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Sleeping issues
Posted by Havefaith (60 days ago)
My daughter is 7.5 months old. She started sleeping thru the night when she was 8 weeks old (after receiving very good advice on this forum). She started waking up a couple of times in the middle of the night when she was about 3 months old. I would just hold her and rock her for 5 mins and she will go back to sleep. However, I thought it was temporary - and only a night here and there. It has become a regular event. So we decided to follow Gina Ford's advice in The complete sleep guide and would put her down and let her cry it out and only go in every 10 mins to stroke her and say "shhhh".
Is this the right thing to do? We just started last night. In addition, how would you give her a bottle at 10pm if she is in the middle of crying or if she has just cried herself to sleep.
Thanks for your help.
HF
(I am based in Hong Kong)
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Posted by axptguy38 (60 days ago)
Isn't it great how babies change their sleep patterns? I am convinced they do it just to drive parents crazy. "Ok, now they think they have me figured out. What new trick can I throw at them." ;)
I think you should let it go a 10-14 days least with a new "method" before deciding whether it has worked or not. The important thing is to give things time and be consistent.
"10 minutes interval crying it out" worked well for our kids. The important thing is not to give in. Kids will ruthlessly exploit any weakness. You might also want to shorten the interval to 6-8 minutes.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by kiwimmc (57 days ago)
my little one started doing the same thing about the same time ... she is now 9 months. not sure if there is a growth spurt at that point or what was going on but we did a couple of things - we got a grobag sleeping bag as we think she might have been getting cold as she kicks off any blankets, and we have the air con on in her room during the night.
We also stopped doing the 10pm feed - for some reason she did better going from 7pm to 7am without being woken for a bottle, rather than being woken up. But we were also well into 3 meals a day of solids.
We also were doing cry it out and that did mean about a week of disturbed nights as she would wake at some point between 11am and 5am and cry for up to 2 hours even with one of us either sitting with her or going in regularly.
These 3 things were not all done at the same time but over a few weeks, and something worked as she is now doing her regular morning and lunchtime nap (has dropped the late afternoon one), eating well, settling herself to sleep and sleeping all night.
It is so hard when you are in the midst of it and sleep deprived yourself, but you have to stick to it for a few nights and try a few things and one of them will work if you are consistent.
And as axptguy says - then they will find a new thing to perplex you ;-)
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Havefaith (57 days ago)
Axpt38 and kiwimmc,
We have been trying the crying out method since monday night and are quite happy with the results so far. She cried for 1.5 hours the first night and that has reduced to 30 mins now. I would go in between 6 to 10 mins and stroke her and shhhh her. She has been sleeping thru the night since tuesday night - I have not had 8 hours uninterrupted sleep for so long - I almost forgot how it feels.
We have been putting her in grobags since she was about 3 months old. With the results that we have now, I probably wont do anything else for the next few days and see how that goes.
Thanks for your help.
HF
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Havefaith (56 days ago)
Axpat38 and kiwimmc,
Should I being doing crying out method for day time naps? or just the one at 8 pm or 9pm before she sleeps thru the night?
Many thanks,
HF
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by axptguy38 (56 days ago)
"Should I being doing crying out method for day time naps? or just the one at 8 pm or 9pm before she sleeps thru the night? "
In my opinion yes, but perhaps a bit more "gently". However you need to look out with daytime naps and adapt their length continuously depending on whether little one slept well overnight and so forth. This applies especially as little one gets older.
"We have been putting her in grobags since she was about 3 months old. With the results that we have now, I probably wont do anything else for the next few days and see how that goes."
There should be no other kind of bedding (including pillows) for the first year anyway due to SIDS risks.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Havefaith (56 days ago)
Axptguy38,
What does a gentle crying out method means?
Thanks for the bit on SIDs - We intend to keep her in her grobag til she is at least 1 yr old.
Many thanks,
HF
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by axptguy38 (56 days ago)
"What does a gentle crying out method means? "
Hmmm. It's hard to explain. I guess during the day it is sometimes harder for them to sleep, and they may not be that sleepy. So you have to know when to give up and just let them be awake. At night though, you KNOW they need to sleep so you keep going until they surrender.
Or something. ;)
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Havefaith (56 days ago)
Axptguy38,
Understood. Thanks again. :)
HF
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by kiwimmc (54 days ago)
I would second comments on day time - At night I am strict about no eye contact, talking etc but for the daytime naps I am more likely to go in and shush or sing a lullaby, even nurse for a little while to get her to go back to her nap..
And yes the end game is sleep and getting them to settle themselves to sleep so you have to do the day time and the night time in some parallel.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Havefaith (31 days ago)
After 29 days of crying out, our daughter had a relapse. She had been crying less since my last posting - it reduced to 2 mins (max). However, 2 nights ago - she cried for half and hour (and even stood up in her cot to cry- as if she is angry). Tonight she cried for 1 hour - before her 10pm bottle then after her bottle she went straight to bed.
I thought it was because she is teething but she has been been teething for more than 2 weeks and the relapse is new. The other possible reason is my helper rocks her to sleep during the day - so I think our daugther is crying for our helper.
Can you please let me know what you would do if you were me.
HF
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by axptguy38 (30 days ago)
Relapses happen. You just go with the flow and stay consistent.
You might want to talk to the helper so that all the caregivers are consistent.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Havefaith (29 days ago)
Axptguy38, Thanks for your help. I have spoken to our helper. As of last night, our daughter is back to being OK with the crying out method - cried for about 5 mins. HF
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by medical-hk (29 days ago)
dear all please give me advise about 4 month old girl. since she is born she never slept long enough through the night. she only falls sleep while feeding from bottle. otherwise she never fall sleep her own.now she is already 4 months old by this time infant should sleep longer at night but this is not happening in her case. She gets up 3 times at night. sometime she doesn't sleep till 1 am, she gets up 4 am then 7 am, 9 am, 11 am. during day time her nap is not longer then 30min, i be lucky if she can sleep day time more then 2 hours very rearly this happens. her health is fine. she only drink 2 oz milk or maximum 3 oz not more then that and i have to feed every one or two hours. i am tired and exhausted. any advise will be appreciated.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by axptguy38 (29 days ago)
There are various methods for making kids fall asleep on their own. We used "cry it out". We also used it if they woke up at night. The child should to learn to fall back asleep by herself.
- 1-2 hours before bed. Always do the same routine. Avoid excitement like loud/rhythmic music, TV and dim the lights a bit.
- Put baby in crib. Say goodnight. Leave without hesitation.
- If she cries, wait 5-6 minutes. Make sure you use a clock/watch.
- After the time is up, go in. Do not pick her up. Do not turn on the lights. Perhaps stroke her a bit but do not linger. Say night night again and leave.
- Wait 5-6 minutes, etc...
- Repeat until she falls asleep. This may take literally an hour the first time. It will get better.
The other thing is about the milk. She doesn't seem to be drinking a lot. Perhaps she is drowsy. Make sure she is hungry and alert. Take off clothes until she is not warm anymore as that induces drowsiness. Make sure she is sitting up while having her milk. Slowly stretch the time between feeds by 10-20 minutes a day. As the feeds become less frequent she will start eating more.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by purefit (22 days ago)
My child is 14 months and I am not using any crib side pillows or any other side protection is that safe? What if the leg gets caught in between the crib bars?
Also my child goes to bed at nine pm and wakes up at eight and only takes one nap at around 11.30 for an hr or sometimes an hr and half. How many naps should they take?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by bigwhale (21 days ago)
Hi Purefit
Don't use a pillow or side protection for your child. Pillows are not necessary and are a SIDS risk while side protection (AKA bumpers) are for bubs who throw their arms and legs around before they know they have them. It is highly unlikely your child will get a leg caught, but if you are particularly worried you can put them in a Grobag and that will protect there legs.
As for the sleeps. 11 hours overnight and 1.5hours during the day is a little less than they normally need, but each child is different. If you child is happy to play by themselves and can focus on a toy/book/activity for several minutes in the afternoon, then they are getting enough sleep. If they can't, then perhaps putting them to bed earlier and encouraging a second day sleep might help. If you try this option, make the transition slowly ie bring the bedtime forward by 10 minutes each day, until you get to 7 or 7.30pm. My son is 13 months. Goes to bed at 7pm, sleeps 11hour, has two day sleeps of 1.5hours (8.30am 12 noon).
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by axptguy38 (21 days ago)
"What if the leg gets caught in between the crib bars?"
It is unlikely a leg will be caught very often, and in any case, the worst thing that will happen is a screaming baby. As bigwhale mentions, pillows and side protection are not really safe due to SIDS.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Z (21 days ago)
That's pretty much exactly how much my 14 mo sleeps [7-6:30 with a one hour nap around 12:15]. Some kids just need less sleep. One thing that we have found is that by being very strict about what time ours go down for naps and at night we get much better sleep from them. Our helper is wonderful, but in her mind +/- 45 mins is on time, and for my kids we get the best results if we keep it more like +/- 5 mins.
It does seem like that is a pretty long time between waking up from his nap and going to sleep at night. Does he get irritable towards the end of the evening? I once read that kids wake up on average at 7am regardless of what time they go to bed. If you watch him for a few days, you might find that there is also an early window to put him to sleep that will not interfere with his wakeup time.
Bottom line is that if that schedule works well for your family, run with it.
(I am based in Beijing)
Posted by Slammy (21 days ago)
So when do you give kids pillows?
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by axptguy38 (21 days ago)
18-24 months. And even then they need hardly be thick. Just a very thin pillow (3-4 cm) is enough at least up until age 5.
I have even heard no pillows at all before 24 months.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by bigwhale (19 days ago)
In my opinion all baby pillows should be banned by law. A child doesn't need a pillow until they are old enough to be in a full size bed. Why? An adult needs a pillow to maintain the spine in alignment, but babies and young child have straight spines so a pillow is detrimental, a SIDS risk and also causes the back of the head to become flat (as it restricts the bub from moving their head).
Tragically these pillows are very available and come as part of linen packs, in prams and as free gifts with milk formula. Give your child the gift of an egg shaped head and not use a pillow.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by Slammy (18 days ago)
So bigwhale, at what age do you suggest a pillow then? 24 months? (some two-year-olds will migrate to a proper bed at that age...)
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by dadda (18 days ago)
you can get pillows that are very thin & seem to work well as a security blanket type thing.
Our 18 month old loves his pillow. When he lies on the 'big bed' with us he insists on using our pillows (which is ridiculous), but he likes to mimic us.
We bought him a 'sids safe' pillow which is about 1 inch high. It has very big holes drilled into it (about an inch in diamater each) and he loves it. Am sure that it does not make him physicaly more comfortable, but for some reason it does the trick...
(I am based in Hong Kong)
Posted by axptguy38 (18 days ago)
"So bigwhale, at what age do you suggest a pillow then? 24 months? (some two-year-olds will migrate to a proper bed at that age...)"
At 24 months, get a very thin pillow. 2-4 cm thick only. Just like the one you mention. At 5-6 years, go for the "proper" pillow. For the record, our girls migrated to a big bed at 16 months, sans pillow.
(I am based in Hong Kong)
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