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Hong Kong vs USA
Posted by gill2008 (84 days ago)
Dear all,
I am born in HK and working here. Planning to move to USA.
Could someone tell me the good and bad between HK and USA?
Which is better in terms of money, benefits, environment, people, stress etc?
Thanks.
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Posted by axptguy38 (84 days ago)
You could write a book on the subject. First of all, where in the US? The country is anything but homogeneous. Places like New York, Cleveland, Atlanta, LA, Miami, Kansas City and so forth are rather different culturally, although there is much commonality.
I would say that good and bad depends on what you like. I loved LA but I wasn't a huge fan of southwestern Connecticut. I really like HK.
Stress is very variable. A city like NY can serve up a lot of stress. A place like Pittsburgh, not as much. A small town in South Dakota, even less.
So first of all, where are you going in the US? ;)
Having said all that, I have found Americans to be generally very nice people. The whole "Americans are uneducated" stereotype is a bit overblown. Sure, there are such people, but you'll also find the very smart and cultured and everything in between.
Stereotyping a bit:
- Americans like to do a lot of activities during their time off. They're always off doing something.
- The corporate culture is more based on individual achievement than HK.
- Communications are more based on what is said while in HK there tends to be more subtext ("what is not being said").
- The US obviously offers more variety than HK when it comes to lifestyle choice.
- The US is convenient. You can find stuff easily at the local megastore or online.
Posted by ArtinHK (84 days ago)
Americans are far far friendlier than people in Hong Kong, as a general observation. Americans care about culture and strive to live a life. Americans care about the world and want to help people from other countries. There are very very smart and eloquent Americans and there are very rustic folks too. It's a country of variety and yet a country with passion for life. Hong Kong is for people who just want to make money, talk about money and go shopping and eating. I don't know what people here do all day other than rushing from one place to the other. It's just unreal. What about personalities? What about relaxation? What do people do in this seemingly beautiful but most of the time very empty city?
Posted by gill2008 (84 days ago)
Thank you both.
Actually I am going to stay in California.
I am just looking for a place where there is value for your private/family life. Unlike HK where people have no consideration of your own time.
I prefer to work in more friendly, casual and social environment where its all opposite.
Posted by cookie09 (84 days ago)
"I am just looking for a place where there is value for your private/family life. Unlike HK where people have no consideration of your own time.
I prefer to work in more friendly, casual and social environment where its all opposite."
Go to Europe, mate...Scandinavia sounds like what you need
Posted by axptguy38 (83 days ago)
"Actually I am going to stay in California."
Southern or northern? California be very social, friendly and casual. A lot depends on you of course, but the quality of life can be very high.
As for Scandinavia, certainly "quality of life" is highly prized, but in my opinion the tax regime means giving up a lot of personal choice when it comes to spending, saving and retirement.
"Hong Kong is for people who just want to make money, talk about money and go shopping and eating. "
Come on now. We're not ALL like that. There is variety in HK as well. Not that I dislike shopping and eating but you make it sound like HKers are all just shallow and materialistic.
Posted by funbobby (83 days ago)
Wow ArtinHk, that's really quite the generalization....there are many many HKers who are incredibly friendly and outgoing (once you get to know them)...certainly most people here are more reserved in public, but they are hardly all rushing from one place to another....maybe it's my circle of friends, but we (I'm not local) spend as much time as possible enjoying life with our kids, hiking, going to the beach (they aren't packed with expats btw..those are mostly locals, Ocean Park, etc and yea, eating socially (a person's gotta eata right lol!)
like axpt says, it's not ALL shallowness and money...
Posted by axptguy38 (83 days ago)
"we (I'm not local) spend as much time as possible enjoying life with our kids, hiking, going to the beach (they aren't packed with expats btw..those are mostly locals, Ocean Park, etc and yea, eating socially (a person's gotta eata right lol!)"
Hey, sounds like my life lol.
Posted by ArtinHK (83 days ago)
I am not just talking about local HKers. I am talking about westerners here as well. For example, my neighbors are a British couple (or wherever they are coming from since it was impossible to have a conversation with them). The wife couldn't look at me in the eye and say hello. Now I am not a heinous looking monster, or at least I hope I don't look like one. The husband was barely able to say hi to me when he saw me, which I suspect was due to the fact that he had problem speaking like a real man. It felt as though it took a lot of effort for these two people to acknowledge that they had another neighbor right next door. If I were in the US, I would have been friends with my neighbors after three days.
Another example, I am never really greeted in the morning when I see other people in the hallway or down the street. No one here knows how to say "Good Morning." Will it kill someone to say "Good Morning"? Maybe, since no one does it here.
When I hang out with locals, they like to talk about money, how to make more money, how to invest, how to make even more money so that they can buy yet another house and rent it out. Guys, this life is insane. I would like to enjoy life as I always did in the US, but I find it hard to meet people here who are not focused on MONEY. Man, sometimes it feels as though everyone here is yelling silently, "Show Me the Money!!!" The waiters in restaurants can't wait to get rid of me once I finish eating. I am a piece of garbage waiting to be thrown out of the door once they collect their money.
In America where I used to live, people like to enjoy life. We gather together and drink beer/wine/anything alcoholic and talk about junk. We go to bars/places and explore life in the big city. Here? I don't know what people do. Everyone keeps it to him/herself. I wasn't expecting to replicate life in America here. However, I wasn't expecting to experience this kind of morose emptiness.
Posted by axptguy38 (83 days ago)
"Another example, I am never really greeted in the morning when I see other people in the hallway or down the street. No one here knows how to say "Good Morning." Will it kill someone to say "Good Morning"? Maybe, since no one does it here."
Around where I live most people says good morning, in the building, on the street, on the hiking trail. I live in Repulse Bay. Where do you live?
Certainly there are a few sourpusses around, even in the building. They are like you describe. They won't look in the eye and go whine to management about their neighbors, other people's helpers and whatnot. At least they give the rest of us something to gossip about. But most aren't like that, at least in my experience.
"The waiters in restaurants can't wait to get rid of me once I finish eating. I am a piece of garbage waiting to be thrown out of the door once they collect their money."
And in the US one is immediately sized up based on the probable tip. Is this better? ;) I have found service in HK to be a bit haphazard but mostly well meaning. In the US it can be quite mercenary.
Posted by ArtinHK (82 days ago)
Unfortunately I live in the Midlevels, not the south side. I know that I am generalizing a bit in my post, but I honestly think that Americans are much more open and friendly than people in Hong Kong. It's a feeling of being free to do whatever you want without someone really watching over you.
In my daily interactions, I either get the docile shy smile from the locals or I get the cold stares and insolent, bland facial expressions from the westerners. I am not 25 years old so I can't really hang with the young crowds in a bar and claim that I have true friends. (I like to be Homer Simpson).
Hong Kong restaurants don't have tips except for some mandatory service charges, which in a way is great because I get to save a buck or two. But I absolutely detest the efficiency in Hong Kong restaurants. A vast majority of waiters are not friendly in Hong Kong, period. They serve you and want you to leave. What I do notice is that there is such a dire space shortage in this island that it is difficult to find public seating. Wherever I go I need to pay to sit down somewhere, be it in a coffee shop or a restaurant. There you go again with my proclaimed "show me the money!" Maybe it's because I live in the Midlevels...
Posted by beerboy (82 days ago)
Hong Kong = low taxes
USA = half your money in taxes
Posted by iwilltry (82 days ago)
Artin, You're really funny....
Yes HK is always on the run, and that's why I want to run away from it. But I dont expect to be in a place where everyone is too laid back and lazy coz ultimately when you want things to be done, you dont want it to hang around there for weeks.
My only problem with being in HK is the requirements of written Chinese or spoken Mandarin, which I cant. This doesn't give us many choices for better jobs. For my husband who doesnt even speak Cantonese, its even worse.
Whats the % of tax in USA?
Posted by beerboy (82 days ago)
Depends on your level of earning but can be 50% between Federal, state, local, ss etc.
Posted by iwilltry (82 days ago)
Are you serious?
Then why people live in USA...its like half of ur salary going into taxes, then what do you save?
Posted by beerboy (82 days ago)
Dead serious, tax planning is of the essence. Knowledge is power, learn and you can save.
I see it time and time again....oh I'm going to move to the USA and live this great lifestyle, be an American, live in the land of opportunity.
Then I ask them if they are ready to pay these kind of taxes and they go ...WHAT ?
Not to mention paying taxes on their worldwide income, don't even get me started on that one !
Posted by iwilltry (82 days ago)
Beerboy,
You're scaring me away now...
If I work normal 9-5 and earn a monthly income, what kind of tax planning can i have since i am not doing business where money can be hidden in offshore jurisdictions.
So what advantage does USA really have over HK?
Posted by axptguy38 (82 days ago)
"So what advantage does USA really have over HK?"
Lifestyle, assuming you want the US lifestyle (and I use the term loosely) instead of the HK lifestyle. There's also the whole "land of the free" bit, which is perhaps looking a bit frayed at the edges nowadays.
"If I work normal 9-5 and earn a monthly income, what kind of tax planning can i have since i am not doing business where money can be hidden in offshore jurisdictions."
Don't worry. You will be able to put away money in the US. If nothing else the cost of rent, which tends to be a high part of expense, is much lower almost everywhere in the US compared to HK. But get a good tax consultant to prepare your taxes. It's very complex and time consuming. However getting it done for you is not so costly. Often the extra deductions the consultant will figure out pay for the cost. He/she will be able to tell you how to manage things.
"Whats the % of tax in USA?"
It very much depends on where you live. You will pay Federal tax (an income tax), State tax (state dependent) and local tax (city/county dependent).
For example Nevada has no taxes except on gambling and prostitution, but you'll still be paying Federal tax and maybe local tax (city taxes pay for city services like police, garbage management etc). On the other hand CT has income tax AND sales tax. Some states have only property tax instead of income tax.
You mentioned California. That state has one of the higher total tax pressures.
For the record, tax rates in the US, even in places like New York, are laughably low compared to my native Sweden, where the total tax rate between sales tax, employer contributions, income tax and the rest is around 70%.
Posted by beerboy (82 days ago)
i will try, where are you from ?
do you have the right to work in the usa ?
have you ever even been there?
tax planning needs to take place before you move not after, or you'll be sorry !
Posted by iwilltry (82 days ago)
I have been to USA twice on a travellers visa. I am born in HK and a resident of HK.
I am soon to have american citizenship.
Posted by D_Laoshi (82 days ago)
I think unless you were to live in NYC, and be paid enough to be able to really enjoy all nyc has to offer, you'd be crazy to leave HK.
UNless you are doing it (moving) for love or some type of edu./dream job scenario.... it takes money to have a good life anywhere too.
HK is much better place to live and work in almost every conceivable way, despite its admitted annoyances like tiny flats and crowds, etc.
Posted by rowboat (82 days ago)
I'm a Norcal transplant and have never paid anywhere near 50% in taxes. A great benefit is that you can deduct property taxes and the mortgage interest on your home from your taxable income.
Posted by jobin (80 days ago)
Well, just wait a few years. After the HK Chief Justice has gone and the BJ replacement has made his mark on society here, you will be very glad to be in USA. In china now, and sooner or later, in HK, individuals are dirt on the street, in the eyes of the govt. Unless of course you have enough money to insure the well being of the local cadre. The bottom line in USA is that the individual does have some kind of voice in the govt. A voice as big as you want to make it.
Posted by cookie09 (80 days ago)
iwilltry, seriously why are you taking on the US citizenship??? you will immediately have to pay US taxes on your income even you live and work in HK. i would defer taking on that citizenship as long as possible...
Posted by axptguy38 (80 days ago)
Same if you have a Green Card. Global taxation is an ugly principle...
Posted by Digital Blonde (79 days ago)
"Americans are uneducated"
I think the stereotype has a lot of truth, in the sense that they are largely clueless about global attitudes and life. But I think what people seem to forget when they make the stereotype, is you could say the same for almost any other country, and more importantly, it has a population of 300 million plus people and only a small fraction of that which do not fall into the stereotype is big enough to make it the largest and most powerful economy and country in the world.
Immigration has changed the average person in America, it is no longer so straight forward or fair to tar everyone with the same brush. But there are large swathes of the population that have no clue that things are different and people see things differently, as is demonstrated consistently on every reality show Americas produces.
Posted by Cucaracha (78 days ago)
I find the quality of life in Hong Kong is higher than in the US, and it's much safer too.
Posted by 6789 (75 days ago)
Yes, with tax planning (a definite must) and without tax planning, you part with your savings, but you also get "some" benefits as a tax paying citizen.
In HK, you part with your savings for that dwelling.
But HK is getting increasingly more POPULATED, polluted.
Posted by beerboy (74 days ago)
cucaracha, so you lived all over in the usa all 50 states ?
Posted by beerboy (74 days ago)
further in the The Economist Intelligence Unit’s quality of life index,
USA ranks 13
Hong Kong 18
Posted by iwilltry (74 days ago)
One thing for sure is, I will give it a try....if I do not like USA, I can always come back to HK. :)
Are jobs in USA higher paid than HK? How's compliance in USA?
Posted by MJ1 (74 days ago)
No one is right or wrong, it's just a matter of personal preference.
iwilltry - You can give it a try, but just be mindful, that even when you come back to HK, you still may have an ongoing US tax exposure / reporting obligation.
Posted by funbobby (74 days ago)
beerboy...any new data since 2005 (when the Index was compiled)? i can't find any, and would doubt the relevance of the QLI post economic meltdown...
Posted by hellokittyhk (73 days ago)
gill2008 - I have just spent a couple of months in California (mostly San Francisco, but a little time in LA). I am not from the US or HK, so I can offer a different perspective from my observations:
Weather in SF is not what you'd expect - unusual weather patterns because of the bay mean cold summers! Otherwise quite warm to hot elsewhere in the state (at least during summer!).
Homelessness is a big problem for California. I also noticed that there are a lot of mental health problems, esp. amongst the homeless. Be prepared that you will get hounded for money everywhere you go.
Public transport is a mess when compared to HK - and is unreliable and overburdened. I felt quite unsafe using public transport in the US. Public transport (particularly buses) were dirty, graffitied and often foul-smelling.
Littering is rife - the streets (even in some of the nicer suburbs I wandered through) were strewn with rubbish. HK by comparison is very clean.
The food there, at supermarkets, was fresh and quite cheap. The meat quality was very good, fresh and also reasonably priced. A huge variety of food, but there is a heap of junk food too... watch out, or you'll quickly begin to lead a very unhealthy lifestyle.
Rent is expensive in SF (and I imagine LA), but other areas I am not familiar with. I paid US$1500/month for a 1 bedroom place.
The Craigslist website is a gem for finding things out - check it out. It is used very extensively in the US, but is rarely used in HK.
Taxes - yeah - are a pain. Aside you income tax, you must add sales tax on top of your bill (be that for food when eating out or retail purchases) so you actually pay more than an advertised price. Seems prices are all advertised without the tax included.
Tipping - also adds to your bill when eating/drinking out. Not really common in HK.
Unemployment rate is massive... I presume you have a job to go to or something worked out? At least something to consider if you have not already.
The American people - I found they were like people from any other place - some were friendly, some were rude, a whole spectrum of characters and personalities.
Quality of service at restaurants was in proportion to the expense of your meal...
The outdoors in California is just gorgeous - Yosemite National Park and the Humbolt State Park were 2 places out of SF that I got to visit - heaps of hiking and wonderful trees...
Overall - I did enjoy my time there - I definitely liked the fresh, cheap food available, the clean air, the cooler temps and lower humidity. I did not like the transport, and not having the feeling of being safe in the streets (or in the home) like I do here in HK.
Hope that helps!
Posted by gill2008 (73 days ago)
hellokittyhk, thanks for the elaborated insight, it was obviously helpful.
I guess until a person personally experience it, you never know if a place is good for you or not....
I am excited now though but lets see how it all works out....
More insights are welcome...thank you.
Posted by beerboy (73 days ago)
Gill, have a great time and try to experience it all, but remember tax planning before getting there is vital or you'll pay for it in the end.
Good luck !
Posted by beerboy (73 days ago)
funhobby, acccording to the Mercer survey, and we'll compare a city in the USA to Hong Kong since thats what Hong Kong really is;
Quality of Living
San Fran 29
Hong Kong not even in the top 50 cities worldwide
That's about the newest relevant info I can find.
Mercer’s study is based on detailed assessments and evaluations of 39 key quality of living determinants, grouped in the following categories:
■Political and social environment (political stability, crime, law enforcement, etc)
■Economic environment (currency exchange regulations, banking services, etc)
■Socio-cultural environment (censorship, limitations on personal freedom, etc)
■Health and sanitation (medical supplies and services, infectious diseases, sewage, waste disposal, air pollution, etc)
■Schools and education (standard and availability of international schools, etc)
■Public services and transportation (electricity, water, public transport, traffic congestion, etc)
■Recreation (restaurants, theatres, cinemas, sports and leisure, etc)
■Consumer goods (availability of food/daily consumption items, cars, etc)
■Housing (housing, household appliances, furniture, maintenance services, etc)
■Natural environment (climate, record of natural disasters)
Posted by funbobby (73 days ago)
i guess that kind of shows the value of these surveys, when in one (albeit outdated) Hong Kong 'ranks' 18th in the world and 4 years later, in another one, is off the grid...take them with a grain of salt...
certainly the Mercer one looks pretty comprehensive, and likely HK's pollution, lack of cultural interest for expats (this is a survey for expats relocating after all) and high cost of living have dragged it down...
Posted by beerboy (73 days ago)
Its legal system since china has begun to make decisions here has also eroded it to the point HK is now somewhat being seen as just another city in a third world country, China.
Posted by D_Laoshi (72 days ago)
i dont understand why some of you expats are here, if you are that down on HK and its future. I'm not saying "love it or leave it." thats not remotely my concern. Although the comment about america-land-of-the-individual is, shall we say, a nice fantasy.
but i am curious as to why you would stay? is it just the jobs/money? those arent bad reasons, of course. but maybe not enough to keep me here myself.
Posted by ArtinHK (72 days ago)
D_Laoshi,
People don't necessarily like a place, but it doesn't mean that they can't stay here either. When I was in high school, I hated it because of the tough curriculum, but I stayed on because I had no other choice. So it is pointless to ask such a question.
You need to allow people to express their own opinions on things, including places to live and restaurants to eat. Don't tell me that you never complain about your boss or your friends. That's part of the life.
Posted by joga (72 days ago)
I lived it LA's south bay area as an expat and loved it. Call me fickle but I loved Hk as well. If you have children I found most people in the LA tend to choose the area they live by the catchment areas for best possible school scores (which can differ greatly) within their budget. Unlike my home Sydney where you choose area first and school second. People were very friendly and our cali experience was extremely family friendly. We were worried about crime at first but it really wasn't a problem where we lived. Air quality wasn't great but shopping was. We did lots of road trips which were great fun. I'm no tax or salary expert but I didn't notice any difference in useable income between HK and LA but I must add we were on an internal company transfer and I alway assume, maybe somewhat naively, that our company is taking cost of living into account and doing the right thing by us.
Posted by Kea_ (72 days ago)
Be aware of the cost of health insurance in the US. If you're unlucky enough to get a job that doesn't provide you with insurance, you will have to buy it on your own and it could cost hundreds of US dollars per month. If you have any health problems to begin with, insurers might not be willing to cover you at all. There's no cheap public hospitals in the US so if you do get seriously ill and you don't have any insurance, you're screwed.
Posted by flashback (72 days ago)
You can go half-way around the world only to find that you have wasted time and money looking for a lifestyle that you could have created in your own backyard.
If you value privacy and safety, I think Hong Kong can't be beaten. People leave you alone in the main, and it is as safe as a place can be. A person can find many places to get away from things here in Hong Kong. Rent on an outlying island or in the New Territories and commute.
If your job is too intrusive. Go part-time, be a consultant, or change companies. Think creatively. No need to run away to get the lifestyle you are after. If relatives are the people you feel hemmed in by, put your foot down. If you're lucky, they'll get P'd off and you'll never see them again, or they will realise that in order to see you again, they'll have to adapt to a new regime. Problem solved.
Hong Kong has a great deal to offer. No it doesn't have unpolluted environment etc. But there are nice places in Hong Kong and only a few hours away, and if you live in LA, you'd be on the highway most of the time anyway, breathing in all that smog (California has one of the highest pollution readings in the world, and this is why it once had an emissions policy that promised to change all of that until it was defeated - view the film "Who Killed the Electric Car".)
So in my opinion, I can't really see that much benefit in leaving Hong Kong for something you could create for yourself here if you worked at it. You're only going to get other problems that come with a new territory e.g. taxes, racism, street violence (see Grand Torrino) adjustment culture shock etc...
We romanticise what we don't have until it's gone, and then we realise we could have made things much better with a few simple adjustments to habits, attitudes and circumstances.
I love Hong Kong.
Posted by Nobamcares (72 days ago)
I grew up in Asia and recently moved back, after spending 12 years in the US and am now a naturalized citizen. In the 12 years I was there, I traveled across all 50 states in the US, and spent a good chunk of time in major cities on both coasts. Driven more than 100,000 miles across the great land, and enjoyed the greatest hospitality of people, black, white, brown and yellow in the US. So unless any of you guys have had such experiences in Asia and the US before, please don't even judge the United States, cos you are so noooooooot qualified. Capiche?
You guys can love HK for all you want, but please don't trash the US. Just because you have had a bowl of wanton noodle in Chinatown don't give you any rights at all to criticize the country. And stop quoting propaganda films to trash the US, cos you know what, at least we allow them to be made. N'nuff said about the fake democracies around Asia (except India, Japan, Taiwan and Korea).
USA FOREVER!
Posted by funbobby (72 days ago)
wow flash, you certainly read alot into gill2008s 4 opening sentences...lol...maybe he simply wants the experience of living in a different country (as I did coming here from Canada) and chose the US...personally I wish him all the best as he can have a great life there as well as here...
Posted by flashback (71 days ago)
Nobamcares, likewise, I've travelled all over the US. My children studied in the US for four years, and one worked a further two years there. I visited throughtout that time. Have siblings who still live there. The point is, the US - like most countries - has its good and bad sides.
My point is one can run off from a place bad-mouthing it, expecting something else to be better.
That's no reason to leave home in my opinion. You're likely to have the same problem in the other country... because, well, you're taking yourself there,,, and the problem is often in oneself, not the city or place one is escaping.
The pollution in California is a matter for the public record. I didn't make up those facts.
Posted by bargoban (69 days ago)
"I think unless you were to live in NYC, and be paid enough to be able to really enjoy all nyc has to offer, you'd be crazy to leave HK."
Before I comment on this, let me comment on the cats who make note of California(L.A.) pollution problem..
As recorded, HK's air pollution as of 2006 is 3 times WORSE than LA, NEW YORK, PARIS, and LONDON. HK's pollution is downright terrible. What really kills me is how people smoke in these bars, then go out taking in all that terrible pollution right after..the laws here are laughable as nobody follows them..
I hope you aren't comparing NY to HK. HK isnt even close with the type of history that the city of NY carries.. Theres so much diversity and culture..here in HK, its just stuck up Europeans..
YEAH I SAID IT!! You people think you are walking on air because the locals here bow down to you!!
huff huff huff..ok..im done with my rant..
Why don't you move to the south? Atlanta is a BEAUTIFUL city..It has everything a city needs..
Posted by bargoban (69 days ago)
"I grew up in Asia and recently moved back, after spending 12 years in the US and am now a naturalized citizen. In the 12 years I was there, I traveled across all 50 states in the US, and spent a good chunk of time in major cities on both coasts. Driven more than 100,000 miles across the great land, and enjoyed the greatest hospitality of people, black, white, brown and yellow in the US. So unless any of you guys have had such experiences in Asia and the US before, please don't even judge the United States, cos you are so noooooooot qualified. Capiche?
You guys can love HK for all you want, but please don't trash the US. Just because you have had a bowl of wanton noodle in Chinatown don't give you any rights at all to criticize the country. And stop quoting propaganda films to trash the US, cos you know what, at least we allow them to be made. N'nuff said about the fake democracies around Asia (except India, Japan, Taiwan and Korea).
USA FOREVER!"
Nobamcares just roced my life a little.
I'm glad to be here but I'll never take for granted the kind of experiences I've had with other cultures and people. Its funny at first the way people here look at others who are different to themselves and what their used to(white), but after awhile, it becomes a little sad..Lives are a bit closed in here..
Like I said, I am def glad to be here though..
LOL did someone just reference Gran Torino in their argument against the States??!? REALLY?!?!
Posted by axptguy38 (69 days ago)
"You people think you are walking on air because the locals here bow down to you!!"
The locals bow down to me? Honestly, I have never noticed this. Sure, those working at my building and in other similar functions are deferential, but as I see it that is partly out of politeness, partly because their job puts them in a "service" position towards me. If I had their job I would be the one being deferential. Certainly that it what happens in the US.
"I hope you aren't comparing NY to HK. HK isnt even close with the type of history that the city of NY carries.. Theres so much diversity and culture..here in HK, its just stuck up Europeans.."
That is highly debatable. Also it only matters if you care about the history, diversity and culture.
"Atlanta is a BEAUTIFUL city..It has everything a city needs."
In your opinion. Personally I wouldn't want to live there. Everyone is different.
Posted by Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (69 days ago)
Just a quick cultural point about the Brits not talking to you. My wife complained about that when she lived there and I've the complaint many times (by the way I'm British myself). It's particularly bad, from a Chinese point of view, when you get asked to a party and no one introduces themselves to you and you are left on your lonesome. It comes across as rude and aloof. My only defence is that they are not necessarily being aloof. They just don't want to be seen annoying.
Posted by Digital Blonde (69 days ago)
"I hope you aren't comparing NY to HK. HK isnt even close with the type of history that the city of NY carries."
Perhaps it is not the gateway for 50 million or so European and other immigrants to the new world. But Hong Kong was a fishing village ceded to the British as a result of the opium wars, and annexed by the Japanese during the second world war, and ultimately transforming itself into a global financial centre.
If we used the definition of age to rate historical richness, then really New York would have a pithy history compared to London, Paris or indeed Beijing for that matter.
Hong Kong does indeed have a rich and colourful history. Its just been buried in the name of development. And the notion that it is not culturally diverse, well as far as South East Asian cities go, nearly everyone is here that I can think of.
What we don't have are what used to be immigrant ghettos from a variety of countries which later became gentrified tourist attractions.
Posted by MommyTo3 (68 days ago)
Although we're European, we have lived in the States for 4 years and our children are US citizens (based on their birth). We now live in Hong Kong and even though I love it dearly, I miss the States deeply. As a family with 3 young children I think HK is a great place for the short term, but in the long run we'd love to go back to the States. At this point we have no desire to return our home country. Having said all this, it's mainly personal. No country is perfect, nor the US, nor Hong Kong, nor the Netherlands, however, the US is were we felt most comfortable and most of home, the country that suited our life style best. That doesn't mean other countries suck or are better / worse, it may not be for us. We'll see what the long run will bring, so far we're enjoying Hong Kong and all is has to offer, but I do miss the States!
Posted by Landbone (68 days ago)
I agree with aexptguy38, the States has many places of different character and lifestyles. California, due its size is similar. South of Los Angeles is very nice, but my favorite place in Cali is San Diego. It is smaller, slower pace of life.
As for a HK comparison, the urban landscape makes it entirely different. In the states, people are typically much more friendly than HK/UK (actually all of Europe) typically in public. People say good morning, etc. One thing that I really like about HK is the public transportation. One of the best ion the world. In the States, you will drive everywhere, so please disregard ALL HK driving habits, lol.
The experience is what you make of it. With regard to work, the US is still the most productive country in the world. You will need to learn their business habits, work ethic, etc. Find a mentor in your new environment and follow their lead when applicable and do not be afraid of making mistakes like the locals here are.
Hope this helps a little and enjoy the experience.
Posted by bargoban (67 days ago)
"If we used the definition of age to rate historical richness, then really New York would have a pithy history compared to London, Paris or indeed Beijing for that matter."
I'm not comparing it to London or Paris. This IS a Hong Kong Expat website, right Digital Blonde?
..and even then, NY and its lifestyle can definitely be compared to those places. I'm not sure about Beijing, but they obviously don't have the diversity and the pros of that..
with that being said..
"Hong Kong does indeed have a rich and colourful history. Its just been buried in the name of development. And the notion that it is not culturally diverse, well as far as South East Asian cities go, nearly everyone is here that I can think of."
HK does have a strong history...and if I had worded what I said to sound as if I am denying that, then i'm wrong for that. Now here is where you've stepped back on my toes..
"What we don't have are what used to be immigrant ghettos from a variety of countries which later became gentrified tourist attractions."
I can see you've never been to NY. If you have, it was probably to hang around Manhattan right? Time Square? The Village? You probably thought you were something when you went through Chinatown and Little Italy or when you bought something hip in Williamsburg..Please don't talk about a place you've never lived. I am comparing two cities. HK and NY.
Posted by Slim Shady (67 days ago)
"I'm not comparing it to London or Paris. This IS a Hong Kong Expat website, right Digital Blonde"
You made an absolute statement about the history of New York compared with that of Hong Kong, and I think the poster was very right to make you aware that by the same token if you compared New York with Beijing, then its history also pales in comparison.
Also I am little puzzled, about what point you are trying to make at the end. You say you are trying to compare two cities, but just prior to it, went to great lengths to say your technique of comparing the two is not relevant if someone else uses exactly the same comparison method with different cities.
So what point are you making? That New York has been around a lot longer than Hong Kong and therefore has a longer history? What has that got to do with anything?
I think the only point DB was making was that in terms of diversity, most countries are represented in Hong Kong, even if the city does not have specific areas that have immigrant namesakes or clustered immigrant populations.
You say you are comparing the two cities, however it seems to me you want to do it on your own terms using your own methodology. And if we tried to use that methodology to compare NY with other cities, then really the conclusion one could arrive at is New York is somehow inferior to London or Paris.
Which means the analysis itself is flawed, because we know that is not true in the slightest.
Big cities in different countries offer very different experiences to one another and trying to compare the cultural experience of each is really a waste of time. Each city offers something that the other is not able to.
Posted by dcnoble (67 days ago)
The short answer to the original post is that you cannot compare HK and the US. One is a city and the other is a rather large country. You really need to narrow it down to a city or an area.
That said, here are some of my thoughts to consider about the two:
Regarding lack of public transportation - Unlike HK, the US was largely designed around the automobile, most Americans get their driver's license at 16 and their first car not long after that--so outside of big cities like DC or NYC, public transportation is an afterthought
Americans are big on efficiency and friendliness--but they are generally not deferential, I have had waitresses sit down with me to take my order, and that was ok because they were friendly and fast (you'll be amazed at how fast a grocery store check-out can be if you normally shop at Park n Shop!) Conversely, friendliness is not a given in service/retail settings in HK, or maybe its just me (?) I go to the gas station and the attendants are really friendly but I walk in a shop in IFC and they are really not. (not just one shop--lots of shops)
Your average American hates pretension, is suspicious of "book learning" and values hard work. Sure, that is a broad-brush, but if I wanted to be harsh I would say a lot of Americans are anti-intellectual, whereas HKers seem to be quite the opposite.
Most Americans I know consider a week to be a long vacation--in fact, I know lots of people back home who only get two weeks of vacation a year and no way would they use it all at once. HKers seem similar, work long hours and take short vacations.
One great thing about America is that there is so much to see without ever leaving the country--which may explain why so many people never do. I have driven from coast to coast and it really is a beautiful, varied place. I know here in HK I can hop on a ferry and go to another island, but it doesn't seem quite the same.
We have a place in Colorado. Truly one of the gems of the US--More than 50 mountains over 14,000 ft.; Home to North America's largest ski resort--Vail; Colorado cities are frequently listed in the "Best Places in America to..." you name it--retire, raise a family, start a business. We also have the fewest smokers and the skinniest population in America. Check out the front range, in particular Fort Collins or Boulder.
Posted by axptguy38 (67 days ago)
As dcnoble says, it varies. The US is a big country with lots of people. I love America. I also hate America. It's that kind of place. It provokes strong emotions in most. It has almost "everything". The corollary is that you can FIND almost anything you would want in terms of lifestyle, from hippie communes in the New Mexico desert to deeply religious little hamlets in the South to border towns in Idaho where the main street is also the runway (true!) to world cities like New York to enclaves of the rich like New Canaan, CT. That is America's greatness. The sheer diversity. If you don't like one place, move to another that suits you better.
Incidentally, a "let me do what I want in my town" attitude is something that most Americans prize, which is why there has been all this hubbub about big government in the past decade.
"(you'll be amazed at how fast a grocery store check-out can be if you normally shop at Park n Shop!) "
Your results may vary. ;) I find the local Wellcome ladies lightning fast and so nice compared to the surly robots in the grocery stores in Southwestern CT. Then again in Orange County, California, all the cashiers were really nice and also quite fast. But this just goes to illustrate my point about the US being diverse.
Posted by gill2008 (66 days ago)
Hi all,
Thanks for the insight.
Now i've got new plans before I even move to USA. I am enquiring about the California Bar Exam since I hold an LLB from University of London (external) and never had the chance to practice in HK or even admitted for postgraduate.
I am still in process of knowing more about it.
Does my external LLB qualify me to sit for the California Bar Exam? I need to go through an credential evaluation after which it will be up to the bar to tell me if I am eligible or I got to do further studies like LLM.
Any idea? Anyone got admitted?
Posted by surf231 (66 days ago)
I am from California and very well traveled - lived in HK for the last 5 years. I have to say many places in California could be considered the best places to live in this world.
Enjoy. IT is always a great experience to live somewhere new.
That said, I am thinking it is almost time to pack up and move back to my beach life in the OC.
Out.
Posted by Sensei (63 days ago)
Will you judge a person without knowing them? Will you judge a place without experiencing it? Choose carefully how you judge and know well its subject. Study more and judge less. It will serve you well.
Posted by petej (62 days ago)
I have lived in HK for over 15 years, moved to Pasadena 2 years ago and have just moved back to Hong Kong.
1. The Chinese food and grocers in Arcadia (LA suburb) are better than in Hong Kong, even the weekday Dim Sum is cheaper and just as good.
2. Almost all US cities are huge, live close to work or pay the price in lifestyle. LA commutes can be upwards of 2 hours one way on a Friday.
3. Total tax burden in California is onerous and rents can be nearly as high as HK. Ran a "take home pay" model and HK is far more profitable, easier to save money.
4. Living in the US is boring, nobody goes out ex. Manhattan, Las Vegas strip, and Hollywood areas. Everyone stays home and watches hours of innocuous TV.
5. The grass however IS greener and the air cleaner over there.
So, depends on what you like but I'd always recommend giving it a try.
Posted by funbobby (62 days ago)
pete...good thing you don't believe in generalizations either...
Posted by Hk guy? (61 days ago)
the USA is going to hell I am afraid. dominated by corporate interests and right wing nutters, plus the general idiocy of much of the population.
HK lacks a culture in many ways, unless you are a local Chinese. And many of them are just part of the consumerism-as-way-of-life here anyway. Might as well be in singapore. Of course consumerism is way of life in the usa as well, and it can be quite quite boring there. more boring than HK I think. The US has a culture, a rich one in many places, but the mainstream/dominant one is absymal. and the food is awful.
as others have said, it depends on where you live and how much money you have. but after 3 years here I have to say HK beats it hands down, despite its own limits.
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