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irrational expectations in relationships
Posted by portanier (134 days ago)
The last few years,inspite of the emancipation,has been a difficult time for woman.
The undue pressure and the continious bombarment by the media have altered their expectations of relationships.
Woman appear no longer content with a reasonable guy who has a regular job and forgets to buy flowers,they now want a guy who earns a fortune has no time for them and will put up with a mistress elsewhere...........just for the cache to have face.
If you look at the irrationality of this arguement you will see that aiming too high is silly,there are simply too few men to satify this egocentric conundrum.
So here is my advice ,stop looking for a Western guy because you think he will solve everything and look again at your local regular guy even if he is still carrying your hand bag and he has soft hands.
Better to settle for what you can achieve than what you think you "may" and be unhappy with.
lee du ploy.
yes I am a foreigner
(I am based in Hong Kong)
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Posted by Amparo Kia (134 days ago)
I am quite curious as to your several posts, you seems to keep glorifying western guy, i don't know how long you been here in HK or live in any Chinese culture cities, but your opinion is definitely NOT the exact truth, and please do not keep on presenting western guy as above all local guys in HK. We are all equal regardless of race.
Not all Chinese local women are running after the western men as you want to believe, and I have seen a lot of Chinese local men earning more than an expat. My colleagues (2 Britons) are working under my Chinese boss.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by portanier (134 days ago)
Thanks for your response, but lets not get personal,this is a forum which is intended for us to various points of view.....this is mine,you are permitted to have yours.
If you read my post again you will see its intended to be provacative, and it appears to have done its job.
I am if anything defending local guys,and earnings have nothing to do with life.
As to my personal life,...........I've not been allowed to work since they let me out.
relax its just an opinion and if I have in anyway caused you some discomfort I am sorry.
lee
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by cara (134 days ago)
sorry to disappoint you, but your post is neither provocative nor interesting.
there are "gold diggers" of every nationality out there. it has nothing to do with the nationality of the woman nor the man.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by mike204 (134 days ago)
OP never mentioned a specific nationality for women. However in asia, mostly in third world countries, a lot of women hope to marry a westerner thinking "he" will solve her financial problems. Women thinking this lose interest in the local men.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by magnolia_khan (134 days ago)
The intent and the message itself are clearly stereotyping..I wonder why this post is still here? while mine sometime ago was erased off the forum saying i was stereotyping..
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by TXcowboy (123 days ago)
I agree with portainer. There is a difference between stereotyping and describing a situation that occurs in the majority of the cases.
If you eat 10 chocolates and seven are good and 3 are bad, this means that the majority of the chocolate is good. That is not an stereotype.
Here is my story. I am a western guy too, with many western friends. In our group there are around 15 guys at any given time, of ages from early 20s to late 40s. The newest one has been in Asia for 4 years, the oldest over 15 years. None of them ever got married. None of them ever kept a girlfriend for over a year, and all of them, with no exception, either have lovers on the side, or simply change girlfriends every 2 or 3 months. All of them, with no exception, are bombarded with offers from women.
Sure I know the occasional foreigner who got married. All of the ones I know fall into a very clear category: Guys who couldn't get a western woman to save their lives. Some are plain ugly, some are too fat, many many too old.
The local men are, GENERALLY SPEAKING, great. A normal local guy is, in my opinion, the best husband there is, same as the normal western guy. The problem is that the normal local guys do not have so many women trying to get to them, so they do what normal western guys do in their western countries: They marry the best chick they can.
Now. Take a normal guy, give him an expat package and girls drolling over him and we shall see what happens.
If I was an Asia girl I might have my fun with western guys. After all, there is no deny that GENERALLY SPEAKING we are exotic and exciting. But when the biological clock can be clearly heard I would run to my local reliable guy for sure.
Hope this helps.
(I am based in Shanghai)
Posted by magnolia_khan (111 days ago)
Well if mercentile and crass relationships is what you looking for then good luck..look at yourself in the mirror any "normal" western girl would take a glance at you back home?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by portanier (110 days ago)
Magnolia this is an assumption.
Its a proposition that it is taken for granted,as if it were true based upon presupposition without proponderance of the facts.
Once more in the words of Voltaire ' I don't agree with you but I will defend your right to your views"
lee du ploy
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by PizzaAce (106 days ago)
magnolia_khan, who cares whether a normal western girl would glance at TXcowboy and his friends back home. What has that got to do with the price of tea in China.
The problem is not TXcowboy and his friends. The problem is western women in western countries and their pro-feminist movement since the 1960s which teaches them to treat men poorly. Regrettably, more and more HK local women are learning this ugly behaviour too and they have no shame in chasing after men based on the amount of money they have. Its disgraceful because on one hand they want equality in their relationships with men, but on the other hand, they are still greedy, manipulative and materialistic.
No wonder ANY man from ANY country would prefer an untarnished non-western thinking woman ALL the time.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by TXcowboy (106 days ago)
PizzaAce, you nailed it. Well done!
The feminist movement brought great things, but also great problems. Today, women expect to have the same benefits as men, but still be treated as before...it simply won't fly. I have seen towns in Europe when most men divorced their wives to marry western European women, and then women went on the streets to protest...simply hilarious.
Is interesting how many women think we just like Asian women. However, is also interesting how most of us don't waste a split second with ABC women.
Is not the race but the attitude.
(I am based in Shanghai)
Posted by notaeuropean (106 days ago)
TX is being a douchebag when he says Western dudes that marry or stay monogamous here are losers or ugly or whatever, hahaha, far friom it. It means we have found a good thing and would be idiots to throw it away for a bit of strange.
However I can agree with him and others when I say that SOME Western women or Americanized or "feminist"-ised women have some serious problems in attracting guys and keeping them. My feminist freinds wouold admit that too-- but would blame the men or patriarchy for making men want women who are feminine or sexy/sluty. Idiots.
"Asian" or non-screwed up women are indeed different than Americanized women. That doesnt mean slave or subservient or any of that orientalist bullshit. It means, in my admittedly limited experience of 4 CHinese women, sex-positive or sexually open and enthusiastic, emotionally warm, wise, tolerant and patient, and willing to work at a relationship. And yes feminine, did I mention that? If I wanted to sleep with a dude I would just go ahead and try that, you know?
I assume some of these women, as a group, are totally f-ed up and so on-- which is a universal across all genders. As others have said I think, it isnt about race. My ex, a feminist professor educated in the US, is Indian and cold and ball busting. It is the attitude indeed.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by My Hong Kong (105 days ago)
Now. Take a normal guy, give him an expat package and girls drolling over him and we shall see what happens.
To my understanding, TX is a guy that likes to have fun. That's what he wants. And he can cause he's got the looks, money, confidence and attitude. Cool for him! Probably less cool for the girl.
How this discussion turned into Asian Girls versus Western girls? No matter how the girl is...these popular men are not going to commit.
I am not a westerner...so I don't know how western women are...but I just feel that they are really criticized too harshly.
I live in the UK now and I see English ladies. Some are so feminine and hot...oh my god! It's individual...I think.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by TXcowboy (103 days ago)
Notaneuropean, some comments:
1. I agree with your comment about "found a good thing and don't want to throw it away", however, my point was not that. My point is about the guy who stays with someone after she gets fat, or marry someone because he thinks she is the best he can do. In my oppinion, the best is always "yet to come". I don't compromise and I don't "work on relationships". People who do that are people with very low self-steem. You think nobody ever is going to love you again, so you settle for the best you can do. Pathetic.
2. "I say that SOME Western women or Americanized or "feminist"-ised women have some serious problems in attracting guys and keeping them". With all due respect, your limited experience with women shine here. You dated 4 chinese and this tells me that you probably dated under 20 western women. With 24 girls under your belt you can't possibly come close to draw conclusions. I can tell you from extense experience that MOST (7 out of 10 being very generious) western women, or ABC, or anyone born in the western EU or the US, have serious problems keeping men (real men, not losers, that is) BECAUSE they want to have the cake and eat it.
Don't lose sight of the cue ball, is not about race, is about upbringing. I use my right NOT TO DATE anyone who is going to give me any sort of headache, whether she is white, yellow, black or purple. Life is to be happy, not to take someone else's problems and insecurities.
I expect a woman to act like a woman, talk like a woman, and smell like a woman. The second she starts demanding anything at all I kindly show her where the door is and how to use it. And this is not just me being a man. If I was a woman I would do exactly the same.
Today, this world is fully connected and you can meet people with every single personality you could dream of. If you are such a loser you have to stick with someone that does not give you what you want, that's fine by me, but in my book when my partner stop behaving in the way I expect this person to behave, she is out.
-----
I want you to consider this: You are suppose to be attracted to someone because of the way this person presents him/herself to you. That is, you EXPECT this person to be the way s/he was when you started dating. If this person gives me massages every week, this is how I expect her to be. The second she changes it shows that she MISREPRESENTED herself. Before she loved baseball and now I found out that she just "wanted to be nice"? Sorry, hon, goodbye and good luck.
(I am based in Shanghai)
Posted by tutorjoanna (103 days ago)
Leaving the stereotyping issue aside, why should anyone settle in a relationship? Are we all desperados who cannot survive on our own? Would we rather be with someone we are not happy with just because we are scared of being on our own?
And why on earth would someone want to be the other party settle for? That is just low self-esteem talking. Get someone who would appreciate you rather than asking others to settle for you.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by My Hong Kong (103 days ago)
I've been on my own several times. Honestly, it sucked. You don't get/give cuddles and kisses, you don't have sex and you don't have love and romance. Personally, my general well-being is better when I am with a partner.
Obviously, there is no point to be with someone we are not happy with! I can deal with lots of issues in a relationship (money, working hours, time spent together, frequency of sex, family issues, ex-es, friends, activities....), but not with cheating. That's when I really get unhappy and walk away.
What some men try to do on this board is convince women to accept everything, including cheating. That's too much. Really! I've met some women who chose to stay with a husband that strays. None of them was happy.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Amparo Kia (102 days ago)
Joanna, perhaps this sentence can answer your question on why we should settle in a relationship.
"Your prison is walking through this world all alone". Human beings are programmed to love and be loved.
Of course, it will be better to be alone than in a painful relationship.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by tigerbay (102 days ago)
Putting the Eagles 'Desperado' aside.
Somebody did once say that being stuck with the wrong person is more lonely than being on your own. This is something I found to be true in my first marriage. I was actually much happier on my own.
OK you could argue my life was incomplete, but then again, are our lives ever complete?
(I am based in Shanghai)
Posted by TXcowboy (101 days ago)
I think that nobody who can not be on their own is ready to be in a relationship.
An unhealthy relationship is being with someone either because you need this person or because you can not be on your own.
(I am based in Shanghai)
Posted by sicn (100 days ago)
You always need someone regardless you want a relationship or not.
Man wants independent woman because independent woman appears to be more confident and intelligent who can constant bring fresh air into a relationship.
But for a man to demand independence from woman, it shows he has fear of intimacy issue.
(I am based in Singapore)
Posted by confused101 (99 days ago)
first of all i am asian. and i agree with the OP. the post is not stereotyping, but merely an observation.
now being asian in hk, is what i can say tough. its hard to find a guy who will be with you forever. most men will just come up thinking that i am up for a bit of fun on the side.
actually for me: it doesnt matter where the guy is from. as long as he respects me AND he is a good boyfriend. thats all that counts. may he be local, or western
as
(I am based in Hong Kong)
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