Honesty

Posted by ellascott (426 days ago)

Hi everyone

I have been living in Hong Kong for over a year now and my realationship with my husband has slowly been dying.

He constantly goes out to Wan Chai and I have now been discovering messages to and from other women. These messages sometimes say "you are sexy" etc. When confronted with this he is angry and tells me they are only friends. I told him he has to stop this and he always says he will but again I find messages.

Now I would not have so much of a problem if he did not keep it from me and if the content was friendly but I question if he is merely flirting.

How do I get him to be up front with me? I just want to get on with my life or get on with our life. Do you think it is fair to request someone does not go to certain bars and does not message certain people? Would you stop this if it hurt your wife?

Thanks I would appreciate any comments

Ella

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Find what you are after in our Hong Kong A-Z Directory

Posted by ayumi (426 days ago)

Ask him to take you to Wanchai and meet these so-called "friends". If it's all just fun, he shouldn't have a problem including you. Some nights out with his mates are not a problem, provided he is willing to meet you at some point, you could be out with your girlfriends, and catch up with him later in the evening.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by ellascott (426 days ago)

I have already been and seen these places and have not been introduced to any of the girls he has messaged in the past. The place he goes (yes on his own sometimes) is a pick up joint for old white guys. Am I just a stupid wife who needs to wake up?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by fennel (426 days ago)

Your husband is most probably going to Wan Chai to pick other women up. 'Old white guys' seem to think they are gods gift when they come here - they only need to look at themselves in the mirror to see their looks have not changed since they arrived here and normal women who are not after money would not look twice at them.
Tell him to stop making a fool of you and kick his sorry butt into the gutter (and take his money before someone else does).

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by momo8.. (426 days ago)

Definitely sounds like he's caught Yellow Fever! Amazing how perfectly normal foreign guys suddenly change overnite in HK.They start backcombing their hair,change their dress style,believe they are actually teenagers again,hang around bars...sigh...well Ella you have to get to the root of your problem and what's wrong with the marriage.
Confronting your husband hasn't worked and he is not prepared to put his cards down on the table and be upfront with you.He probably loves the attention he feels he's not getting at home.
You need to communicate how you feel to him.Why on earth does he hang around pick up joints?Why don't you plan some activities for both of you to do together that you both enjoy.
Other than that if all else fails set him up to see if he's really playing or just flirting.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (426 days ago)

Ella... I'm afraid your life will now never get 'back to normal'. The best you can do at this point is to reassess this situation here in Hong Kong. Do you have plans to return to your home country in the near future, or are you here for an indefinite stay?
Your husband is new to this whole experience, and needs to be wised up very soon by someone. Are there any male friends of longer standing here who can explain to your husband what is happening here, and what danger both he and you are in? Maybe a call to a counselling service, like St. John's relationship counselling is in order?
You need to do your best to look after yourself in all of this too. Perhaps some legal advice as well.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (425 days ago)

The lies are standard ones, which if you spend the time going through past threads, you will see the similarities and know that you are not nuts, you are not paranoid, he is simply a liar who is doing the dirty on you.

Question is, now that you know, now that you hear it...what do you want to do? Coz if you want to hear it from the horses mouth...dont expect that horse to ever fess up.

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by Blood Diamond (425 days ago)

Ella, I'm really sorry about what you are experiencing. In my opinion (and I am not saying you are), you should not keep harping or nagging your husband as it may drive him into "their" arms further. These ladies are experts in making guys like your husband think that he is the most handsome, most successful Mr Incredible That Could Do No Wrong. Besides Flash's advice on getting a guy buddy to help your hubby wise-up on this, you should also go out, take up new hobbies and be seen enjoying your life too. Maybe it will make it sit up and not take for granted that you will be waiting for him all the time?

(I am based in Singapore)

Posted by Sapphire (425 days ago)

Sorry to be blunt, but I think you already know that your husband is lying ... 'friends' indeed?! What wife would believe that ... or even put up with it?! He's taking you for a fool ... don't become one!

Even if, as he says, they are 'just friends', I'd still be pretty p****d o** if my husband was getting text messages from other women that I don't know, and who he refused to introduce me to presuming they were genuine friends.

The fact that he's obviously up to no good (proven by the text messages), you have every right to ask him not to go to these bars ... there's nothing fair or unfair about it. The difficulty is of course, that you won't know whether or not he's telling you the truth.

If you've had a good trusting relationship ship up until now, then hopefully by the two of you communication, you'll be able to get things back on track. Don't become a stay at home wife while hubby is out in Wanchai ... join him at his own game ... have the odd girlie night out with friends and meet up with him ... or arrange to meet him in Wanchai when he finishes work for a few drinks/dinner. Don't let it seem that you're checking up on him ... show him that you want to have some fun too. Why should you sit at home bored, waiting for him to come home, whilst he's out having a good time with the lads? ... That's when things can get out of hand. Nip it in the bud before it goes too far. Good luck!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by bandiet (425 days ago)

He has wised up -- that's why he's in Wan Chai. Sorry to not join the whole "oh you poor thing" hugfest, but maybe he's in Wan Chai because it's fun. If it wasn't fun the bars would be empty.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by fennel (425 days ago)

If hanging out with hookers and ugly white men is fun, then I think you need to get out more.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (425 days ago)

Well, maybe not wised up bandiet, but he's 'discovered' that what might have been regarded as a broken down old geezer (assuming he fits right in with most of the Wan Chai crowd) in the old country, is Mr. Desirable Sweetie Daddums here in the girdle of dreams... For some, sexual thrill with young brown flesh may be the apogee of their
existence, but many others learn rather too late the high price of indulging these fantasies... loss of a loving wife, respect of children, potential financial disaster, and perhaps later abandonment or fatherhood .... Is he really wised up?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by helenahk (425 days ago)

Yeah those dirty old men, they deserve nothing but the worst in the end. hehe...

You know, guys, I really think this is a bogus thread.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (424 days ago)

Well... helenahk... I think few people, if any, deserve the worst in the end. It would be nice if people acted out of their best selves more than their desires. We all have desires and fears which can be activated by stimulus or cultural trends/fads etc..

These aging men have death in the face, and often feel that they never quite have gotten everything they wanted out of life, and why not get it now before I throw in the towel... It's a sad attitude, and really a response to a lot of fears, and latent desires... I just wish more people understood themselves, and acted with an awareness of the consequences...

We all have wants and desires,but that doesn't mean they are good for us, or need to be acted upon. Men going through mid-life crisis are very vulnerable, and many people can be hurt by their actions if they do not understand themselves, and what is happening.

Maybe it's bogus... but this is a common story here.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by My Hong Kong (424 days ago)

Sorry dude, but when my husband cheated on me because men are men...or because he could...or because he gave a few dollars and got what he wanted...it hurt like hell. And I am sexy and smart and no...he wasn't confused and he didn't miss anything at home. It was just a case of 'let's have it all'. The wife...the family life...the home...and the mistress. So I left! Why would I accept something that hurts? And it does hurt to be cheated. How could I make love to someone...knowing he is touching other women? It's a total turn off.

And guess what, you don't have to accept and think...oh well...this is Asia, cause there is better...even in Asia!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (424 days ago)

I agree with you My Hong Kong... We can choose better than to do these things or to put up with abuse from others. I just am somewhat of the belief that a lot of this behaviour is encouraged by people saying things like: well, it's just Asia, or men, or the nature of the human beast... but we do have a conscience and I chose to use mine. I think that's not being sanctimonious, but ethical. If I act well, maybe I'll encourage others to as well... and not just encourage more dissolution in others..

But there has to be a way back... even for cads.... and getting over denial of responsibility is the first step... not just blaming human nature or the context, or others.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (424 days ago)

I agree with My Hong Kong, totally! Never feels good to get sloppy seconds, worse still if you know damn well what you are being served. YUCK!

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by WakeUp (424 days ago)

This is why most women are single....Unreal!!!! Never any trust for any guy you may meet. You think its easy for non yellow fever males to meet women????????? Not at all....Give me a non paranoid, trusting, faithful women and I'll give you a real loving, dedicated man....Yeah, right, Unlickely.................

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by ellascott (423 days ago)

Thanks for all your posts. I think deep down I know something is going on. But when you have loved someone for so long you want to hold on to them for as long as you can. I don't think there is anything wrong with me either. I am young, fit, and still very passionate after seven years with the man. Maybe he wants it all and then some :( I have done my best to talk to him about how I feel and have also suggested counseling but he does not want a bar of it. Anyway I know I am not the first or last to have this happen so I must now think of myself.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (423 days ago)

Ella, you are absolutely right not to blame yourself. It is this town. Hong Kong will find any weakness you have. It is the most challenging environment for a marriage. It does sound like he wants it all, and then some. Most of them do. Hong Kong tells them they can.

The feedback I've had about couples whose marriages survive Hong Kong is that many - funnily enough - divorce when they return to the home country. The wife can't get over what went down here.

Without being too negative, you are right to look out now for yourself. You've asked for counselling, he's refused. You've asked for understanding, he's been a deaf ear. Get legal advice now. If you are still unsure - and really feel you need to know - maybe a PI.

Maybe even the knowledge that you are getting legal advice may be enough to bring him to his senses.

The pain of betrayal is terrible. The effects of loss of a loved one are difficult to endure. Of course you love him. You wanted to save the marriage, but he is not jumping aboard. I really hope you can care for yourself now.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (423 days ago)

Oh hell no, dont go telling him you are getting legal advice! Next thing you know he'll wire all his money to somewhere in the Isle of Mann and claim to be broke when divorce and child support time comes around...Why threaten someone so they stay, right? Do you honestly think that will make him change his ways?

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by flashback (423 days ago)

Good point re: dispersal of assets risk. Best to get things underway pretty soon though. He sounds like he's fairly resolute, and may even be thinking of that already.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by momo8.. (423 days ago)

I also think you have been torturing yourself with this for too long and nothing so far has worked and this husband of yours seems totally insensitive as to how you are feeling.
Why not give him a little taste of his own medicine plot a little payback?A PI sounds a little extreme you just need to get those numbers and get some male friends to call them see who these 'friends' are.
So spyin isn't good some will say but so what?At least you will either catch him red handed or see if he's really telling the truth.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by bandiet (423 days ago)

Listen to these harpies -- he is probably messing around so don't do anything to alarm him, but start picking his pocket.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by amadeo (422 days ago)

Hi,

I would say the fact that it's true or not is not even the matter. He's not treating you right going there, with the messages, letting you think you are the crazy one... And on top of that, he is most probably cheating on you.

What I'm saying is, if it was in fact false, he should at least sense the urgency/importance of the situation for you and try to fix it. He's not doing that.

Easy for me to write this on an HTML page. Don't stay with him.

I agree with a previous poster, he's probably not used to having so much attention when going out and it drives him crazy. He needs to learn that, and he probably will, but I doubt your relation can go back to where it was. He's a changed man. I think living abroad changes a person.

Keep in mind that I don't know you and him I'm very much speculating, but that is my thoughts.

bye

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (422 days ago)

Harpies? Lol. Killin me softly, bandiet...Yer killin me softly, lol.

I stand by my posting though...I know a lot of good wife/mothers who have gotten royally shafted by manipulative, unscrupulous ex husbands.

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by sandiexxxx (422 days ago)

All the advice given here is valuable, wish I had listened. Had exactly same issue, lived all over the world, never a problem until we got here 10 years ago. just look after yourself, have him move out, start to get your life in order. He will get his wake up call one day, but please get your financial details arranged first. then : 1. get an AIDs test done. 2. Seek legal advice. 3. get documentation, I have private investigator if you need one, ( reliable and not mega expensive)
It hurts like hell, but trust me, have him leave now, is the best thing you can do for yourself, start looking after number one, which is you, you don't deserve this. Good luck.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (422 days ago)

Your advice is sound JC... Forgot about my own sister whose ex was driving around in a green rolls royce while claiming he had no money...Hid it all.. The rotter paid no maintenance because he wanted the children and wanted to stave her out to get them.

Harpies is really a very unfortunate word to use here, I think.

Sandiexxxx's advice is spot on. Very sorry to hear your story Sandie, wish I could say it was the first I've heard, but it isn't. Hope Ella takes your great advice to kick him out immediately while she can. We often hold out too much hope that these destroyers will come good.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by pathways (420 days ago)

Hi Ella
I am going through something very similar at present. one year HK 9 year marraige and the seduction of Hong Kong has transformed him. If you wanna chat let me know! From Pathways

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by you're joking (420 days ago)

i can't be bothered reading most of the replies here as they mostly seem to be negative towards the husband. from my experience.... and my maturity.... in life, let me say that you should support ur husband, understand him, look at life and at him and understand that i do not think he is bonking around but simply flirting and savouring the attention which no doubt he has probably never had before. u must take into account tat wanchai is a loser place mostly full of losers. and the pro's there are persistand conniving deceitfull harassers. he is caught into that scene now and will grow out of it. so relax and let him play the stupid game (i have been there) and get yourself an interest and let him know that u support him and look after him but will have ur life and wont put up with st*t. couldn't be bothered typing more but much more to say about this place and life!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (420 days ago)

Thats good advice too...thing is though, what if he doesnt grow out of it? You may have been the lucky one to get out when you learned the whole deceitful harassers thang...what if her hubby doesnt? Not all guys want to take off the rose tinted glasses. Unless she looks at him solely as a cash cow, why would anyone in their right mind put up with a skank like that? Love? What was that Don Henley song? Sometimes love just aint enough...

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by My Hong Kong (420 days ago)

I am a woman and I love attention from men and love to get physical with them sometimes...nothing serious...just for the fun. And I really do love my husband and I just don't get it why he doesn't understand that it's only human to want other men. I mean...it's biology. Women's role in the world is to breed and have as many offsprings as possible. Why my husband can't be patient and wait until I am over that phase of flirting with other men? Why? What a selfish man...god!

:)

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (420 days ago)

Yes.. right again JC and also you'rejoking. Human beings of the male variety do need a lot more watering than western women think they do... but that is not to blame ww for wanting a mature being by their side...

Yourjoking - you ought to post more. The voice of experience from the other side (presuming you did wise up and reclaimed your home territory) is needed.

Wish someone would write another story to challenge the stereotype of "The World of Susie Wong" which I read when I was 15 and which coloured my perceptions of the exotic and the seedy beyond my adolescent years....

.... But, until these guys wake up to the ultimate emptiness of that lifestyle, how can as JC says, a woman be expected to subjurgate her own life for someone who may always be a lost cause? Or who leaves her again... Why should she? It's the 21st Century afterall.

The truth is, like for alcoholics, most have to hit rock bottom before they see the light. The wife ought not to have to go down there too - she'd only soften the fall.

Get it together guys... you'rejoking is right, Wan Chai is a place for losers.

Women are very forgiving people, they keep families, homes and the children's education afloat while all this rubbish is going on... They are the backbone of our society. Left to care for all the responsibilities while Ulysses is out on the ocean, dealing with all of his deamons and indulging all his fantasies... and guess what? Even when Ulysses returns at long last... he often - like the original - leaves Penelope again...

One might call that a 'man thing', but that's a cop out... They do it cos they think they can. Let's tell them they can't.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (420 days ago)

My Hong Kong... your husband is not being 'selfish', he just finds your behaviour belittling to him and immature.

No doubt the wives/girlfriends of the men you flirt with too are embarrassed and annoyed by your behaviour.

You need to listen to him, or you could be dumped next. You are making him look like a spineless loser with all his friends, and you are making yourself look cheap.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by you're joking (420 days ago)

my HK - you are winding most up here :-) hehe. good one.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (420 days ago)

a wind-up...? Not likely... Just seems like a rather sad little piece of human self-deception going on here with MHK... Women who can't get over the fact that they married and still want the party spotlight on them...

Let all such teaser's tease... it just bores me, yawn yawn... And you'rejoking... I can see why you were a Wan Chai guy if that kind of behaviour humours you.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by you're joking (420 days ago)

i get humoured and appreciate a joke or a wind up as it is. not a wanchai guy really only when first arrived but now rarely go if at all. it disgusts me there and especially seeing old peac*cks walking around with a nubile young se asian girls on their arm thinking they are gods gift.....make me laugh and disgusted in the same breath. and especially when they think they are good haha what a joke! and what actually goes on makes me doubly disgusted esp on sundays!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by you're joking (420 days ago)

oh and lighten up flash.... see the light side of things a bit more. have a laugh because as it is said a laugh a day makes u live longer. i have a laugh when and if i venture into wanchai and lkf.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (420 days ago)

you'rejoking... Most people think I'm one of the funniest people they've met... a number even suggested I do stand-up, cos I'm good with the come-back, and get to the point..... But sweeheart, this kinda stuff... well, it ain't funny.... so I won't encourage it... or applaud it..

Hey yeah... I do keep it light, and here's the happy news... the good news for these guys is, there's another way to be happy without acting out..

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by My Hong Kong (420 days ago)

Flashback, my post was supposed to be a humorous, yet with a message. However, I put it in the wrong thread. That’s the reason for the confusion and I apologize for that. It should have been in the thread called ‘Final fantasy’ and it would have made much more sense there.

To clarify things here is a bit of background…

I am a woman and I am no longer married because my ex was quite on-demand at this part of the world. It was a battle I just couldn’t win. Women wanted him. He didn’t say ‘no’. I didn’t like the idea that he shared certain bits with other women. Eventually we dismantled what was otherwise a very good union.

Life moved on and I’ve dated a fair bit of men. However, I didn’t manage to find someone who was right for me in Hong Kong. There where great men, but they preferred Chinese women. For a while I’ve been involved in a LDR and I was flying every 2 months to meet my man. The relationship didn’t survive. Eventually I left Hong Kong and moved to the UK. I am not British, so there I suddenly became the “popular foreigner”. I am in a new relationship now with a psycho therapist. Not kidding!

I have lived in Hong Kong for nearly 2 decades and I keep coming here regularly. In fact I am in Hong Kong now.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (420 days ago)

Thanks for the clarification, My Hong Kong. I'm sure you can relate to how Ella must feel. Hope all goes well with your new man. Good for her (and us all) to know there's life after betrayal. I do feel enormous sympathy for the women who are treated like this. I myself have not had that experience, but I can imagine it must be devastating.


Oh... and I should also have noticed you as the same person who'd posted above ... sorry too... It didn't 'click' in.
All the best.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (418 days ago)

Good one, My Hong Kong. Yeah, when you say it that way...the shoe on the other foot, it sounds totally nuts for a man to expect his wife to just put up and shut up! Lol

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by lammum (418 days ago)

Be very careful, the same happened to me, and my husband (now ex) had been carefully plotting behind my back! By the time I finally came to my senses ( 6 months after finding the incriminating evidence) he had set up a new home in another SE Asian city with his gf! I am on my own here bringing up 2 kids under 6, but thank god I stunned him with the divorce papers, got a great lawyer and have some assets left from 10years together. Also got custody and a basic maintenance before he ran! i have always worked, often earning more than him but he was taking money here there and everywhere for at least 6 months before I even suspected anything. So, it is safe to assume if you have finally come to the conclusion he is up to something he has been at it longer than you think, and has plenty of co-conspirators to help him hide his tracks!

Good luck

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by ellascott (416 days ago)

Reading all your stories scares the hell out of me.. I met a man who gave me a number of a lady who runs a charity in Hong Kong called 'Soul Talk' He said she was great! Has anyone heard of it before?? Thinking of going and having a chat with her about everything. Might help me to clear my head.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (416 days ago)

http://www.soultalk.org/soultalk/main/content.asp?id=122&lang=E

Is that what you're looking for?

You can e-mail her through:
http://www.soultalk.org/soultalk/main/content.asp?lang=E&id=569

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by Pumpkin (416 days ago)

Andrea from SoulTalk is a fantastic lady for whom I have nothing but admiration and respect. If anyone knows about the sh*t that men can pull, its her. I would suggest calling her.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by ellascott (414 days ago)

Thank you I have her card :) I wrote an email to her today so I will just have to wait and see. Pathways I would love to chat how do I pm you??

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Gilmore (411 days ago)

Hi Ella,

Just came across your post, and I just wanted to say, been there done that. And do follow the advise given here. It's all very good. I went through a similar scenario last year, where my (now ex) husband was blinded by the HK life style and all it offered. He thought that life couldn't get any better than that, and maybe the grass was greener on the otherside. Luckily I found out sooner than later, and I decided that it was better to be single than to live with someone who did not appreciate you. It's been 9 months now, and I have to say the first three months were the hardest. A lot of soul searching, lots of tears, and a lot of internal debating. But I have a child that keeps me sane and stops me from regretting ever meeting my ex, a satisfying career that allows me to be financially secure and family that has been a great support. I am a happier person now - I was very unhappy in my marriage because of the disrespect, and because of him trying to make it my fault that he had to look elsewhere for a good time.

My advise is take care of yourself, and make sure you have your finances in order. There is no mention of kids, so that would make things a lot easier. I'm not sure a marriage can really survive such incidences. I still wonder at the many wives who seem to forgive such indescretions and carry on living with someone that, even for a moment, decided that life would be better with someone else and acted on it. But every situation is different and you should decide what's right for you. Just don't ignore the obvious or try to convince yourself that what is right in front of your face is not true. I tried to fool myself, ignoring my friends warnings, and thinking that my husband would never ruin our family like that. That he knew better. But I was wrong and had to learn my lesson the hard way. I'm only glad that I found out within months rather than years. That I acted on it immediately than waiting. Now I have my life back. You should try to figure out what's best for you and do it. Obviously your husband is looking out for himself. Do the same and take care of yourself. Get the help and talk to whomever you need to get through this. Therapy helps. Even if it's just to clear your thoughts up.

Good Luck.

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by lammum (408 days ago)

Gosh, Gilmore we are living parallel lives! Timing about the same too. I was married for 8 years before it wnet belly up, ellascott and pathways hope you are doing ok? I went to St johns counselling at the worst of it, which was helpful just to get my thoughts clear. It is hard sometimes to discuss with friends when you feel a fool, cheated etc. My divorce comes thru this month and like Gilmore I feel stronger and saner than I have in a very long time. amazing how much crap we take before the final straw. Do pm if you want any questions answered, may be able to help! Hang in there.

(I am based in Hong Kong)