Posted by
laiging
12 yrs ago
considering buying a village house in south lantau.
seeking advice on parking situation. from what i see in property adverts, most do not mention parking.
Is parking in public spaces ok? will there be arguments amongst villages over parking in govt land (like in some village in sai kung)?
i understand that public transport is not that good, and therefore having a car to get to tung chung and ferry pier is essential. am i right?
Any advice is appreciated.
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190k
12 yrs ago
You will need a car permit as south lantau is a closed road
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Get rid of your car, and be happier with more money in your pocket.
CArs are for losers, and long-term slaves
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thanks for advice. cars do keep losing its value. my husband however is rather attached to it and will not live somewhere such as DB, where he cannot drive.
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TTD
12 yrs ago
I have sent you a msg...you will love lantau too!
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"thanks for advice. cars do keep losing its value. my husband however is rather attached to it and will not live somewhere such as DB, where he cannot drive."
Consider the cost of running one as a "stupid tax". If you are happy to pay it, then keep driving, and don't complain about it.
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I have to agree with OffThePeak - Hong Kong is one of the relatively small number of cities in the world where cars are completely unnecessary - a discretionary luxury. For my part, I have never seen a need to own a car here and the money saved has added a lot to our household balance sheet over the years.
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There are just those who get a high when driving a car. Let them drive, but as mentioned, they've got no "right" to complain as it's a choice they made.
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"the money saved has added a lot to our household balance sheet over the years"
Exactly. As it does anywhere.
Even the Car-addicted yanks are discovering that driving less, or not at all, is a smart move.
I read somewhere that Miles-Driven by those under 30 years old has dropped by 41% in the last 10 years. If so, that is a sea-change.
Car-driving is another addiction, like smoking, that will pay you back plenty, if you can wean your way off it.
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Well, the US could also benefit from drving smaller vehicles - I still laugh at the parking arrangements where cars as big as a BMW 7 series are described as "compacts"
Of course, if they had to pay as much for gas as the Europeans (or many other places), their habits might change
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It's changing now. The youngsters drive less, because they would rather have an iThing than have a car.
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Yeah.
And maybe they are smart enough to look at the cost,
and realise that driving a car is like "paying a stupid tax", which only stupid people (who do not learn how to live without a car) need to pay.
They are opting for the improvements in quality of life, and long term financial solvency, which come from living in a Walkable Community (like HK)
High taxes on cigarettes as another "stupid tax", and maybe we need more of those, and fewer direct taxes on Earned income. HK gets this mostly right, and that's why I call the SAR: "A machine for making money."
Get educated, work smart, avoid the stupid taxes, and you too, can build up some wealth.
The day may come where intelligent women will look at a guy in an expensive sportscar may laugh and say: "Look at the Boob in the expensive car! LOL. What a fool."
The ones who are impressed and want to know him, reveal themselves as gold-diggers.
At my cynical age, that is how I begin to see things. But it does not stop me from embracing life, and enjoying on my own terms, with my eyes wide open.
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"The day may come where intelligent women will look at a guy in an expensive sportscar may laugh and say: "Look at the Boob in the expensive car! LOL. What a fool.""
Ahhhh....the real reason for the increase in the number of second hand luxury cars being put up for sale is revealed - the wives are finally wising up to the reason their husbands purchased them in the first place
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LOL
And there may be an element of truth there too.
If luxury cars are going cheap, it means there's a Bear market in Gold-digging
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My special thanks to TTD for practical advice on carparking situation south lantau. I love south lantau which is a paradise to get away from the crowded city. still green and free from heavy traffic. thanks everyone for the interesting discussion. however it is easier to get rid of a car than a husband, one i dearly love.
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(Another sort of "stupid tax", the price of maintaining a LAWN):
GOD AND LAWN CARE
GOD: Frank, you know all about gardens and nature. What in the world is going
on down there on the planet?...
. . .
GOD: The spring rains and warm weather probably make grass grow really fast.
That must make the Suburbanites happy.
ST. FRANCIS: Apparently not, Lord. As soon as it grows a little, they cut
it-sometimes twice a week.
GOD: They cut it? Do they then bale it like hay?
ST. FRANCIS: Not exactly, Lord. Most of them rake it up and put it in bags.
GOD: They bag it? Why? Is it a cash crop? Do they sell it?
ST. FRANCIS: No, Sir, just the opposite. They pay to throw it away.
GOD: Now, let me get this straight. They fertilize grass so it will grow. And,
when it does grow, they cut it off and pay to throw it away?
ST. FRANCIS: Yes, Sir.
GOD: These Suburbanites must be relieved in the summer when we cut back on the
rain and turn up the heat. That surely slows the growth and saves them a lot of
work.
ST. FRANCIS: You aren't going to believe this, Lord. When the grass stops
growing so fast, they drag out hoses and pay more money to water it, so they can
continue to mow it and pay to get rid of it.
/more: http://nesaranews.blogspot.hk/2012/08/god-and-lawn-care.html
It would be FUNNY.
Except that it involves a great waste of limited resources: water, energy, fertilizers.
In the end, we ALL pay - not just the stupid ones.
Why do we have these wasteful habits?
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Habits are only wasteful when other people do them
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Or until one sees the Error of Ones way.
I used to own a car, and live in the Suburbs.
Then, I saw what an empty and wasteful living arrangement it was.
Had I been a hypocrit, I could have maintained that lifestyle, while I was waking up and criticising it. But I made a different choice.
Many Americans are now waking up. As I read somewhere, and have posted on a thread here already:
Miles-Driven by Americans under 30 years of age has dropped by 41%. That begins to look like a sea-change in attitudes to me. But it is only a start, since too many people still retain wasteful habits and wasteful living arrangements.
Let's DRIVE this point home, to those who havent thought about it much yet. And if they are crazy enough to complain that it is expensive to own a car, or expensive to park, surely we should remind them of the big picture, and what is at stake in the long run for our planet. Do you disagree?
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Good point - people do change (my wife is still working on me). Pity it so often takes so long.
Maybe we should treat car ownership in the same manner as smoking - a vice that imposes a high level of externalities on other people and tax it accordingly. This might be one new behavioural tax that I would actually support (on condition that the extra revenue (if any) went to reducing income taxes generally).
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Car ownership is heavily taxed through licensing fees and/or fuel taxes in most places I know.
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190k
12 yrs ago
Air quality is getting bad in HK so OTP please stop breathing
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Car owners will not like my views - They may find them threatening, and I suppose they are.
As more people shift away from cars, then taxes on automobiles, driving, and gasoline may rise. Only smokers resist rising taxes on cigarettes. And maybe only those who have private cars will resist new taxes on automobiles.
190K, are you a car owner?
If so, I may stop breathing along with everyone else in HK if/when the air quality gets bad enough.
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190k
12 yrs ago
OFT are you a preacherman???
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Laiging,
Yes, its handy to own a car on South Lantau..well at least its one of the places in HK where owning a car is perhaps justifiable.
Regarding parking, as you probably know public spaces do not necessarily mean free parking. Its quite common practice for public/government land to be turned into parking by the "village chief"... and he'll expect rent from you. That said, often (though illegally) they will do some kind of excavation work for this to happen... and thus perhaps not entirely unreasonable that they expect something in return if you choose to use the space they created...
Anyway your decision will be easy... you'll either pay up or get "brick through window" treatment... lol BTW, this is one of the reasons i would never buy a village house.. its a "gray area" where often the LAW is not enforced. Good luck!
OTP... "GOd and Lawn care"...LOL i must say i've wasted much resources to maintain my lawn in the past. Your story really puts into perspective how crazy and wasteful that practice is.
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Cars = Space. If you want to eliminate cars...you need to convince people to live in smaller spaces and live closer to other people. Not an easy task.
Americans aren't addicted to cars per se. Cars are just the symptom of their need for space and privacy. In order to obtain land,privacy and space, one needs a car. Most americans are willing to drive 1/2 hour or even an hour to avoid living like people do in hong kong (small flats), especially americans with a family.
Building public transport is a catch-22. If you provide good public transport, than the area that the public transport serves tends to become more crowded and less desirable. Look at the North District (Fanling/Sheung Shui), it used to be a remote/low density/quiet part of HK, until the east rail line was built. Once the east rail line came in, Sheung Shui and Fanling boomed. You don't need a car to live their anymore...but you also lost your privacy, space and cheap accomidation.
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Do Americans really "need space", or were they brainwashed by TV programs, magazines, and builder advertising to think that huge homes were an appropriate place to live? (Big homes also require big spending on furnishings and other "stuff".)
The result in 2002-2006 was that people were spending more than they could afford on McMansions in the out-ring suburbs. The resulting lifestyle was: toxic for the planet, toxic for the economy, and maybe fatal for the wealth of the homebuyer. In those years, I wrote various articles warning people that this was a poor choice. But the reaction that I trpically received was people telling me that I was wasting my time because: "Americans won't give up their cars."
Now many ARE giving up cars, to live in walkable neighborhoods, where they cam enjoy a better lifestyle, albeit in smaller homes. And American, especially those under 30, are driving much less - And beginning to criticize their parents for have lived a wasteful suburban lifestyle.
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I think their is a happy medium home size somewhere between 'hong kong tiny flat living' and buying rediculously huge McMansions.
While I agree that large homes and cars are bad for the environment, I fail to see how living in smaller homes and not having a car is a "better lifestyle" for the individual. The simple truth is that cars save a lot time and big homes are more enjoyable to live in than small ones. It is tough to ask people to choose against their own interests so to speak.
But anyway, if you are concerned about the global environmental effects of automobiles you best turn your attention towards China. You think americans love their cars? Take a look at China. By 2020 it is predicted that 50% of new car (in the world) will be purchased in China.
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Fact is: Car-owning can be wealth-destroying.
I read somewhere that the average America (car-owner?) spends $8,000-10,000 per annum on his/her car. Ditch the car, and that leaves enough money to buy a decent home in many cities.
I call it the "stupid tax", since $10k per annum might pay down a mortgage, and help to build wealth rather than drain it away, out of America (or Canada or Australia) to some foreign oil producer.
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Owning a car can also be wealth creating. It can save you time and allow you to work more hours or pursue other wealth creating interests.
If time is money, than you need to consider the monetary benefit of car ownership too, not only the cost. For most people, 10k is an acceptable trad off in relation to the time saved. We only have a limited time on this planet, and I would prefer to spend as little time as possible transporting myself around.
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Sure. The usefulness of the car depends entirely on your living arrangement
If 50% of Americans (maybe 150 million) live in the suburbs, and half of them own cars - that would be 75 million cars. Actual car ownership in America is recorded at 240 million cars. If you multiply that by $8,000 per annum, then that's $1,920 Billion per annum - A huge amount of money going down the drain, with much of it flowing out of the country. Maybe half of that, or more, could be eliminated by a different living arrangement. (Consider Europe. They use about 1/3 as much oil per capita, and arguably have a higher living standard than in the US. Ask yourself why. Europe, of course, is more densely populated, and you can get around without automobiles.)
The car-related cash drain explains a good part of the erosion of the American middle class. I insist on talking about it, because I am patriotic, and don't like seeing my country go do the drain.
(The rest of the needless cash drain is: a very expensive medical care system- that benefits mainly doctors and big pharma, the bloated military industrial complex, and the predatory banking sector which makes laws that protect itself.) Remove these cash drains, and the country might quickly get back on its feet.
If you rebuilt the Suburbs as small towns, in walkable communities, connected by buses and rail that would be a great way to start turning around the country.
Wiki-onCarOwnership: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_the_automobile_on_societies
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190k
12 yrs ago
"Sure. The usefulness of the car depends entirely on your living arrangement"
OTP - Exactly, so stop preaching your situation and preferences to others and get back to the original post. If you want a rant then start your own thread
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Yes, let's get back to the original topic - so where do people who live in South Lantau park their buffalos?
I agree with OffThePeak - we should be working out ways to reduce our dependancy on cars. This will not be practical everywhere, but should be easy in cities like Hong Kong.
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"Exactly, so stop preaching your situation and preferences to others"
Merely, I was responding to comments, and trying to provide some useful info,
I suggest YOU do that 190K, to advance the thread, rather than mere throwing mud. Once the original question was answer, there seemed to be an interest in discussing the related issue of car use patterns.
Here's a more relevant question:
Should South Lantau retain its restrictions are car usage?
I certainly think it should, for the reasons that I have given above.
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