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Thursday, 10/23/2014

man visits massage parlours, his wife is unsatisfied

POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

I discovered that the husband of a close friend visits "happy ending" massage parlours when he is away on business.
His wife often complains that her husband is too conservative and passive in bed, often too tired to even respond when she initiates sex and she feels unsatisfied with their sex life. She said that whenever she tried to discuss this subject with him, he just said everything is fine and he is happy with the way things are.
Obviously he is not, otherwise he wouldn't be paying for sex.

The situation is really ironic, because i am sure that sooner or later his wife will be looking for sex somewhere else. She is a fit and good-looking woman who gets plenty of attention from men.

Now i don't know whether to tell her about her husband's extra-curricular activities. If i did, i may become responsible for destroying this marriage (there are children involved).
I don't know the husband well enough to talk to him without coming across as a busybody.

Why would a man pay for sex and neglect his sexy wife is a mystery to me, but i am sure there are plenty of men out there who do it.
Maybe they can elaborate. Why don't they involve their wives in their sexual escapades? Are they too conservative to discuss their sexual fantasies honestly? Or maybe they put their wives on a pedestal (the saintly wife vs the sinful prostitute) and stop regarding them as sexual beings the moment they have a child?
Then it may come as a shock to discover that their saintly wives are not so saintly afterall, and may even get a sex buddy to get some sexual satisfaction.











#1 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

Nothing to do with you and how did you discover he was paying for sex. Were you actually in the room when it occurred?

#2 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

LGMV, I know because there is a witness, A reliable source who does the same but is not married.

#3 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

So the witness saw him pay and the sex actually take place?

#4 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

How do you know this witness is not lying to make his own misdeeds more acceptable?

#5 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

Sorry i can't disclose everything. Just take my word that the witness is reliable. I am also positive the witness is not spinning this story to justify his own behaviour.

#6 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

as to the sex actually taking place...well, you don't visit this kind of massage places to treat a sore back or tight shoulders.

#7 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

So you don't actually know it took place then.

#8 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

If it wouldn't stand up in a court of law, what right do you have to go around ruining someone else's family life?

#9 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

Also, if you have never been to the place concerned how do you know you can't just get a normal massage? Just because one guy got the happy version, it doesn't follow that the other one will. Perhaps one of the ladies there was trying increase her earnings. I'm not saying it isn't likely - boys being boys etc - but why are you so fascinated with the sex life of this guy and his wife? Why the urge to interfere in something which has manifestly nothing to do with you?

#10 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

i don't understand what a court of law has got to do with it. Nobody is suing anybody. I am just asking why this man would go to a massage place and neglect his wife. And what i can do to help my friend. Neither people are based in HK but the alleged massage took place here.

#11 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

I'm not talking about suing either. The reference to the court of law was allegorical. If you don't know it happened then why this obsession with the sex life of your friend and her husband? It's actually a bit pervy if you think about it.

#12 POSTED BY cookie09 (2 yrs ago)

i wouldnt be as aggressive as LGMV but fundamentally he has a point: though it's entirely possible what you dscribe, you don't really know anything for sure. for all that we know, he could gave gone into the room with a girl to show off to his single mate that 'he is a man' but actually do nothing in the room and just pretend (that's called peer pressure).

a separate thought: by telling the wife, you essentially ask her to chose between yourself/and the single friend and her husband. be aware that she might chose her husband after all and you will certainly not be her friend anymore after that.

#13 POSTED BY selda (2 yrs ago)

Some believe that ignorance is bliss. I don't. If i were the neglected wife i would like to know what my husband is up to. Especially if he neglected me. Why should the wife have a lousy sex life while her husband is seeking thrills in HK?
If the wife were happy, there is a risk that she would just ignore unpleasant news, and resent Juliette for telling her about hubby's infidelity. But according to the original post, wife is already unhappy about the situation and this vital piece of information may give her the right to look for fulfillment elsewhere.

When i discovered that one of my boyfriends had been unfaithful, what made me most furious was the asymmetry of the situation. The fact he was having fun with someone else while i was at home turning down other guys' invitations. Had i known, maybe i would have been less committed to this douche bag and been more inclined to meet other men.

I am not a moralist, but i believe in fairness. Both partners should have equal opportunities.

LGMV, i have a question for you. If your wife would rather go for a massage with a young, handsome masseur who notoriously strips and offers genital stimulation to neglected wives, instead of having sex with you, how would you feel?






#14 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

> LGMV
I am not obsessed with this couple's sex life. I just want to know what would be in the best interest of my friend. She is the one who told me about her lack of satisfaction and boring sex life. Knowing that her husband pays for sex puts things into a different perspective.
If indeed he would rather act out his sexual fantasies with other women than share them with his wife, he is not such a great husband, don't you think?

>Selda, i agree.
If i were in her position i would prefer to know the truth. By knowing the truth she would be able to confront her husband and tell him that his visiting prostitutes is not part of their marriage deal. Or, who knows, she might decide to let him carry on, and get her kicks somewhere else.

#15 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

Selda/Juliette. Except that you don't actually know what happened and we are talking about a family with kids.

#16 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

The kids are playing happily in the garden and then one day auntie Juliette comes around for a coffee with mum - and kaboom. Auntie Juliette had a hunch about dad.

#17 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

> Cookie09

you said "he could gave gone into the room with a girl to show off to his single mate that 'he is a man' but actually do nothing in the room and just pretend"

There was no peer-pressure. He is the one who shared his good knowledge of working girls, places for a 'happy-ending massage' etc. with the witness. Apparently this knowledge of massage parlours extends to other cities he visits.

>LGMV
It's not a hunch. And why do you prefer to focus on the 'happy family' picture when his wife is far from happy? You didn't answer my question about the reverse scenario. What if wives started to get their "happy-ending" outside the marriage? Would you still be so understanding? I detect some double-standards in your tone.


#18 POSTED BY mjrelje (2 yrs ago)

It doesn't add up to me... if the wife is not getting it and she is trying initiating sex; and he goes off to prostitutes on biz visits; then he obviously wants sex -- so why wouldn't he have it in both circumstances? Maybe he has just really gone off her and just prefers the excitement of a paid encounter rather than the pressure of having to fein a degree of attraction? eitherway, if they are maintaining a family environment and the only thing lacking is her sexual needs, I'd leave it well alone and nor interfere. She'll have an affair if she really needs one, but not because you stick your nose in.

#19 POSTED BY selda (2 yrs ago)

Juliette/Mjrelje,

I don't know this couple but i heard that sometimes after the birth of a child some husbands stop regarding their wives as sexual partners. It's a mental thing, no matter how yummy she looks, in their eyes she is the mother of their child, and no longer the wild sexy thing they were attracted to. So sex becomes a routine, very vanilla, and if their wife tries to spice things up, they have a real difficulty separating the 'holy mother' picture they have formed of her from the image of the sexy vixen she is trying to conjure up.

They may resort to prostitutes for sexual acts that they see inappropriate for 'Her Holiness'.
Just a thought.
The problem is that the wife may get just as bored and start fantasizing about other men.
I think that many men underestimate the actual sex drive of their wives. If their wives seem uninterested in sex it may be because the kind of sex that is on the menu tastes more like canteen food and less like haute cuisine. I am not saying that one should eat gourmet dishes everyday, but if what is on offer is always mashed potatoes, it gets very frustrating.

#20 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

Juliette. No one is happy if their partners go off with someone else, that's obvious. However, setting yourself up as judge, jury and executioner of someone else's marriage when there are children involved is quite wicked especially if you can't prove he has done anything wrong - which you can't. It's just not your business.

#21 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

And if you don't have proof, it's a hunch.

#22 POSTED BY mjrelje (2 yrs ago)

I'm sure if any woman makes the effort to dress well, enjoy an evening together, becomes obviously sexually available as bed looms, and takes at least some inititative in getting what she wants from her partner, then she is certain to get a good f***ing in the way she wants. Unless the partner is a complete idiot or has just totally gone off her.

#23 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

>LGMV
i have already told you that there is a reliable witness who has no ulterior motives. I cannot tell you more without disclosing details that would make his identity, my connection to him and the identity of this couple public, which i don't intend to do.
We are not in court, for godsake, we are just exchanging opinions based on the information that i feel comfortable sharing with total strangers on a public website. Rest assured that i am not relying on rumours. The question i asked is not whether this man is being unfaithful to his wife, which i know for sure he is, but what the best course of action is with regards to my friend, and the reasons why some married men end up in massage parlours when they have a horny wife at home.

I appreciate Cookie09 and Selda's advice and wait for more. Doubting my version of the story is totally pointless because important details had to be omitted for the sake of everybody involved.

#24 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

> Mjreje
i understand that this is what she does. She complains that she has to initiate sex and that his performance in bed is perfunctory.

#25 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

Juliette. No we're not in court but if you persist with your mad plan things probably very soon will end up in court with severe implications for the kids involved. You don't know for sure. You weren't there, your dodgy witness also witnessed nothing. There is a family with kids involved. The sex life of your friend and her husband has nothing to do with you.

#26 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

Evidently your idea of marriage differs from mine.

#27 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

We're not talking about your marriage though, are we Juliette?

#28 POSTED BY mjrelje (2 yrs ago)

Does she think that maybe he doesn't find her attractive, or has that idea not been suggested?

#29 POSTED BY Confoolius (2 yrs ago)

OK. I think that nobody here really understand what is meant by "Happy Ending" Massage Parlour. I am sure if Juliette clarifies what I am about to tell her with her informant, she will feel a lot relaxed.

In a HE massage, the guy gets a normal massage and at the end, the masseuse just jerks the guy off. Its like mast*rbating with someelse's hand.

Its totally different from a massage parlour where they offer sexual intercourse, which are basically offering massage just as a front.

There are many possibilities. But in any of the cases, its not physical intercourse. So, just let it go. You may end up doing much more damage to them than just a happy ending.. It will certainly not be happy for either of them.

A) Top tier hotels or massage parlours where people go with even families or kids. The masseuse may offer this additional value added service without the establishment knowing it in exchange for greater tips. This depends on the masseuse and obviously the customer. Either one may initiate, it may not may not take place. Its possible the bachelor guy did it and the married guy didnt. The married guy may have been offered but he could have rejected. You will never know. So, forget it and go about your business.

B) Some places regularly offer this along with other legitimate massges. But this is offered under the guise of more expensive massages. If you are not chinese, its a very high possibility that you may not be aware that this was part of the deal. Again, this could be declined as and when it comes since this is a very small part of the whole massage service.

C) Some places offer this and guys go there for it. So what? a guy often feels happy at the end of a massage. So what if he got a helping hand.

Give the guy a break. The most important thing you need to understand is whether he is like doing this on a regular basis or was it a one off incident.

#30 POSTED BY cookie09 (2 yrs ago)

actually my honest suggestion would be for you to tell your friend to have an affair if she is not happy. you dont need to tell her that her husband strains, but you can suggest that if he doesnt satisfy her, then it would not be wrong for her to seek her satisfaction elsewhere

if she says 'i cant do that, i want to be a loyal wife', then you could answer 'how do you know he is loyal?'

another alternative is to suggest to your wife for her to tell her husband: 'i am not happy with the sex life we have, please give me permission to seek out other men'. something like that would put him on the spot, and who knows he might agree as long as the same applies for him.

#31 POSTED BY Confoolius (2 yrs ago)

People really need to understand the difference between.

1. Happy Ending: Could be same as a foot massage, just that its not the foot. Could be a girl fully attired, sitting at the edge of the bed giving you relief from a tense muscle.

2. Ex-marital sex: A physical intercourse which may or may not have any emotional angle

3. Ex-marital affair: You are actually falling for someone other than your spouse. Sharing thoughts and emotions, having dinner, etc. Bitching about your spouse and how you hate her. Even without any physical angle to it, to me, this is the worst.

#32 POSTED BY Mr Bigglesworth (2 yrs ago)

Indulging in a naughty massage is not cheating. It's an outsourced wank.
Definitely not something worth throwing a grenade into someone else's marriage.

I'm curious as to why you're so morally outraged about this that you're considering lobbing that grenade, while in another thread you appear to be actively seeking out a bit of fun on the side for yourself?

Edit: the thread "dating site for married people" started by juliette has just been deleted.

#33 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

> Mr Bigglesworth
I am not morally outraged. How did you get the idea? But i believe that when two people get married they both have duties and rights. If husband wants to outsource sexual pleasure, he should discuss it with his wife, instead of keeping her in the dark. He may be surprised. She may even agree that it is a good idea to let a stranger pleasure her husband if sex is so boring, while she gets her rocks off somewhere else. Denying your wife a chance of making an informed choice about her own fidelity is unfair. I am not talking about morality, mind you, just basic fairness and respect.

#34 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

Juliette. How about respecting other people's married lives especially ones that involve children?

#35 POSTED BY malka (2 yrs ago)

Two people who marry should be left to sort out their problems (i.e. rights and duties are not yours to dictate) - surely your friend is not so stupid as to let others influence her actions? If she is not an assertive independent person, the more she should be encouraged to find her own ground/strength to deal with her marital problems.

Too many cooks?

Gossip damages relationships and meddling/playing agony aunt can hurt and even prevent a couple from taking their own path to resolution.

#36 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

Actually, following Mr Bigglesworth's post I'm starting to suspect that it may be Juliette's husband who has been to the massage parlour and she is using this forum to find out why. The friend may not even exist. Just a hunch.

#37 POSTED BY mjrelje (2 yrs ago)

well whoever's wife it is, I bet there is a lot more to it than Juliette is letting on here, and I bet that all is far from happy at home the way Mr.J sees it.

#38 POSTED BY Mr Bigglesworth (2 yrs ago)

The bloke in question may have had a lapse in judgement, but it's not worth risking a family.

#39 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

>Mjrjeli
you are right, there is lot i cannot talk about.

And, no, i am not married, nor i have children, to satisfy LGMV's curiosity.

#40 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

So why did you start up that thread about a "dating site for married people" Juliette? Are you trying to drum up business?

#41 POSTED BY Lunatic (2 yrs ago)

juliette,

regardless of the fact whether you tell your friend that her husband is visiting happy ending massages or not, if she knows that the man is not having sex with her, but does not realize that he is getting it somewhere else then, she must either come from another planet or is already thinking of ways to deal with this herself.

let people deal with their relationships. it is complicated enough without your interfering...

#42 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

>LGMV
I have no business to drum up, i posted that thread about dating sites for married folk out of academic curiosity. I couldn't find one in HK, which i think is rather surprising, because they are very common in other countries. I am not a journalist but i do write about social mores.

>WonTonNom
so many posters on this thread regard "happy endings" as acceptable. I am just as flabbergasted as you are. Some people described as a way of outsourcing masturbation, almost as if the active involvement of another woman didn't even register. That woman holding their penis could be exploited, trafficked, abused, but she is invisible to them. Just as invisible as the sexual fulfillment of their wife. And yet their wife is supposed to be the one ultimately responsible for the happiness and well-being of their children. Husbands can be unfaithful but wives shouldn't know about it, maybe even put up with it, for the sake of the family. How about shared responsibility??? Is this the 21st century or what? Judging from some of the comments it seems that a few men are still living in the dark age.

>Lunatic
i agree that sooner or later she will get herself a lover, maybe start taking Prozac, drink heavily or find religion. I am still unsure what it will be best for her and her kids. As a friend who knows more about her husband than she does i feel very uncomfortable. This secret is weighing on me.

Tonight we had a long chat over the phone and she doesn't suspect anything. She thinks her husband may be uninterested in sex and she even feels guilty about her sexual urges. I told her that she is still young and desirable and if her husband is blind to her charm, other men certainly aren't.
Maybe he thought that making her pregnant, having children depend on her would make her turn a blind eye to his shortcomings (no pun intended). If anything it would make her, and by extension her children, miserable, and we know what kind of damage an unhappy mother does to herself and the kids. To people who condone 'happy endings' i would say your outsourcing pleasure will eventually bite back. You reap what you sow. I have lived in HK long enough to see the impact of this behaviour on marriages.
I am glad i have never been a wife. I was someone's mistress once, and as much as i hated that role, at least i wasn't the one being lied to, being neglected and having to put up with his moods, boring colleagues and social engagements.
Knowledge is more empowering than ignorance. I wish i could help my friend step out of the 'cheated wife' rut without causing her too much damage. Maybe i suggest her to hire a private detective to follow him when he is in HK. At least i will not be the bearer of bad news.





#43 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

Juliette. Aren't you being being self indulgent? It just isn't your business. You only know half the story and, inspite of your protestations and claims you can't talk about it (even though this is an anonymous forum), you can't categorically be sure anything happened. Even if it did happen, it still isn't worth you destroying a family over. You say you want to help your friend get out of the 'cheated wife rut' but you had knowlingly put another woman in the same poition yourself when you were a mistress. Are you trying to atone for your sins by trying to 'help another woman'? Is this more about making you feel better than your friend?

#44 POSTED BY mjrelje (2 yrs ago)

sure sounds like it to me LGMV. I stick to my theory that he just does not find her attractive anymore except now and again for a quick shag in between business visits.

#45 POSTED BY xpatwilier (2 yrs ago)

juliette,

if you really have your friend's best interest at heart, stop advising her to hire detectives, or finding lovers, and DON'T disclose anything about what you know regarding the husband's activities. No offense, but you seem to be revelling in your involvement in trying to solve problems but may cause even more damage through doing so. There are kids involved and you should stay out of it.

You can however, encourage your friend to talk to her husband such that they can communicate better about their respective needs from each other. It's that simple.

#46 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

It all sounds a bit strange to me. Is Juliette actually the former mistress of this guy and she wants to get back at him - after being dumped - by telling his wife that he has been to a massage parlour? Just a hunch.

#47 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

Why would Juliette set up a thread about married couple dating sites 'for academic curiosity'? Who does that sort of thing? Why the obsession with who has been holding whatever and why that peson is visible or invisible?

#48 POSTED BY Mr Bigglesworth (2 yrs ago)

And what about the source of the info? Someone needs to tell the husband that his friend is going around telling stories about him. What a scumbag.

#49 POSTED BY malka (2 yrs ago)

Juliette sounds pretty naive, inexperienced, someone keen on meddling and setting up pseudo posts for garnering material to augment her living/private taste for gossip and intrigue.

Sad picture. Please go out and live your own life fully instead of through others' lives.

Not only an allumeuse/teaser/voyeuse but a hypocrite to couch under concern for friend's welfare and principles of justice/fairness/marital contract.

#50 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

I know that my friend is at her wits' end because he insists that everything is honky dory and all her attempts to talk about their sexual problems have failed. He dismisses her concerns and is clearly uninterested in discussing these issues, and doesn't want to see a marriage counsellor.

I am not trying to interfere in their marriage, i am simply and discreetly bringing up this case here so that i can make up my mind as to the best course of action.

I would like to hear from wives that have been cheated on, rather than men who are trying to downplay this guy's extra-marital activities and are not taking the wife's unhappiness seriously.
I have known my friend for more than 20 years and i have never seen her as unhappy, confused and resentful. She doesn't want to be reassured that her marriage is fine because she knows it isn't but can't figure out why.

And no, i am not trying to atone for my sins by showing concern for her. She is my best friend and i suppose normal people do feel for their closest friends and want to help them. Is it that strange to you?

#51 POSTED BY malka (2 yrs ago)

Does she have a brain to tell her next step when to draw the line somewhere?

Lots of cheated wives' stories - what do you hope to achieve, to seek justification for your unloading your deadly secret?

Best advice from a friend is ask her to help herself and be strong - she knows herself, her family better than you do.

Maybe she should seek professional help herself.

#52 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

of course she has a brain. But her husband's behaviour comes across as puzzling because she still misses some of the puzzle tiles. How can she make an informed decision about her marriage if she can't see the whole picture?
I have no intention to tell her what to do, she is intelligent and brave enough to make decisions by herself.

If your business partner was being dishonest, undermining your business, stealing clients, whatever, and one of your best friends found out, wouldn't you want to know the truth? Marriage is just another sort of contract, and yes it comes with obligations.

#53 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

Just not your business Juliette and you only know half the story. Did you have an the affair with her husband?

#54 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

>LGMV
your insinuations are all ridiculuous

#55 POSTED BY selda (2 yrs ago)

As a woman i would want to know. When i discovered my bf's infidelity and lies i was furious but at least i had a chance to call his bluff and get out of a relationship that wasn't good for me because it was undermining my confidence and self-esteem.
If you don't know that someone is cheating, you keep making allowances for his erratic behaviour, inhability to stick to plans, sudden coldness followed by strange displays of affection to assuage his guilt, etc. In short, you prolong the pain.

If Juliette's friend finds out about her husband's infidelity, she can at least confront him and maybe convince him to see a counsellor together. Or she can decide that it's time for her to seek a more sexually-compatible partner and get out of a marriage that is making her miserable.
Some men may change their behaviour if they come to the realisation that visiting prostitutes is not worth losing their family.

It sounds as if this couple is unable to communicate effectively: he gets sexual satisfaction outside the marriage, she is left high and dry and confides in her friends. Man and wife should be able to talk honestly about their sexual needs, looking for short cuts such as outsourcing sex is detrimental to their relationship. If they can't do that, this marriage is doomed anyway.
Personally i'd leave a doomed relationship sooner rather than later. She can find a more suitable partner and rebuild her life. Kids do not thrive in an unhappy marriage. What kind of example does it set for them? Would they grow up thinking that a woman should sacrifice her happiness, confidence, self-esteem and become a doormat for their sake? That would make them feel guilty or lose respect.

It takes two to save a marriage, so this guy should start to work on it instead of seeking relief with prostitutes. If he is not prepared to do that, then, well, good riddance.

#56 POSTED BY Mr Bigglesworth (2 yrs ago)

If my wife had strayed during a lull in our marriage I'd prefer never to find out. And I'd curse the day I found out - and probably the person who told me.

Cheating is a symptom of problems in a relationship. Your friend is well aware that there are problems. Drawing attention to this particular symptom will most likely do more harm than good. The kids need the best chance possible that the parents stay together.

Kids from broken homes begin their lives at a disadvantage. Fact.

#57 POSTED BY selda (2 yrs ago)

Mr.Bigglesworth,

but if you found out, at least you would know why your wife behaves erratically while claiming that everything is fine. Once you know you have a choice: you can forgive her and turn a new leaf; both can work hard to improve things in your marriage and she may even see you in a new and better light. Or you can decide that your marriage is doomed and that infidelity is just the icing on the cake. It may help you find the strength to end it and.

On the other hand, if you don't know, and your wife treats you as a brother rather than a husband, is cold to you, maybe even tells you that you are paranoid and everything is JUST FINE, you may become depressed, withdrawn and possibly develop paranoid symptoms. There is nothing like someone telling you that everything is fine and it's all in your head to make you really mental :-)

#58 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

Selda. That's naive. I would prefer not know - and that's the default position. What's your husband/boyfriend doing now?

#59 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

Juliette. So your previous life as a mistress has nothing to do with this couple?

#60 POSTED BY mjrelje (2 yrs ago)

Women eh?! mistresses and hand job prostitutes... Unless its all 'paid' for after marriage on their terms and needs. And you wonder why men stray??

#61 POSTED BY Lunatic (2 yrs ago)

Juliette, darling, you grossly misinterpreted my post.

What I meant is that your great secret is probably not secret to your cherished friend at all.
Seriously, what man would live in a sexless marriage without getting action somewhere??? This is not how men function and i am sure that your friend is aware of it.

i am no clairvoyant, but i predict the beginning of the end of your friendship should you interfere.

now, if you are the sexy wife who is being neglected, you can try to talk your husband into seeking professional help to see why he is avoiding getting physical with you.

#62 POSTED BY CaptDave (2 yrs ago)

I think LGMV is onto something - a lot of facts turn out to be conjecture. I would be wary of repeating such stories unless the witness was peeking thru the window at the time of copulation, especially since the “witness” is a known lecher, which would make him likely to want to implicate others.

OP wrote : “her husband's behaviour comes across as puzzling”… I am sure it does.
But what is the cause here ? Let’s assume he is cheating, and their love life is not active.. why ? And how is telling the wife this sordid detail going to help the wife fix the marriage ? Unless you can offer an explanation WHY he is seeking sex outside the marriage instead of inside, you are not really helping; just destroying.

#63 POSTED BY Sapphire (2 yrs ago)

Juliette, you said in your first post that you didn't know whether or not you should enlighten your friend about her husband's 'activities'. One would assume that as you have posted this on a public forum you were looking for advice on the best course of action. From the majority of responses you have had, I would say that the general consensus is that it's best to keep your nose out of your friend's marriage.

In these situations, when a husband is not interested in sex with his wife, most women (intelligent or otherwise) realise, deep down, that there must be a reason for it. You have already stated that your friend has a brain and is intelligent ... do you honestly think that she doesn't suspect there must be a reason for his lack of interest in sex with her? Of course she does!

The best thing you can do is to simply advise her to be open with her husband and insist on discussing their situation in detail ... there's no point in talking to you about it, having long discussions on the telephone ... she needs to tell him that she's not happy with their lack of intimacy and ask him outright why he is not interested in sex with her, as she obviously knows there is a problem. As others have said, most normal men do not go without sex unless there is a reason (point this out to her!), be it medical problems, such as impotence, or depression, or the fact that he's getting it elsewhere.

If she is so unhappy in her marriage (and who could blame her?), and discussions fail, she has choices to make ... either accept it and stay in the marriage, or do something about it. Either way, even without knowing the full facts as you understand them, the decision, after discussions with her husband, should be hers.

Some women, even knowing the facts, would still choose to remain in the marriage rather than start again as a single mum. Hard for some to understand, but true all the same. It really would be best that you don't add to her worries and concerns ... just be a good friend and be there for her if/when she needs you.

Juliette said ...
"I have no business to drum up, i posted that thread about dating sites for married folk out of academic curiosity. I couldn't find one in HK, which i think is rather surprising, because they are very common in other countries. I am not a journalist but i do write about social mores."

.... Just wondering if this thread is simply a way for Juliette to gain information for her next piece of writing ....?

#64 POSTED BY Sapphire (2 yrs ago)

Also, just to put my point across, I was once in a similar situation, having information about a friend's husband. I chose not to tell her what I knew, but turned out in the end that she knew all along that something was going on. I was the person she turned to for comfort and advise, the shoulder that she cried upon. After many years of marriage, with children involved, she didn't want to start all over again, and chose to remain with her husband, even after knowing what he'd done. They seem to have worked things out in their own way. Who's to say whether she will ever be truly happy again, but it was her decision to make.

I often think that had I told her what I knew, through no fault of her own, she would probably have felt embarassed/ashamed/mortified, that other people knew what her husband was up to, and I'm sure that she wouldn't have thanked me for it. And we probably wouldn't have the close friendship that we still have today ....

#65 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

>Sapphire
thank you for your advice. i value our friendship and that's why i haven't told her about her husband's activities. Who knows, maybe she will find out out one way or another.

#66 POSTED BY CaptDave (2 yrs ago)

Most of the posters seem to be missing something -

The problem with the marriage is not because he is fooling around,
Rather -
He is fooling around because there are problems in the marriage.

She already knows there is a problem - the key is to find the cause.

#67 POSTED BY MJ1 (2 yrs ago)

A happy ending for the bloke is just like a facial/perm for women. Don't think too much about it, it's just a few minutes of instant gratification with no emotional attachment, full stop. The girl providing the service just treats it as another service to offer, to make a bit more money, nothing more.

If you want to cause a stir over some occasional happy endings, then so be it, but there won't any winners out of such actions, with the major losers being the children.

juliette, focus your time on your hobbies instead.

#68 POSTED BY MJ1 (2 yrs ago)

it won't happen, I've got plenty of manhood to go around...now intercourse is going a tad far, a bit of handy work is acceptable.

#69 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

i spoke to my friend and i asked her whether infidelity could be one of the reasons why her husband is uninterested in having sex with her. She told me she had asked him many times if he was getting it somewhere else, and he denied. He insisted that he is interested, just tired because of all the travelling, and she believed him.
I know that it would cause a lot of embarrassment if i told her what i heard about him and his behaviour in Asia (not just HK apparently).



#70 POSTED BY CaptDave (2 yrs ago)

Let’s recap -
- Wife is sexy, fit, attractive, and gets plenty of attention from other men
- Wife unsatisfied with their sex life
- Wife initiates, husband disinterested
- Husband claims to be too tired.. but
- Husband engaging in paid encounters all over town, and overseas

It seems very hard to believe… But assuming it’s true, there is a dynamic in the relationship that we don’t know about. Here are two possibilities;
(1) The wife done something to bruise the man’s ego, and this is some kind of outlet for his feelings. Does the wife earn more than the man ? Is the wife domineering or bitchy ?
(2) The man has simply lost interest, and is seeking some kind of novelty and excitement.

Assuming it's (2), then I think the wife should try to bring the excitement INTO the marriage, by which I mean, get dirty.

#71 POSTED BY MJ1 (2 yrs ago)

sex in public places should spice things up a bit, juliette please recommend to your friend...

#72 POSTED BY malka (2 yrs ago)

It seems a bad sign that he is so uninterested in his wife's well-being.

But if the only unhappiness of wife is that she does not get enough sex (with him), even if tired, he can just lay on his back (pretend she's a stranger and think of his other happy endings), let her work her magic on him. That'll give herself satisfaction and possibly a start to better things.

#73 POSTED BY GemmaW (2 yrs ago)

Consder this... what if she already knows about the 'happy ending' massage but doesn't consider it infidelity?
She'd be really embarrassed that you've brought it up and her hubby will feel betrayed by his friend for spreading it.
If you feel really strongly about it, why don't you approach her husband and tell him how you feel about the situation? Tell him what you've heard and tell him that his wife will appreciate if he was open and honest with her. See what he says after that. He probably feels he is doing no harm and it's just awful if you tell this for him especially when there are children involved.

#74 POSTED BY GemmaW (2 yrs ago)

Plus, if you feel really strongly about it, Juliette, you could tell the husband that you feel strongly about it and that you're afraid you will tell her if he doesn't.

#75 POSTED BY CaptDave (2 yrs ago)

Anyone touring the world of prostitution is already a very high risk of the diseases mentioned by Angelique. The man is engaging in very risky behavior already... and may already have passed some disease to his wife.

#76 POSTED BY due2008 (2 yrs ago)

I was in the same situation a long time ago. I had/still have a friend who's husband was a cheater...even went over to her married coworker's home and proposed a sexual encounter. I was torn over saying something because I felt very loyal to her as a friend. I never did say anything for several reasons 1. I think she already knew that he had these tendencies and would rather NOT hear about them (sometimes ignorance is bliss) 2. she may think that I am making it up and our friendship would be compromised. I wasn't married at the time and made sure I was never around him alone so I wouldn't be faced with the same situation. I think if I were still around them (we have moved away), I might be inclined to talk to the husband and ask him to stop behaving that way or figure out why he is doing it so that the marriage can be saved. Good luck with whatever you decide.

#77 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

My friend and i talk everyday (thank goodness skype is free!) which is a clear sign her relationship is going through a full-blown crisis.
She is going mental because she can't even pick a fight. He just bought her a new necklace for no apparent reason, offers help with house chores and plays with the kids. And yet he avoids intimacy, either by making fun of her approaches (the latest being 'horny wife rapes husband') or just ignoring them and claiming that he is tired/has a back pain etc.
She doesn't want her marriage to turn into some asexual partnership.
I can sense her desperation and am afraid she may start looking for a lover before she actually finds out about her husband's infidelity.

#78 POSTED BY malka (2 yrs ago)


Why would she go out and take a lover if it will make the situation for the marriage worse? Maybe she could get one of those trantric massages (something she could raise with husband to test his reaction)?

Maybe he is guilty and is afraid of passing any STDs to her so she might be better off without intimacy with him until she can be sure.

Ask her to seek professional counselling with her husband rather than continuing to feed her frenzy. Tell her to be sensible and strong.

#79 POSTED BY frilady (2 yrs ago)

Hi Juliette

I feel for you and your friend.
You are a good friend and you just want to do the right thing.
I was in the exact same situation, husband withdrawing and not wanting to talk about it and persisting everything was " fine". after 20 years of marriage I knew something was wrong!
I also almost got mental in trying to fix our marriage by my own. Since he didn't have atrack record of lying, I choose to believe him when he looked me in the eye and denied having an affair.
Of course he was lying!
If you friends husband would confess to them having issues, HE would have to face up to his own problems. And that is what he is avoiding at all cost!
He might be going through a midlife crisis? You said they have been married 20 years. I would recommend your friend the following website. www.thehouseontherock.com
If she reads it and recognizes her husband in the description it might help her to approach him. It does not give any guarantees for him wanting to change his ways and ultimately their relationship may end in a divorce, but it will not be your fault. As someone here said, his behaviour might be a symptom, not the cause of a problem.

#80 POSTED BY juliette (2 yrs ago)

>Malka,
I mentioned earlier that i suggested counselling from the start, but her husband refuses to acknowledge that there is a problem and therefore to see a counsellor or any sort of therapist.
As to my friend contemplating an affair, i guess it's only natural when you are neglected and unsure as to whether you are still sexually desirable. I don't think it's a solution, but she is clutching at straws at the moment.

>Frilady
they haven't been married for 20 years, actually less than 7 years. Their kids are still young. I will recommend the website :-)

#81 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (2 yrs ago)

You're going around in circles. Let this couple be. Counselling is a joke.

#82 POSTED BY rititt (2 yrs ago)

juliette, are you married? don't get involved, she's your friend and you want to help her and the best way to help her is to stay out of it. she has her life to live, you can't interfere.

#83 POSTED BY running (2 yrs ago)

9/10 men do it.

#84 POSTED BY mjrelje (2 yrs ago)

YES! I am the 10% :)

#85 POSTED BY scorpio01 (2 yrs ago)

i am also 10%
married and never done it.

#86 POSTED BY Mr Bigglesworth (2 yrs ago)

We are all the 10%!

#87 POSTED BY scorpio01 (2 yrs ago)

10% until caught !! LOL

#88 POSTED BY Justin Credible (Part Deux) (24 mths ago)

Ok, so there is a LOT of advice to wade through and here I am to add my 10 cents.

First and foremost, Julliette, you are not married, you do not have kids. LGMV is likely married with kids. So his perspective would be similar to many others who are married with kids. Its actually none of your business and you really ought not to stick your nose in it when your hand in this would mean the end of a happy household "as the KIDS see it".

Adults fukk up, adults are hardly the epitome of how it should be done, but we can kinda do our best to save the next generation from our misdeeds. Its all well and good for you to be saying you have your friends best interests at heart but you do sound a bit sanctimonious and outraged that anyone else may actually see it the husbands way. Like "this is NOT the kind of man I would want to be married to!" and hence you somehow need to save your friend! *SMH*

Until you've had kids, you do not, you can not, really know how this would impact what we loosely term as FAMILY.

Selda, your advice is great and as a non-parent, that advice would be great...but again, as someone who comes from a home with parents who have been together 45 tumultous but very currently very content and loving years...I would say, damn am I glad they didn't get a divorce coz of my fathers wandering dong.

My folks go on cruises like good old folks, they are happy, each others best friend and worst enemy, but doesn't mean they didn't have a lot of similar stuff in their life. But now they are happy. Lucky for them they were left to deal with their own problems without the "help" of "do gooders" with unsolicited input on how they could get more sex on the side, hire detectives or how to question each others fidelity!

Did I think that they should have been divorced many times before? Sure. But now, as an adult and as their child, I think, shi* am I glad they have each other...

Now Juliette, I am sure you mean well, but just don't. Its not whether anyone will believe you or whether you tell the truth or whatever, the core of the matter here is its not your life, its not your place, its not your business whatsoever, so keep clear of it and hard as it would be to just let that shi* slide...do.

Happy ending massage places, my brother hits them up, he doesn't view it as cheating. He gets sex from his wife on holidays and birthdays, apparently after some complaining to her she has upped it to once a month...but they basically don't get along great, so why would he even want to go there? When asked "Whats it like" he said "Its hardly what you think. Someone fully clothed jerks you off, its not sexy, its merely.....release."

So yeah, I wouldn't go making this out to be some fantastic experience with hot college age women...its likely pretty clinical and cut and dried. *shrug*. Just sayin.

#89 POSTED BY Justin Credible (Part Deux) (24 mths ago)

"I am not morally outraged. How did you get the idea? But i believe that when two people get married they both have duties and rights. If husband wants to outsource sexual pleasure, he should discuss it with his wife, instead of keeping her in the dark."

Sounds to me like you have your interpretation of what a marriage should be...and therein lies the problem. Its not your marriage, its not your place to do or say anything. She married him, he married her, let them just figure out how they make thatsh*t work in the long run.

Going off on a tangent, its like when childless unmarried friends of yours see you with your little kid and say things like, "Psheeewww, hard work, eh?" like they think its this insane rollercoaster ride. Many even dread having kids because they think only of how their lives will be impacted. Not ONE of them knows how awesome kids are and how much they enrich your life and make you a better person. And yet, they talk like they feel your "pain". Pfff, they know nothing of what it means of feels like to truly be a parent.

Dont get me wrong. I am in no way condoning bad behaviour in marriage. I think what my brother does isn't right, but its his marriage, his choice and his wife. Do I think his wife is a cold biyatch, yes, that too, but thats his cross to bear, not mine. Same with my folks. My dad and his wandering dong and my mum staying with him...well, when she was ready to leave him I knew it was not for the wandering dong problem, it was coz of some petty jealousy over money and him having given my sister a huge handout. So did it make sense to leave for that? nope. The thing to remember is, marriage is between two people for better OR worse, its up to them how they interpret that. I wouldn't want to be married to a cheater, but then thats why I picked who I am with. If I find out (on my own merit) that I picked wrong, then I will kick said cheater to the curb...but that will all be on my own terms.

#90 POSTED BY emo257 (24 mths ago)

Guys,
LGMV has a point and for me it's TRUE' on my own Experinced when we go for a massage or even a home service massage with some friends, buddies, we know for a fact that they also offer sex, but when both of us in the room(me & the girl) i told her that i just go for a massage and not for sex. and it happens to me twice. i rejected them for a sex, but when we discussed things with friends with me, i simply said 'yeah it's good i enjoyed it' but the truth is i never have sex to them. -for me, you can't say what was really happened if you didn't see it w/d ur own eyes. ( but i'm not a saint' either. :) i'm married w/ 3 kids.. :)

#91 POSTED BY CaptDave (24 mths ago)

Emo's case is not unusual. A lot of guys don't want to go down that route (excuse the pun), but dare not admit it.

I know one guy who won't engage in penetrative sex at massage establishments, but is OK for the girl to "get handy".

#92 POSTED BY Slammy (23 mths ago)

Such a "male" perspective on this website.

I, for one, would be horrified if my husband went for happy ending handjob massage. That's definitely cheating in my book.

I would also feel horribly betrayed by my close friends if they chose to turn a blind eye and not inform me of their suspicions, so I can deal with the information myself.

I think Juliette has been lampooned on this forum for posting a serious question. It's a very difficult situation: you may know something, she's a good friend of yours, children involved, etc etc. Not sure if you could confront the guy and say, hey, my friend said he saw you at "happy ending massage", and see what the expression on his face is?

Of course, I know the men on this forum would think that was terribly interfering...

We had this discussion years ago, about whether or not to tell the wife if you saw something happen. And the conclusion was (men were involved in this discussion too!) that it would be better to say something to the cheating spouse and let them deal with it...

#93 POSTED BY CaptDave (23 mths ago)

Slammy, I agree it's a legitimate question, But the problem is that the poster has no first hand knowledge that the husband was cheating in any way, shape or form.

The only "proof" is that a self confessed womanizer has accusing the husband of being the same. Sounds a lot like the womanizer is trying to justify himself with an "everybody does it" defense. Hardly reliable.

Would you want to be responsible for breaking up their marriage by spreading gossip that might not even be true ?

#94 POSTED BY malka (23 mths ago)

LOL - women who label those trying to apply logic to distinguishing rumour from fact as 'male' are not doing their gender any favours.

Agree with Capt Dave.

"We had this discussion years ago, about whether or not to tell the wife if you saw something happen. And the conclusion was (men were involved in this discussion too!) that it would be better to say something to the cheating spouse and let them deal with it..."

The key word is SAW while OP only HEARD - big difference!

#95 POSTED BY Slammy (23 mths ago)

Hi Capt Dave,

Quite often, a spouse may only have a suspicion of something and no actual proof but then the truth can come out when you confront that person. Juliette did say that she felt the person was a reliable witness. I think if she did want to pass on the information, she could say it in a way as... she's not sure that it was "him" but it might have been. Then the wife can process the information however she likes.

As for breaking up a marriage with kids... well, you are assuming that staying married is ALWAYS best for the kids. You can read the "divorce" posts on here and see a variety of opinions on that.

If I found out my husband was a serial cheater, I would prefer an early exit, even with kids involved. And I wouldn't mind a "good friend" voicing some suspicions to me that I could try to verify myself.

Of course, everyone's different - some prefer never to know the truth. But the fact is, this woman is unhappy in her marriage anyway! Her husband is making her feel undesirable. She should confront her husband about that!!!

I just wanted to post my viewpoint because I felt Juliette had been unfairly attacked for posing a legit question.

#96 POSTED BY rititt (23 mths ago)

juliette must have her own life. is she so bored that she wanted to be in her friend's shoe, ie dreaming of having her own family but couldn't? i would be so busy with my own life and problems that i wouldn't have the time to get involved and live another life through a friend! just leave that couple alone, it's not your business, it's their life and they should discover the truth on their own.

#97 POSTED BY Loyd Grossman is Miss Venezuela (23 mths ago)

Juliette/Slammy, As a reasonable guess, I would say there is a 15% chance that nothing happened. Your dodgy source wasn't even in the room. If you want to damage the lives of children and a marriage because you think you're probably correct then that is quite shameful. Much worse than going for a happy ending anyway. Slammy, of course you would be upset if you found out your husband went to such a place. But that's one of the risks of being a heterosexual female. You can't change male sexuality because you don't like the fact that it is 100%-concentrated on you.


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