Posted by
windows123
16 yrs ago
My brother is very closed to being offered a job with a bank based in Hong Kong. The problem is that he has a criminal record in Hong Kong that has not been pardoned. My brother is innocent but that's a seperate story altogether. Nevertheless it is a criminal record. The questions are 1) Is background check fairly common these days? 2) If background check is conducted, would it be covering all countries that the candidate has been lived in? My brother currently lives in New Zealand. 3) is criminal record in Hong Kong a public record that can easily be checked, or a private record that requires my brother's authorisation? Thank you.
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Oski
16 yrs ago
For most bank positions, background check is mandatory. If the position requires HKMA registration, the check is very thorough. Your bother's HK record will most certainly come to light.
When they conduct background check, HR will ask your brother to sign an authorization letter. This allows them to check everything, except cases sealed by court order. (i.e. records before age of 18)
So most likely your brother's record will be found. Whether it will cause a change in the job offer depends on the position, type of record, and length of time past.
Example if the record is for something minor, like drunk driving, disorderly conduct etc. and it happened a long time ago, the employer probably will overlook the incident. If the record is for a serious felony or a financial crime, the job offer will almost certainly be jeopardy.
In addition to the Employer's requirements, a criminal record may prevent your brother from getting an employment visa.
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Balii
16 yrs ago
I work in finance/banking. My company is the biggest division of one of the biggest listed banks though the Hong Kong operation is small. I joined the company few years ago from outside Hong Kong. I didn't need go through any criminal record check. My visa wasn't a problem either. I did have some servious driving offenses. Few disclaimers here: first, my company is not a u.s. bank. I would imagine the u.s. banks have more strick security checks. second, my driving offense may not be considered harmful. lastly, i joined the company few years ago but i doubt things have changed dramatically. I actually asked one of my new colleagues whether she needed to go through any criminal record check. the answer is "no" . can't ask her about visa as she is local.
Hope the above helps. i know it's tough going through court and hope goes well for your brother, especially that he is innocent.
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Oski
16 yrs ago
You don't remember providing a background check does not mean it was not done. When you signed your employment contract, there is a paragraph in the there that authorizes your employer to check your background. (or it could come on a separate form.) Whether your employer did that, there is no way to tell. Because there is really nothing for you to do. Unless they find something that needs an explanation, you would never know about it. (if the worst thing on your record is a few traffic violations, you would never have anything to worry about.) However, your employer certainly is entitled to do so.
If your job needs HKMA or SFC registration, the process is much more involved. For starters, the registration application is 8 pages long, most of the items are background related. After completing the form, your compliance department will usually ask you sign a separate authorization for a third party to conduct a thorough background check on you. The banks have a grace period, the check does not have to be completed before you start working. It is not uncommon for reports done up to a year late. Even in this case there is still nothing for you to do except filling in the application form.
Banks are regulated entities, so even though most jobs do not require regulatory registration, bank internal rules usually require at least a criminal record check. So if you have a minor record (traffic violations don't count.), it is best you explain to the employer before the HR dept. finds out on its own.
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Oski and Balii, sincere thanks for taking your time writing the replies. We checked with our lawyer yesterday. He has no idea whether banking employers check criminal record or not. His law firms does do any check other than reference and sometimes academic qualifications checks.
Oski, it's good that you remind us about the sfc/hkma registration. I think my brother will need those. From your replies, I gather that 1) the bank would need my brother's authorisation for checking the criminial record? Otherwise they can't check? 2) the checks are worldwide? Can you confirm?
It is also interesting that you mentioned the checks can take up to one year. Why does it take so long?
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Oski
16 yrs ago
1) yes, they will need to get your authorization. But they won't take "no" for an answer. for HKMA or SFC registration, they are required by law. If you say no, there would be no job. 2) Criminal records are not readily available across borders. Is this job in HK or in NZ? if it is in NZ, there is a chance they will only check in NZ. Background check across border is difficult but can be done. The checks are supposed to be global, but they don't always do a good job.
Reason it takes very long is because it is government work. HR departments or third parties (such as a law firm) hired by the employer sends a form to all the jurisdictions the applicant has lived in for the last x years, (I think it is 10 for SFC, not sure for the HKMA) and wait for a reply. They will also send a letter to your embassy/consulate, for a list of all the aliases and passport numbers you have used in the past. (so changing your name or getting a new passport usually will not work.) It is very common for these government agencies to take 6 months or more to answer back. Banks don't have to wait for an answer before employment starts.
As I mentioned before, the registration application form itself is very detailed. It asks the specific question if the applicant has been convicted of a crime, and for the details if the answer is yes. I would strongly recommend your brother to disclose on his own. It won't necessarily mean the job is gone. It really depends on the requirement of the job and the nature of the record.
If the record is serious, I would recommend your brother not to take a job with an HK bank or in HK. If he starts the job then somehow gets fired, the next employer(s) may find this out when they verify employment history.
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Balii
16 yrs ago
I had a look at my employment contract. There is absolutely nothing about background check including criminal record. neither have i signed any form to authorise any check. i asked few friends as well. one works for jpm and yes, jpm does the checks though not sure it covers all countries that candidates have lived. another works for an european bank has to answer the questions about conviction etc.. i therefore can conclude that not all companies do the checks. i personally think you brother should go ahead and accept the offer and see what happens.
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Balii
16 yrs ago
my driving conviction was quite serious, not speeding or going through red light. the conviction had a lot to do with legality, if you know what i mean. it is certainly not something that warrant penalities such as not getting a job. i hope all will be fine for your brother. it must be tough for him.
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Windows123, just want to say lawyers are total waster of time and money. You would get better advice posting the question in other forums such as the living in hk forum. Almost everyone on this site is expat and surely all can tell you whether they have had any background check.
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Oski, The job is in HK. Again, thanks for your advice. Are you in HR? Obviously you know a lot.
Balii, Thanks a lot for getting the information. Yes, it has been very tough for my brother and his family. He has kids and non-working wife to support. Even ignoring the fact that he was innocent, the conviction was completely unjustified. We were told that the Hong Kong Magistrates don't really care about proving beyond reasonable doubt. It's more you are guilty unless proved innocent. We would have better chance taking the case to higher court but we don't have the resource and energy. Yes, it's been very tough. And there is only so much I can do for my brother.
Gymgirl, you made a good point. I will stay here for a little longer before moving to another forum. Thanks.
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Oski
16 yrs ago
Hi windows,
No, I am not in HR, but I have worked for major international banks for 15 years, (most of the time as a registered person in the front office,) and as a manager with people reporting to me, I know how the hiring and registration process works. I have read some of the background reports on people under my charge. Generally speaking, if the check is done by bank internal HR, is very rudimentary, but the reports done by outside search companies read like short biographies. BTW, for registered persons, the standard for background check moves from bank internal rules to legal requirement, and responsibility shifts from the HR dept to the compliance department.
As a registered person, I can tell you that our records and reputation are very important to our careers, and worth protecting. If your brother's specialty requires him to be registered for his work, then he really should consider avoiding HK. (assuming his professional records out side of HK is unblemished. If no registration is required, he can wing it like Balii suggests.) Employment records for registered persons are reported to the regulators. One of the reporting item is the manor which the registered person departs from each employer. If a registered person is dismissed due to failure to disclose important information, there will be a record. International criminal record check is spotty at best, if your brother goes to work in London, Tokyo or NY, there is a good chance his HK record will never come to light. (if he does not disclose he has ever been to HK, the background checkers will never know where to look.) However, records kept at various countries' financial regulators are very easy to check. So if he gets in trouble with his HK registration, there is a good chance all his future employers will find out.
HK is a small place, one among half a dozen financial centers of equal or greater status. It is easy to avoid.
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Oski, I have sent all your notes to my brother. They are really helpful. Thanks! We have decided to accept the offer and see what happens. We will take the risk and authorise the background check. We really don't have any choice. Not working is not an option as there are kids and wife to support. Not listing previous Hk work experience is not an option either as they form a significant part of his woking life. We haven't worked out what to do if we are asked about the criminal records. What can we do? We don't want to lie about it. Telling means loosing the job. It's a good position and I am sure they have one or two back up candidates lined up. We will work out what to do with the registration with the regulators later. It does make us wonder what exactly purpose this injustice serves. For the time being, we need to be focused on the important thing, that is, finding a solution and providing for the kids. Thanks again.
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Oski
16 yrs ago
Best of luck to your brother.
If asked, just be honest. If no regulatory registration is required, there is a good chance internal HR check will miss it. (or never bothered.) However, if registration is required, be prepared to answer questions. File the application honestly. Unless the record is related to a financial crime, it does not necessarily mean an end to the job. HK rules are more forgiving than the US and UK equivalent.
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mdap
16 yrs ago
the past is the past and what is done is done ... yes the record will come to light when the SFC,HKMA, HKSI etc do a reference check on your brother. However, you can mitigate your circumstances by being honest with the potential bank your brother has been offered a job with - he will not be the only person to have a record working for a major bank. If the offence is over 10 years (and any custodial sentence was less than 2 yrs) it can (in the UK anyway) be considered 'spent' and the person has no obligation to declare the record- however if the job is giving financial advice it is better to disclose. Honesty is the best policy here .... and your brother may be suprised how supportive the bank may be ..... but obv depends on the nature and severity of the crime.
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so what happened at the end?
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To windows123,
How does your brother job go? I am an accountant at big4 firm, recently, 1 of my mentee asked me if her criminal record poses a threat to her big4 offers (already got offers but pending employment). So I'd want to ask for your opinion. Thank you.
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It is very very important to check the background of people thourgh any specicifc software(http://backgroundfinder.com ) or kind any federal investigation things.Sometimes deserving people dont get job because of their criminal record which they did not do.I think this should be addressed in the govt. forums and there must be some relaxations in some cases.
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Hi windows123
Not sure if you are still using this forum, but I think we are all concerned about how your brother did in the end. Could you also share so as to benefit the others? I have a friend who is recently considering to move over and facing similar issues.
Thanks!
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