pets, under HK Dog Rescue/or some other organization. I am sorry I can with four dogs already do much more.
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edelg
15 yrs ago
Hi there Bougainville,
I was really saddened to read your above posts.
HK dog rescue does a great job and they're worth a try, I got a rescue dog from them so time back and they do strive to re-home all the dogs they rescue. SPCA - well I can't say but when I contacted them about adopting a dog you would have thought they'd be straight on it, but they were really laid back and not too helpful(do they actually want to re-home dogs or what?!)
I think theres a dog rescue society on Lamma island too.
I just did a google search for HK dog rescue when I wanted to adopt and found out about these various options this way.
As for the government here, I agree, they just don't give ash*t. As an expat (and I'm not saying my home country is perfect. far from it) but it's clear to me that in HK everything is utterly disposable. Sure ,there are plenty of great dog owners,whom I can say I regularly pass when walking my two, but there's also tonnes who get these puppies such as you found, keep them as a cute accessory for a while,until the next breed becomes fashionable,and then just abandon them. It's just how it is here, no responsibility for own actions etc...maybe also the result of such a wealthy place dare I say?
I think here it's just 'who can we blame for the stray dog problem' rather than what can we do to raise awareness and stop this cruelty. So maybe Hong Kong Dog rescue is worth a final shot, perphaps some one could foster even if they don't have room at their kennels.
In short really sorry to hear all you've been through with these stray animals, but I take my hat off to you for the great kindness you've already shown with the animals you did save. I guess we can all make a difference in our own way, I won't hold my breath on the rest of HK following suit though.
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The attitudes here towards abandoning animals shocks and saddens me as well. My husband and I have already adopted 4 dogs and 4 cats but I'm sure, if we could, there are so many more we could help and try to rescue personally. However, sometimes just being an individual, you can only do so much. I am a member of the following group 'STOP! save hk's cats and dogs' - if you feel strongly about this issue, the only way it's going to get better is if we DO something to make the government change its ways. They are not voluntarily going to stop their current practice.
Here is some information about this group:
Hong Kong No Kill City Forum URL: http://www.hknokillcity.org/eng/main_e.html
FACEBOOK URL: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?s
id=67ad4685f15c368fa5b5e4df658dc007&gid=61121261595
Here is some information about the group:
Hong Kong's main method of dog and cat population control is to kill the surplus. That means about 2000 animals (often healthy) animals a month or 25,000 a year are killed, for the simple fact that they do not have a home.
This cruel and inhumane policy has been used for decades and is obviously ineffective.
Many have been working very hard at helping homeless animals, but no matter how much is done, however hard we try and however valuable our work is to individual animal lives, it is still not enough.
The task of STOP (previously known as the Hong Kong No Kill City Forum) is to persuade the Hong Kong Government to control/limit the surplus of animals, as well as educate the general public about how to prevent the surplus.
We need to stop the problem from the source!
By implementing the below we will lessen the surplus of animals that are killed just because they do not have a home.
These simple, effective measures include:
1.Tightening the controls on both legal and illegal importation of pets.
2.Introducing Breeder's Licenses and monitoring them.
3. Implementing and enforcing stricter Pet Shop regulations.
* The microchip system needs to be improved so that all animals can be traced back to someone accountable. Be that the mother, to the pet shop or to the new owner. The loophole in the existing law needs to be closed.
4. Advocating "Responsible Pet Ownership" via education i.e Dogs don't belong in cages.
5. Subsidizing desexing will mean positive benefits for the community-- money saved, litters of puppies saved, life expectancy of the animals prolonged and the decrease of animals populations.
6. To see that Hong Kong implements a trial "Trap, Neuter, Release" (known as TNR) program to help decrease the overall stray dog population (like the already successful Cat Colony Care Program)
STOP’S 2009 GOALS
* STOP WANTS MORE ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE PET TRADE
HK needs to microchip all companion animals in the "purchasers" name before being sold. Accountability is then transferred and can be traced and monitored.
*STOP WANTS TO EDUCATE & REACH OUT TO THE PUBLIC
Most people do not realize that the majority of the pets in stores are illegally smuggled. This means horrendous conditions and cruel treatment by unscrupulous legal and illegal breeders. Most of these pets become sick and die soon after the initial purchase. This actually costs you, the consumer, thousands of extra hidden costs as well as the heartache of losing a pet.
*STOP STILL WANTS TNR
We will still be pushing and working for TNR (trap, neuter and release) throughout Hong Kong. We'd want AFCD to live up to their promise to start a dog trial TNR in 2009. We will support this trial in any way they need us to.
We are also focusing most of our attention this year on dogs* as we need to push the above campaigns over the goal line as many of the 20+ NGO dog shelters are currently at capacity and struggling to exist.
Also, on a side note, could you ask the SPCA or Pet Central in Sai Kung for a list of the many dog rescue groups operating around Sai Kung and the NT? I know there are many.
Good luck! - I also live in Sai Kung and I know what it's like with all the abandoned dogs.
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After reading all the post here, I am as happy as I am sad as well. Happy that there are still people who care and sad that like deliran said : one could only do so much, there are so many abandoned animals, people abandoned their dogs and cats with all those ridiculous reasons, the most I heard is: I am going to have a baby so it is not appropriate to have pets at home, or I am gonna move to a government housing estate and dogs are not allowed. I adopted my dog at HKDR also but from my last visit to HKDR, I can see that the kennel is full and unless government is willing to step in, I am afraid this problem may not be resolve soon.
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It really breaks my heart to hear these stories. (I could only glance over half of what you'd written b/c of the real physical ache while reading.) I still really miss my dog (who passed away last Christmas of kidney failure after 14 years) and I honestly don't understand how ppl can just discard a life (a life!) so easily and quickly whenever it becomes inconvenient.
Not sure what I can do though - other than to donate money to them during their fundraising drives and to adopt our next dog from HK Dog Rescue. (I agree that from what I've heard as well, the SPCA here doesn't seem to be doing its job and does not deserve our attention or money.)
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momi
15 yrs ago
I tried to adopt a dog from HKDR a few months ago. The person who replied to my email said something along the lines of "There is no way we will give you a dog since you don't have anybody to take care of it during the day. I feel sorry for your current dog." I live by myself and don't have a helper so my dog is by herself when i am at work. I know this is not an ideal situation but i try my best to give her the life she deserves. As much as i know HKDR is doing a wonderful job for abandoned animals, I was rather upset when i got such a reply.
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Momi, I am quite shocked that HKDR refused to give you a dog b/c you live by yourself! Surely with the large number of abandoned dogs, they are in need of loving owners and that cannot be a reason for rejecting your offer.
Also I have a friend who adopted a dog recently from Dog Rescue. She lives with her b/f and both work during the day so the dog's alone in the house until her return. HKDR didn't seem to give her a hard time about that.
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momi
15 yrs ago
housed, I filled out a questionnaire and I told them how many hours the dog would be alone in the flat...
exactly, I just wanted to give another dog a home. I was upset because the person told me she was sorry for my current dog! my dog is in fact very happy (on my lap now):))
maybe next time i won't tell them i live by myself...
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I am hoping to get some advice from everyone - we adopted a dog from HKDR about a year ago who is now such a lovely dog and a great addition to our family. Unfortunately in the current credit crunch I have lost my job and we are now leaving Hong Kong and will not be able to take her with us. I have tried advertising for a family to give her a good home but have not succeeded yet. We really don't want to hand her back to the dog rescue place, but what choices do we have?
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Good on HKDR for vetting potential adopters. I think people who keep a dog and work long hours are very cruel. Dogs thrive on attention, activity and exercise. My friend had a young big husky that was home alone for 12-15 hours a day. It was horrible. Poor think used to eat up the furniture/cds out of pure frustration. Only for the owner to say his dog was 'badly behaved'. I don't agree it's better to keep a dog in these conditions then to be put down- I really don't.
I think you need to accept the fact that not everyway has the same view of animals then say UK. Just go to continental Europe (France, Spain, Italy) or middle east or pretty much everywhere else in the world.. and see how animals are treated.
Hong Kong has jumped leaps and bounds in it's treatment towards animals in a very short time. If you feel very passionately about it, I suggest you join education programmes or volunteer at the numerous animal charities. Out of curiosity, how many animals are put down in UK (I am assuming that’s where you come from)? When I lived in the UK, I seem to remember the RSPA was pretty active dealing with the nastier side of animal treatment including abandonment, dog fighting, cruelity etc. Let’s not even start to venture into the farming sector….
The only way this will change in HK (which it is doing) is through gradual awareness and education. The concept of pets is a very recent phenomenon and in fact an upside to more owning pets is a growing awareness.
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I just read that the US puts down nearly 10 million animals a year. So very roughly the same as HK per person.
http://www.americanhumane.org/about-us/newsroom/fact-sheets/animal-shelter-euthanasia.html
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It happens everywhere and is happening in crueler ways than usual in the US at the moment.
http://www.alternet.org/story/138634/the_soaring_rate_of_abandoned_animals_is_the_latest_sign_of_a_deep_economic_crisis/?page=1
Same law/enforcement issues everywhere. Quote from the article:
"After all, most states consider it a crime abandon animals (although such anti-cruelty laws are not strictly enforced)."
These are very worrying signs as these things are also often precursors to or predictors of breakdown and abuse within the family.
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Thanks to Deliran for highlighting STOP's campaigns - please join our group on Facebook and help us to fight this issue at source. We are urging the Govt to introduce a trap neuter and return programme for dogs to reduce the wild dog populations. We also want stricter controls on pet shops, and measures to ensure that those buying dogs from pet shops and subsequently abandoning them can and are held accountable. The Govt tell us that they need evidence of community support for these measures - those who have commented on this page are clearly part of that community support so please make sure that your voices are heard and help to be part of the solution.
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Pumpkin Girl, isn't there an email address we can send our notes of support for this trap neuter and release programme? I've sent mine in, but I've lost the email address I sent it to - could you post it in case others want to support this programme as well?
Slippery nick - putting dogs down isn't always cruel if they're sick, etc. but abandoning them in the country park to fend for themselves then rounding them up and 'putting them down' en masse is. As is letting them starve to death in those parks.
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can't agreed more to bougainville's reply about high cost of vet bill. this has became a major obstacle for people contemplating of adopting a dog, more so, some people may found an abandoned dog but because of the vet bill, they chose to see nothing, hear nothing and know nothing... (sigh...)
Some vets are really costly, and from my experience, some of the vets just don't care about their animal patients but focus on whether the owners can afford to pay the bill...
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If you happen to live on Lantau Island, you are lucky to be close enough to take your animals to Dr Jo at the Pui O vet clinic. He is an excellent vet who seems much more concerned about the animals rather than the high fees he could be charging. He is one of the best vets I've come across.
Bouganville, you're right , if we only get the gov't to use the trap neuter and release program, it won't solve everything (though it would help with the dogs and cats breeding uncontrolled in the country parks that are killing the wild life). It's a major step in the right direction though. I would also like to see something like they have in Los Angeles where owners are required to de-sex their animals.
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Bougainville - you truly are a great person. I volunteer for the HKDR and am also fostering - what has happened to the 2 dobbie pups? Do u need some help? If there is anything that i can do please let me no....im not sure what i can do? but if u need help with advertising for adoption or fostering???
again, hats off to u! if only everyone was like u the world would be a better and much more dog loving place!
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Thanks to everyone for interesting points of view. It's true that HKDR kennels are full, but we still try our best to help when we can. We could certainly have taken the Doberman pups because sadly, it's still relatively easy to re-home breeds while the mongrels or mixed breeds are overlooked.
Regarding our adoption criteria, it's true that we don't put dogs into homes where they are left all day unless the dog is old and happy to sleep most of the day. Many dogs are abandoned because of their destructive or "bad (ie, frustrated) behaviour which happens when you leave a dog alone for too long on a regular basis. Thank about it: what is a dog supposed to do? Read? Play computer games? Toilet train itself? You'd be surprised what is expected of puppies that are left for up to 10 hours a day. They get punished for daring to pee in the wrong place or kept in cages so they have to eat, sleep and s**t in the same small space. Not everyone has the time to have a dog in their home, and those who love dogs but are at work every day have options, like volunteering with animal organisations. Adopting a cat is another option.
Re a solution, desexing is the only long-term answer. Personally I would like to see compulosry desexing. SPCA do have a low cost desexing scheme in place plus a mobile surgery, so it doesn't have to be too expensive.
Vets should also be made to microchip the many dogs that are brought to clinics without microchip (and rabies vaccination). As it's already the law that all dogs over 5 months must be chipped, why isn't this being enforced? Out of the very many dogs that HKDR take from AFCD (government) kennels, the majority have no microchip. (These dogs are all killed after 4 days unless selected for re-homing). Slippery Nick thinks killing dogs isn't inhumane, and if the dog is ill or suffering it's true, but Slippery, have you ever been there and watched a healthy young dog kicking, fighting and struggling as it's pinned down to be killed? How humane do you think that is? Try it one day and then see how you feel.
There are many things that could be done to help improve the situation although while there are still people who think of dogs as "things", there will always be an abandonment problem. It's not just in HK, it's everywhere, but that doesn't mean we should just accept the way things are. HK is small enough to be able to make a huge difference if the many schemes that have been proposed to the government were actually implemented.
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momi
15 yrs ago
I understand HKDR puts the welfare of the dogs first. I was upset cos I am not one of those who expect dogs to behave like human when they are on their own. Regarding the suitability of expats as adopters -- there are so many ads in Classifieds saying we are leaving and sadly we can't take our beloved dogs with us. or We are moving to a small apartment and dogs are not allowed. What is wrong with these people?
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momi
15 yrs ago
B,actually I have a dog and she is not my first dog. I know my being away from home isnt ideal but I wonder how many animals will be without a home if singletons/ working couples are to give up their dogs so that they can wait to go to homes where there are people during the day? or they decide not to take in animals cos they cant be at home to take care of them?
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Bougainville, after reading your story of "the farm" I am really aghast and wonder what in the earth is happening behind that gate, is this rich rich man a Chinese, an expat? I really like to know, I suppose there must be a way to stop this cruelty. Can police do something about it???
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abl
15 yrs ago
Momi I live on my own and when I adopted my first dog I used to come home every lunch break to walk her. It still was hard for her and she chewed through all my furniture out of boredom. I ended up with a live-in helper (and 3 dogs) because they give me so much love and affection when I get home from work, while they themselves have no alternative other than to accept my arrangement for them, which means I want to do right by them. Have you thought about a part-time helper who can come in every day to walk your dog?
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I've been helping abandoned animals for over 10 years. I don't belong to any animal welfare organisations and just do it with my own time and money. For so many years, I've seen and heard all sorts of sad stories.
I wanna say here is please try to transform the anger or wondering why people can do such cruel thing to the animals into action to help the animals. Become a volunteer of one of the animal welfare organisations, help them to raise fund, rehome etc. That would be more helpful.
When picking up a cat or a dog in the street, I never ask SPCA/HKDR/SAA to keep them. Firstly I know SPCA will not accept or they simply call the fishery dept. to kill them. ( No Kill means kill by fishery dept.) HKDR/SAA kennels are always full. What I do is to post a rehoming message in the websites and so far, I have rehomed about 30 cats and dogs.
Rehoming is a very time consuming activity. I talk to the people who interested to know more about them, why they want to adopt, where do they live, are all family members want to have a pet too? Many many questions. If that person is not appropriate, like living in a public housing, too young, abandon animals before, have young kids, have not desexed the existing pet, etc etc. That will take me more time to explain to them why they should not keep a pet. Bcos I dont want to upset people, becos they may end up go to buy one instead of adopting becos the shop keepers will not ask them so many questions and not to sell them a cute pet.
After that, I will let the "potential" adoptor to visit the pet. If they say yes, I usually give them one week to prepare for the things for the new family member. Then, I will deliver the pet to their home.
Besides, desex the stray cats and dogs is the most important thing in controlling the no. of them. You can donate money to support the TNR programs or just catch some stray cats and dogs and take them to desex.
There are so many thing we can do, just do it.
And for HKDR, I understand their concern of "no body home all day". But in my point of view, have a quiet loving home is better than in the kennel. If someone can give the poor dogs a real home, why not? And HKDR judges people if they are appropriate just by filling the form. No pre home visit at all. How do you know people are not lying to you?
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momi
15 yrs ago
Hi abl, i guess I was lucky but all my doggies never gave me any big problems when they were puppies. I dont like the idea of helping helpers in my home. my dog wakes with me and i walk her b4 going to work. in the afternoon she naps (all dogs nap i suppose). i leave plenty of food and water around (not good for training but just in case if anything happens to me) and I go home right after work cos i know she is waiting for me.
I agree with jnjnjn that having a loving home is better than in the kennel. How much attention can a dog get in the kennel? sure you can say some dogs like dog friends but i read some of them actually stay in the corner all day. and if people are really honest when they answer the question "will you take your dog with you when you move" we won't see so many dogs in the Classifieds.
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We try to make kennel life as much fun as we can for the dogs, and many enjoy it so much they don't want to leave. The dogs are walked twice a day and have the freedom to run around freely most of the time. They have lots of dogs friends to play with and lots of human company too. So is this better (hopefully short-term) than going to a home where they would be left alone all day for the rest of their lives? We think so. And yes, crates are no better than cages when used to lock dogs up. If zoo animals were kept this way there would be a public outcry.
HKDR kennels aren't ideal and we are overcrowded, but the dogs are loved and taken care of until they go to a home that we think is right for them. Yes, we make mistakes and dogs are brought back by people who weren't honest with us and themselves, but al least we do take dogs back. Nothing is perfect but we try to do the best we can.
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I fully agreed with jnjnjn's reply. and really appreciate what you are doing. I have a somewhat similar experience with HKDR, I have visited their kennel 3 or 4 times and I can see that they really try to give those dogs a life. but the kennel is always full, and from what I can see, the inagressive and smaller ones have to stay inside their room (build like a big cage), I understood that HKDR is a charity oganization and really appreciate the work of the volunteers, but in my opinion, a loving home/owner is still better than staying in the kennel. Of course, HKDR can only do so much, my view is that they are understaff and too many dogs...
and I am wondering, if and that is a big if, I've got a feeling that HKDR always give priority to expats first before the local Chinese, and this is not only me but some friends who has had contact with HKDR before have the same feeling. I don't know maybe we are just being too sensitive, One time I visited the HKDR kennel with my friend who is keen to adopt a dog, but after walking 3 rounds and stayin for about an hour, we couldn't even have a chance to speak to any staff, at the time of our visit, there is a westerner couple, 2 Indian girls visiting the kennel, and the volunteer is showing the couple around. In the end, we just walk out on our own feeling unwelcome, it is a shame cause my friend is really a dog lover and she has all the qualifications of a good home - the dog will never be leave alone for even a minute cause her parents stay at home all day, eventually, she bought a dog at Causeway Bay. This is just to show how busy they are and how understaff they are... and another of my friends e-mail 3 times her form to HKDR but was told they can't find it, in the end, she gave up also and look elsewhere.
Momi, I am with you in the "home alone" issue, I still think it is better to have a clean, loving home than staying in the kennel. Just choose wisely the species that could go along with this criteria and it'll works out. After all not everyone can be so fortunate as our friend here - Bougainville.. (ha-ha)
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No, we don't make distinction between nationalities and have many Chinese adopters and many Chinese volunteers. Our new Adoption Manager is also Chinese (and bi-lingual) but yes, if anyone comes on a Sunday for example, it's hard to deal with everyone at the same time and an adoption can, and should, take a couple of hours. We prefer adopters not to just walk in but to have discussed potential suitable dogs in advance and to know when to expect a visit. As to your friend's lost application, maybe she sent to to hkdogrescue instead of the correct email address as many people do. Every adoption enquiry is answered very quickly. I would also like to add that anyone who goes to a pet shop to buy a puppy just because she has to wait for attention wouldn't be the sort of adopter we would be looking for anyway.
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Yeah, HKDR thank you for the information. You are right, I myself is not very pleased with her buying a dog from pet shop instead of adoption, but I am sure she is just impatient and not "waiting for attention". I can tell you she takes very good care of the dog and love him very much. No one can tell from a few hours of contacts to be really sure about whether he/she would be a respsonsible owner, I am sure you had experienced cases where your adopter abandoned their dogs again for some reasons.. The reason I posted the above reply is just to show that in HK there are too many abandoned/unwanted dogs, and I absolutely understand and appreciate the effort of HKDR...
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I am sure HKDR is doing their best for the dogs. Every organisation has their own way to run the business. It is up to them but I hope they can consider our comments. Rehoming to an expat home may be ideal. Just don't think that we chinese are not all bad to dogs. Turning down an adoption needs techinque, clear explaination and the most important thing is, don't give people impression that we are not helpful and discriminate. We are facing huge competition, there are lots of pet shops and the cute puppies on the shelves. Many people want to adopt instead of buying is becos they somehow want to help the poor dogs. ( certainly, some people think becos it is free or much cheaper than buying one, I dont rehome dogs to these kind of people). But if they tried and got bad experience when asking for a dog, what will they do? Just buy one.
PETA : BUY ONE GET ONE KILLED
SAA is another animal welfare organinsation i respect. Thanks to their clinic offering lower costs for desexing. I have desexed most of the cats and dogs in the streets nearby my home. From 2008 till now, I have desexed more than 50 cats and dogs. I hope this year, I can take the rest to desex and there will be no poor innocence puppies/kittens born any more.
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momi
15 yrs ago
A while ago a celebrity said in a commercial that it cost 4 million dollars to raise a child. Does that mean people shouldnt give birth if they dont have 4 million dollars? and does that mean kids who are from poor families wouldnt be loved? I think the same reasoning goes here. If more people are eligible to adopt dogs the kennels will be less full and can save even more dogs. Again, i fully appreciate the work of rescue organisations, I am just giving my opinion for them to consider. But i admit i really felt like a criminal after i got the somewhat blunt email reply.
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momi
15 yrs ago
Maybe a wake up call but that dog is better off in doggy heaven but even better off in a kennel where it can see and be part of the comings and goings on around it and hopefully eventually find a good home.
???
so what are people supposed to do? take their dogs to the already full kennels and ask them to wait? which one should we take them to?
but we are talking about how to stop abandoning dogs, arent we?
better off in doggy heaven?!
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Momi, "But i admit i really felt like a criminal after i got the somewhat blunt email reply", you do not have to feel that way because I fully understand your good intention. The perfect scenario will be like bougainville's layout, have people 24 hours with our doggies, but this is an imperfect world so we have to compromise, somebody may not agreed but a dog alone at home is still better than straying in the street or staying at the kennels (just my opinion) or be put to death, a dog adopted is a life saved.
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Hi, kittens, like your reply. straight to the point...
another thing is don't stereotype or have the impression that people who buy dogs is not a good person, that they could not be a good owner, and that people who adopt an animal is a responible person and that they will keep their dogs until their last minutes...
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ay, Bougainville, your dog shopping story is very typical of HK family, some people use dogs as a reward or gifts to their children getting a good grade in school or simply a birthday gift, other like live in couple buy a dog to treat it like their child, when the relationship did not work out, they go their separate ways, but either one would take the responsibility of looking after the dog..... no wonder we have so much abandoned dogs around.
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If anyone is interested in volunteering towards this cause, there is an organisation who teaches primary children about dogs through English and they are always looking for volunteers.
http://www.animalsasia.org/index.php?UID=9LQ3T5ZA1386
Essentially they encourage children to think of dogs as lasting companions and friends rather than objects of temporary fun.
Also on the subject of HKDR, our experience with them as been good, our point of contacts have always been really helpful, patient and genuinely seem like they really care about the dogs.
On visiting them, although the kennels are really full which at first sight may seem cruel, the whole time we were there (we were there a good couple of hours) there were volunteers constantly in and out walking the dogs so I think the dogs there are as looked after as their situation allows.
FYI I am 'an expat' I guess (although without the riches!) but I am Chinese, along with the majority of the volunteers there, so it is unfair to say they are discriminate against colour.
I have to say I'm sitting on the fence on this debate of whether a dogs life is better spent in kennels Vs home alone as I see both points, you also have to consider that some dogs are more appropriate in one setting versus the other, for example older dogs might prefer quiet times alone to noisy busy kennels. The answer isn't black and white, just opinions and HKDR have the right to act according to theirs and so does Momi.
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speaking of buying dog, I've seen an ad selling of a GR puppy in the net, is it legal to do this??? I mean, with pet shops they have licence at least but with people seling on their own??? Bougainville, any idea??? I am not buying but just curious...
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bougainville
You say 'I don't think anyone has the right to inflict acts of cruelty on an animal no matter what opinions they hold.'
It isn't okay for people to be cruel to animals (this is obvious) but who decides what is cruel and what isn't, doesn't this vary through opinion?
For example in the UK we consider it cruel for Cats to be entirely 'indoor', even if indoor cats have a longer life span than outdoor cats, their quality of life has been effected but this is normal here and in USA and in many books about cats they will advise you to keep your cat indoors, warning you of all the dangers of a cat being free to roam.
And how do you feel about dogs tails being docked? Because it is illegal in the UK (and many other countries) but legal in the USA (and many other countries) so who is being cruel here?
In a perfect dog world, all dogs would live in a big bungalow, have access to a garden, grassy parks nearby to run around, doggie friends and owners that are never far away etc but how many dogs have this? Especially in Hong Kong! How many Hong Kong Children have this?
Out of curiosity, how many hours do you think is acceptable for a dog to be alone?
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hi, Bougainville, no no I have came across an ad from a family in Kowloon, the ad said they have a golden retriever puppy and they want to sell it for xxxx, I am just curious like is this legal in HK to do private trading of animals. You see, HK government is really not doing much in this regard...I am assuming it is illegal but am not sure... sad, sad sad, another reason why there are so many abandoned dogs... private breeder can profit more than a licensed pet shop cause they don't have to pay rentals and etc...
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Way back in the start of this thread - there was a slight mention of Lamma Animal Welfare. This is an institution here on Lamma, where they run a pet shop, second hand store and foster/re-home animals.
When I first came to this island, there were stray starving cats covering the rubbish bins. Stray/abandoned dogs with mangy coats were everywhere. With a slow and thorough catch/desex/release program, most of these colonies have died a natural death. While they still have a couple of wild packs they are working on, Yung Shue Wan and the surrounding villages are pretty stray dog/cat free.
I think it is a remarkable body of work from a 100 percent voluntary organization (they do pay the girl who looks after the second hand/pet shop) Most of the dogs you meet on lamma are noticeable rescue dogs from the island with many, many showing family resemblance.
I have reason to be thankful - we live near the beach and at night a rather terrifying pack of wild dogs would come and scavenge the bbq pits - there would have been 20-30 of them. They scared me and my children on more than one occasion. I telephoned Lamma Animal Welfare and they sent a volunteer to meet me. We sat at a beach front restaurant and watched as the dogs took over the beach. Slinky dark shadows among the trees.
Within a few weeks - Lamma Animal Welfare had started a feeding program, where they fed the dogs twice a day, well away from people and the bbq pits. Once they had some trust they started the trap/neuter/release program. The results were almost immediate - the dogs were not at the beach at night, they were not scavenging and coming through the housing - setting up a circle of howling at three in the morning, and most importantly, I no longer had to carry a stick when I walked the hills with my dog behind our house.
I know the complete eradication of this pack will take years. I do also know that the eradication of this pack will be humane. No dog will be put down.
While I appreciate the stray/wild/abandonment of dogs is a problem that needs fixing now, we need to also look at solutions that may take years.
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Please get the Dobermans to Hong Kong Dog Rescue. We advertised two recently and had a huge response. As said, sadly we can home breeds without any problem. It's the mongrels who wait for ever.
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call spca inspector 27111000 to check the breeder - i think that's the only way to help the poor dogs
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Good for you Bougainville. Thanks for taking this on. My thoughts are with you.
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It's wonderful to see people showing concern for this subject but HK has a long way to go. In addition to dog abandonment, there is also the awful, insidious crime of dog theft. Walk around Sai Kung and you will see many posters placed by people who have "lost" their beloved pets. I think that in many cases, particularly if a dog is a pedigree or perceived to be a pedigree, it will have been stolen.
The dogs are stolen for obvious reasons:
1. The owners are sometimes contacted if a subsequent poster indicates a high enough reward. However, the thieves will often NOT contact the owner for fear of being caught if the owner alerts the police to what is tantamount to "kidnap for ransom".
2. As such, the dogs are sold to third parties in HK or smuggled to China where companion animals are much in demand.
There are many instances of dogs being sold in HK from the backs of mini-vans. In all likelihood, many of these animals are stolen property. I have never heard of an instance of police or Ag & Fish checking these mobile "pet shops" and prosecuting them for unlicensed trafficking of animals.
Sadly, if a dog is stolen there is little interest from the police who would probably take more interest if the stolen item was a Rolex watch or a handbag. No consideration is given to the immense emotional cost of these crimes.
There is also a lack of centrally-controlled website where victims of dog loss/theft can post their information/details and where people who find a lost animal can post details of the find. As such, when an animal is lost, their owners must frantically place posters all over town, call the SPCA, Ag & Fish animal control etc. etc.
I feel that such a website would be extremely useful and could also perhaps be used for shaming people who are known to have abandoned animals though privacy laws may prohibit this.
The bottom line is that the various animal welfare agencies (God Bless them) do not have a focal point for the management of lost/stolen dog issues; the Government does not take the issue of animal abandonment, cruelty and theft seriously enough & many members of the local population have an appalling attitude towards animals.
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Sorry, one more thing: Could a website such as this one (Expat HK) host a simple section perhaps entitled Animal Welfare? Under this section there could be subsections for:
Dogs Lost/Stolen
Dogs Found
Sightings of Mobile "Pet Shops" (Where? When? Vehicle registration No. etc.)
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Ed
15 yrs ago
We have a pets section in our classifieds http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/classifieds/
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Momi but i m sorry i just dont agree with you. As you said you dont' like a live in helper or you don't even want a helper comes to ur home for walking the dog - why do you have dogs in the first place? It's not just what YOU like to do but you have to care about what your dogs want too. You WANT to think that your dogs are napping during the day do u come home in the evening the dogs wake up and have someone to play with. Hey - how you know the dogs are napping the entire time while you are at work? You have a cam at home? Also - what else can he do while no one is around? Apart from lying on the floor doing nothing - poor things.
You only care about what YOU want but how u know this is what the dogs want? You want to hav someone to make a fuss on u when u come home - ok fair enough - but u need to care what u dogs need too - company around them. And someone to play with them and walk them - within the 9am-6pm while you are not there.
I have a lovely dog from HKDR and i hired a maid to take care of my dog especially. Ok some people may think i'm wasting my money but i think to have someone to take care of the dog and walk the dog it's the basic thing i need to have once i have a committed to have a dog living with me.
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Maybe you should check out the Lantau Buffalo Association among others. Sadly, yes, cows are abandoned too.
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I haven't read this whole thread as it's a bit of a marathon but I just want to say good on anyone who can help out the situation whether it be through volunteering, fostering, adopting or donating goods or money. I do a little work for PALS whenever I can and have seen with my own eyes how all of their hard work is appreciated by the animals but unfortunately doesn't fix more than the tip of the iceberg. I'm all for compulsory microchipping and regestration with an annual fee. The fee would be low for a desexed pet (such as $50) but high for a breedable animal (such as $1000). This would mean that you only keep your animal entire if you intend to breed with it. It would mean fewer unwanted pregnancies, fewer homeless puppies and kittens. Desexing would be cheap and easy to arrange so noone would have an excuse...either pay the annual fee to keep your pet entire or have it cheaply desexed and everyone is happy. The cost of paying 'dog inspectors' to go around and scan dogs for chips, check registration fees are paid etc, would be lower than the cost of housing, feeding, treating, euthanising, etc, homeless animals and they would act as revenue collectors of sorts too which would be rolled back into the project.
Unscrupulous puppy importers from the mainland need to be cracked down on. If we close the market for them, their business will not survive. Much of Europe has cracked down on illegal breeding and importing of teacup chihuahuas and yorkies from Poland and the Ukraine by standing united against them and saying 'no more'
If all else fails, I'm not against euthanising stays. It's better for them to be put to sleep than to be out on the street fighting, starving and getting sick; or in a cage at a shelter. It might sound harsh but I've seen a lot from many perspectives and that's my opinion.
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mdap
15 yrs ago
I have three dogs, two rescued and one purchased from a breeder in Australia. I live on the Peak and over the past three years we have seen several packs develop and roam. Recently they have become more agressive as they have marked their territory for themselves. This resulted in a fight to the death a few weeks that left one of the smaller mogrels howling from the woods as it no doubt bled to death. The dogs body was recovered some days later by the government catchers who tried, but failed, to catch any of the other dogs. HK has a massive feral dog problem and the time for a cull is at hand. I am a dog lover but hoards of feral dogs are no good to anyone. On top of this the government needs an education program in schools about living with animals and we need harsh punishment for those found abandoning animals. Sadly it is not just local's who fail to realise dogs fart, smell and eat - it is also short term expats who recently have swelled the kennels as they abandon their dogs as they exit HK.
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Dear HKDR,
I think you have a misconception that dogs need to be walked everyday ....... I have 2 Shih-Tzu and I do NOT walk them everyday .......... I work at home and am with them everyday and I DELIBERATELY do not want my dogs to be pampered. This is my deliberate training.
Yes .... dogs (especially males ones) will chew and bite to get attention ...... I do not think its about BOREDOM .......... After so many years, the male dog still bite stuff or misplace certain particular things even when I go out for just 15mins. Its just about getting ATTENTION. Every evening of day, the dogs will second guess or eager-eye me to take them out, but I explain to them "No".
In light of this, I think there must be a way round the fact that we are a working society and dogs need to live by our schedule. If we work late, we just need to walk the dog late. The fact that potential adopters are turned away becuz they work in day time ....... then this is really NOT helping the situation.
I would suggest that HKDR target and pressure the government to make it an offence to abandon dogs.
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To Mycalho,
PEOPLE LIKE YOU SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAVE ANY PETS !!
Why do you think it's just up to a dog charity to pressure the Gov to change the laws ??
When it is up to every person who cares !!
By the way HKDR were at last weeks LEGCO meeting regarding changing the animal laws here in HK !!
WHERE WERE YOU ?
I guess you were walking your dogs on the only one day in a year you walk your dogs.
Or maybe you were " PAMPERING " them by feeding them their dinner !!
In some countries the laws clearly states your dog must be walked at least 3 times a day for at least 30 mins.. do a google you are very lucky not to be living in one of these countries at this time as you would be breaking the animal cruelty law.
Thank god we have these charities such as HKDR who will not allow people to adopt without checking the people out first and their background.
To HKDR
THANK YOU ...
Please keep on doing what you are doing ..we respect and support all you do for the dogs.
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Mycalho, words fail me.
I have been rescuing, rehoming and rehabilitating dogs for about 25 years in Hong Kong. I live with dogs, I work with dogs, I breathe dogs, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. I know dogs and how they think and behave, and understand their basic needs and motivation.
If you think exercise is pampering then what more can I say? You are a lost cause.
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Devon
15 yrs ago
Mycalho, words fail me also!
"Dogs (especially male ones) will chew and bite to get attention." Er.... what makes you think male dogs are more likely to exhibit this behaviour? The sex of the dog makes no difference when it comes to chewing etc. Your post indicates your dog sufferes from separation anxiety.
"...not about boredom..."!!!!!!!!!! You must be joking! If your dogs are hardly walked then they WILL be bored stiff!! C'mon. Read a few books, google a few sites to learn about dog behaviour. How you can think walking your dogs is pampering them I don't know. You say your dogs "eager eye" you (whatever that means) but I presume they stare, perhaps follow you around etc. THEY WANT TO BE TAKEN FOR A WALK!!!!!! DOGS NEED EXERCISE!!!!!
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edelg
15 yrs ago
Mychallo,
You make a good point that those who abandon dogs should be prosecuted.
I do think HKDR try their very best to send dogs to suitable homes, hence the hesitation about not homing dogs with owners who work in the day, i.e most people.
I am a dog owner and in that situation of working during the day and I adopted another dog ayear ago and so far so good.
However, even with two dogs,( may I add pugs who silly people always lazily say don't need much exercise)I walk them every day,rain or shine and come home at lunch every day to walk them around the block and let them urinate outside.
My days off we will try to go to Tai Tam park or somewhere similar at least once a month with the dogs for at least 3 hours hiking, and they love it. (this is on top of the hour they walk every night).
I think you have seriousmisconception that dogs don't need to be walked everyday and with all reason and logic cannot fathom where this idea came from.
'I have 2 Shih-Tzu and I do NOT walk them everyday .......... I work at home and am with them everyday and I DELIBERATELY do not want my dogs to be pampered. This is my deliberate training.' This is not training. Walking is not pampering. Not walking is a sad neglect of what your dogs need to keep them fit.
'Yes .... dogs (especially males ones) will chew and bite to get attention ' not so, I have two female dogs (who love to chew for fun) and have owned both male and female my whole life, sure dogs will chew out of boredom sometines, but remember dogs once were wild animals who had to hunt for food, so chewing especially is natural for them,(as if they were chewing up what they had hunted in the wild) and is not always a sign of boredom but something a lot of dogs love to do for a whole variety of reasons.
'Every evening of day, the dogs will second guess or eager-eye me to take them out, but I explain to them "No".' - your dogs do not Speak! They NEED EXERCISE EVERYDAY, appreciate they have company which is great.But essentially being inside all day for a dog, if too frequently, is like imprisonment. Imagine if you were inside all day every day, cabin fever would soon set in. Well exercised dogs are ultimately happier and healthier, just like their owners. Please don't try to convince anyone that dogs don't need walks everyday, even my last 15 year old Westie enjoyed his constitutional! Do the right thing, get outside and break a sweat with your two dogs!
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Mychallo, just try once walking your dog out and you will see how exciting they are, how happy they are and as the owner you will share that joy because when the dogs are happy, you feel happy too.
I am no expert in dog caring, I take care of my dog the way I thought they will enjoy. Since I have a full time job, the responsibility of walking my pug in the morning and in the afternoon falls on my children, in the evening, I very much look forward to enjoy my walk with my puggie, and we will sit at the park for some rest after the long walk, we talk and play.... I tell you, the feeling is really great, it takes off the stress from work... also after the stroll in the evening, it makes the dog sleep soundly at night...
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My husband and a couple of friends were out hiking on the trial near Clear Water Bay Equestrian Center yesterday afternoon when they came upon a fire crew carrying down two dead golden retrievers. Since neither my husband or our friends speak Cantonese, they weren't able to find out what had happened to the dogs. We are both curious and mortified as to how these two beautiful dogs came to be left for dead at the top of this trail. If anyone knows more information about the fate of these two dogs, please enlighten us with the what's and why's.
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momi
15 yrs ago
A couple and those two dogs were hiking there and apparently the dogs died of heat stroke. those poor dogs were walking around in their thick fur when it was 32 degrees and very humid.
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Devon
15 yrs ago
They should be charged with animal cruelty!
A dog's thermoregulation is only effective up to a few degrees above normal body temperature. In very hot conditions (and having a thick coat) panting, increased heart rate and increased metabolic rate actually create heat elevating the body temperature faster and faster often with fatal consequences. Their poor brains would have been fried!
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According to the local news, the owner did not even bring water for the dogs, when the dogs collapsed, he asked water around from passers-by. (don't know if the news is reliable). Really, I do not understand what are these people thinking... and before the heat stroke, these dogs have several times hide under the shade and panting, I have a question though - if people are in need of emergency medical attention, we call 999, what if it is a dog, can we call 999 or send for an ambulance???
Poor dogs, why on earth walk in the middle of a hot day???!!!
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Leese
15 yrs ago
Hi all,
Bougainville I would like to say very well said. I do agree with these points you made.
Habibihabibi, I was also very sad about what happened however I don't think we can make stipulations or point blame to any particular culture. Nations all around the world have the capability of owning a dog & I think each person whatever nationality who chooses a dog or any animal for that matter as a pet should all be capable of gaining the same amount of knowledge required to be a good pet owner. I do not think that being a westerner provides any other extra benefits. You do not have to fall in to the category of being well educated to know how to care for an animal. Just some common nous & understanding that we all possess in any class. When it comes to owning a pet here, the information locals can gain from the HK websites or thus provided by the various establishments to assist in owning pets are I'm sure in bi-lingual language so I therefore believe that pets brought up with Hong Kong families or Expat families all have the equivalent upbringing opportunities.
I wish you the best of luck in the future of becoming a pet owner again or otherwise making donations.
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