|
Friday relationship musing
Posted by justin credulous (408 days ago)
I have a friend who, after a long dating drought, picked up a long distance realtionship. My friend is male...about the girl in question, she was visiting, they met, they "fell in love" and then she had to head back to her own country. She had a job that brought her to HK once every 2 months or something. So on they go into the whole LDR thing, hmm kay? I dont say anything negative to him about the LDR thing (oh, you know, all the obvious things) coz he's a friend and I want to be supportive. He mentions on and off he worries she may stray...I tell him that in order for a relationship to survive, you have to trust someone outright. Whats the point in being suspicious? If they are going to cheat, they will cheat. Where there is a will there is a way. Right?
Well, after 3 months of 8 hour Skype sessions, sky high phone bills, one more Long distance fly by love-in, they are having a casual chat and the topic of cheating comes up…and what happens? Gf fesses up to having slept with someone else. So my friend (being as this was part of the “what would you do if” and they both knew the answers) says, “Well, nice knowing you, have a good life!” then she’s all shocked that he’d dump her. This conversation wont be their last, she ends up calling him, pleading with him to forgive her…yadda, yadda, yadda…to which he’s like, errrr, no.
Then is becomes the ol turn it back around and start laying blame on the other party, she’s all “I thought you said you loved me!”
Now…I don’t know about you guys, but what in the hell is that supposed to mean??? If you loved me you’d forgive me? I mean, how daft is that? If the cheater knew that the cheatee loved them, that isn’t a license to ill!
If you want to go do the nasty at least have the decency to dump someone before you do. What? You want to have your cake and eat it WITHOUT getting fat as well? Cheating is easy, its knowing the reasons why you are faithful that is the hard part. But when you are that person who knows what you have and what you are willing to do to keep it…you are amply rewarded.
What have your experiences been like when finding out you have been cheated on? I’m with my friend on this, but then again…I think he was also beginning to get to that point where he felt they had little in common, that it was hard work…so letting go was easier. What do you think?
I got cheated on 2 years ago. Broke my heart when I was confessed to. All tears and "Please dont leave me". I was the one comforting him, for crying out loud!! Y'know? Sheesh...ofttimes ends up going kaput anyway. I personally wouldnt want to cheat on someone and expect to be forgiven, I am not sure I could respect them for forgiving me. Does that make sense? If you cant do the time, dont do the crime. Mutual respect, good communication, empathy...thats whats in the equation for a long lasting relationship.
(I am based in Iraq)
Posted by ..... (408 days ago)
To me, cheating is aboout a choice like most things in life. I have been married 7 years. Have I been tempted over the years? Yes. But I choose not to cheat on my husband for following reasons:
A. I love him and dont want to hurt him.
B. I know if he ever finds out, our marriage would be over, period.
C. Financially, being alone would not work at this stage of my life.
D. Cheating takes too much efforts, not enough reward.
E. My mama taught me better than running around behind my husband's back whom I promised to love and honor.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by justin credulous (408 days ago)
Excellent and well thought out, dotdotdotdotdot. Thanks for sharing! :o) I think far too many times people do something stupid and dont think about the consequences. Its when you hear the ol "I dunno, it just happened, it didnt mean anything!"
Eh...
lol.
(I am based in Iraq)
Posted by wakatipuqt (408 days ago)
it's one of those conversations to have right at the start of a relationship...some people don't regard monogamy as the be all and end all. you gotta hope they are straight up with their partner and honest with themselves if they have a tendency to stray...especially those peeps who have sown so many wild oats they could end famine in africa...sometimes old habits are hard to break...
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Pumpkin (408 days ago)
If I expect someone to be faithful to me, I too must be faithful to them. I know I can trust myself so I just give 100% trust on the other party and stress to them that my trust is their burden. I know (and they do) what I will do if that trust is broken - its my line in the sand. And then I don't think about it.
My energies are directed towards improving my relationship and not second guessing what my partner is upto.
2.5yrs long distance and still going.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by salubrious (408 days ago)
i'm a bit perturbed by ...'s reasoning point C).
Financial standing may afford the luxury of being more able to make the decision to go it alone based on the relationship facts only but I would hope it would not figure in a persons choice to cheat, the "oh well I can take the risk because if I get caught at least I'll be able to support myself".
Wakatipu QT (I always knew there was one): Surely if monogomy is way down the list such a person would find their partner(s) at 'alternative lifestyle' get-togethers so all would be above board from the word go?
Which night and where by the way?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Blood Diamond (408 days ago)
Cheated on before? Yes. Did I forgive him? Yes. Did he do it again? Yes, multiple times. Did I dump him? No, he dumped me at last.
Sounds ridiculously stupid isn't it? I was a lot younger and extremely innocent then, believing that if I was a devoted girlfriend, he would change. Nah! The experience has taught me to be a lot wiser, smarter, more confident and never take any nonsense from a man.
JC, I am glad your friend didn't take his LDR girl back.
(I am based in Singapore)
Posted by justin credulous (408 days ago)
Lol, I know the feeling Blood Diamond. When I got cheated on I heard the whole "It just happened" and then the additional tears and "Please, dont leave me!" And I was the one comforting that fool! *SMH* And yes, I got dumped a year after all that. Y'see? Its something to do with respect...
Hmmm, everytime you take someone back, things cant just go back to how they used to be, no matter how hard you try. If you want it to work, I guess you have to quit trying toget things back to the way they were but to forge ahead and make a different path...
>salubrious - well, money is a factor...I read this article the other day that said the divorce rate has gone down since the 70's when they were at their peak. They have gone down amongst more affluent households coz really...cheating and divorce simply does work out more expensive in that instance. Quality of life etc...yeah, why trade it in on a whim.
(I am based in Iraq)
Posted by salubrious (408 days ago)
sure, JC, ongoing provision for children for instance can be a burden (particularly for the poor ol chappie) but I took that point as to mean the poster was not sufficiently financially independant to support herself and hence would not risk being caught out.
I may have got the wrong end of the stick. It's a regular event.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by flashback (408 days ago)
You guys have nailed the equation. Cheating = loss of respect = doomed relationship.
A friend was cheated on by a fiancee... she took him back, and of course, was dumped... I suppose there are real cases of temporary insanity. This doesn't sound like it. Sounds like she was boasting to me.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by justin credulous (408 days ago)
Hmmm, not sure if the poster there was not financially independent...but looking at divorce payouts and costs, does it matter?
If a woman is dependent on a man then if her were to leave her high and dry, that would suck...so why would she go ahead and jeopordize her meal ticket by cheating?
The other way around, if a man is the bread winner and the woman has been the homemaker...assuming he has a lot to lose, if he goes and cheats, she could bleed him dry!
I reckon, instead of putting effort into chasing random tail, it makes more sense to put that effort into fortifying what you already committed to, or, as I said, if you find its not working, end it, pay the price and move on.
I think the reason a lot of cheaters who are forgiven and taken back into the fold end up leaving the forgiver is probably because they know if the shoe was on the other foot they may never forgive their partner. Its this guilt they live with and it rots in their chest like a cancer...day after day, they begin to resent the forgiver...and the forgiver too begins to doubt why they did it and their self worth...blah blah...
(I am based in Iraq)
Posted by ..... (407 days ago)
Salubious. You are right. The reason C is niether beautiful nor romantic. And I would imgaine if my husband thinks I dont cheat on him only because I am afraid that I will be left destitute, he wouldnt be handing out a gold star for remaining faithful to him. But having trashed my career over his, and I know I know I am the who made the choice, no one held a gun to my head, financial issues are very important. Early on, we have decided that it would be much more profitable for both of us in a long run if we put his career ahead of mine. Do I regret it? Sometime. Yes. I feel resentful that I left a thriving career behind me. I understand that love bring two people together and thats beautiful. But having marriage or any relationship work takes....work. For me, being a wife is also a job. Its a contract of some sort. We each have responsibilities and expectations to fulfill and we do so to the best of our abilities. Cheating goes against that. So I dont cheat. It is as simple as that. But I am also a realist. Although, my marriage is my career, I also work full time. I got a raise the other day. Now I finally make the same amount of money I used to make 8 years ago when I was single. So obviously, money isnt the only reason why I have refused to let me of my career completely. It addresses two important issues for me. By working, I still have a foot hold on my career. If I ever decided to fall head over heels in lust with a man 20 years younger, I will have some way to support myself. And it gives me a sense of control. This way, I am not completely dependent on my husband financially. However, I would not be enjoying the standard of living that I currently enjoy without his salary. I work hard at this relationship because I love him, I want what is best for us and I deserve to live well for the hard work that I do as a wife and a mother. So yes. Money is one of the reasons why I remain faithful. If anyone is offended by that, I am sorry.
By the by, there was an interesting article on MSN about how cheating in America is much more financially ruinous compared to the other cheating marriages in other parts of the world. French...well they dont cheat as often as we think they do. But when they do, discretion is valued above all else. Japanese have an institutionalized cheating mechanism in place and it is almost assumed that their partners will cheat in a long term relationship. But Americans ( and we are one), they cant bear the guilt, drive a car through the front lawn and confess every nitty gritty details of their mistakes. So which is better?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Meiguoren (407 days ago)
Bottom line is that cheating is unhealthy! Not only mentally and spiritually, but in a physical sense too! I recently read some frightening statistics about how many people have UNTREATABLE STD's. I don't want to repeat the number because my reaction was "that CAN'T be true." But the same article said that something like 70% of cases of gonorrhea in USA are now drug resistant. Nobody has mentioned this yet, but disease is another really good reason to stay faithful. Even HPV: do you really want it? Because if you've had casual sex even one time, you probably do.
But the older I get, the more I think the common attitude that "cheating is acceptable" reflects a profound moral bankruptcy and short sightedness where relationships are concerned. I find myself getting more and more conservative in this area.
I value my very special, very exclusive relationship with my spouse. I value his feelings, his trust, I value that we share things nobody else does. I value knowing someone so well and being so intimate in so many ways, knowing that I can trust him with my life and likewise he can trust me with his. This level of trust opens the door to a level of intimacy and joy -- and pleasure -- that I think "cheaters" will never experience.
And at this point, I've seen so much pain caused by cheating. Nothing worth having in life is free, including a relationship.
I also take a longer view of cheating. I don't see a huge distinction between cheating on a future spouse, the future hypothetical one, versus a present one. As someone mentioned on a different thread the other day, everyone you've ever been intimate with is in your memory bank somewhere and you can never put that completely out of mind or erase the experience. I prefer to keep my very special relationship with my spouse just that -- I don't want Tom and Dick and Harry in bed with me whenever I'm with my lover.
Call me old fashioned, I'm very liberated. And I'm very happy with my "old man".
On the other hand, to err is human, to forgive divine. I do hope that I'd be able to forgive and be forgiven if I ever fell short of the standard I've set for myself.
(I am based in Guangzhou)
Posted by dont know why (407 days ago)
Wow, that is a sweeping statment. So you are saying, if I have a drunken one nite stand with Tom, meet Dick next year then sleep with him too but falls in love with Harry five years down the road and marry him, I would have cheated on Harry with both Tom and Dick?
And Condom helps to prevent unfortunate STD transmissions. I dont know about HPV though. Its viral. So who knows.
I read that same article on MSN too. The gist is that cheating in the states is much more expensive because the cheater just cant keep its piehole shut from having been wrecked with guilt and is compelled to confess to the cheatee thereby bringing on slew of expensive counselling and mediation sessions followed by even more expensive divorce proceedings.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by salubrious (407 days ago)
wow, Dottie, well explained. Thanks for taking the time.
Humbly yours,
Sal
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by momo8.. (407 days ago)
On the other hand, to err is human, to forgive divine. I do hope that I'd be able to forgive and be forgiven if I ever fell short of the standard I've set for myself.
This is somewhat contradictory but the rest of your post was great Meiquren.In a relationship cheating is absolutely OUT.I think confessing to the deed brings pain and suffering to the chetee go to church and confess there.
What's the point of confessing just to salve one's conscience?Forgiving is one thing but forgetting is completely different.The trust is gone and that will undermine and ultimately destroy the relationship.Having Tom,Harry and too many Dicks in bed can't be healthy in a relationship.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by helenahk (407 days ago)
My musings on this topic are: Never say never. Is cheating an absolute nono, in all cases?
I am no fan of the sitcom "Friends" but I do remember this eposide where to his horror, Joey discovers his dad's been having an affair for over 10 years. After some long agonizing discussions wtih his pals he confronts his dad and later reveals this affair to his mom. Upon hearing this she's appalled;"You confronted your dad?!" Joey is puzzled;"Yes, of course, why, I did it for you!" She's annoyed,"Don't you think I knew. I've known it for years. It's perfect for us, I pretend I am deceived and he's always nice to me because of his guilt." Then she turns serious, "Listen, your dad had been very unhappy and this woman has made him happy. I love him and I know he loves me too. I don't mind seeing him happy if this is what does the trick."
Yeah, just tv I know, but who are we to decide all affairs are to be condemned? On that note, may I add that moral judgements over most situations are relatvie, depending on the context and social/cultural background.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by My Hong Kong (407 days ago)
Helenahk...you brought up an interesting point, but do you really believe that someone can be happy in a relationship in which the other partner is cheating?
"Listen, your dad had been very unhappy and this woman has made him happy. I love him and I know he loves me too. I don't mind seeing him happy if this is what does the trick."
Having such a degree of selflessness is unnatural and if you ask me...unhealthy. Someone who is willing to give up so much on themselves will never experience the same level at intimacy, closeness and joy that totally monogamous relationship can bring.
I happen to see many relationships in which one partner was sleeping around with various people for years and the other partner knew about it and chose to stay. It was far from perfect. The person who was cheated was “eaten” inside, but said...oh well...things can be worse. Well, things can also be better. :)
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by helenahk (407 days ago)
Ah, almost forgot the Clinton's. Remember the Lewinsky scandal? Everyone was saying she would leave as soon as his presidency was over but I knew she would stay---because that's how it has worked for them. They love each other, with her knowing he would always look elsewhere for sex and maybe more. Physical intimacy---and I am actually convinced they are intimate---isn't the focal point of the marriage; rather it's their shared politics/political ambitions and appreciations for each other's intellect that has kept the marriage goinng all these years.
Do I think Hilary is happy with Bill's liasions? No. Do I think it's great? No. But it's how it's worked for them and for many other couples too.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by momo8.. (407 days ago)
That's just saying they don't want to get divorced because of career/mortgage/kids/religion/politics whatever.Who cares about Bill and Hillary or Charles and Camilla or anybody else???
At the end of the day it's about being in a delusional comfort zone 'if it makes him happy' what codswallop!!!
Ok so one night stands can happen an affair is exciting but come on everyone deserves better and why should anyone compromise and hurt their partner for the sake of getting their rocks off??
It's very cut and dried to me...no bloody excuse in the world would be forgiven for cheating on someone you REALLY loved.
Their face would haunt forever with the hurt and anyone who is passionately in love with their partner would understand this.
Anyone out of love well go figure or go and buy a latex toy or a banana skin or something.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by justin credulous (405 days ago)
Bill and Hilary look at it as a political partnership/business. I mean, its pretty obvious she wants to be president...but what do you reckon the chances are for a divorced, female president? Pff...wouldnt work, right? She has her own agenda. I mean, do you honestly think they have a wild and active sex life? I highly doubt it.
Fidelity isnt about "really loving" someone and hence suffering guilt/avoiding guilt. If love were enough to carry us all through we'd be set! You can love someone one day and then loathe them the next and go back to loving them again. Hardly something you can expect to back you up for a lifetime! Fidelity has more to do with respect, for self and for the one you are with...or thats what I think anyhoooo.
(I am based in Iraq)
Posted by ..... (405 days ago)
JC, could not agree with you more re:fidelity and respect. I will go so far as to say if it is ok with both parties in a relationship to have other sexual partners, right on. But for us, that would not work because not only do we see fidelity as an intergral part of loving someone but respecting that person as well.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
|
