overstay

Posted by EliasZizou (331 days ago)

Hey all

New here, thanks in advance for any replies that may float my way.
My expat friend has been married and living in Beijing for 3.5 years. He and his Beijing wife were wed upon their arrival from overseas but they have failed to follow the visa guidlines and basically he is on the same visa with which he arrived.
Could someone please outline the offense, if any, and possible punishment.
Cheers

(I am based in Beijing)

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Posted by John-GZ (330 days ago)

Hi EliasZizou,

I am not entirely sure of the rules but I will give what little info I have. If your friend is on his original visa, that means that it was probably only a 6 month to 1 year visa.

So he has been basically staying here for almost 3 years illegally. And now, unfortunately, is not the time to be caught because of political pressures between China and the US.

But basically, he can be fined up to 5,000 RMB and have any future visa declined (and there have been several expats sent to prison recently for up to a year).

I don't know if he is working or not, but if he is, does he have a work permit? If he does he may have a proper visa. If he doesn't then he and his employer can be in a world of trouble.

In any case, I would strongly suggest that your friend find an attorney he can trust.

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by EliasZizou (330 days ago)

Thanks eternal John-GZ,

I don't think he has a work permit, I understand he was never asked for one. Does the fact that he has been married to a Chinese/Beijing citizen
for all of his time here bar the first couple of months have any influence

Thanks once again

(I am based in Beijing)

Posted by gdbill (330 days ago)

If he has been here illegally without a proper visa for two and a half years then nothing can save him. being married to a Chinese national only helps obtain a longer "L" visa, but does not do anything to get you out of a really foolish situation like living here illegally for 2.5 years.

I see only three options:

1. Continue staying here illegally and hope to never get caught. When it's time for him to leave the country, pay the 5,000 RMB fine and go;

2. Continue here illegally until caught and then not only spend a few weeks in jail, but also pay the fine and get deported with a 5 year bar on reentry; or

3. Turn himself in, pay the 5,000 RMB fine, beg like there's no tomorrow and hope they let him leave of his own free will without being deported. He could probably avoid the few weeks in jail and if he begs well enough they'll let him apply for another visa from Hong Kong.

In any event, he won't be sent to prison because as long as he did not enter or leave China illegally, overstaying a visa is not a criminal offense in China. The longest you can go to jail for without having committed a criminal offense is 21 days.

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by douglaskoh (329 days ago)

Agree with gdbill. Detention for a period up to 21 days is not as bad as going to jail. Yet, it can be a bad experience too. Hence, option 3 is still the recommended option.

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by gdbill (329 days ago)

In minor cases like visa overstays, two things are important when dealing with the PSB: $ to pay fines with and having a good attitude. Even if you have a lot of money, with a bad attitude you're looking to get treated very harshly.

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by douglaskoh (329 days ago)

In minor cases for those staying in Guangdong, try to cross Tianhe or Zhuhai border instead of Shenzhen. The officers at Shenzhen can be very strict. Repeat apology is a good approach. Don't give stupid excuses like my dog is sick. Just say sorry and sorry, Dui Bu Qi in Chinese. To the official, there is no such thing as a good excuse but a good attitude as suggested by gdbill is what they are looking for.

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by gdbill (328 days ago)

^ Totally agree.

In Shanghai a couple of weeks ago the PSB was doing spot checks on unlicensed moped drivers. They caught about 6 foreigners and carted them off to the police station. 5 were contrite and acted so sorry -- like a pupply when it's beaten. They each got a relatively small fine and a stern lecture.

One guy was not so receptive to the lecture and kept saying it wasn't his fault because he didn't know he was required to get a license. When they asked for his passport, he complained. He got a couple of weeks in jail and forced to leave China.

It was in all the newspapers.

Douglas is absolutely right.

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by Lorne457 (324 days ago)

While it is true that you can beg and be very polite, sorry and even admit to stupidity, due to the new directives, any and all visa problems have the same result now.
Pay all fines (the 5000 limit seems to either have been changed or is being ignored... read the blogs up to 150000).
You will then almost certainly be deported for having worked illegally and having been an illegal alien in a UN member country (instant insertion into INTERPOL's database) for the maximum 5 year term.
The new laws introduced this spring and summer are very specific and very strong.
I suggest you Google keywords such as "foreigner+visa+overstay+illegal+deport"

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by gdbill (320 days ago)

Not at all true. Not at all.

The maximum fine is 5,000 RMB, period, for overstaying your visa. Higher fines are allowed only if there is some type of visa or entry/exit fraud involved.

Depending on how fine tuned your suck-up skills are, you may not be deported. In fact, they will not just deport you the old fashioned way. They will tell you to go back home and leave China within a week or maybe even a month. again, it depends on how much you suck-up to them.

That they will place you in an INTERPOL database is laughable. Also, most of the time you leave China and turn around and get a new visa to come back the next day. They generally do not put you on the visa "black list" unless you have done something more serious than just overstaying your visa.

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by seneca (319 days ago)

My two fens' worth: He has overstayed his visa but if he keeps mum, the PSB are not too likely to press charges against him for WORKING illegally; no doubt they will punish him for overstaying his visa, though.
The cops have enormous discretionary power. It can go one way or the other; a little contrition could do him an excellent favour.
How on Earth he managed to live in China so long wihtout getting his status adapted I fail to understand. It's awesome!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by gdbill (319 days ago)

Believe it or not, it is really easy to get by -- at least in Guangzhou -- without drawing attention from authorities. I have lived in GZ for over 12 years and have never -- yes, never -- been told to show any type of ID except for certain banking transactions and when leaving / entering the country. The only time the police asked me for ID was when I witnessed a robbery and they asked me to make a statement. At the end they asked for my passport and I replied that it was at home. They then asked if I knew my passport number and I told them. They included that in their paperwork and thanked me for reporting the incident. Makes me wonder WTF I spent so much money on visas.

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by seneca (319 days ago)

Well, I must set you right on one issue: The police DO have the power to force you to show your ID. It's not much unlike HK, really.
I once appeared on their radar; this was because two cops on their daily beat saw me on 2 or 3 consecutive days at the same time in early morning.
The last time they didn't ignore me; they disappeared and reappeared, then followed me on their motorbike, and at one point they overtook me, then stopped and waited for me to walk upto them.
I had no ID on me but was recognised by a passer-by; otherwise I could have had a hard time in their police station, I suppose.
And no, the location where they checked me out was in no sensitive area. It was a rather gentrified residential area.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by gdbill (319 days ago)

Get out your dictionary and re-read the previous post. Nobody said the police do not have the authority to ask for ID.

(I am based in Guangzhou)