Posted by
nucleus
11 yrs ago
Hi there,
To cut a long story short … I got myself into a complete mess. I owe several banks money, loans totaling $500k (consolidation loans on top of consolidation loans etc).
After working out the pros/cons … I decided to file for bankruptcy. The solicitor’s fee is a bummer at $15k, which is I could only afford after two missed loan payments …
After calculating my expenses (food, rent, bills, travel etc) I am left with $2,000 per month, which I am happy and willing to pay back to the creditors. To put this into perspective, my total loan repayments before, was over $12K per month, which I can’t afford.
The thing is … I won’t get the bankruptcy filed until I paid the solicitor’s fee of in $15k in full, which is another month away. So in the meantime, the banks are phoning and chasing me everyday.
I did try to negotiate with the banks for a lower payment terms, but they rejected it and have passed my case to their debt collection department. I don’t think they’ve passed it to a debt collection agency yet.
I am preparing for the worst. I might lose my job (IT support technician) because they are now starting to phone my work place. Not sure if they physically (in person) go to my flat or work place, will they?
And once bankruptcy filed, when all this harassment stop?
Let me just say this … I know I’ve done wrong and I am not running away from my responsibilities.
I will let you guys know how it will turn out … as I want to help others like myself.
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Does any one know how many others in a similar situation are out there. I see a lot of people spending up in HK and I wonder where all the money comes from and I get the feeling their credit cards and loans are melting down.
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lonley_boy,
There's no going around the issue ... We owe money, we have to pay it back. I'm going through the bankruptcy route because I can't afford to pay back what they're asking per month. I need to eat, live, work and pay rent.
So with bankruptcy filed, the court/trustee will work out how much you can afford to pay back to the creditors.
Once declared bankrupt, the amount you pay back should be legally bound by law (unless your situation changes), so hopefully the debt collecting agency will not hassle you ... because you are paying back creditors what the court orders you to pay.
I am not sure if this is the way it works in HK, so any advice or correction is appreciated.
I'm sharing my experience whether good or bad in the hope that it will help people in a similar situation. I will update this thread over the course of the next two months.
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Update:
As I still haven't saved enough for my solicitor's fee (not until another 2 weeks time) I haven't filed for bankruptcy yet.
And I just found out that one of the banks have pass the case to a debt collection agency. They came the flat and cause a scene (I was away at the time). The neighbors came out etc. My grandmother was scared!
I can't believe they would actually come out to the flat ... I thought loan sharks were bad, these guys are worse! Aren't there laws against this? Or do they have the right?
And if anyone can advise me? ... once the bankruptcy goes though, would these debt collectors stop?
Please ... any advice is comforting for now. Thanks.
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Update 2:
I just found these debt collectors have been visiting the flat 3 times last week (Wed, Fri and Sun) around 3-4pm to hand deliver the notice. Unfortunately I was at work and my grandma answered the door but did not let them in.
I have reported this to the police, but they are powerless to do anything unless verbal threats or intimidation are used.
Phone calls are non stop since 6th May ... right through until now 10th June. In total over 80 calls!! None of which I have answered.
I have kept the letters and took screenshots of the calls on my phone.
I have another 2 more weeks before I can file for bankruptcy ... that means 2 more weeks of living hell?
It's not that I don't want to pay ... I missed 2 payments that's all. I just want to pay a lower amount until I get can back on my feet, but the banks won't accept it. Shame on you CITIBANK for using bully tactics by 3rd party collectors.
It's affecting my grandma and the neighbors now :(
Please any advice?
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Well, I just spoke with them ... they are unwilling to accept a new plan, unwilling to accept the ORIGINAL plan. They now want half of the total amount now ... and the other half in installments!? That's just CRAZY!
They said they can't do anything because the case has now been passed to the debt collection agents. Come on!! ... I only mised TWO payments! but I WANT to pay!!
What is wrong with these guys?
If they insist ... then all I could do is call the police if the debt collectors start harassing and for me file for bankruptcy. So much hassle, so much stress!!
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Just found out ... if you missed your payments for 2 months, most banks will CANCEL your loan account and request you pay the FULL amount period (including fees, charges and interest. If you don't, then they will pass it to a debt collection agency. That's when your life will turn too HELL!
Taking a loan out in HK is not like UK, US or abroad ... at least the banks abroad are understanding and willing to negotiate if you explain your situation ... HK banks will NOT and do NOT negotiate or understand. I have offered my monthly payment ... they won't accept, they insist on the FULL amount ... where in the **** am I going to get the full amount?! For this reason I have no choice except go bankrupt. I don't understand why they are doing this ... I don't have any assets, so why are they forcing me into bankruptcy?, which they will get close to nothing.
Advice for all you expats who are thinking about taking loans in HK ... I would seriously think twice (wait 3 times) before you do it. I did it and it is the WORST decision I have ever made and I am suffering the consequences. Remember, I only missed 2 payments (and I did phone them to explain, it BEFORE it happened).
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If they want to go after you they should go through the courts - AIG went bankrupt for over US$50bn but creditors didn't turn up to their office every day to demand payment.
Either ignore them (i.e. change your phone no and address) or wait for the bankruptcy order to be confirmed and then you could use them in the small claims court if they breach the terms of the bankruptcy.
Coming to your residence (even standing outside your door everyday) is not illegal in itself as long as they do not commit any actions such as assault or threatening behaviour. 'Harrassment' is difficult to determine precisely but it might be worth calling the police every time they show up to establish a record, if you can spare the time.
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Get the money from family and friends to pay it all back or declare bankruptcy. You might want to do your research on HK bankruptcy law to determine what it can and cannot do for you. The laws here will not be the same as the laws overseas.
Mind if we ask what you borrowed the money to do?
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It was loans to cover loans to cover credit cards ... built up over 3-4 years. I over spent with no planning, plus I had a life crisis duing a split up. Had to move out and spent it on rent, during that time I was jobless for a year :(
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Just a FYI Citibank has turned thos over to collections and written it off their records. The collectors now öwn" your debt. You can negotiate directly with them, but Citibank is out of it now. Any outstanding debt similar to this is "sold off"to debt collectors and they get whatever they can extract out of you either by indimidation or sheer pain in the @ss.
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According to the HK Bankruptcy law, once the order is issued ALL creditors (even if the orginal debt is sold on to debt collection agency) should be stop their action. IF they fail to do so, they are commiting an offence and can be counter-sued for HKD $1,000 for each incident. That's why it's important to keep a record of these incidents.
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Thanks for the reply and feedback. It's given me some hope and direction. The day has finally come to pay the remaining solicitor's fee for the bankruptcy (Tuesday). They will sumbit this to the court the next day (Wednesday). The solicitors was very helpful with advice.
As soon as the petition is filed, you'll be given a bankruptcy order number. With this it should stop the debt collectors from chasing. I will be officially made bankrupt in a month's time when the bankruptcy order is issued (during time time of filing and issuing, the debt collectors should stop). If they do continue, I will take your advice and make a note of each and every incident (phone calls, house calls and keeping all letters). The solicitors said to ask for the collector's fax number or contact details ... they will do the rest.
So far for a period of 8 weeks (from 06/May/2013 - 25/June/2013), there's been more than 120+ calls (3-4 per day) to my cellphone and work phone (in the office), 3 house visits and 10 letters. During this period, my health suffered and my mental condition took a major hit. But try and be strong.
Not that I don't want to pay back ... I DO, but the banks have given me no choice. They rejected my offer, and weren't willing to listen or make a deal that's "reasonable" (in the light of my circumstances).
What really affects you during the bankruptcy process (no sleep, no concentration, no appetite) is the uncertainty, the long periods of waiting and the feeling of helplessness.
Days feel like weeks, and weeks feel like months and months feel like years. Whatever you're feeling, remember you're NOT alone. Sharing feelings or talking about it (to close friends that you can trust) can help wonders.
It's not quite over yet. I will give you an update over the next few weeks. Let's hope the bankruptcy will allow me to pay a more reasonable and affordable amount back to the creditors.
If anyone is going through the same as me, please PM. We can chat and offer some guidance.
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Hi nucleus I got mine done already last week my hearing is on the 30th July and I need to attend another hearing on the 15th to unfreeze my accounts so I can have money for myself
Yea it's pretty stressful to declare bankruptcy let's support each other through these rough times
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Update:
After I filed the Bankruptcy petition with the Solicitors on Tuesday. It was presented to the court on Wednesday ... As you know the debt collectors were still phoning and chasing up until I told them that I filed for Bankruptcy. They wanted the solicitors to fax the paperwork to them ... I gladly agreed and the harassment stopped immediately.
Court hearing is one month after I filed for Bankruptcy during this time, and I'm glad to say there have been no harassment.
So far so good (fingers crossed) no harassment, but if they do ... I will and make a note of each and every incident (phone calls, house calls and keeping all letters) if any. It will help with my court case.
I should have gone bankrupt a long long time ago ... but being stubborn I thought I could handle the situation, but obviously it was way out of my depth. Hopefully, the court will set down a reasonable/affordable repayment terms (-minus my living expenses). At least there's no more harassment ... and I can LIVE my life! (albeit with out credit ... only spend what you got).
There is LIGHT at the end of the tunnel ... remember, if your in a similar situation please don't be too proud to seek advice and don't think you'll lose FACE. Hundreds of people are similar situations. The worst thing is to hide and burry your head in the sand ... cos those debt collectors and phone harassment WILL affect your well being.
More to come ... after my court hearing
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Well, things have been OK so far. Debt collectors have stopped chasing. Court hearing is on a couple of weeks. But filling those forms is mind bloggling ... plus I read Chinese.
Should I wait until I meet my receiver case officer whose handling my case before filling in those forms?
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I only received a letter from the official receiver yesterday and need to prepare the documents
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I too also received the official receiver letter. I have prepared the documents they asked of me, and I have submitted it. I managed to get a letter from the official receiver office to enabled re-activation of one of my bank accounts ... this allows my employer to pay my wages in.
The next stage I believe is to have an interview with the official receiver officer who is handling my case, to determine what I must pay back (minus living expenses)
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My meeting/interview is this coming Friday ... where I will meet with the creditors to determine what I'm able to pay.
Hopefully, it will be an amount which I'm able to afford.
Will let you know the outcome next week.
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that's a long process you've been through - Hope you are past the worst now. What was the result of your meeting and what was the amount you were lawfully bound to pay each month and for what duration?
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