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Sunday, 11/23/2014

Domestic Helper playing games

POSTED BY OK (7 yrs ago)
My DH who has been with us for 6 years, will be finishing her contract in 6 weeks time.


Now that she found a new employer, she is causing havoc in the house, by letting my son run naked in the house, feeding him junk food at meals time, burning the dinner, the list goes on.


We tried talking to her and ask her what she wanted, whether she wants to leave early,but she refuses to reply or say anything.

My guess is she is hoping that I will fire her, so that she gets an extra months pay on top off all the other long services payment.


Paying her the long services payment is fine, but causing havoc, hoping that I will fire her is another.


As employer is there anything we can do to protect ourself? Or we just have to put up with this type of abuse?
#1 POSTED BY powerpuffgirl (7 yrs ago)
Mine is working out her notice at the moment and is doing the same kind of thing. She has a new employer too whom I have spoken to a few times. I told my helper that if she didn't continue to work in a satisfactory manner I would have no choice but to inform her new employer. Things picked up after that.
#2 POSTED BY Moppet (7 yrs ago)
she'd be out the door for gross misconduct i'm afraid if she worked for me I'd stand over her while she packed and send her on her way then i would notify immigration and find out what i need to do to cover myself.
#3 POSTED BY disco babe (7 yrs ago)
I wouldn't tolerate it...... can you trust her around around child?

I'd call Immigration and get rid of her!
#4 POSTED BY buzz74 (7 yrs ago)
http://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/faq/cap57d_whole.htm


http://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/faq/cap57l_whole.htm


try to read here.
#5 POSTED BY OK (7 yrs ago)
Thank all.

I fired her. I just couldn't trust her anymore. With me having to travel for work, it was not worth the risk.

But I am sadden that after 6 years that it has to turn to this.
#6 POSTED BY ms1 (7 yrs ago)
you did the right thing. we just went through the same thing and it just brought tears to my eyes. I thought there was some sort of relationship there with someone staying in your house for 6 years but i realised... treat them as your employee and nothing more. Expectations should be kept at a minimum for your own sanity and don't be surprised if after they leave you find lots of things gone and people telling you stuff that she said about you. it was allvery hurtful.
#7 POSTED BY nativefil (7 yrs ago)
oh i heard i lot of these, most of them wants to go because they want the long service payment, and they can only get that when you fire her, thats why they will do many things to make you angry. thats why now employers dont want to keep helpers for more than 2 contracts/
#8 POSTED BY cd (6 yrs ago)
They don't only get the long service pay after being fired, they get it after completing their 3 contract or more.
#9 POSTED BY kara23 (6 yrs ago)
cd, does this mean that if the DH is fired before the end of their 3rd contract, they don't get the long service pay?

it is the same case with my DH who has been with me for almost 6 yrs. for the past six months or so, she has become very negligent with housework, always ignoring me and just being careless/forgetful (dunno if on purpose or not). the only reason she is still around is she is good with my kids. but i have recently gone back to work so i need to make a decision asap. don't u just hate it when they reply "i don't know" or "oh, really?" when u confront them with a mistake they have made?
#10 POSTED BY nativefil (6 yrs ago)
they are eligible of the long service as long as the 3rd contract is on effect, as long as you signed the 3rd contract and started working, if you fire her you have to pay the long service.
#11 POSTED BY Momoftwo (6 yrs ago)
Yes, the day the 3rd contract is in effect, your DH is entitled to the Long Service payment. That's why MANY employers don't renew after the 2nd contract.


I know an employer signed with her Dh for the 3rd contract, she quit in 1 month into the 3rd contract, the employer had to give the Long Service payment because they signed the 3rd one.


I was quite worried when I signed the third contract with ours... fortunately, everything is ok.
#12 POSTED BY ldsllvn (6 yrs ago)
when do you actually have to pay it - as soon as 3rd contract signed or at the end of it?
#13 POSTED BY ovi (6 yrs ago)
OK,

Long Service Payment (LSP)


You have to have your helper LSP if she works for you for a minimum 5 years and you no longer required her serivice or if she reaches 65 years of age.

Therefore if you continue to hire her, your obligation to pay LSP is not exist.


If she resigned, then you do not have to pay LSP.


Some FDH may create problems so that you terminated her contract and thus have to pay her LSP. What you need to do to give her written notice. You can only summarily dismiss someone for serious misconduct only or because she failed to improve after several warnings. So not only one.


Hope this is help.
#14 POSTED BY cc77 (6 yrs ago)
That's very true ovi, And as far as I know, You have to pay your helper LSP if, you terminated the 3rd contract then hired another one for her replacement.
#15 POSTED BY winter2 (6 yrs ago)
aren't there any protection for employers??
#16 POSTED BY Peggie Wong (6 yrs ago)
I will be signing up my helper for the 3rd contract soon.........after reading what is happening on this thread, guess I need to be careful. On the other hand, judging from my relationship with my helper, there shouldn't be any reason for her to play this kind of game with me. I asked a few of my friends who had been paying LSP to their helpers for years already and there hadn't been any problem.
#17 POSTED BY cd (6 yrs ago)
To Peggie Wong, why would your friends have been paying long service pay to their helpers for years. LSP is a one off payment that you pay your helper when she/he leaves as long as they have work for minimum of 5 years for you. It is not an ongoing payment, and its 2/3 a months salary times number of years worked.
#18 POSTED BY Peggie Wong (6 yrs ago)
Let me give you 2 examples: (real & true facts)


1. Friend A had her DH for over 19 years - on her 8th year, her helper wanted her to advance LSP and after working another 10 years, another advance payment totalling over the sum of HK$40,000. This is based on mutual agreement and my friend asked her helper to sign on these 2 occasions. The DH is still working for my friend A.


2. Friend B had hers for over 17 years and this helper wanted the employer to save all her entitled LSP until she stop working for her in the ??? future and the LSP will be calculate at the 2/3 monthly salary based on the time she leave her service which will be much higher so in another word, if the helper is not in need of money, it's better to take it at the last year of her service.
#19 POSTED BY Momoftwo (6 yrs ago)
Is it true ? If the helper RESIGNS, I don't have to pay LSP ?

I thought no matter what, the helper gets LSP either I terminate her, or she terminates the contract. She gets LSP if she worked over 5 years.


#20 POSTED BY Grape (6 yrs ago)
Read this... especially on Chapter 8.1, 8.2, 8.3


http://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/public/wcp/FDHguide.pdf


If FDH resigns, you need to pay LSP if it is because of Health issue, or over 65 years old, or died. (Chap 8.1 and 8.2 conditions are clear).


Also, it protects the employers against Gross Misconduct, because LSP is only payable for dismissal "other than gross misconduct" or Reduncy (but you still have to pay Severance Payment for redundancy, but not misconduct).


So, if she plays punk, you need to follow the procedure (also listed in the document) to give warning letters (preferably with witnesses) with ample times and period, then fire her.


So, I am surprised that Peggie Wong allows her FDH to "advance" on her LSP !

She could resigned later, and there is no need to pay, unless she is already 65 !


#21 POSTED BY Peggie Wong (6 yrs ago)
Please read carefully.......not I but my friend 'A'. Her helper is still with her and I know her helper very well and it is the fact!
#22 POSTED BY Peggie Wong (6 yrs ago)
I called my friend 'A' up just now and she claimed there's no way one can wriggle out of paying the LSP if both parties are sincere. Dirty games on both sides can be played to out-smart each other making the relationship between employer and employee feel shallow.

Actually I am quite confused with all these contradictions regarding Severance and Long Service Payments myself when reading all the different replies given. My DH will be entering her 3rd contract with us soon so I guess I will deal with her with my conscience instead of all those grey shadows between the black & white!!!
#23 POSTED BY Miggy (6 yrs ago)
I just called the HK Immigrations because my helper has just resigned (has worked for me for 4 years and 9 months) and I wanted to know if I am required by law to pay her the LSP. The officer said that I am not required to pay her LSP because she resigned. Actually, since she has not reached the minimum 5 years of service I am not required to pay her LSP. Moreso since she resigned. The officer said that it is incorrect to say that as soon as she signs her 3rd contract then she is entitled to the LSP. She has to complete the 1st year of her 3rd contract before she is entitled to the LSP (min. 5 years = 1st year of 3rd contract).
#24 POSTED BY bdbest (6 yrs ago)
The key word is no stereotyping, no judgemental attitude, each DH is different from the other and each employer is diffrent from the other as well... Way to go Peggy and ur friends A & B!!!
#25 POSTED BY FKKC (6 yrs ago)
Miggy

So in another word, any DH that resigns gets no severance payment nor the long service payment that is entitled to her unless the employer does the terminating.


Quite weird!!!


Quote from PW's Friend A: Out-smart each other

So as the story goes, DH deliberately tries to work badly so that her employer is not satisfied with her and fires her and she gets her entitlement or on the other hand around, the employer makes life miserable for the DH thus forcing her DH to resign and gets off from paying the entitlement.......


Shouldn't there be a better solution?way?
#26 POSTED BY activista (6 yrs ago)
Qoute on OK: We tried talking to her and ask her what she wanted, whether she wants to leave early,but she refuses to reply or say anything.


In my opinion....


Maybe your FDH is not happy working with you anymore. That is why you didn't get an answer when you asked her what she wanted. Silence means yes.


Or maybe she have financial problems and wanted to get fired hoping to get her LSP........(TOO BAD)......This FDH, should have confided to her employer what she needed. OR maybe she really didn't have the confidence with her relationship to her employer, that is why they ended up like this.


Or maybe this FDH gets bored in your home and wanted to get out and find a new employer.


Or maybe she is being abusive because she thinks you wouldn't find a new helper to replace her. Bec. maybe she has misconceptions that you are too BUSY to get a new D.H.



In my opinion with OK...

It depends on how did you deliver your question to your FDH. Maybe you did not use the right tone when you asked her what she wanted. Maybe because, you are already scolding her for the havoc she had made.



The thing is. It really depends on both sides.( EMPLOYER-fdh).

You are having problems because maybe both parties didn't get each others CONFIDENCE!


(What you sow is what you reap)

If employer is agreeable, you get agreeable FDH. and vise versa

If employer is INHUMAN-FDH is inhuman. and vice versa



I REALLY DON'T KNOW! Just an opinion.


BUT one thing is TRUE! Peggy Wong's friends A & B are a good example of CONFIDENCE in an employer-employee relationship.

And employers are generally the ones who could make things better!(",)








#27 POSTED BY activista (6 yrs ago)
Qoute on OK: We tried talking to her and ask her what she wanted, whether she wants to leave early,but she refuses to reply or say anything.


In my opinion....


Maybe your FDH is not happy working with you anymore. That is why you didn't get an answer when you asked her what she wanted. Silence means yes.


Or maybe she have financial problems and wanted to get fired hoping to get her LSP........(TOO BAD)......This FDH, should have confided to her employer what she needed. OR maybe she really didn't have the confidence with her relationship to her employer, that is why they ended up like this.


Or maybe this FDH gets bored in your home and wanted to get out and find a new employer.


Or maybe she is being abusive because she thinks you wouldn't find a new helper to replace her. Bec. maybe she has misconceptions that you are too BUSY to get a new D.H.



In my opinion with OK...

It depends on how did you deliver your question to your FDH. Maybe you did not use the right tone when you asked her what she wanted. Maybe because, you are already scolding her for the havoc she had made.



The thing is. It really depends on both sides.( EMPLOYER-fdh).

You are having problems because maybe both parties didn't get each others CONFIDENCE!


(What you sow is what you reap)

If employer is agreeable, you get agreeable FDH. and vise versa

If employer is INHUMAN-FDH is inhuman. and vice versa



I REALLY DON'T KNOW! Just an opinion.


BUT one thing is TRUE! Peggy Wong's friends A & B are a good example of CONFIDENCE in an employer-employee relationship.

And employers are generally the ones who could make things better!(",)








#28 POSTED BY bub (6 yrs ago)
Hi all,I seriously feel that a DH should not be employed for more than 2yrs.........mine has worked with me for over 3yrs and is disrespectful at times, verrrrrry moody .She has also started going out for a course,every sunday, and she was going to leave me at a time when i needed her most, as i plan to study more......... i have 2 kids to look after.Everyone has a different equation with their helper, mine was very good but they have their advisors who often turn them into devils.......
#29 POSTED BY cc77 (6 yrs ago)
bub,


thats your opinion but i doubted if everybody will agree.As I always say, people are different. Maybe your helper is of other sort. We just hear the other side of the story in this forum most of the times.

BTW, you mentioned that your helper started to attend a course every sundays. Well, sundays are hers. In my simple opinion, there's no problem with that.


" she was going to leave me at a time when i needed her most, as i plan to study more"


If she leaves you during her day offs, obviously no problem at all....but if she leaves during working days, there is.


" mine was very good but they have their advisors who often turn them into devils"


hehe...how can you be so sure that she has advisors that turning her into devil? (or helpers are advised by advisors then turned them into devil???)
#30 POSTED BY Moppet (6 yrs ago)
Bub is your helpers day off Sunday? if so she can do what she wants if not then it is up too you if she can attend a course during working time or not.

#31 POSTED BY aremos (6 yrs ago)
Hi I'm a helper myself and I think you just misinterpret her. Though,we are here in HK for money I don't think your helper will try to do something bad and ruin the good employer-helper relationship you have just for the long service. Working with you for 6 years I cannot understand why you had come out with that idea. I feel bad for your helper.
#32 POSTED BY xmauix (6 yrs ago)
Aremos, maybe the helper's behaviour implies that message to her employer (who knows her well enough). I know no one should judge someone but sometimes, when you see someone change from good to not-so-good-anymore, you'd be worried to especially when they're staying with you and looking after you kids.
#33 POSTED BY mumof2boys (6 yrs ago)
My helper is only ever moody once a month......it's funny to me cause it's so predictable but even then cause I am her friend and I LOVE her and respect her I can sit with her and ask her how she feels and make her a cup of coffee.

I was a nanny once too and it's what my employers did for me.

I'm lucky she is a born again Christian, we share the same views and she loves my kids as her own though so I feel VERY blessed.

If she changes after 3 years or so I will confront her directly and demand a conversation about it from a relational point of view. If she's unhappy in our house she would need to tell me directly and why and I wouldn't be afraid to tell her how much it hurts me to see her changing how she treats us if we have continued to treat her with love and care.

#34 POSTED BY apple79 (6 yrs ago)
ma'am dear, talk to your Dh and tell her that you will give her her long service payment should or should'nt she renew a contract with you so there's no need for her to make a fuss in your household. That will give her an assurance of what she deserves and will realize, hopefully, that what she's doin currently is not good as well..


Im currently serving my boss for our 3rd contract and thinking of going home for good thus I needed extra money in going home. I wish she'll give me my dues hahahihi wish me luck employers and helpers
#35 POSTED BY notyou (6 yrs ago)
my helper's been working less and demanding more every year. i am older and less patient with her laziness! she's been with me close to 4 years. and refuses to follow lists, doesn't remember things i tell her, etc. what would i owe her to get her to leave? do i have to file some papers and give reasons? would it affect my ability to hire another helper? my friend said you can only fire 2 helpers and then you won't be able to hire anohter one. do you know if that istrue?
#36 POSTED BY Asterix99 (4 yrs ago)
I have a bit of a tricky situation:


My DH has been with us for 10 years, and over the last couple of years her standards have really slipped, and she spends all of her time trying to get through the chores so she can disappear to go and 'hang out' with her other DH friends. This is mildly irritating as we feel she is trying to align us with her social life. On top of this i have noticed money missing from my wallet recently. To be sure, I checked my wallet before my shower the other day and when i came back, money was missing. I should have confronted her immediately, but i didn't. Now I know she stole the money and I can't have her in the house any more, but i'm afraid that if i were to fire her for gross misconduct I would risk a labour tribunal, and with no concrete proof she may be entitled to her LSP. I am not prepared to pay this as she has stolen from my family. What should I do?

#37 POSTED BY beancurd (4 yrs ago)
Asterix99, you must have a proof of your accusation because if you fire her for gross misconduct, you are questionable because she stayed with you for 10 years and the labor will think you accuse her because you do not want to pay her long service.


I think before do anything nasty, seek advise from labor department.


#38 POSTED BY Asterix99 (4 yrs ago)
My thoughts too, however I'm sure you can imagine it's not very comfortable knowing that your family is living with, and paying, a theif. I have a strong loyalty to her but stealing is stealing. Any other options?

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