There are many incidents of driscrimation against mainland Chinese these days and some local hong kong people thinks it is political correct to do that. On the website like XXXkingdom there are numerous posts calling dirty names to Chinese mainlanders. They judge people not only by colors, but also by their dialects and even their pronounciation of dialects.
Whenever having any conflicts, some will curse the mainland Chinese by saying you are locust, or you are "qiangguoren" (means people from tyranny nation), or any other cursing words in cantonese. Not to mention they publish the ads on the newspaper saying mainland Chinese are locusts... and they spread the rumor online that mainland Chinese come to Hong Kong to abduct their kids.
I am from mainland China and personally I also have met several cases which make me feel the hostile atmosphere. But what make me puzzled is that they all speak the discriminating words out so loudly and rudely and never afraid of being charged. Why discrimination against mainland Chinese is such a political correct thing in Hong Kong?
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Hong Kong people are scared, and understandably so. Hong Kongers are afraid that their quality of life and way of life is being threatened by China because it is being threatened. Hong Kong doesn't control its future or its destiny, and this will naturally breed contempt.
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While this has been a hot debate issue for sometime now, I think there were past incidents that triggered the outbreak of conflicts such as eating on the MTR, D&G, Hospital emgerency of baby birth, etc. etc...
From what I have seen to date, sadly it will be a continued debate for sometime, not necessary just in HK, but in other parts of the world....
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In regards to the locust add, you may want to remember that it was spurred by some condescending and rude statements against Hong Kong locals by a professor at one of the universities in Beijing.
Also, in many cases what you mention is not discrimination or racism, rather that the behavior of certain individuals can be offensive.
To give you an example, recently when i was in Australia, an Asian man (who happened to be a mainlander) arrogantly jumped the que and began talking to a staff member at a shop in a rather aggressive and rude manner. He was very quickly told where his place in the line was amongst other harsh words which you would immediately call discrimination. In fact most people making these comments had no idea that he was a mainlander... he could have been a Hong Konger, Japanese or Korean to them. The issue people took was not with his nationality, but rather his offensive behavior.
You need to realize that in many cases those people who you accuse of loudly and rudely discriminating, are perhaps venting their anger at the behavior of an individual, regardless of where he comes from... it perhaps just so happens that unfortunately there are mainlanders who come to HK and behave in such ways.
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For all intents and purposes, Hong Kong is still a colony, it simply changed from British rule to Chinese rule. It is natural for subjects of a colony to resent their master so to speak. To further complicate matters....the 'master' so to speak is less civilized, less educated and more boorishly behaved than the subjects. Strange situation anyway you look at it.
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HKers can definitely be extremely discriminatory at times, to anyone who is not from HK. But in the case of mainlanders, it's not *only* discrimination, it's a reaction to decades of bad behaviour.
HKers have worked hard to build the city, and their hard work is being destroyed by an influx of mainlanders. At this rate, it's going to go from "developed" into "developing" and HKers aren't too happy about that. If mainlanders respected the local law and local culture there would not be a problem, but MOST of them simply don't. MOST mainlanders have very little respect or understanding of HK, not all, but MOST, and that's why they get a bad reputation in general. They somehow make the incorrect conclusion that A) Buying tax free luxury goods is somehow keeping HK's economy alive, and B) this gives them the right to do whatever they want to HK and its people, being arrogant to shop staff, smoking in elevators, spitting inside buildings, letting their kids take ash*t in the street, etc etc. This is not the way to act if you want the local people to treat you well.
At an even deeper level, HKers have seen what China has done to Xinjiang and Tibet, and they can see the same tactic slowly being implemented in HK. They will be lucky if they don't have a civil war on their hands before 2047 if it continues.
This is nothing new. HK nearly slipped into the cultural revolution at one point, there were even mainlanders and pro-Beijingers setting off bombs in the streets, but HKers 'looking down' on this kind of behaviour ultimately saved them. Nearly all HKers today are descendants of people who Mao tried to kill, and don't think for a second that just because mainlanders can forget history that HKers can too - they know full well how history repeats itself, especially when it is covered up and censored.
Finally, if you want to see real discrimination, ask mainlanders in Guanzhou what they think of blacks, ask them how much they HATE anyone with black skin and want them out of China. And then remind yourself that the blacks in GZ are a LOT less in number, and NOT worse behaved, than mainlanders in HK. If that's not enough for you, go and look at how Han Chinese treat Uighurs - I've never seen a mainlander been refused a taxi ride in HK because of their skin color.
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with a quota of 150 mainlander coming to HK to settle, do not be surprised if HK looks like another city from mainland soon.
go to places like Tin Shui Wai or Tsuen Wan and you can see for yourself how back streets are already filled with mainlanders.
by 2047 there would be enough mainlanders to support Beijing to do whatever they want and hong kongers would become a minority in their own city.
exactly the tactic Beijing used with xinjiang.
still most of the tourist from mainland are only allowed in tour groups, it would not be a bad idea to tell the group before they arrive in HK about how to behave in HK and what is OK to do and what is not OK.
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I think I know who is going to win out in this particular battle.
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I don't know who's going to win, but I know who's going to lose.
China seems to think that Shanghai can take over HK's role as a financial hub, they actually believe this is possible - what a joke. A financial hub with no rule of law, no independent courts, rampant corruption, and an environment that repels talented international personnel. Good luck with that.
China needs HK to stay as independent as possible, and many of the top politburo members know this but other powerful figures simply don't understand and are quite happy to destroy the place.
When they finally get what they want - HK being just another sh*tty Chinese city - then they will no longer have a stable environment for FDI to use to tunnel into China. All these Chinese companies who rely on the HKex will no longer be able to use it to raise funds in the way they do now because no one will trust it. HK will cease to be China's cash cow.
So although HK will definitely lose out (think Macao with more people and no casinos), and the people will have a very crappy existence, China will also lose out big time. It's a lose-lose situation. The only place I can really see benefiting is either Singapore or Taipei (depending on how things go).
Anyway with the number of apathetic HKers I see around the place, they really deserve each other. The smart ones will leave with their money when it starts to crumble and only the people with nothing to contribute will hang around, i.e. the ones who either "love China" or are simply more interested in tv dramas than their future.
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Actually, Gaz, I think you underestimate the intelligence of the Chinese people.
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so you think it is justifiable to discriminate mainlanders on the internet, and on the street with dirty words and calling-names, and blaming China for everything bad in Hong Kong's case? That's why it can't compete with other Asian cities? I think you are manifesting your racism here.
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and I can't understand why someone still think Hong Kong is still a colony? is it political correct to say that publicly?
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What is 'politically correct' considering most, if not all, politicians lie?
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we are talking about discrimination here, but someone want to say Hong Kong is still a colony, after Hong Kong has been returned to China for 15 years. What a joke! against the wishes of all the 1.3 billion people. Someone wants to the the split of China. This is so clear and not a politician lie. That's maybe the deep rooted reason why someone is so afraid of the rise up of China and always see the dark side of the story.
About the discrimination, yes, even if it's still gravious, but it is much better than before. Do you know, even less than 10 years before, if you speak mandarin nobody will talk to you? Everyone just pretend they can not understand...
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Joanneinnyc. Can't see what you are getting at. Who is saying HK is still a colony? Obviously, a lot of people here don't like being told what to do by Beijing. Look at the large number of people who actually turned out on July 1. Not sure what you mean about the wishes of the 1.3 billion people in China. When have they ever had a vote?
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Joanne, you completely missed the point, maybe you don't really want to know the answers. Read the whole thread again, slowly. You are talking on a completely different level to everyone else. I'll dumb it down for you:
1. People don't like idiots, it doesn't matter where they are from. Just because an idiot is Chinese does not mean that people have to suddenly say nothing about it. Racisim is treating people differently based on race. If we treat white idiots worse than Chinese idiots then that is racist.
2. What unattendedbag said was the HK is a colony, and it's master has simply switched from London to Beijing. It is still a "colony", now it is simply a colony of China instead of Britain.
3. It doesn't matter what 1.3 billion people want, 1.3 billion people didn't build Hong Kong. Hong Kong people built it. Just because it has "returned" to China doesn't mean that 1.3 billion people can now destroy it for the HK people that built it.
4. No one is blaming mainlanders for EVERYTHING that is bad in HK. Only the things that mainlanders have actually caused. This is completely justifiable.
5.If someone yells at you for spitting in the street, racists immediately think they are being yelled at because of their race. It's NOTHING to do with your race, it's because you spit in the street.
Do you want Chinese to be treated differently to every other race? Should we let them act like primitive monkeys in our city, and not say anything? Why should hold mainland Chinese to different standards to other races? If we would yell at a HK guy for letting his kid take a sh*t on the street, why shouldn't we yell at a mainlander? Are mainland Chinese less evolved than HK people? If not, then why should treat them with more sympathy and let them act like chimpanzees?
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A sad truth about this is that so many HKers are themselves migrants from the mainland. Certain segments of local policatal activism take adavantage of HKers' general dissatisfaction with the status quo and fan public anger by directing it against mainlanders. It is common in any colonies where one finds a pseudo sense of superiority among the so-called educated, just a pathetic way to hide their own inadequacy and insecurity. How many of us have spent time in the poor neighborhoods in HK and observed how they live? Locals spit and curse too. And how about loud talking in public? Let's refrain from putting on a sense of superiority ourselves.
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I would guess that relatively few of Hong Kong's current population were born in the greater PRC.
Not even their parents. You would have to go back to grandparents to see the end of the big influx after 1949.
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@gaz_hayes..
Best post I've read here for a while (especially the dumbing down part) LOL!!
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After being in HK for less than 2yrs, and during visits to Canada, US, and UK, I've had encountered way too many ill-mannered mainlanders, to the point where it is clear to say that the public's anger towards them seems justified.
I'm not saying that they're all ill-mannered, but to come across at least 5 of them a day when I walk through Causeway bay or Central, it develops a serious concern as to what Hong Kong may turn into if the China government grasps more control. Have you seen the news when Hu Jingtao visited? The scene of the military demonstrates the communist rule that they want to impose on Hong Kong. And the censorship in the media is unacceptable in a developed city.
These are the type of things that are fueling the anger in HKers, hence the people that turned out on July 1.
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you have no emphathy to people at all. you don't know how most mainlanders feel at Hong Kong. and you assume that we all deserve the bad attitude if we speak mandarin in public no matter how civilized we are. Why you think the others are idiot? we should respect people with different customs.
Why you assume I don't want to know the truth? You always underestimate the others and think you are someone superior. That's so sad.
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"If someone yells at you for spitting in the street, racists immediately think they are being yelled at because of their race. It's NOTHING to do with your race, it's because you spit in the street. " what a bad example! most of us never do anything like that. Are you allude that I deserve to be discriminated because I did something bad？How about going to a wet market to ask the price but the seller does not answer you because you speak cantonese with mandarin accents? How about people staring at your kids angrily simply because they speak mandarin in public? How about when you go to a toy store, and they do not let your boy touch the toy because they think you are mainlanders? How about being called locusts and "Beimei"(means woman from northern part) in public when you tried to protect your kids?
As a mainlander, if we speak mandarin, we will recieve bad service contrary to speaking English. People just treat you differently. Of course, you can say, we are the same race, and this is not racism. That's why the equal rights law in Hong Kong do not protect mainlanders at all. That's why the columinist can write anything to laugh at mainlanders on the newspaper but they have to apologize to other races if they say the same thing. That's why all the contempts and curses are so public, and so political right here, because people like you justify everything wrong here.
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well, hong kong had its value and well recognized. now its gone. hk chinese cant do anything except discrimination. either they should protest and go back to british or struggle to make it a different country. just like singapore. cheers
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Well said, joanneinnyc. 100% agreed with you!
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Chinese people have a superiority complex it's that simple. Any other nationality is "lower". Just so happens that the HK chinese superiority complex is worse than the mainlander's. Call them disgusting booger-eating chinks they are outraged, but they have no qualms callng other people names like calling people with fair skin gweilos. They resent mainlanders because of the way they behave but even more so for having more money to spend on things HKers want but cannot buy.
OP if you think the HKers discriminate only against mainlanders, you are wrong. They discriminate against every nationality and its worse for the indians, filipinos, indonesians, and other asian nationals
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Joanne, everything that you see you just twist it into your "anti-mainlander" picture that you have. There's nothing anyone can do about this except yourself.
You DID NOT come here for answers, you came here to complain, that's fine but at least admit that and don't pretend that you want answers. I and many others on the thread gave you answers but you don't want to think about it.
For example, you haven't acknowledged my comments on how badly Mainland Chinese treat Blacks in Guangzhou, or how they are breeding out Tibetans and Uighurs, and how they are trying to do the same thing in HK where they are finally facing some mild resistance. You haven't acknowledged anything about how mainlanders love Mao and most HKers grandparents had to run to HK because Mao was going to kill them.
I used the example of spitting on the street because you don't seem to understand anything deeper than that which has been mentioned by myself and others on the thread, so as I said, I had to "dumb it down" to your level because you haven't understood anything so far, so of course it's not going to be a perfect example - I've already given examples and you don't want to hear it.
Regarding the wet markets, did you ever consider that some of the staff at the wet markets simply don't understand your Chinese?
You don't want to hear any reason for this behaviour except that "HKers hate mainlanders", well, please refer to the People's Daily, CCTV, Sina, etc etc. They have plenty of that already. If you want to a full explanation you will have to actually USE your brain.
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On the whole, Chinese better behaved in public than my own race - the English - so can't complain about them spitting etc. Anyway, most mainlanders I have met are polite, have a genuine interest in the outside world, are good company - and are up for anything unlike overly-cautious HKers. The problem, as far as many Hong Kong locals is concerned, is that they feel their city is being undermined because they feel a lot of mainlanders don't know how HK works. The classic case is Joseph Yam. He was too timid to talk about the peg when he was in government but his comments appear to have more to do with the HK$ weakening against the RMB than any concern for HK itself.
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@Jim Fit,
wish it was that simple. Different is good, being an idiot in public, not so much.
With the way some of them mainlanders are behaving in Hong Kong, couple that with the severe case of chronic troll syndrome that the young locals are suffering from, I don't envision a scenario where everyone in HK can just turn into a peace-loving hippie over night, well, unless they somehow decide to legalize marijuana of course.
@Joanne,
just treat people with respect and you'll be fine. The locals are pretty cool, they're definitely race-aware, but I wouldn't go so far as to call them racist, at least they're not violent. Where I come from, shxt's so much worse.
scratch that, I just re-read this whole thread, Joanne are you just plain dumb or is it the crazy CCP nationalist teachings doing the talking here?
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Of course not all mainland chinese have poor manners and behave boorishly, but I think it is fair to say that most have some "catching up" to do in the civilised behavior department ...so to speak.
Part of the problem is that most Hong Kongers ignore the outrageous behavior or at best react passive agressively to it, so it is in some ways tolerated. If a mainlander were to come to the US and spit on the streets, cut in line, urinate in public, play loud music next to you on the train or scream into their cell phone.......they would be met with swift, immediate force.
I respect local Hong Kongers who stand up for their country and demand that people follow their rules, morals and customs. Thats not racism, that is pride and respect.
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Hong Kong is not a country. It is a very small part of a much bigger country.
The rules, morals, and customs of the Peoples' Republic of China are the rules, morals and customs of Hong Kong these days. Like it, or like it not.
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we should respect people with different customs but certainly not including mainland chinese customs of spit, jump the queue, urinating in street,sh*tting in the hall of a mall...
hkger are discrimating all these behaviour, not everyone from china.
most tourist come to hk are happy and they keep coming again. if you are the one with your "different customs" which is so different, pls don't come.
please.
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and just to make it clear "spitting, making your kids urinating and defecating on the street, jumping the queue" is not customs, it is simply bad behaviour.
and mainlanders are looked down upon because of this particular behavior, not because they speak mandarin
I had a friend from Taiwan with me recently (was speaking mandarin), he never once shouted while talking on his phone, I wonder why mainlanders have to shout while talking on their phones..
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99.99% of Mainlanders are fine for crying out loud.
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Well, 99.99% of 1.3 billion leaves 130,000 unsavoury characters.
A group that size could take over HK if it wanted without breaking a sweat.
Unlikely that they all band up and come at once but then just as unlikely as 99.99% of any population being 'fine'.
0.117% of China's population are imprisoned, so...
Not that it's a problem confined to China.
The world is producing more idiots by the second of every race, colour and creed so it stands to reason we meet more and more of them in daily life, wherever we maybe.
This is the world we're creating so better get used to it...
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That's a truly amazing post, Ringo. Full of bile, prejudice, and non sequiturs.
What proportion of your home country's population is imprisoned?
Yes, we human beings are idiots. Welcome to the human race. You are part of it, I assume?
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Prejudice against the entire population, I hope you noticed Woods, not the Chinese.
A little over 0.1 % of Britain is imprisoned, my home country. It's fairly similar across the world. I used China as that's the topic. I used imprisoned to point at that 99.99% of any population is not really 'fine' unless prisoners are considered decent citizens.
You seem to think I'm having a go at the Chinese. I'm not, I'm having a go at the entire population.
If not idiotic, how else would you describe our unsustainable global growth and abuse of finite space and resources? It's certainly not the cleverest move the human race has ever made.
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I am not a tourist, I am a tax payer here. And I have mentioned I do not have those extrem behaviors. I never receive the same treatment in any other places. Tigerwong, did you read my previous post before you drive me out?
About the customs, of course, what your mentioned is very bad behavoirs and we should all educate them to change those behavoirs. I heard that in 70's a lot of HKers also spat on the street. But now you have evolved into a developed society. For some Chinese, they are living in very polluted environment for their whole life and maybe they have developed some respiritory problem. They form a very bad habit of spitting on the street because they do not carry tissues in order to save money or there is not enough trash can, but we feel sympathy for them, so we should remind them kindly instead of calling their names. Instead of assuming that mainlanders are born to be like that. IS this mentality a kind of racism?
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All gaz have said is that some of us did something wrong, so we all deserve to be treated badly in Hong Kong. We come here not to build Hong Kong, but to destroy it. What a narrow mind! Do you think Hong Kong can live without China? Without the human resources from China? without the shoppers from China? Can Hong Kong even survive without China? No to mention all the water and electricity, fresh foods from China?
Some of your topics are too political and I think it has nothing to do with discrimination and you just tried to vent your baised political view points here. I chose not to answer you because you are educated to believe in one side of the story to justify your wrong mentalities.
No, in the wet market, I said cantonese, asking them several times. Very clear cantonese with mandarin accents, but even the helpers receive answers.
Mandarin receive systemetic discriminations in Hong Kong because there is no law to protect us. Yes, Some locals can have discrimination against other races, such as some helpers, but can they calling names and say nasty words loudly in public? can they write colum on the newspaper in any way they want to cater to someone like gaz? can they fabricate stories on the internet to arouse hatred against us?
Gaz always assumed the answers for others, but thanks to your open discussion, now I think I already find the answer here. Because not only uneducated people thinks they should do that, but educated people in Hong Kong resent the outsider from the same race even more. Maybe they hate their own race so much that they would want to evolve into another race.
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Ringo, the world is producing more idiots every second? what make you feel so pessimism?
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Loyd, I don't you where do you get your conclusion? 99.99%?
In this respect, I think we have different culture background. Chinese people, not only mainlanders, for most locals as well, we all like to sit in a big round table to have dinner right? so everyone can chat freely with each others. We would like to gather with big families, big crowds of friends. I don't know why, maybe when a crow of people talking about something, we feel more free. Instead, western people like to have appointment with only two or three friends, so the table is always very small and people can talk with each other in very low voice. When they cross the border to be the consumers, can they change their behavior suddenly?
Is talking loudly so disgusting in Hong Kong? Once I saw a woman talking in English loudly on the phone in MTR and even put her feet with high heels on the chair. But nobody said anything about her. Imagine a mainlander did anything like that...
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scorpion, I always wondered why locals are so smart that they can tell the difference between putonghua and taiwan mandarin? That needs a lot of wisdom here. TO make things simple, maybe that's why in this city, a lot of people dress the same and carry expensive handbags, because they are afraid of being discriminated from the appearance?
On one hand, speaking cantonese gaves us a lot of convienience, on the other hand, if the contonese has accents, we will be discriminated. But cantonese is such a difficult language, unless we were born here, or like a movie star hiring an expert to tutor us, it is so easy to be treated as outsiders even if we learn cantonese.
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unattended bag, why you assume that in united states people will resolve into immediate force if they did something improper in the public? Does Hong Kong MTR has any smell of urine? ? How about subway in NYC? Why no one stops that bad behavior to clear the bad smell in NYC?
Can you shout at anyone with calling names in public in US? can you drive people out in US? No... why? maybe because people have guns?
Hong Kong is a country? you really should update your knowledge.
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joanneinnyc, there is rudeness everywhere in HK, it may be cultural, I am not sure but I'm sure not used to it. I am not a local and can't speak Chinese only English but have been treated VERY rudely at the wet markets, I think you take everything too personally because you see the locals as being against you. I have been told to go away, ignored, yelled at when I tried to ask what a particular fruit was that I had never seen, all in Chinese but I guessed what they were saying. I don't think they did this because I am western, I think they do this because they are brutes and rude bastards. It's not racism per se, it's just rudeness. Yes, and I have seen them serve helpers at the same time, but I don't automatically think they are discrimnating against me and supportive of the helpers. They probably have worked out who will BUY and make them money and who is just wasting their time. HK is a money driven place and these people at the wet amrket just want to make thier $$$, its nothing personal.
In terms of not being allowed to touch things in shops, well it depends on the shop. In the markets I've been told NOT TO TOUCH some material I was interested in buying for crafties. So what, another rude person! Not racism!
In terms of people staring at your son because he speaks Mandarin, how do you know this? They stare at me and my children? Why? How the hell would I know but I just get on with business and don't spend all day raging about the reason why they stare is because I am foreign.
In terms of being called names when you 'try to protect your son'. What does that mean? You got into a verbal spar with others on the street ? Over what? Over their staring or what? Look when I've gotten annoyed at people on the street and yelled at them (usually when they've tried to puch past me into a doorway/lift ect and I'm pushing my stroller) they usually will respond with something nasty. I don't know what they are saying because it's not in English BUT I'm pretty sure they're are just fighting back in a confrontation!
I think you are entirely too sensitive. Don't sweat the small stuff.
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jsanders, only because I have different opionions from you, you call me a dumb? or recieve "crazy" education? why you are so abusive? why you assume your education is normal while others is crazy? You are so biased!
I come here to express my concerns, and we all do here in the forum right. We do not come here to call others crazy, dumb simply because their experience is different from us. Do you speak mandarin in Hong Kong? you have no idea what we have suffered, especially the kids. I don't know why only because you come from a worse situation, you think the others deserve something bad, not only bad service, but also using
abusive language in the media and on the street.
I think there should be an equal right law to protect mainlanders in Hong Kong, so people like you would think twice before they use any abusive words in public.
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joanne, everyone knows hong kong is not literally a country, but it does act like one (border/immigration/own currency etc). So please, excuse my english.
Now Relax. Go grab a cup of tea, you seem very stressed out.
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joanne, just wanna show some support here. You are wasting time here, these narrow minded people would never get it.
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Thanks a lot, better life, but when some one said something bad about China simply because they read the reports, then you will know the media really has power. That's why I just can't accept why the local columnists keep on writing things discriminating mainlanders. once a columnist wrote in her column, "I can say this without worrying about being sued because there is no equal right law to protect them." Then I know why.
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And Chinese Professor, Kong Qingdong, calls Hong Kongers "Bastards", "Dogs" and "inhuman".
Hence why I say we are producing idiots every few seconds...
Idiots aren't born but we sure learn fast.
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Did he already apologize and explain everything? but how about other columinists in town laughing at mainlanders all day long? Are they receive supeior treatments because they can speak English well？
Yes, part of it, "Idiots aren't born but we sure learn fast", I agree with you. They sang loctusts song in public without feeling ashamed.
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He may have apologised but I don't believe he meant it for a second.
We're not born to racism, as any group of assorted race babies playing happily together will show.
We learn it through not thinking things through intelligently.
One professor makes a comment and so Hong Kongers blame 1.3 billion mainlanders.
Some Hong Kong wet market stall owners refuse to serve you and all Hong Kong is now racist.
As I said in my first post, every race has its idiots.
We should not brand the entire race on their actions.
Read Lagrue's post again. He/she talks sense.
To make an opening statement of "Why discrimination against mainland Chinese is such a political correct thing in Hong Kong?' does not help.
Hong Kongers singing locust songs in public does not help.
Be like Lagrue, shrug it off and move onto better things.
Or start a fight and reinforce all the negativity.
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"For example, you haven't acknowledged my comments on how badly Mainland Chinese treat Blacks in Guangzhou, or how they are breeding out Tibetans and Uighurs, and how they are trying to do the same thing in HK where they are finally facing some mild resistance. You haven't acknowledged anything about how mainlanders love Mao and most HKers grandparents had to run to HK because Mao was going to kill them." I didn't say anything about it because I need to do more research on this topic otherwise you will take advantage (cause every word you said is that we should be discriminated cause there are numerous reasons to discriminate against us, and these are just some of the reasons you type first, in your mind, I am sure there are numerous more); also because I think it is not the reason why we should be discriminated in Hong Kong, but now it seems your hatred towards China is the main reason which justify your discrimination against us. and you even say something dumb to my level... Do you think you are superior to others? because you read some distored or fabricated stories and you think you know the world? your level is so high that you choose to publicly show your contempt? do you think because their grandparents run to Hong Kong so we have original sin? and even if they discriminate against us, it is right because we have to pay something Mao did long time before?
What a distorted picture you present to the others! Are you using your brain when you make this comments? Have you even been to those places? Can you read Chinese? How can you make such conclusions ? I do feel a kind of hatred towards Chinese in your post! For example, why you claim that till now mainlanders still love mao? I don't think so. How many mainlanders do you know? How blacks was treated in Guangzhou? why you give comments without any supporting examples? as far as I know, in China we always treat people from other nations very politely and kindly. we treat people from different races with respect as well. Even in 80's a lot of African blacks came to chinese university to receive higher education and many blacks in China can speak very good Mandarin. That's why so many want to come to live in China, even under illegal immigrants status. And that's why people with different customs and culture can mingle together peacefully into one great nation, that's why we have 5000 years history without being taken over by other civilization. Think about the Jews in the second world war, who protected them at Shanghai and Haerbin? Why we can accept and protect them because we judge people do not on races and we respect people with talents and understand their customs.You can not pour your hatred to us because we have so many friends all over the world. But that doesn't mean we should treat killing innocent civilians, abducting airplanes and drug trafficking as acceptable. Generally speaking, we are on good terms with each other. Only people with evil intentions want to destroy our peaceful and friendly relations.
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About the breeding out? I don't think this is the truth. The government only adopts one child policy to hans, but not to minorities, such as Uighurs and Tibetans. And because of different religion and cultures, they seldom marry to Han either. Instead, there are many policies to protect their rights, such as going to University with lower marks. This is a complicated issue, but just think any generalization or blame on one side is too simple and naive.
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Ringo, Thanks for your explanation. Yes, I should learn more from lagrue and admit that nothing is perfect and we should be more realistic. But I also think the equal rights law should protect more people from different categories. Otherwise, there will be more disputes and it is not good for the development of Hong Kong in the long run. For example, less mainlanders will come to Hong Kong to spend money in the future, and the central won't trust the HKer for more important strategic issues... I don't know much, but I just feel always emphasizing on the difference and the wish to go back to the "good old days" is not so promising...
For the fight... yes the US blacks gave us a good example how they won the equal rights eventually... I really respect them for what they have achieved.
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malka, your answer covers a lot of important points! but originally I really want to know more about cantonese culture, and learn the language to mingle with people well...It gets worse these days... I also feel most are being used by some politicians to blame mainland for every problem here.
The legislation part... I know it will restrict the intensity a lot because most people obeys the law here. I just don't know why the law chose to ignore us.
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Largue, the thing is I understand Cantonese! Sometimes I wish I never learned that! When your baby came to pick up a bread and the old lady standing there said some words "qeesi" (a dialet meaning "lunatics") and later said "locusts" to us. You are lucky you don't understand contonese!
My friend did end up in a verbal spat with a local woman who reported to the police and lied she was hurt physically (her husband shouted and pointed finger at my friend), but the police let my friend stand in front of the escalator to question her for almost two hours, and let the woman stay in a meeting room. Later my friend found out this unfair treatment and complained to the senior officier in English. The officier asked “do you speak Mandarin or English with the policemen?" She really regrets so much... she should speak English to the police and Woman instead!
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Joanneinnyc. 'For crying out loud' means 'for goodness sake'. It's an English expression it doesn't mean I think 99.9pc of Mainland Chinese are literally 'crying out loud'. I was trying to say 99.9pc of Mainland Chinese are perfectly okay. If you don't believe me, check with a native speaker.
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@Joanne
Do you even realize the stuff that comes out of your mouth is part of the reason why the locals hate mainlanders so much? You don't go into someone's house and shove your beliefs down their throat, you just don't. Go on and play your victim card and see if anyone cares.
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Cara, you experience something unfair by some sellers in China (does it happen here too), and I am so sorry to hear about that and I do not think you deserve to be treated like that. But why you have no sympathy on us and think we deserve the discriminations by even being shouted as locusts here?
"Racism is behavior or beliefs motivated by racial stereotypes, it generally includes practices of racial discrimination, and ideologies of racial supremacy and hierarchy. Some sources emphasize that racism involves the belief that different racial groups are characterized by intrinsic characteristics or abilities and that some such groups are therefore naturally superior to others, [1][2] or follow practices that discriminate against members of particular racial groups,[1] for example by perpetuating unequal access to resources between groups.[3]"(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism)
Do I racial profile anyone? No, I have a lot of good friends who speak good cantonese and I respect them in a lot of aspects. Do I think I am superior to anyone who speak Cantonese? No, on the contrary, I seldom use English and always speak cantonese with them even though my cantonese has strong accent. Racists thinks they are superior to others by racial profiling, and here is the case judging based on the pronounciations. After reading so many posts, I also feel that the discrimination seems to have nothing with education, because some educated people, not necessarily local, they can have even deeper discriminations because they use every example to justify their discriminations. I am asking whether it is normal for media to convey the same message and why the equal rights law do not protect us. Pls read my post carefully before you say my post read like China daily. What does it mean? I can not write like native, as English is only my second language and for example, I really don't know the meaning of "cry out loud". sorry, loyd, I misunderstood you.
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jsanders, what makes you think I shouldn't come here to post? "You don't go into someone's house and shove your beliefs down their throat..." is that so serious? you describe me as a criminal in a film! you may feel that there is nothing common if we have different political view points, and therefore I shouldn't come here to discuss. Is that the same mentality as "your mainlander shouldn't come to Hong Kong if you do not change your view points"? But some view points are equal to treason, how can I agree?
But even you say I am a victim? why you say I am playing a victim card? Did I play? When someone said a lot of HKer's grandparents were almost killed by Mao and later run to Hong Kong, so that's the underlying reason why they hate mainlanders? Any card more serious than this? On a second thought, were they lucky that they run away from the culture revolution? But most mainlanders suffered including my own grandparents who died of hunger during the famine period. Simply because they were lucky, they assumed everyone else in mainland as the one to be blamed with original sin? ( again, someone's underlying idea, not everyone) Even for those who run to HK, do they suffer the same discrimination because they coudn't speak Cantonese? I have a friend whose grandfather in law was a general in old China, and they run to HK but they couldn't speak cantonese so most of the family members chose to immigrat to other countries.
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Then you should read more stories how the blacks won their equal rights and how the helpers won their equal rights and then you won't laugh at others and will be finally able to show your sympathy, instead of feeling only "dead sexy".
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Once upon a time, we are not hostile to Mainlanders, but because of some unacceptable/horrible behaviors, most HKers do now. I wouldn’t call it discrimination or racism but rather disgusted by such behaviors. Here are some examples: (just to name a few)… jumping the queue, shouting on the mobile phone when half of the morning bus passengers are napping, children playing with dishes and bowls on all the unoccupied table in a restaurant (yak, very disgusting, the waitress literally has to change all dishes and bowls and chopsticks of 4 tables when they left)… urinating and S**ting wherever and whenever they wish… and so on and so forth…. I am pretty sure such behaviors won’t be tolerated in any civilized cities (save for the place these people come from)
As to the locust, well, what better word than to describe those who never contribute to HK but are here to take whatever they can get, because of the inability of HK government and Donald Tsang, we (HK taxpayers) are now burden with approximately 150,000 non-HKers babies since Tsang’s CEO period…. These babies are here for our health system, free education, public housing and etc… before you rant about how HK people discriminate you, ask yourself why first??
The place where I work, we have 2 mainlanders, we all get along well, well, because these people behave nicely, try their best to fit in the HK working atmosphere and culture, bear in mind : when you are in Rome, do as the Romans
First off, how about Maninladers stop the derogatory statement such as “ if not for us Mainlanders, you HK people would have been dead” kind of mentality?. OP, here is your “Do you think Hong Kong can live without China? Without the human resources from China? without the shoppers from China? Can Hong Kong even survive without China? No to mention all the water and electricity, fresh foods from China? “ WTF
Now OP, let me tell you why people dislike you and dismiss you because it is VERY HARD for any persons to like someone who is so arrogant and self -centered…. To rehash your memory, we do survive 100 years without the Chinese intervention and I happen to recall we had a rather harmonious society than we have today..It is this kind of attitudes - they think they are the rich kings and queens who are here to revive HK that is truly irritating.
Yyour “against the wishes of all the 1.3 billion people” , where are these 1.3 billion people when we were working our a** off to build this city – HK which we called our home… why does it matter to us HKers how your 1.3 billion people want, it is what we want that matters.. .
Sorry I did not read all the ranting because it is so painful for my narrow mind. In summary, the conflict has already run deep and it will need a lot of efforts from both parties to ease it, of which I do not see it will happen soon… because both HKers and Mainlanders do not see the need to.
Actually, a lot of good posts from other HKer members here. They are in my opinion, a collective feeling of all Hong Kong people, regardless of whether they are of Chinese descent or foreigners who regard HK as their home.
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"… jumping the queue, shouting on the mobile phone when half of the morning bus passengers are napping, children playing with dishes and bowls on all the unoccupied table in a restaurant..."
It's funny but that describes a lot of Hong Kong people when I first arrived here 20 years ago.
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the poster seems to think that this only happens in hong kong - this "anti-mainlander" sentiment.
what about singapore? have you seen how "unwelcomed" mainlanders are there? and this is before the ferrari incident.
there is a pattern here and you have to question why...
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nothing much to figure out
too much money, too quick, and money cant buy class or manners, as simple as that.
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Hong Kong has got to start taking responsibility for the following problem: we have gone straight downhill since 1997. This place is not as beautiful, clean, orderly, efficient, interesting, or unique as it used to be. It is so easy to blame Mainlanders for everything, for all of our problems. However, the Mainland gov. is basically taking a step back and letting the HK gov do its own thing. Also, people in Mainland tour groups are basically following the rules, standing and waiting patiently, being totally compliant. It's the horrific management of traffic flow, inability to set quotas on tour groups, lack of preparation of these visitors, lack of profit passed onto Hongkongers for all the congestion, inflation, inconvenience we face.....purely the government of Hong Kong failing to lead, failing to set policy, failing to take action of any kind. The rich businessmen, e.g. cronies in CITIC/China Travel, hotel owners, etc. are having ordinary Hongkongers for breakfast. It's easy to blame the Mainlanders but our politicians and business leaders are the heart and soul of the problem.
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Well, folks, as much as I hate queue-jumping, people pushing through doors ahead of me (particularly when I have been so naive as to hold a door open for somebody coming the other way), talking too loudly, and so on and so on, I have to concede that this sort of behaviour seems to be acceptable in the PRC.
Hong Kong is part of the PRC. Ergo, this sort of behaviour is acceptable in Hong Kong.
The European concept of manners will fade away. Sadly, perhaps, but inevitably.
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woods, please stop. Nothing we have discussed relates to european or chinese manners. You are making excuses for horrendous human behavior. Is urinating or pooping in public 'european manners'? Is pushing or shoving someone 'european' manners? Is smoking in a bathroom stall clearly labeled non smoking a 'european' concept of manners?
No. These are not racial or cultural issues. Accepting business cards without two hands or not showing the soles of your feet are cultural issues that could be excused on the grounds of cultural ignorance. What we are discussing is basic human civilised behavior.
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Woods, I can't believe what I am reading from your post. So instead of improving forward to civilization, we should now keep mum and accept that we have to move several steps back and act barbaric and without manners, that it is perfectly alright to be pushed and look down in our own city? I totally agreed with unattendedbag. You truly are making excuses for horrendous human behavior
“Hong Kong is part of the PRC. Ergo, this sort of behaviour is acceptable in Hong Kong.” – says who?? Reality is we do not accept such behaviors in our city and we look down on any people who do and deemed it is appropriate. Hence the conflict, Really? This is your excuse, can it get lamer?
“The European concept of manners will fade away. Sadly, perhaps, but inevitably”, well, we will continue to educate our children and our grandchildren to behave as any civilized people should and I no doubt in my mind, believe that proper manners will not fade away because it is a universal acceptable norm regardless of which cities, race one comes from.
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Ampora Kia,
You have your opinion as to what is "proper manners", people in many other countries have very different opinions.
There is absolutely nothing "universal" about your concept of good manners. Mine might be quite different, and people in places like the highlands of PNG, the jungles of Brazil, and slums of Bombay, just to quote a few out of many, would not have the slightest idea as to what you are talking about
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jim fit,
how can the harbor be cleaner now than in 1995? i'm just curious as to how you came to that conclusion. you might be right, but I highly doubt it with all the region growth in the PRD in the past 20 years.
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woods,
are you one of those spiritual types that sees beauty in a pile of dog crap or are you just being ridiculous for the sake of it? Just be frank with us here, would you or would you not let your kid drop a deuce in the middle of the mall?
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'Drop a deuce'....lol! Believe it or not, the reason that Mainlanders do this in HK is because no one told them that it is absolutely not allowed here. I just screamed at a woman the other day who was instructing- directing- her older child (8? 9 years old?) to squat down and urinate on a grate at a busy roadside which happened to be close to a public washroom. She honestly had no idea that they were standing in front of a public washroom.// This is HK Government's problem. They act like they have 'no control' over the waves and waves of visitors. That is not true. They can choose who they like, train them before arrival, make them watch a video and pass a test for all I care.....but they are going to have to do something quickly and not simply ask Hongkongers to absorb these constant insults, lessened quailty of life, disgusting congestion, slower business day (except in hotels and trashy boutiques).
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I was born in the mainland but had lived in the US for 25 years before transferring to HK. It has been my personal experience in HK that I get far better service and attention when I speak English.
HKers' attitude toward mainland Chinese is more a result of ignorance rooted in bias/prejudice than racism. I happened upon this video clip on line. The text is in Chinese. For the sake of those who don't read Chinese, the jist is that on a HK MTR train, a HK woman became upset because a little girl stepped on her foot. The girl was speaking perfect Mandarin with her mother. the HK woman started cursing them, thinking they were mainlanders. It turned out they were Singaporeans. The HK woman had to suffer through the mother's dress-down, just murmuring apologies that she had thought they were from the mainland. Here's the original text and watch the video for yourself:
港人乘车抢座，争座过程中踩踏挤压一小女孩，发现小女孩和她母亲说一口普通话，以为她们是大陆居民，便对小女孩破口大骂，结果发现人家是新加坡公民，面对对方的反击便一句话也不敢说，任由新加坡女性贬损，只是一味的解释：“我不知你不是大陆仔"
http://bbs.yahoo.cn/read.php?tid-12223194.html
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abl
12 yrs ago
Actually, there are a few hundred thousand mainland chinese residents in Singapore right now, so the woman in the video could very well be a recent chinese migrant who calls herself Singaporean. Because few Singaporea chinese speak "perfect Mandarin". And yes, there are also a lot of complaints about the behaviour of the mainland chinese in Singapore too, so unfortunately the behaviour of a significant number of them such as jumping queue, talking loudly in public etc will cause some people to view all mainland chinese negatively.
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Jobin,
So if I understand you correctly, you are trying to say that the mainland Chinese do not understand that defecating/urinating in the streets is considered wrong or unsanitary?? You don't think they have the mental capacity to think, "hmm, if all 7 million people in HK defecated in the streets, the entire city would be a cesspool". "Maybe I better find a toilet."
I think they are just lazy, self centered, inconsiderate and most of all, they know they can get away with it. Now, if you want to call those traits cultural, so be it. Than we are just arguing semantics here.
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Dear Unattendedbag,
You are right: all human beings on Earth, even those raised in a shack in the forest, would know that it must be wrong to pee and poop in public/on the street in a congested cityscape and if everyone did it, there would be no more city. However, there are different levels of 'wrong' in China. I used to live in Guangzhou and it was wrong to do that there, but people turned a blind eye to it/gave some flexibility to parents in a pinch/endured it. It would not attract the attention of the police, for example.....these visitors do not understand that it is represhensible, ticket-worty, absolutely not allowed under ANY circumstances. It's better to poop in your pants and go back to the hotel and change. They need to understand 'how wrong' it is....and save the reputation of the Mainland People!
****Re: Singapore. Yes, if they spoke 'perfect' Mandarin, they weren't true Singaporeans. They were upscale Mainlanders. Samesh*t, different pile (pun intended regarding above paragraph).
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FKKC
12 yrs ago
Full grown Japanese men urine on their streets all the time, luckily not the women.
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@gaz_hayes, you should be back here :) i soo support you! Not that i hate mainland people, its just their attitude.
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@Joanne You say you are from the Mainland and live in HK and pay taxes but find it hard to bear so much hatred towards Mainlanders from the local HK community who are your Chinese brethrens . Did you ever think why there is so much animosity towards Mainlanders as you have so voluminously stated here in these columns? Is it not clear to you that people don't like you and yet you sound hoarse blaming them to love you, like you, tolerate you?
It is not only HK people but right across many other countries that people do not like Mainlanders. It is not because of racism but because you do not fit into their society nor learn and adapt the social mores of the country where you live and call it your new home. In these columns you are lecturing others how they should treat you and why a law should not be passed penalising those for treating you shabbily. This is what describes the mind set of a Mainlander..that is why people show disrespect and mistreat you.You tread on people's toes and do not fit into the civilised world and HK people do not trust anything from the Chinese Govt either.
You cannot force people to respect you..respect is earned. All this discrimination will vanish when people start to respect you..so please earn their respect first. My apologies to you if you feel offended with my harsh but true words.
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New Rule: If you are civilised/advanced enough to buy a cell phone, you can no longer use the the cultural excuse for defecating on the streets!
I do feel sorry for the hong kong locals. Between the self righteous western expats and the uncivilised/boorish mainland chinese, its a good thing guns are illegal. Seriously though, the local hong kongers are some of the most patient, and accepting people on the planet. It's a shame they will never get the chance to govern themself. Beijing is slowly suffocating this once great city.
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Unattendedbag, I could cry reading your last reply. we are really far too patient indeed, very patient to the point of being look down and not being respected in our own city... luckily, we are slowly coming to our senses and pushing back to those who push us... if only we could govern ourselves!!! looking back these past 15 years, indeed very diappointing 15 years...
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In the 1980s, I visited Paris and witnessed some Hong Kong tourists being their "normal" selves. Loud, obnoxious and indifferent to the stares they were getting from probably the least tolerant bunch of city dwellers in the world. Ask anyone, Parisiens are horrible to anyone who isn't from Paris. Lovely city, rude residents.
Mainland visitors really should remember they are guests and respect the norms and customs of the places they are visiting. If they visit Dubai or Saudi Arabia I'm sure they would be savvy enough to realize that there are some do's and don'ts you must follow. But when they come to Hong Kong, they assume they are in a part of their own country, so the norms they take for granted at home, must apply here. If they took the time to find out the differences, then most of the issues discussed here would go away.
I have lived and worked here for over 30 years and travelled quite a bit into China. This is a generalisation I know, but I have observed that the further north one travels, the higher the propensity of the general population to spit and jump queue. Hong Kong thirty years ago was at the same stage of civic-minded development as most mainland cities are today. it takes a generation to evolve. so have patience. People from Mainland China are not all bad and will catch up very quickly.
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The best part of all the thread in my opinion is from Gaz_Hayes where he aptly sums up the repercussions of Chinese intervention in HK
"China needs HK to stay as independent as possible, and many of the top politburo members know this but other powerful figures simply don't understand and are quite happy to destroy the place.
When they finally get what they want - HK being just another sh*tty Chinese city - then they will no longer have a stable environment for FDI to use to tunnel into China. All these Chinese companies who rely on the HKex will no longer be able to use it to raise funds in the way they do now because no one will trust it. HK will cease to be China's cash cow"
Joanne should be looking at the bigger picture rather than raving and ranting and expecting others to molly cuddle their bruised egos and their misplaced sense of righteousness that is so undeserving.
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I think the local Hong Kongers are very patient and they would want peace more than anything else.
What I can't really stand is, why would the mainland Chinese shout to the locals at their face and yelled "If it is not them, Hong Kong won't make it?", Yes and No! If we think about that in a deeper level. "If it isn't about Hong Kong, would there be so many public listed company in China?". So lets see who is supporting who? I think its more like using each other.
I think if you are not a local from that city even from that village, you should just observe and be more sensetive to see what others do and don't. What you do at home doesn't mean you can do everywhere else. Sometimes we feel like, people just storm into our home and get yelled at for telling them off for taking stuff from our home or doing their deed.
I am sure there are lots of civilised mainland Chinese there, I can't generalised but when I see whats infront of me. I like or I dislike.
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Umm, weeing and pooing in the middle of a street or in the midst of rush hour at an MTR station is not on!! Please, the least they could do is go to a back alley, an exit, or put a diaper on the kid if on holidays in a strange city. It's just common sense.
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Well, at least these gwai-jais do not poke a finger and told us "if it is not for us, you dogs would have been dead" or "how would you even survive without China" those sort of BS
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Not particularly unusual to see poop in the street, particularly after a heavy downpour, when sewers overflow.
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If anyone wants to experience "mainland chinese behavior" first hand, you don't need to get a chinese visa and travel to China, just go to Disneyland on the weekend. It is noticably different than being elsewhere in Hong Kong. I won't get into the details, but if you've been to Disneyland on the weekend, you know what I mean.
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Amen to unattended bag's comment.
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I think at the heart of the matter its partly something more primeval.
There is always been a “Us vs Them” mentality with all divisions of humanity.
At school… Woodwork class hated the math’s class…
The heavy metalers hated the rastafians
Rugby players hated soccer players.
English hate the French
Tongan’s hate Samoans.
Kiwi’s hate Aussies,
The rest of the country hates Jafa’s (Just another Fking Aucklander)
China hates Japan.
Everyone hates Americans.
I’ve have always had issues with the neighbors.
and My co-worker at work has smelly hand cream… dam random women on the other site of the cubicle!
No offence intended.
So the fact that the mainlanders give the argument so much fuel, like by taking a dump on our streets only creates a bigger problem for them, and just adds to their reputation.
And I don’t think anything’s going to change in the near future… unless the government really pushes the anti spiting laws.
Really clamp down…. Maybe would even 1 day jail time be enough to change the spiting culture.
I believe Singapore has some very strict laws concerning spitting, gum and cigarettes so I don’t think it’s impossible.
But I guess the light at the end of the tunnel is in times of need (One hopes) we can forget our differences and humanity can work together.
Although sadly a Great War, or major material disaster is required to bring counties together.
Maybe we just need a nice major climate change, viral pandemic… asteroid… or even a nice alien invasion.
Just to make every one realize how lucky we really are… and to love thy neighbor. … And the toilets are over there!
As for gwai-lo’s at LKF… I take it your never seen a K-Ok bar at closing on the mainland…. Same same. Lol.
Quote :
Well, at least these gwai-jais do not poke a finger and told us "if it is not for us, you dogs would have been dead" or "how would you even survive without China" those sort of BS :Unquote.
Sadly the fact of the matter is we would be HK absolutely screwed without the mainland.
As there are no indigenous energy resources in Hong Kong other than sun /wind and very limited fresh water.
We run on 25% nuclear power and the rest imported gas and coal.
If the mainland was to cut the cable a lowu, HK would become very uncivilized very quickly as you only need to lose one of the 4 (Food, Water, Power, Oil,) and everything would turn to shyt very quickly.
Within weeks all cats and dogs would disappear… and shortly after the humans would start to disappear also.
Although I can understand us eating each other to survive, I’m sure even in this bad state, we still won’t be taken dumps in the street.
Maybe a few… (large punishments publicized) examples need to be made to get the message across to the visitors, that you just don’t act this way in this country… and any part of it.
Guess all we can do is just wait for the next noodle on the mtr or dump on the street videos to go viral and highlight the issue again…. And hope something is done about it.
Keep dreaming. =/
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Perhaps this is why mainlanders have such a reputation in HK:
https://youtu.be/T-02lNhR8j0?si=EmPl8R8qZBOKJBO7
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hi rob_379, your link outlines some splendid vignettes of why joanneinnyc experiences what she feels is a discriminatory attitude, incidents such as these are hardly isolated from what I understand. Could joanneinnyc please review the link and give us her opinion regarding the content?
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Hi rob, just saw what you posted. My God!!! But the thing is, it is not just the mainlanders that do it.
But before I get into that, let me share one story I have about a mainlander.
I was with my daughter on a train once (about 2 years back?), we were travelling on the MTR train on our way back from a day out in Shenzhen and we came across this mainlander who spat on his hands, rub them together then held onto the side pole inside the train near where he was sitting. I almost vomitted. I told my daughter that we had to go to the next carriage because mummy was about to throw up.
However, earlier this year, I came across an Australian woman behaving the same way in Australia. She spat on her hand then wiped it on her black pants.
The reason why we are more disgusted with such behaviour over here in HK is because most expats who come here are highly educated. I daresay all these behaviours happen back home also and they cross cultures, nationalities, races etc.
Joanne is just frustrated because everybody (especially in recent years) are pointing fingers at mainlanders making them feel that they are the only ones with such disgusting behaviour. It is true in a way that HKers do discriminate against them and they do feel that they are more superior than the mainlanders.
Mind you, Joanneinnyc, Hkers (NOT ALL though) don't just pinpoint mainlanders. Sometimes I feel they are the most racist people in the world. They also discriminate against South east Asians, Africans, Indians, Nepalese, Sri Lankans etc etc etc.... (anyone whom they consider poorer than themselves). They look up to westerners (partly due to the colonial effect) but at the same time, they do not mingle with westerners either. So yes, they respect you but they will not welcome you into their circle/personal lives.
Let me point out that not all Hongkongers are like that. Only the very few. Most are educated and most welcome mainlanders, south east asians, westerners etc.
And lastly, I think we are all guilty of discrimination. We ALL discriminate in some ways. Some more than others but we still do however small it is. How many of us enjoy first class treatment even if we know that others deserve it as well?
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coty
12 yrs ago
i understand the hongkongers impatience but the mainlanders are too sensitive too and those well educated ones are very loud mouthed about their 'plight', a situation they can totally get out of if they go back to their motherland - problems solved and peace everywhere.
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jim, I take the exact opposite view. Because Hong Kong is so densely populated, it is all the more important that everyone try to act somewhat civilised. We are forced to witness others behaviors (unfortunately). If we accept jumping the queue, eating on the trains, defecating in public, smoking in areas designated non-smoking, loud talking and just general rude behavior...than Hong Kong will quickly become a terrible place to live. In many parts it already has. Go spend and afternoon near the Sheung Shui train station to get a glimpse into the future.
I understand accepting cultural differences, but I don't think Hong Kongers should learn to accept rude behavior. I think the rude behavior should learn to adapt to Hong Kong standards.
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Whitemischief, not surprisingly, no review of the content by the OP yet.
Defecating in the street, spitting, eating on the MTR, jaywalking, smoking in toilets and other rude or uncivilized behavior should be policed more vigilantly with heavier penalties imposed.
Instead of the newly introduced "national education" program, the Hong Kong government should consider introducing an "etiquette program" for all offenders.
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I'm tired of your BS, Joanne, so I'm not going to be so nice in this post.
"Do you think Hong Kong can live without China?"
That's exactly the attitude that is getting you into trouble. I raised the point that many Mainlanders think they own the place and treat HKers like crap because of this exact attitude, and this is your response, proving you are just another moron who acts like this, and deserves to be "discriminated" against. Regardless of this, China also can't live without HK, e.g. the FDI tunnel or the HKex, as I have already pointed out but you chose to ignore.
"All gaz have said is that some of us did something wrong, so we all deserve to be treated badly in Hong Kong."
Nope, did not say that, you are lying or you can't read. I said that idiots should be treated like idiots, and it doesn't matter where they are from. So stop lying and/or and work on your comprehension skills.
"Can you read Chinese?"
Yes, I'm a translator. Can you read English? In any case, my Chinese is better than your English judging from your comprehension skills in this thread.
"How many mainlanders do you know?"
I have plenty of mainland friends who I keep DAILY contact with, and I'm the first one to stick up for them whenever they are discriminated against, which does indeed happen sometimes. But that rarely happens, I don't keep friends who are just plain dumb and uncivil, when they come to visit me in HK they never seem to have any problems with discrimination like you, go figure.
"can they write colum on the newspaper in any way they want to cater to someone like gaz? can they fabricate stories on the internet to arouse hatred against us? "
Like the way you are fabricating posts about me to suit your political agenda? Anyway, it wouldn't work, because you see, I need multiple verifiable sources for things to become "fact", unlike you who it seems just needs CCTV or the people's daily.
"Some of your topics are too political and I think it has nothing to do with discrimination and you just tried to vent your baised political view points here."
Nope again. I'm raising actual points, none of which you have addressed. But anyway, while on the topic of politics, perhaps you haven't caught on yet, but in the rest of the world most people are not afraid to discuss political issues and relate them to how they affect us in our daily lives, just because you don't like it does not mean that they are "discriminating" against you.
"Have you even been to those places?"
Yes, I lived in Mainland China for 6 years and have lived in all the places I mentioned.
"For example, why you claim that till now mainlanders still love mao?"
Because they do, that's why you see so many pictures of Mao hanging from the rear view mirrors in cars in China. That's also why you can go on to MOP or other Chinese forums and look at how many people are calling for the return of Maoist policies and see how many people love "grandpa Mao". Or you could just talk to people on the street. Or perhaps look at how much support Bo Xilai got from the public in his city. Or maybe you could go to Beijing and visit the man's mausoleum and see how many people to this day go and visit it with tears in their eyes. But I guess you don't even know your own country as well as I do, or perhaps you are just running away from the truth. Ouch, hurts doesn't it? Time to take off your rose tinted glasses and become real, live, thinking human being, instead of a dim-witted robot.
"How blacks was treated in Guangzhou? why you give comments without any supporting examples?"
Because it is such a well known situation that I don't need to. I lived there for quite a while and saw it first hand, perhaps you could go there one day too if you want to know. Or, again, you can just jump on any Chinese forum and ask what everyone thinks about Blacks. But you know what, I'll google that for you because you don't appear to be able to do it yourself:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=discrimination+against+blacks+in+guangzhou
"as far as I know, in China we always treat people from other nations very politely and kindly"
Well, you would think that, wouldn't you. Because in your view, Chinese never do anything wrong and never treat anyone unfairly (even though I have provided plenty of examples in this very thread regarding Uighurs and Tibetans, which you choose to ignore). You see, this is the first sign that you are racist, because you put your own race so high up that you believe that anything they do is inherently right, or excusable, because they are your own race.
Perhaps the reason so many people "discriminate" against you is not because you are Chinese, not because you speak Mandarin (Taiwanese have no problems with discrimination in HK, why do you think that is?), perhaps it is because you are simply a bigoted racist yourself who thinks that mainland Chinese should be able to do whatever they want to whoever they want and you think that any opposition to that is "discrimination".
If you don't want to be treated like an idiot, don't act like one. And if you do continue being an idiot, at least realize that people treat you like an idiot because you ARE an idiot and it has nothing to do with your race, as I have said over and over again but you choose to ignore it, and you choose not to challenge any specific points that I make but rather use ad hominem attacks and take things out of context.
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mmm... education is the key. =/
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=401155673280528&set=a.137972339598864.26319.136650126397752&type=1&ref=nf
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I go to China a lot and I love it there .. the people the culture ...but when they come to Hong Kong they lower the class of this place ... go check out Hung Hom station some time or the hotel lobby's of some of the cheaper hotels
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It has been my observation that many mainland Chinese are hypersensitive to racism, almost paranoid about it. They love use the "race card" so to speak.
Joanne is a classic example. Another example is the 16 year old Olympic swimmer Ye Shiwen. After Ye broke the world record by a large margin, and swam a faster split than the top man, many people started to question whether of not she was "doping". The typical chinese response to that acusation was "racism", which is complete non sense.
In the 90s, more than 50 Chinese swimmers have tested positive for doping. Seven were caught by a surprise test at the 1994 Asian Games in Hiroshima, Japan. One swimmer, Yuan Yuan, was caught with 13 vials of human growth hormone at the 1998 world championships in Perth, Australia. A former chief doctor for the Chinese gymnastics team told the Sydney Morning Herald last week that in the 1980s, it was state sponsored.
China has an incredibly long and documented history of doping in the sport of swimming.....than a young 16 girl crushes a world record swimming a faster split than the top male so accusations start to fly. That seems somewhat logical to me, but if you ask most chinese it is racism. All articles I have read in the Chinese media fail to mention the past history of Chinese cheating in swimming and only focus on western jealousy or race. The acusations made towards this young chinese girl aren't because she is chinese, it is because her country has such a long history of cheating in swimming.
My point is that it is important to understand that many chinese don't think like us. Many are very sensitive about race and feeling inferior. Joanne is certainly one of them, and the olympic swimming controversy displays that as well.
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I can empathise that being discriminated against is unfair, since Joanne does not act or bahave in ways HKers deem to be unacceptable.
However, For the past 3 years of being in HK since moving from the UK, where I grew up, I have personally experienced unfcomfortable encounters with mainlanders.
For example, a couple asked me for directions in mandarin at the MTR station, although I know my Mandarin is basic (being from the UK), I tried my best to offer my help, upon replying, I was interrupted by the woman mid-drift in 'Cantonese', "Wah, you are a Chinese but speak Mandarin so bad.." I was gob-smacked and it infuriated me how someone can ask for help and yet be so rude and impolite to the person who's trying to help, the fact that she spoke Cantonese as well, was there some deliberate intent?!
Another time, I queued for a taxi and waited in an orderly line for at least 10mins, when my cab came, a group of mainland women just sprung from out of the blue to commandeer the vehicle like a heist.
Queueing is clearly not something a lot of mainland Chinese people are accustomed to, where there's an opportunity it's common to see them sneak in.
The other day, a mother let her child pee on the MTR against the door, inside the carriage.
I'm not generalising, I've good friends from China, but after experiencing 1st hand, my impression is that some people have an obvious lack of repect for HK and it's people.
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unattended bag, you are the worst racist I have ever met! Because you said we think differently and implied we are cheated in our mind! How can you described our common shared value as something like cheating! We have never cheated anyone for god's sake. Who took away Hong Kong from us, after all???
You should be happy for us, for we learn that in some part of the world, people are actually discriminate against each other from western countries, especially racial discrimination is not such a serious problem in China, right? All westerners are treated with such kindness and politeness in China. We are never aware that people can discriminate us so deeply until we come to Hong Kong!
I have been to many other countries, and lived in NYC for several years. I have never been treated so poorly. Actually I think in New York, no one talk like you. You will end up in regretting your words, a lot.
My experience about discrimination against mainland Chinese in Hong Kong is shared by many people who have similar stories. I can tell you countless daily life stories like that. Every time I speak English, I get better service. Even when I complained something to the police department, the officer would ask me which language I was using. If I speak Mandarin, I am always treated differently and sometimes very cold and rude. And I can be even wronged by some people. Like once, when one Hong Kong boy wanted to play with my kid, the mother even threatened him we were abductors! Simply because we speak Mandarin! This experience has nothing to do with the story you depict about Chinese swimmers, which might not be true. After all, a lot of swimmers won gold medals afterwards and even hong kongers are so proud of them.
I just don't get it, when they seem to care so much about the poor and weak in mainland China, why they treat those who come to build Hong Kong and who come to revive the economy with such disdain and even hateful words?
That's also what I gradually understand, westerners and people from all parts of the world gain more negative impressions about mainlanders since they come here. They might not discriminate against Chinese before they come to Hong Kong, or even have favorable impression about China if they love Chinese culture, but who can resist Hong Konger's negative depiction about mainlanders day and night? Maybe you call this first hand, but most are really rumors!
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I often use Mandarin as a way to communicate with some people here in Hongkong, those who don't really speak English. In fact, they always treat me very nicely. No problem. No complain. No one has ever treated me wrongly, very cold and rude just because I speak Mandarin to them. They don't get offended just because I speak Mandarin to them. I'm sure it's all a matter of how you behave toward them. If you show them friendliness and kindness, they will be friendly and kind to you. If you smile to them, they will smile to you. If you make them feel being respected and appreciated as individual, they will respect and appreciate you too. If you think good of them, they will also think good of you. But if you are showing grumpiness toward them, then expect that they will also act with grumpiness toward you. If they are rude to you, you only have yourself to be blamed. I suggest you have a good reality check on yourself because people in Hongkong are mostly friendly and helpful despite their very hectic lifestyle. I have been living here for more than a decade, I have absolutely nothing to complain about Hongkong people. I must say that Hongkong people behave so much better and more intelligent than those in big apple. Trust me. I have spent most of my adult life over there and I don't feel proud of it.
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