problems with employer

Posted by cara (163 days ago)

ok... here's one for you...
1) helper is new to hk
2) working for Chinese family (better make sure i capitalise it, huh?)
3) no food allowance (this is ok, ours doesn't get one either....)BUT... what is the helper supposed to eat EVERY DAY for b'fast AND lunch? porridge...no fruit or nuts or raisins or anything. only allowed to cook with a little salt
4) employer is a new mother trying to BF and is having a few problems...helper is made to massage employers breasts 3X per day (and her back while she's at it!)... just found out that employer is now waking her up at 3am just so that she can have her breasts massaged!
5) helper takes care of both kids, even at night
6) 9pm curfew (this for a woman who left a 3 year old in PH to come her so she could provide for him)
7) small house. mother wants to make sure helper gets up in the night to care for children. to accomplish this, helper was made to sleep in the same room as the PARENTS for 3 months, until i suggested that she ask to sleep on the sofa instead. (she was even made to sleep in the same room as the father(alone) a few nights when the mother chose to sleep with the kids!)
8)paid minimum wage
9)she feels like she is going hungry most of the time.
10) when we have given her food on her day off to take home for lunch the next day... the MOTHER eats it and the helper gets.... PORRIDGE!

this is a true story! the girl still owes $ to the agency in the PH so doesn't feel like she can quit. i see her quite often as she is friends with my helper. she is ALWAYS smiling and seems happy. BUT she often calls my helper near to tears when her employer goes out.

if i could, i would hire her in a heartbeat. we just can't afford it right now.

does anyone have any suggestions?

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Posted by mrsl (162 days ago)

Honestly, I thought I was beyond being shocked by helper issues, but (4) & (7)????? PLEASE tell me that she's exaggerating? And porridge?, seriously?; why on earth is that?

All I can suggest is finding a new employer by word of mouth, as the employers do not sound as if they would open to discussing her living and working conditions. As far as I know though, she will still have to go back to the Phils for 6 weeks or so, perhaps she cannot afford that. I wonder if she contacted immigration could they advise on her options as her responsibilities and conditions are absolutely NOT as outlined on the green contract. The Philippine consulate also offers advise, I believe. What about the helpers' radio stations and charities? There must be someone that can help but suspect that there is no overnight solution.

Just did a search on this forum and found a similar thread:
http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/forums/hong-kong-domestic-help/threads/91242/horrible-employer!/

One person posted the following:
'The number for St John's Cathedral help centre is 2523 4020, ISS in WanChai is 28346863. You can also ask fellow DH for these or other contacts, you can ask at your church/mosque, look on the web (you have access so look up Labour Dept, DH help centres etc), call your consulate, get details from the DH newspapers in HK, listen to Metro radio AM104.4 (various DH orientated programmes in thier own language), go down Immigration Dept & ask for help etc.'

These numbers might be worth calling ASAP.

Posted by axptguy38 (162 days ago)

This is way beyond just the yelling and such which you hear about.

Would the police do anything? She does have legal rights. I know that it's her word against theirs and that the legal position of helpers is weak. But this case seems so blatant.

Then again, if she does speak out lots of potential employers would not touch her with a ten foot pole.

Posted by cara (162 days ago)

That's the dilemma. the sleeping arrangements went on from about Oct/nov until after christmas (if memory serves me correctly). we told her that it was illegal and that she was putting herself at risk. i also couldn't believe that the employers would put themselves at risk, too. finally, she worked up the courage to tell them that she wanted to sleep elsewhere. so, from my understanding she now sleeps in the living room with the baby.

it would have all come down to her word against theirs. and as you said, she was worried about the $ she owed in PH as well as not being able to find another job.

as for the cooking...and porridge...the employer is big on "healthy" food and is convinced that porridge is healthy (which i begrudingly admit it is... i can't stand the stuff myself). she has told me that when she has tried to cook other food, the employer tells her it isn't healthy and not to make it again. as i said, she's come to visit quite often on her days off. we have told her that she is welcome to spend the night (especially if there are holidays in a row). she has always very politely said, thank you, but i'm not allowed. i have to take care of the baby at night. (so, she isn't getting her 24 hrs either).

knowing this woman, i don't think that she is exaggerating at all...my helper has met the other employer (she came with helper and children to play with my children~ i was working so didn't get to meet her~ she wanted to see how big our house was, after her helper told her). now, i think that she might be a little envious of our helper's room etc, but that would only be because she has no room of her own....

anyway....
keep the ideas coming, folks!
i really wish i could hire her...but alas, just can't do it right now.

Posted by FKKC (162 days ago)

Yes, life is really hard on some DH. Luckily, the FDH community have a strong support group. The Indonesia helpers have some of their rights abuse from their employers with the "help" of the mean agencies and even their own Consulate. Don't know much about the Thais.

Let's ponder and reflect on this - those poor dear ladies leaving their respective countries coming to HK to work for us away from their own families. I am not the best of employer but I will try to be BETTER!

Cara, thanks for starting this thread to stir up some compassionate feelings in us as employers.

Posted by kittycat2 (161 days ago)

Shocking. Porridge? Breasts? Curfew? Sorry, no ideas.

Posted by jushayward (160 days ago)

Sorry love, but to be honest, don't just sit there-do something!- complain about it. From what I can see, some pretty good advice has been given so far.

Posted by hkwatcher (160 days ago)

Get this girl to check out her contract. Her living arrangements are on the last page, if it is stated that she sleeps with the children and they require her to sleep with them, then that is a breech in the terms of her contract and she has a case against them and can quit. Usually HKIMD will NOT grant a DH a working visa if the DH would share a room with other adults or teenagers, only the very elderly or small children. IMD would contact the employer and talk to them about it. They notice these things during the application process. As far as I can tell, this is her best legal way to get out of the contract and still remain fairly eligible for re hiring. Most employers would consider these claims a bit too "fantastic", but a paper from IMD stating a breach of contract would smooth her road toward re-hiring.

Posted by cara (160 days ago)

thanks, the living arrangement has been somewhat sorted. after weeks of my telling her that she has to do something about it, she finally said something after christmas. from about CNY she has been sleeping in the living room with the baby and the toddler has her own room....

i've already contacted immig but am awaiting their reply as to what we can do for her. she doesn't want to go home, she wants to work. the problem is that it will come down to her word against theirs...

i think that she is a VERY hard worker and she is FANTASTIC with kids. she often comes to our place on her day off to visit my helper (who has her own room~proper size~ with a tv and dvd player) my kids LOVE her! she was here yesterday and again this morning my older one went looking for her and was very upset when she wasn't here. she gets down on the floor and plays with him (my helper does too).

Posted by adele78 (158 days ago)

cara, can you be a witness for her and make a formal statement to the authorities? What they are doing is illegal and just plain unfair. My heart breaks for the poor woman reading what she goes through. It's so sad that some employers know that they hold all the cards and can hold their DH hostage....so upsetting.

I'm the kind of person who wants to bring home all the sad puppies and kittens in the world so they can have a good home and I'm starting to feel the same way about some of these DH's I'm reading about....if I had a million dollars!

Can you network for her and see if any of your friends can employ her/refer her on? She deserves better and she should be made aware of that.

Posted by cara (158 days ago)

my problem with witnessing for her is that again, i only have her word to go on. i haven't been to her "home" and seen first hand what it is like. likewise, i've never seen her massaging the employer....

ps> i'm the same way with puppies/kittens myself!

Posted by FKKC (158 days ago)

Frankly, I couldn't get over point 4 - the massaging of the breasts and point 7 - sleeping alone in the same room with the father. No women in their right mind would have allowed their husbands to sleep with another woman in the same room unattended. Very weird.

I totalling believe that some helpers sleeping in the living room is quite common as space is limited in many local smaller flats. (Don't know if it's legal or not)! But the 2 points I mentioned are quite hard to believe. Got to be kidding!!! And if they are true, something is definitely wrong in that household.

Posted by cara (158 days ago)

yep, they are true... that's why she phones my helper in tears!

the massaging the breasts is to help express the milk... why she can't do it herself or ask her hubby to do it, i don't know.

the sleeping situation has been resolved, as i said, she's now sleeping in the living room.

personally, i also have a hard time with the food thing. how can she be expected to put in the hours that she is when eating porridge for 2 meals per day?

also, have a problem with making her work in the morning on her "day off" and then return home by 9pm.... what kind of day off is that?

Posted by miming (158 days ago)

massaging her breast?????? dont she have her own hand to do it or too lazy to do it???how shameful. Sleeping arrangement in the living room??? Something wrong in thier mind.

Posted by maxis (158 days ago)

Sadly her situation is neither unique nor a particularly bad example comparatively.

Agreed, most of it is rotten and mean, but point 4 and 7 are inexcusable.

How the woman (who presumably is not an amputee) could even have the midset to even contemplate having someone else do the massaging, let alone demand it at will is unbelievable. So is she so busy she doesn't have time to do it herself? So what does she do during the massage - read a book or have a cigarette?

Posted by adele78 (157 days ago)

I'm a pretty body-comfortable kinda gal and I wasn't at all fussed when the lactation consultant at the hossie where I gave birth was 'hands on' in helping us out....but I could not imagine in a pink fit that I'd contemplate having another person do that....nor do it to another person.....the woman should try heat-packs if she has a flow problem or drink raspberry leaf tea...but I digress....

What this all comes down to is that at a point during the time she has worked there, her sleeping arrangements have been illegal, she is belittled/emotionally abused and she is not given the minimum rest period on her day off so on those grounds, she would be in her right to terminate the contract herself as soon as she can.


-poor kitten.

Posted by RachRobin (157 days ago)

Cara,

I know you mentioned the sleeping arrangement has been 'resolved', so now this poor woman can sleep in the living room. I agree this is a better situation than sleeping in the kids or PARENTS room, but it is still unacceptable!!
Surely it is still illegal for a helper not to have their own sleeping quarters? So she has absolutely no privacy and can only sleep when the rest of the family has gone to bed. What about during time off?

Please keep plugging away here and hopefully find this woman a resonable employer (and life!).

Posted by cara (157 days ago)

i emailed immigration last sunday night... still haven't had a reply...

a very kind soul wants to meet her and possibly offer her a job. but it will all come down to how/if she can get out of her current contract without being penalised.

we'll see.

Posted by Snow Rose (155 days ago)

I feel very sorry for the DH concerned - no one should be subject to such treatment. But however, I think we need to remember a few things here :

1. We have not heard the employer's side of the story. There are 2 sides to every coin. If we could hear the employer's side, we might see things very differently. The DH may have only told part of the story, or some of it may be untrue (I hope this is the case! How terrible if #4 & #7 are for real!!).

2. Just because the DH is a victim, does not mean she will be a fab helper. We know nothing about her cooking ability, housework standard etc. We only know that seems to be good with kids.

3. And just because the DH is a victim does not mean she is an INNOCENT victim. For all we know, she may be doing stuff we could never condone, and may have been acting up before the employers were treating her bad. That doesn't mean it's OK for them to work her so hard on 2 bowls of porridge a day, but in such a case we might feel a bit differently.

Posted by cara (154 days ago)

thank you all, especially the person in Ma Wan for your kindnesses.

late Friday night, the helper in question received a call from her sister in canada who knew of the situation. the sister has helped find a job for the helper in canada that doesn't start until July. but at least she will be out of the terrible situation she currently finds herself in.

we will miss her smile and kindness. so will my children.