Posted by
sukosuko1
13 yrs ago
I've heard from my teenager that esf students are buying drugs from an adult dealer somewhere around stanley beach. I've just talked to the stanley police station but they need more info. If anyone can ask their teen and find out the nickname or location or description of this man please post on this board. Regardless of your views on casual drug use it is doesn't seem like a good idea to have these types of people in stanley.
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how about moving students to a beach in thailand, they would enjoy that? everyone knows people buy drugs in wanchai or TST, I think people would just like to keep this out of residential neighborhoods.
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Are you saying TST and Wan Chai aren't residential?
I agree with nw's sentiment. Your post makes it sound like drug dealing is ok, but not in a place like Stanley.
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please ignore argumentative posts about this important real-life issue...thx. I'm guessing a few wealthy expats that got stoned at university think its fine for 12 year olds to take ketamine. Regardless of your views, the penalties in Hong Kong are insanely draconian compared to western countries, 3 years for possesion, 10 years for distribution. A few years ago a 16 year old australian boy was sent away for 9 years. Call the police drug hotline at 2527-1234 if you have any details of name/description/phone number of any dealers and they will track them down.
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Maybe parents could also be questioned as to why their children are buying drugs. Perhaps there is something wrong with them mentally or their home life is lacking.
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As hello people says, kids will find drugs if they want to regardless of where they are sold. I wouldn't want illegal drugs to be sold anywhere but the problem isn't really the dealers. It is the buyers.
Just like nw I wasn't trying to be argumentative and I read the initial post in the same way he/she did.
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so you 2 propose to allow to bring 'the wire' to every corner in hong kong?
I know the intellectual/logical view carried by 'the economist' and elsewhere is to liberalize drugs, both logical extremes don't work and society has to take a stance in the gray area somewhere.
I've found out from esf that the police are already all over the problem. a 16 year old boy was deported 4 weeks ago for buying in stanley. nw seems to have a mathematical mind so please feel free to extraplote for everything in between that and strapping heroin to your body. My point is that the rules do apply to foreigners. The police are actually much stricter and more vigilant in other residential areas of hong kong where is why they need some nudging to take action where all the rich kids with family lawyers to protect them hang out.
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sukosuko1, if the objective is to crack down on drugs, then getting all holier-than-thou with people who point out a flaw with your initial post is not the way to go about things. And then you go and say things like "the rich kids with family lawyers". That won't win you a lot of friends.
For the record, I basically agree with your stance. From where did you get that I am an intellectual who wants to liberalize drugs?
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I can't make heads or tails of what suko just wrote.
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but the problem isn't really the dealers. It is the buyers.
I don't agree that the problem is all with the buyers.....these people are not called drug pushers for nothing. They are in business and so will do certain things to ensure their business and demand for their product. If there were no dealers most kids who are taking would channel their energies elsewhere.
Perhaps there is something wrong with them mentally or their home life is lacking.
Gosh this is harsh, as good a parent as one tries to be sometimes children will go off the rails. There are so many stories where you have one child in a family that has gone off the rails whilst the other ones are normal, so how do you pin that one of the family, home life if they are mentally normal? It's just one of those things I think.
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teens are buying drugs from people all over hong kong. there are plenty of drugs in hong kong. my daughter and son went to an esf school. there were drugs avaiable from students in the school as well as connections outside the school. this will forever be the case. here and elsewhere in the world. there are drugs and drug dealers are everywhere. some of those people prey on kids because they know they are young, curious, impressionable. its not a pretty senerio. talk to your kids. be approachable. lead by example. communicate clearly.
and be aware. i personally would not want someone that is dealing drugs to find out that i, or worse yet my child, had anything to do with their demise.
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everyone keeps harping on the current trendy view...buyers are the problem, not dealers,etc...i was just trying to deal with one dealer selling stuff to 14 year olds.
Anyways, to keep the conversation thread going... hong kong does seem to indeed have a quite liberal view. There is a shop in stanley that sells weed, the police watch it 24 hours a day... and seem to be tolerate it. I guess in some ways this is more reassuring than having a strungout desperado dealing it. I guess the kids are just taking a gamble on not being at the wrong place at the wrong time whenever the next police crackdown occurs. (hence the family lawyer comment.)
The illegality does indeed make it more exciting to the teens. the streets are not filled with teens sniffing paint thinner perhaps for that reason. it would make sense it it was treated as a simple public health problem instead of a criminal problem, has full legalization ever been carried out in any country?? i can't think of anywhere.
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"there are so few drugs in hong kong," Madtown, are you serious?
There is a huge drug problem in Hong Kong, you don't see it because the majority is in the local community not the expat community (apart from the odd bankers snorting coke). What about the rehab centres out on the islands, full of kids? Have you not see the anti-drugs posters and banners all over HK?
Selling to expat kids is, and has long been, a favoured route for the local pushers as they are seen to have ready money supplied by their "rich expat" parents. They are also as madam x says young, curious and impressionable.
Suko's original post may not have read with the intention that she meant, but yes, she raises a good issue. How do we stop this insidious problem in order to protect our kids? If we know where dealing is happening (whether it be Stanley, Wan Chai or TST) then surely we should do what we can to stop it.
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madam x, lagrue... i agree with what your saying. its expected for teenagers to be exposed to these things and we just have to equip them to be ready and hope they make it through the process ok. they are young, curious and these things are exciting. how to prevent 17 year old kids from influencing kids as young as 11 & 12 at esf secondary is a discipline problem for the school though. i think those kids are the target of the expulsions. anyways the headmasters have decades of experience handling this each year so hoping they know what to do. I'm just venting my frustration here and an insolvable problem.
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'buyers are the problem' is not a current trendy view but a simple reflection of economic fact; without demand there is no supply.
the demand does indeed come from curiosity as mentioned earlier but there is also a great deal of peer pressure combined with lashings of youthful confidence/arrogance leading to the belief that they will never get hooked and can control themselves. the first drugs they acquire will invariably be free from a friend who has a vested interest in them getting hooked and then making enough profit to feed their own drug or spending habit. you only need to look at the newer designer drugs on the market that are intended to create an addiction immediately, thus saving the expense, and possible failure, of getting someone hooked and dependent on your supply. heroin as an example was developed along the lines of opium - morphine - heroin 1 - 2 -3 - 4; the intent being to make it more addictive and not to provide better quality!
sadly, the more we fight the dealers the more expensive the drugs become and the more lucrative the market.
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Some ESF schools have long been notorious for drug abuse. A certain institution on the south side of the island used to have a sort of "lounge" where the students went to use. HKIS also had a serious issue with narcotics in the late 90's, until they imposed mandatory random drug screening within the student body - which i'm all for, school testing would stop abuse. Although the testing would have to be done in a far more competent manner than the laughable scheme put forward by the HK government scheme last year (and have a better track record of not providing false-positive results), taking a hair sample (from any part of the body) would give you the narcotic record for the individual being tested for many months prior to the test (even if the substance being abused is a water based soluble, like Ketamine or Cocaine).
there also needs to be serious education. "Just say no" is fine and dandy, but it didn't really work for Nancy Regan, and it probably won't work here. However, if you told students about the results of, for example, ketamine use, and how they are slowly collapsing their bladders, will destroy/burn out their brain's pleasure centers, and will most likely suffer from severe psychiatric issues later in life, you'd probably see a complete collapse of massive horse tranquilizer abuse.
@mrcynic - Wouldn't really call Heroin a "designer drug." I assume you're referring to things like MDMA (ecstasy)? But that's not really a "designer drug" either - it was first synthesized by a Merk scientist in 1912... that would be like calling penicillin a designer drug, it was synthesized in 1928. In fact, i take serious gumption with the term "designer drug" as it implies a degree of perceived "safety" which may be contributing to the abuse of narcotics by HK youth. They are drugs. pure and simple. misleading media terms and faulty language only exacerbates the issue.
@sukosuko1... A pot shop, in stanley? you sure about that?
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mayo
13 yrs ago
Combination of lack of parental supervision and an abundance of money to burn is a dangerous recipe.
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scrugby, sorry for not being clearer. when i said designer drugs i was referring to the shift to mainly synthetic drugs rather than naturally occurring ones. the new drug 'oxi' is a classic example and i would suggest that 'crack cocaine may be considered another. the heroin reference was an attempt to show that the dealers/traffickers are always trying to increase the possibility of addiction. sorry about your serious gumption, but i have a different perception of designer drug, and it in no way implies safety. i personally think all designer goods are manufactured to stoke demand and the use was to highlight the intent of the drug manufacturers to create dependency and gtreater profits. sorry if my wrong choice of words upset you and misled; not my intent.
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Very sad and scarey article from Australia yesterday...
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/lifematters/do-you-know-what-your-daughters-doing-tonight-20110629-1gqda.html
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Too much of Daddy and Mummy's money plus too little of Daddy and Mummy's time = trouble for any teenager.
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interesting message by Nhoj_71... I have seen a lot of very permissive parents here and the wealthier the parents the more neglected the children in a lot of cases. perhaps boarding school is better training for the real world than staying at home for the children with credit cards, drivers and domestic helpers? I've seen a lot of young adults I knew who grew up in these families unable to hold a job as adults and just disappear from the radar screen. yes, as scrugby mentioned, they need to show the kids some real life examples of psychiatric problems serious drug use can cause instead of 'just say no'.
The ESF does have many students who do fantastically well, from what I've seen they have a larger number of students going to oxbridge & ivy league universities than other more expensive schools, so I think this problem is still a small subset of students and the same at every other school.
I'll track down the shop selling weed in stanley and confirm if this is the case... we can't stop it, but we don't want it to be too open either and let the kiddies think this is mainstream behaviour for preteens.
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Many years ago, my son then 14yrs started to mix with a group of less than desirable boys at school, his reports went on a downward spiral, and instead of wearing his school uniform properly, he looked scruffy--shirt half in half out, and his school tie with the knot halfway down his chest.
He was always arguing with us about wanting to stay out late, and his 'bad' mates started to harass us if we brought him in.
I found out he had been smoking 'pot' on a regular basis for a few months, one of his mates stole my duty free cigarette(about 800) to sell and fund some more pot,that is how I found out.
My reaction, I called our local police station, they had been doing a campaign for just this kind of thing, and offered help. Their special 'drugs team' PC came out and gave my son one hell of a lecture, it really scared him, and this PC kept in touch for some months.
Then, I went into his school the next day to speak to the headmaster, I told him exactly what was going on, and the action I had taken. They agreed to work with the special PC, and the pot smoking was stopped straight away.
Whenever a relative rang me, I told them what my son had been doing, that hurt my sons feelings a lot, his grandparents, aunties and uncles knowing.
I expect you call this tough love, but it worked, and my sons grades improved at school, finally gaining 8 GCSE A levels.
He is now 31yrs old, and in a very stable relationship engaged to be married next year, if I speak to him about naming and shaming him all those years ago he is glad I did it, because some of his less than savoury mates he has seen 'fall by the wayside" and not do so well in life.
We brought up 3 children, fostered many, had no helpers-because we were in the Uk, I stayed at home and looked after my children, with only my husbands Uk wage, we never had a lot of money to give to the children, they didn't have mobile phones or cars until they earned a wage to fund it themselves,
They are now healthy, happy adults aged between 35-39 years old. Tough love and hands on parenting works.
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Just a word of warning to parents.
There are Taxi drivers selling Class A drugs (coke, E's, K etc.) also. The buyer calls a number and places an order, the driver then sends a Text to the buyer along the lines of "Your taxi booking is accepted, Taxi Number XX000 will be at your location in X minutes".
Keep an eye out...............
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^I will be keeping an eye out... for getting that number.
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Home schooling just keeps looking better and better, all the kids I've met here who do correspondence school and are part of fun youth groups and sports clubs seem so much healthier and calm in spirit than these strung out teens who need to do drugs to keep excited and feel interested in life and fit in.
My own two cents, parents need to give a crap about their kids and yes educate them if they are going to choose school. And take time to find out who their friends are, let their friends come over, be IN their lives. I have younger kids and their dad homeschools them for now. They have loads of friends and activities to do to keep them busy. Fighting for your kids means you will have to fight with your kids at some point! I'm amazed when parents refuse to fight with their own kids and choose the permissive easy road.
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Susie1. this is exactly what we are doing, thanks for sharing your experience as sometimes one can't be sure what the right thing to do it. I think a few troubled kids want to pull their schoolmates into their problems and can be very persuasive. a bit of shame & blame may be be required even though it doesnt feel like a cool parents thing to do. momof2boys this is a great idea, i have heard positive things about homeschooling, my child already totally changed after 3 weeks of being out of school. the real world is probably a lot more like home and neighborhood then the bubble of secondary school.
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From what I've seen in the Stanley area...western kids just roam the streets like they own the place, mummy and daddies money spewing out of their back pocket, yelling, being rude and arrogant. And on top of that they want drugs...trying to copy mummy and daddies habit I'd say. Surprise, surprise. You reap what you sow. And people want to blame innocent hard working drug dealers. Unbelievable.
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kids dont buy ketamine in stanley they only buy weed. only the triads that hang around stanley do ketamine and they dont sell that to the kids. they are actually very nice people
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Peds
11 yrs ago
"And people want to blame innocent hard working drug dealers. " - wtf to that statement.
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Remmy
11 yrs ago
Meanwhile Starbucks openly sells coffee to schoolkids in Stanley, some as young as 10...
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Ed
11 yrs ago
You hit the nail on the head with that Remmy... and we wonder why kids need Ritalin to help them focus in school...
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Remmy
11 yrs ago
Yip - Ritalin is another example. There is an absolute Ritalin epidemic in the US. Its HUGELY over prescribed for American's looking for quick fixes for their kids. And all legal of course. And companies making billions of the sale of it.
And yet the black guy, smoking a bit of weed, as opposed to the brat from the white rich family taking Ritalin - well he gets arrested in thrown in jail. Although Obama is addressing that now...
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Drugs in HK are easy to get. So many people here order through a central taxi number. Put your order in and 10 minutes later a taxi turns up with the stash. Payment made & off you go.
Not good, but a very very open secret here. Am sure all the HKIS kids have the number....
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@ hellopeople, not just western kids...there are many badly behaved CBC, ABC ect....and the only thing thats unbelievable is your ridiculous statement "And people want to blame innocent hard working drug dealers. Grow up!
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Remmy
11 yrs ago
nttaipei - you say its "not good", but actually, provided the quality is OK, this is actually a very convenient service for people who want to purchase or drugs.
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Peds
11 yrs ago
Reading this thread and seeing comments about INNOCENT, HARD WORKING drug Dealers, and the convenience of purchasing drugs.. what the hell is wrong with you people. Drugs does no good to anyone in anyway and yet you tend to promote it? sheesh! Am not thinking twice if you yourselves are users/dealers.
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Have you guys heard of the word "sarcasm"? I think that was used in the comment regarding dealers...Apparently not all know how to see it in text!
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One of the greatest misconceptions about the entire drug trade is that they need to be 'pushed.' Absolute BS! The whole notion of a drug pusher is utter fallacy.
Drugs sell themselves. No dealer ever sold to someone who didn't want what they were selling. They'll ask you if you want anything, then when you say "No, thanks," they completely disappear.
Drug dealers exist, because there is a niche for them to exist. If people didn't want to get f**ked up, then you wouldn't even be able to buy alcohol.
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Remmy
11 yrs ago
Exactly - the term "drug pusher" is mainly nonsense. They are usually dealers who satisfy demand. The biggest actual "pushers" are Starbucks, the tobacco companies, and the alcohol companies who spend HUGE amounts pushing their drugs.
As for dealers, look a the risks they take to provide drugs to those who want them. You have the people who ship them in, some on or in their bodies (risking death and long sentences), you have the larger scale suppliers at risk or large sentences, you have the smaller time guys selling to end users, always at risk of a police arrest. Not an all an easy job, given the downside risks.
Peds, as for drugs doing people no good, that is also a nonsense statement. For many users, drugs provide a lot of pleasure and enrich their lives. Most people who use extacy, cannibis, or cocaine for example will testify to that. Using the term "drug abuse" to discribe any type of use (often done by the media and by biggots) is another nonsense term, as it assumes that all use is "abuse" which is not. There are some drugs which the term is appropriate for, tobacco being one of them, as any degree of consumption is inherently an abuse, but this is not necessarily the case for all drugs.
Further, who are you, or who is the goverment for that matter, to dictate what things a free person in society should be permitted to ingest, be it chocolate cake, chicken, coffee, marijuana, alcohol etc etc. The key to all of this is EDUCATION. Legalize it all, ensure a safe consistent supply, and educate to enable people to make wise choices.
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^ Agree fully with all Remmy said above.
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Peds
11 yrs ago
The pushers are just innocent and its up to the individual if he buys or not?!?! that fact that you have drugs in your possession may you be pusher or not is a crime by itself.
The term Pusher is because you "push" the drugs to the person, and as you guys said its up to the person of he wants it or not. so the term pusher still prevails. its not nonsense.
Remmy, of course obviously the Drug users would experience pleasure when taking drugs, why would they use that in the first place. but in the long run come'n lets not be ignorant on the long term effect of these so called momentary/temporary pleasures/high.
Just to clarify, the drugs that we are talking about there are the prohibited drugs, why would label then as prohibited if they have no negative effects to one's body and specially behavior.
Comparing drugs to chocolate cake, coffee, chicken?. of course these FOODS do have negative effect to the body in the long run, but comparing them to prohibited drugs is a misnomer, and suggesting to legalize these types of drugs? i know for a fact that some countries do legalize the use of cannabiz/marijuana. but for ICE and other types drugs? and by the we we are in hong kong, i may not be aware as i dont think there are any movements to legalize the use of prohibited drugs.
Would anyone do harm to anybody over a chocolate cake / chicken? i don't think so. even how much you educate on how to use drugs?
since you may be an expert to this, would you be able to cite some examples on how to properly use drugs?
also maybe you can express your idealistic sentiments to the governments who have a heavy penalty for prohibited drug related issues, or maybe yet, to those parents or families who have been destroyed by drugs use.
as such i've just stated my piece as a reply for your idealistic expression over my nonsense point of view over drug pushing/using and would no longer have no further replies..
maybe you can start a movement about it here in hong kong along with who agrees with you and lets see where would be able to go from then on..maybe you can have your ideas be a reality by being able to legalize drug use and properly educate people about it. Best of luck!
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Say what you will about "drugs”, but when it comes to drug abuse there is nothing uglier than an abusive drunk and time spent in prison for committing a "drug" crime is far worse than the effect of the drug itself. Legalize them and if people want to mess their heads up it's their business and none of yours.
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It all comes down to property rights. Do you own your body? If so, then you should be able to do whatever you want to it.
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somedude1 seems to know whats happening. Apparently the police tolerate the triads selling weed in Stanley but not harder stuff. I called the police hotline last year and they said they are "aware" of the situation and seemed to suggest they do some bust and arrest people there once or twice a year. Whatever unlucky international student there at the wrong time is normally arrested and deported, I know of one family that had to return to their home country because of an arrest.
I'm guessing a lot of people ranting about free rights are in denial over their own alcohol or drug use. Taking their free rights argument to the extreme, we should offer heroin to 10 yr olds and let them decide? I'm fine for adults to do anything they want but where do we draw the line with children? i'm guessing people who don't have kids will say its all up to the parents haha.
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I do wish they wouldn't sell booze to students at the 7/11... can children buy alcohol in Europe? I agree the US rules are far too extreme...Europe does seem more sensible and more focused on treatment. Russell Brand does have sensible views on treatment for drug use that seem to be taken seriously in the UK.
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"Taking their free rights argument to the extreme, we should offer heroin to 10 yr olds and let them decide?" No one is suggesting this any more than allowing a 10 year old to drive a car, (own a gun or vote if you are from the U.S.).
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Remmy
11 yrs ago
sukosuko1 - you write about "alcohol or drug use" as though there is a distinction. There is not. Both are drugs, and indeed alcohol is one of the more harmful and destrutive drugs that many humans chose to take. Certainly there are many many more alcohol and tobacco related deaths than there are marijuana related deaths.
As for "offering heroin to a 10 year old" this is nonsensical, unless perhaps the child was in extreme pain (eg immediate aftermath of a severe accident) and needed such medication (administered by a medical). The point is not about forcing anyone to do anything, but rather allowing people free choice and liberty of their own person. Again, as I have said before, the key is education. If I had a 10 year-old, I would teach him to be very aware of the things he chooses to do to his body, and the risks and implications. This could apply to the sports he plays, the hobbies he has, the food he consumes, etc etc. With regard to the drug alcohol, I might be inclined to allow my boy a small sip of beer of wine if he was curious, explaining the importance of moderation, and encouraging him to learn the pleasure of the taste of the wine on his palate. If he was curious about chocolate cake, or a mcdonald's big mac, I would probably allow him to try it, perhaps with an explanation about any possible risks/downsides. Same if he wanted to try a starbucks coffee, or a CocaCola. Its very hard to "ban" things like this outright. The best you can do is educate and produce a child that ultimatlly will make responsible and sensible decisions.
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I totally agree with that, what 'Remmy' writes here. Seems to me, that most of the people have their knowledge about drugs from sensational newspaper reports and do nopt think any further.
Drugs will create problems, especially the addictive ones. However, there will always be a demand, and as long as this exists, drug cartels get rich, and the lonely user has no other way to slip into crime to satisfy his needs. Drugs like cannabis and marijuna are definitely less dangerous than alcohol, but still they are prohibited whilst alcohol is allowed and easily availale for everyone, no matter of what age.
There is only on way to solve the problems: Legalize it. Supply the drugs via official centres, users need to be registered and the purity is controlled. That's how to stop illegal trafficking, take away the big money from the cartels and keep the users out of crime.
Let's face it, drugs will be present everywhere at every time. Dealers arrested by police are replaced by new dealers within minutes, places known to be hot spots for buyers will be somewehre else when police raids them.
Parents should educate their kids about drugs in order to minimize abuse, Susie1 has written down a very good example how it can be done. Some harsher methods might help too, such as a visit in the clinics were the wrecked drug abusers are being hold, just to show the kids how they might end up......
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In case parents are suspecting their kids having drug issue, best is to collect evidence rather than direct confrontation with no proof.
One should get full knowledge on how they get the drug, which friends of the kid is having the same problem...and seek expert advise on how to delink from the bad social circle.
There are a few private investigator who can help.
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Came across this article today: HOW TO SAFELY BUY ILLEGAL DRUGS ONLINE IN HONG KONG
https://hkpinfo.wordpress.com/
(no I didn't search for it, someone was spamming it on Facebook).
But anyway, what do you think - a good thing or a bad thing? I've got mixed feelings on it - it would help keep it off the streets (and out of Stanley :P) which is a good thing, but maybe makes it easier to get hold of for kids.
EDIT: Not sure how Hong Kong Post would feel about their logo getting stolen, but I got a chuckle anyway.
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Everyone keeps harping on the current trendy view...buyers are the problem, not dealers,etc...i was just trying to deal with one dealer selling stuff to 14 year olds.
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Hello everyone , i think some political person n some powerful Hong Kong resident r connected with drugs dealers and they gets a huge number money from drugs dealer's .now gradually drugs spared al over the Hong Kong.
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to the Op,
if you have proof that the store is selling weed & the police are doing nothing about it, send the proof to me & my reporter friends would love to report about the shop on the newspaper.
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Hello@LATEX , i didn't say police don't do anything . Hk police is very active against drugs dealer's . I just wanted to say that drugs dealer's gets shelter and support by hk powerfull residents . I think that ....
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I was in the gym and saw that it was reported on the front page of a Chinese newspaper. I'm damn sure the cops will do something. Based on the photos, the dealers are South African with a big 50 cent old chain on their necks. Very ghetto!
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