Lies

Posted by south side (130 days ago)

I could use some advice.

We have a helper. She has worked for us for over 18 months. She was truly amazing when she started but has gone downhill since then. We expected that to some extent as no human being could keep up the pace that she initially set.

The problem is that she constantly lies to us - or moreover, to my wife. It is mostly little things, but it has led to a total lack of trust. She will never admit to forgetting to buy something in the supermarket, she will say that they have run out, but when my wife goes down it's right there; that something was not in the washing basket but turns out that she's just not gotten around to ironing it yet; that she is staying somewhere on a Sat/Sun and it emerges that she stayed somewhere else etc. etc. The thing is that none of these things matter to us, we do not expect someone to be perfect, we forget things too. We have never yelled at her so she has no reason to be nervous.

We have given repeated warnings that the only 2 things that matter to us are the children and that we can trust her (very much linked). We have been explicit that the next lie will result in her termination. We now do not ever leave her with the children because we cannot trust her, some of the lies referred to them. As a result we never go out without the children unless we have a family or trustworthy friends staying.

It gets worse because my wife (and therefore our 3 children) stay out of the house to avoid her now. They only come back when our helper is out with along list of tasks that will keep her out of their way.

I am of the view that we need to get rid of her. My wife has this Western guilt thing that she has less than 6 months to run on her contract so we should grin and bear her for the remainder of her contract or she may struggle to find another job, especially once we are asked for a reference. To be fair to our helper, we have never actually given her a written warning, but she's a bright girl and knows what we have meant each time that we've given her a verbal one.

Constructive suggestions/solutions would be greatly appreciated.

Find what you are after in our Hong Kong A-Z Directory

Posted by omaharrison (130 days ago)

Trust is very important, actually it's crucial when you bring someone to your house to take care of your kids and as you describe your situation, she has become a certain type of burden?
I don't think it will be easier for her or anyone else to find a job if you waited for the full term to finish. If you feel that bad maybe give her a certain payment? so you or your wife will feel as if you compensated her?
Would you still employ someone in your company if you saw that you lost all trust in that person and you can't give that person any more work to do or projects to work on, only because you think that person will have difficulty in finding another job?
It's tough but I believe it has to be done. One month maybe but to wait another 6 months?
And about the reference letter? when you employ the next DH and she will provide one, how would you look at that letter?

Posted by Blatant (130 days ago)

seriously, the heper is in YOUR home to make YOUR life easier. When it gets to the stage that you do not want to have your family in the house with her the choice is easy. She must go. 2 weeks after she has gone you will see it was the right decision.

If I lie to my boss at work I will be out on my ear in a jiffy. "Western Guilt" should not come into it.

Posted by coquinne (130 days ago)

according to what you have written, it seems that her mind is preoccupied w/ something else. If she's been staying out during week-ends nights w/out informing its very clear that whatever she's up to outside comes first at the time being. That explains the chain of little lies and forgetfullness and sorry verbal warnings will not improve the current situation. I once have had a lady who has a high recommendation from previous employers turned out to be more a burden to me than a help. I had to endure 2 months waiting if she's going to be better worker but she was more like having a holiday at my own expense, thankfully we live in a country where contracts for a househelp is not needed. We told her to find new employment regardless to her pleas to let her stay because she needs the job to send money blah blah blah. As a former helper I feel for her but I have to made my choice, to find another one who can work effeciently and knows her way around the house. In your case though u still have 6 months in the contract to go, letting her now will save you and ur family stressfree six months.

Posted by south side (130 days ago)

Thank you all. You have pretty much confirmed what I've been saying/feeling but I just wanted to be sure that I had not become a heartless git.

In actual fact, I have just looked at her contract and relaised that she only has 4 months to run. I had forgotten that we sent her home to the Philippines the day that her contract started as my wife & children were in England for the summer and I was travelling. She had 2 months' paid leave there before she really started working for us, so her contract expires in July. It still is a lot of time to tolerate the current situation.

To be fair to her, I was probably not clear in my OP. She does not stay out without telling us - she just lie about where. She only gets caught out by letting things slip in conversation. We only care so that we know where to start looking if she ever fails to materilise on a Monday morning in case we need to contact the police.

I guess the writing is on the wall. We need someone to help, not a person who is driving us out of our own home. Thanks again.

Posted by Klaus93 (130 days ago)

Actually it is not your business "WHERE" she stay on her day off. Do your boss asking you what you do on your weekends?

Posted by Hayzee (130 days ago)

I totally understand your situation south side, we just went through a similar thing with our Helper. We ended up terminating her because of the constant 'little' lies. It was one lie after another, and another to cover up another lie, and sometimes it involved our very young children, so we just couldn't trust anything she said or did anymore. We gave ours verbal warnings too, but she continued to be dishonest and she ended up losing her job without a reference.

Posted by south side (130 days ago)

Klaus93, please don't jump to conclusions; I don't care where she stays, just care that she lies about it. She prompted the 'telling us where she would be thing' herself when a body was found in a suitcase near our home. She mentioned to my wife that we would not know who to call if she did not show up on a Monday morning and gave us a series of phone numbers of her friends in HK (and her husband in the Phils for the worst case scenario). So she was the one who one who started telling us her whereabouts. The point that concerns us - she seems to be lying for the sake of it, and we struggle to take the things that she says that actually matter to us at face value anymore.

Posted by Dora the Explorer (130 days ago)

Southside, I have to agree with the other posters (apart from Klaus). It sounds as if you have been more than fair and this problem seems to be getting to everyone.

About her future job prospects, it really makes no difference whether she goes now or in 4 months' time. Either way, most employers will ask for a reference and your feedback will not be any different.

I think her idea of telling you where she is when she stays out overnight is sensible though. Contrary to what Klaus says, I think that you are responsible for her and should know where to start looking if she ever went missing.

Posted by coquinne (130 days ago)

Like what Klaus said, it's not the employers business how helpers spend their day-offs or where they go ( that's what I believe during my time, I was lucky nothing bad happenned to me ) the truth is anything can happen once they are out especially at night. With our present nanny I get so worried if she stays out late at night, and its nothing to do w/ not trusting her, its about being responsible for her safety, its about the responsibilities if anything happens to her outside etc etc. In some cases, some helpers its easier to tell a lie rather than explaining ( that is if the english vocabulary is not so wide ) or don't have much confidence in reasoning.

Posted by coquinne (130 days ago)

Like what Klaus said, it's not the employers business how helpers spend their day-offs or where they go ( that's what I believe during my time, I was lucky nothing bad happenned to me ) the truth is anything can happen once they are out especially at night. With our present nanny I get so worried if she stays out late at night, and its nothing to do w/ not trusting her, its about being responsible for her safety, its about the responsibilities if anything happens to her outside etc etc. In some cases, some helpers its easier to tell a lie rather than explaining ( that is if the english vocabulary is not so wide ) or don't have much confidence in reasoning.

Posted by mum of 2 (130 days ago)

I think this thread is in danger of going off on a tangent. From what was posted, the helper's whereabouts on a Sat or Sun night are not important, the poster just used it as an example of the type of lie that she tells. What's more, the initiative to report her whereabouts was taken by the helper herself. The key issue is that the trust is gone, it does not sound as if you'll get it back. This is especially true as the DH in question seems to be volunteering information that is neither important to her employer nor true. It sounds like she's playing a game with you and testing you to see how far she can push it. I'm assuming that she's good at her day to day work if you've been putting up with this issue, but the lies are obviously a deal breaker for you if they are irritating you to the point of keeping clear of your helper.