She as it all. He has, erm....very little...

Posted by wendy7 (242 days ago)

OK...I'll try to keep this brief and uncomplicated... Let's say I'm a reasonable catch - many of the "right" qualities men seek. Additionally, I am financially established. I have recently met a fellow who, erm, isn't. Yes, he is a great man, but, and it's a big "but" - not only does he not have a dime, well, he is significantly in debt, with what I would deem to be grandiose plans to repay money owed. He lived a champagne life on a beer budget when his marriage ended some three years ago and doesn't have the strongest of work ethics. Unpaid tax for the past 2 years, about $250,000 owing on the credit card that is now on a personal loan because it exceeded the total limit and I bet he is racking it up again. He lives well out of his means -I did some quick sums and he is about $250,000 per annum (WITHOUT allowing for tax) over what he earns.

Maybe I've answered my own question... My girlfriend says "don't put a sick head in a healthy bed". Maybe she is right. Maybe not. When does the $ override love? Maybe I am more attractive to him because of my position. I feel our relationship is genuine, but the thought did cross my mind. All this in mind, an additional concern is the level of "comfort" he has within such a new relationship - for example, "our this and our that" - when he speaks of my car and my home and pretty much everything of mine. Yes, we particularly got along when we met (only some four months ago) and spoke of longevity within the relationship as we certainly did "click", but hey, a bit quick to "own" my stuff? He was terribly keen to get engaged and I told him perhaps someday. It screams of something not quite right when I see it in written form. But, hey, I like him but not enough to ruin my life over it.... Any thoughts? Oh, he comes with three kids (who live with their mother) - I have one - should I run??

By the way, I did ask him of his fiancial position very early on and let's say he flowered it up. Told me something like, I earn X, I owe X, my boss has X in the kitty for me to buy a share of the business (he failed to tell me that the amt he told me he owed was the actual figure minus the amount in the kitty - why allow for that if it isn't in play?) and my outgoings are X. Oh, and he has just been approved for an "investment loan" of $2M! I don't know how but that's another topic. Ok...to compound all of this he is, wait for it, a Financial Planner. No excuses for poor money management like, err...."I didn't know how to manage my $'s".

Apologies - did say I would TRY to keep it brief! Thanks for your time my fellow xpats, and suffice to say I have an idea as to the flavour of your forthcoming replies. If I continued with this relationship, I would be going against all intuition and life has messed up when I have gone against my gut feelings. Cheers.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

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Posted by Pupalicious (241 days ago)

I totally understand where you're coming from about the whole money thing. My boyfriend of four and a half years earns significantly less than I do, and finds it sometimes difficult to contribute to our household costs. (Please see earlier post "Giving money to parents")

He is the most wonderful man, he cares about me and does his best for me. He works hard and long hours, and rarely takes holiday from work to help impress his bosses with this dedication. He is good to his parents and family, he is always there for me (like when I'm drunk and need him to come pick me up and help me to get home) and he's everything a loving and kind boyfriend should be. He doesn't even shout at me for not doing my turn to wash the dishes or for leaving my clothes all over the floor! I'm a slob!

However, he's not in considerable debt. I mean, think about the future, one day maybe you'll get a joint account if it all works out and you get married and he might drain that dry. You can't get a mortgage for a house if he's in too much debt, how about paying for your kids to go to university? Okay, I'm looking dramatically down the line here, but it all bares thinking about. if he's in this much debt how can he take care of his children? At some point, this is all going to catch up with him and it probably isn't worth dragging your child through it.

I think you know the answer already, you just need to read it from some more people.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by woods99 (241 days ago)

This guy sounds like a total disaster. And, frankly, we tend to see the better side of people before we enter the full relationship. When we live with somebody, that is when we see all the bad things.

And nobody "changes for the better" just because they are in a full relationship. Some people can learn improved ways of handling money, but it sounds to me as though this guy has never been interested in anything other than enjoying himself.

If you go ahead with a full relationship, do so in the knowledge that the things about him that you find problematical now, will almost certainly get worse.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by dont know why (241 days ago)

Wendy
I think in your case, having money or not is not the biggest issue. One can earn money if one dosent have one. The biggest issue here I think is rather HOW he handles his money with three kids, ex-wife, and other obligations you have mentioned ie. banks, govn taxes, etc. Is this the way a grown man with tremendous responsiblities is supposed to behave with his life and his finance at this stage of the game? Often, people with irresponsible fiscal habits have boundary issues....people with money problems have trouble distinguishing what is mine, what is not mine. Hence the "our this and that" problem you are having with him. More importantly, more often than not, they are disorganized and irresponsible which are the reasons why they are in this mess in the first place. I am not saying they are bad people. On the contrary, they are usually charming, engaging, and happy go lucky people who have lots of friends. Because they live large (above their means) and genenerally have a good time while causing misery to the people who love them. So at the end of the day, it is a respect issue. My husband saves and invests every penny he can so that we can have a secure future together. And I respect him for having the enough discipline for us. And respect is an essential ingredient in a long term relationship. Although, love should be enough, to make a long term relationship work, there are a lot of things that go into it and financial security is one of them. And when I say financial security, I dont mean expensive house and a fancy car. I mean secure enough to not have to worry about small things....or having to pay down taxes. And you have a child to think about in this mix. So between the two of you, you guys have four kids. So this is a matter of whether you can live with his habits. And this is probably a life long habit which means it would be pretty difficult to change him at this stage.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by cara (241 days ago)

my first instinct is to say "steer clear, my dear"

BUT...i know someone who met a man almost 10 years ago. he hadn't been previously married and he didn't have any kids. what he did have was piles of credit card debt. he earned significantly less than she did. they stayed together anyway. they've been happily married for almost 8 years with two beautiful children. what was HIS debt is now THEIR debt. and they've been working their butts off trying to pay it down. it is working SLOWLY.

she is very happy with the decision that she made. she KNEW he was a good man and she was right. he'd just made some very unwise decisions earlier in life and now they are trying to fix it together.

i think the difference is, he WANTED to fix it, not hide from it. sounds like your man wants to hide from it rather than fix it.

good luck, but i have the feeling you have already made your decision.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Maxcgato (241 days ago)

If, by some chance you decide to go forward with this, please try to keep all of your financial things and his financial things separate as you move ahead. Don't go signing any joint things. Help him to set goals and a plan to pay off the debt...and make hime stick to it It can be done, but it is very difficult and will take some real willpower and focus on the goal! Once he gets out of debt, it will be a great burden taken off his shoulders. just be sure to not let him go there again! It's a shame that love and money have to mix. The bottom line is that debt causes stress and stress causes many other problems that can negatively affect a relationship regardless of the "love". Follow your heart, but be careful!
Good luck!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Pumpkin (241 days ago)

Simply tell him that with money being the number one reason why couples split, you will not consider moving the relationship forward unless he agrees to attend financial counselling sessions with you.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Little Carmen (241 days ago)

Hooo, I just read this and...I dont think staying with this yahoo is the best thing for you. Take it from one financially independent single mother, this guy has "Bad news bears" written all over his toe tag! The old cliche's of "You deserve better" are full on doing the leap frog in my head and they really ought to be in yours too. Love or lust...this guy isnt a good horse to bet on and your intuition is right. Just coz he isnt a jerk doesnt mean he's a catch. Throw in the towel and walk away.

Sorry...I know you already know what the right answer is. The debts he has racked up and let fall to the wayside are his doing...he doesnt sound in the least bit responsible. Any idea why his marriage split in the first place? We, as women, we want to think the best or more like we hope beyond hope sometimes...just ditch this one, you really can do better...life isnt all about money, but this is one sick puppy you cannot hope to save without losing a limb or two yourself.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by tigerbay (240 days ago)

Part of the attriction is his jet set lifestyle which is always sexy.
But in his case it is a sham.

Perhaps becaose of your position, if his life was 'real' you would be compatible peers.

But to say it again, his life is a sham.

He is a walking disaster, don't get sucked in.

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by ausmob (236 days ago)

RUN. RUN really fast. Change your phone number.

He doesn't respect anyone - his ex, himself, the law and not you.

You may want and need love - but not his self love and self denial - it is too painful.

As told by a smart lady "A woman only needs one ar#ehole"

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by lookforjames (233 days ago)

Wendy,

My personal AND professional opinion (I am a partner in a Risk Management Firm....having lived/worked/studied in Asia for over 18 years), is that something is definitely NOT right about this guy !!! Usually, when a person is that screwed up in a professional/career capacity, this is a clear sign of "bad character" !!! To be honest, when he says he's a "Financial Planner" the vibe I'm getting is that he made alot of money in a "boiler room" operation before or he's a true blue conman in some other way. I would love to help you, because I've seen many others get cheated in life, including one of my best friends, recently, in the U.S......drop me a line at my yahoo account, lookforjames@yahoo.com

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by dreadnought1 (228 days ago)

Hi Wendy. You answered your own question with you last sentence. Go with your intuition, not you heart. If your intuition says "Walk away" - then walk away! If you don't follow your intuition this time, the universe will present you with another opportunity, but it will be even more difficult to follow your gut feelings.

I am based in Shanghai

(I am based in Shanghai)

Posted by Hila Rious (226 days ago)

hey wendy

would you prefer it that he did not have any debt?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by wendy7 (224 days ago)

Thank you to everyone for your replies. Some most interesting and valid points. I am pleased to report that I went with my intuition - I happily ended the relationship a couple of days ago and it sits very well with me. There were a number of behavioural issues to boot, so let's say that this one wasn't worth hanging around for and trying to make it work. Thanks again, everyone. I really do appreciate your time. Wendy.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by ipod nano (224 days ago)

hey wendy,

rather than make a yes or no decision now - can u not ask this guy to tke his debt down by 30% in 6 months ie make a drastic cut to his lifestyle etc and set targets for him ongoing. if he really is keen to make it happen with you, he should be willing to show you that he has the will to change his ways. that way you'll also be more confident if he does change about taking your relationship forward.

of course, u will have to strip all his financial info from him to ensure he's not hiding anything...

but it MAY be another way

(I am based in Hong Kong)