No maid's room

Posted by Yin_Chow (71 days ago)

I am looking at hiring a f/t DH but don't have a maid's room. I have a 3 bedroom apartment, but as I have 3 children, we take up all the rooms. When we first signed up the lease, we had no intentions of getting a DH, hence we didn't rent an apartment with a maid's room. Also at the time I wasn't thinking of returning back to the workforce, but now I want to work f/t and therefore will need a DH to help with the school run and domestic chores. One agent has suggested that (1) I sacrifice one of the kid's room for the DH and have my 3 children sleep together in the same room. As the rooms are small, I am not really fond of this idea. Another suggestion was that (2) I have one of my kids share the room with the DH - definitely out of the question. What should I do in regards to living arrangements? I know that by law I must provide live in accommodation for DHs, unless they are PRs. Also, would it be inappropriate if had I chosen scenario 1, made the room a DH/storage room? Any advice would be great.

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Posted by axptguy38 (71 days ago)

Well, you'll have to give her a room to sleep in. So I guess you're at scenario 1. There really is no other (legal and decent) option. Unless you can build a new wall somewhere.

Posted by annej (71 days ago)

I think there is some rule which allows you to have a live-out DH (you'd have to pay her accommodation costs) when you don't have enough room at home. I would have thought that the fact you only have 3 bedrooms and three kids, with no maid's room - you might qualify for this concession. Best to check it out with Immigration Dept.

Posted by Momoftwo (71 days ago)

a LOT of people are in your shoes, worse in fact. Many people live in 2 bedroom apartment.... you have three!

Storage room into DH's room - MOST often like this.
The other way is bunk bed for one child, the helper sleeps below.
Or fold away bed in the room, day time, folds away, night time folds out.
Illegal option is live out.

Posted by Yin_Chow (70 days ago)

Thank you all for your replies. annej, I will definitely give imm a call and see what they say in regards to the accom...otherwise, I guess option 1 is my best option.

Posted by Momoftwo (70 days ago)

annej and Yin_Chow, there is no LEGAL live out. Not having enough "room" in at home is no excuse to ask the Helper to live out. All live out helpers are illegal.

Posted by Yin_Chow (70 days ago)

momoftwo, thanks for the reminder. had a talk with my better half, we have decided to go with option 1 (have the kids share 1 room) and have the DH have her own room (which will also become part storage - namely the kids' wardrobes). Now just have to decide on the DH and get the paperwork rolling.

Posted by IslandHopper (70 days ago)

From Immigration Dept website

"I. Eligibility Criteria
Employers who wish to employ a domestic helper from abroad (Helper) have to satisfy the following criteria:
a.
the employer is financially capable of employing a Helper. In general, for every Helper to be employed, the employer must have a household income of no less than HK$15,000 per month or asset of comparable amount to support the employment of a Helper for the whole contractual period;
b.
the Helper and the employer shall enter into a standard Employment Contract (ID 407);
c.
the Helper shall only perform domestic duties for the employer as specified in the standard Employment Contract (ID 407);
d.
the Helper shall not take up any employment with any other person during his/her stay in Hong Kong;
e.
the employer will pay the Helper a salary that is no less than the minimum allowable wage as announced by the HKSAR Government. If no food is provided to the Helper, the agreed amount of food allowance should not be less than HK$300 per month;
f.
the Helper shall work and reside in the contractual address1 only ;
g.
the employer shall provide the Helper with suitable accommodation and with reasonable privacy;
h.
the bona fides of the employer and the Helper are not in doubt;
i.
there is no known record to the detriment of the employer and the Helper; and

j.
the employer is a bona fide Hong Kong resident.



1Employers who have obtained the Director of Immigration's approval before 1 April 2003 to let their Helpers live out can continue to do so, so long as they continue to employ Helpers without a break of more than 6 months.

2If the contractual address is a flat in a housing estate run by the Housing Department/Hong Kong Housing Society, a consent letter from the Housing Department/Hong Kong Housing Society granting permission for the Helper to reside in the premises and copies of page 1 to 4 of the tenancy agreement with the Housing Department/Hong Kong Housing Society showing the address and personal particulars of the family members are required. Additional proof to show the relationship is also required if the documentary evidence is not in the employer's name."

So Momoftwo, there still are legal liveouts but not for new employers of FDHs. And not having enough room makes you not eligible to employ a FDH. What is then "enough room" is subject to interpretation, since there's no strict definition.

As the standard employment contract states, examples for unsuitable accommodations are made-do beds in corridors with little privacy or sharing room with an adult or a teenager of the opposite sex.

As the contract also states, most of apartments don't have a maid's room, so that's not a requirement by law.

Posted by Momoftwo (69 days ago)

islandhopper, thanks for the review. However, my point is directed to the OP and annej's reply. That THIS particular scenario is NOT going to get you a "legal" approval to have her helper live out.

2003- is passe. So no point in talking about that. Obviously, in 2008, the OP isn't going to get that approval.

Posted by GreenValleys (68 days ago)

I agree that the info on tje Imm Dept website is pretty clear. However there have been several posts in this forum from people stating that they had received permission from the Dept for a live-out arrangement. Whether you believe them or not is another matter, but there is certainly nothing illegal in asking Immigration for special dispensation. In the end I think it will come down to the strength of your case and how the case officer feels on the day. Good luck!

Posted by Yin_Chow (65 days ago)

Once again thank you all for your opinions. As stated, we are going with the DH having her own room. I have asked my children in regards to the sleeping arrangements and they could not be happier being all in the same room.

Posted by annej (65 days ago)

Yin Chow, I am pleased you have reached a solution which works for you and your family.

Mumoftwo - please checks your facts before making sweeping statements 'All live-out helpers are illegal'. Obviously there are some cases (pre 2003 and special dispensation ) where this IS allowed. This forum is supposed to be for friendly advice - none of us are experts!!

Posted by Momoftwo (64 days ago)

annej, I didn't make any "sweeping statements". Call the immigration yourself, and ask what you said:

"think there is some rule which allows you to have a live-out DH (you'd have to pay her accommodation costs) when you don't have enough room at home. "

And see what they tell you.

LIKE I SAID, prior to 2003...right? So since we are in 2008, I am accurate in informing you that it is ILLEGAL to have live out helpers. Stated very clearly in the immigration's guidelines to hiring DH. I think you should tell yourself the same thing before advising other so false information.

Posted by IslandHopper (64 days ago)

"LIKE I SAID, prior to 2003...right? So since we are in 2008, I am accurate in informing you that it is ILLEGAL to have live out helpers. Stated very clearly in the immigration's guidelines to hiring DH. I think you should tell yourself the same thing before advising other so false information. "

Obviously it' s not stated clearly enough.

It IS LEGAL still to employ live-out FDH today if you have obtained permission to that prior to 2003 and there is no more than 6 month break in employing FDHs since them

"Employers who have obtained the Director of Immigration's approval before 1 April 2003 to let their Helpers live out can continue to do so, so long as they continue to employ Helpers without a break of more than 6 months."

So it is not "ILLEGAL to have live out helpers." but you don't get approval to that as a NEW employer of FDH.

Posted by annej (64 days ago)

Mumoftwo - goodness me ! I am afraid I have far too many things going on in my life to get into an argument with you. As previously stated, this is a forum for friendly advice - not expert information. If you check my original reply, I actually advised the OP to check with Immigration - hardly false advice ! Enough said.

Posted by Momoftwo (64 days ago)

annej, I am not arguing with you, no intention to.
Islandhopper, how is NOT clear? I don't understand. It's ILLEGAL to have live out helpers if you didn't obtain permission prior to 2003.
So, if you read OP's question, it's clear that she hasn't hired a helper. So this helper is "new". Last time I checked my calendar it is 2008, not 2003. (Please don't mix up reading 3 and 8) Maybe that's the confusion.
So , that means immigration isn't going to approve ANY live out helpers anymore, because like I said, the calendar says 2008 now. Clear enough?

Posted by Momoftwo (64 days ago)

BTW, why is islandhopper talking about a scenario that is clearly NOT APPLICABLE to Yin's question?

Posted by IslandHopper (63 days ago)

"BTW, why is islandhopper talking about a scenario that is clearly NOT APPLICABLE to Yin's question?"

Just in order to correct the information (given by you) that "All live out helpers are illegal." when they are not. I have realized that some people take information from this websiteas 100 % fact and I just can imagine someone informing Immigration about their neighbors' "illegal" live-outs after that disinformation - although the arrangement is fully legal

"So , that means immigration isn't going to approve ANY live out helpers anymore, because like I said, the calendar says 2008 now. Clear enough?"

It is clear but NOT in the way you think - they are going approve live out helpers if the EMPLOYER has had this approval prior to 2003 - it's not defined that the employee must be the same person who was employed over 5 years ago.

I think that was clearly stated by saying


"Employers who have obtained the Director of Immigration's approval before 1 April 2003 to let their Helpers live out can continue to do so, so long as they continue to employ Helpers without a break of more than 6 months."

Posted by davidebard6md (63 days ago)

well maybe she cannot be full time with you. let her sleep in another house.

haha Momoftwo always has something to say to whoever disagrees (even slightly) from what she says, its amazing. Entertaining, also :)

Posted by Momoftwo (63 days ago)

no I don't have any problem with people disagreeing with me, that's the point of the forums. However, it just bugs me to death whenever people start "quoting" every word another says, and picks apart their posts to dissect, and plays "word" games with the post, and saying how the poster is wrong because of the "word" one used! (Although the "meaning" of what is being said is obvious and clear.

The whole point of THIS post is lost already. Islandhopper keeps talking about the 2003 past.....when it's totally non applicable to the question.

Posted by IslandHopper (63 days ago)

Momoftwo: I'm talking exactly about TODAY's guidelines, of which you obviously weren't aware of, but it's too hard for you to admit it.

"All live out helpers are illegal." wasn't either an applicable answer to the original question....

Posted by Momoftwo (63 days ago)

WHY would it be hard to admit !?
I am fully aware that there are a bunch of helpers who "live out" under the permission of the immigration that was approved prior to 2003. I knew that.

Ok, I surrender.

I will now edit what I wrote.

"ALL live out helpers are illegal UNLESS you got approval prior 2003."
I have no interest in having essay lessons here. So there. End of input.
It doesn't concern me that there are people in this forum telling others "go ahead, TRY to get permission to get a live out helper." You're just wasting their time. Not mine.

Posted by davidebard6md (63 days ago)

As I said, entertaining. And amazing hahaha.

Posted by cara (63 days ago)

actually, it is only illegal for FOREIGN domestic helpers to live out. any one here on a dependent visa or anyone that is a permanent resident is allowed to take up any employment they want. they are obviously allowed to live-out, too...

Posted by meiji (63 days ago)

well, it's quite obvious the question is about Foreign Domestic Helper, and quite obvious the whole discussion here was about Foreign DH.

Foreign Domestic Helpers are not allowed (legally) to live out, must be the address on the contract. And yes, I am not talking about those who received approval from immigration prior 2003.

I think the original poster gets the point by now.