Malicious Landlord - can't get back deposit HELP!!

Really need some help or legal advice about tenant rights in HK.


Will try to keep the story short and concise even though emotions are running high at the moment.


My husband and I rented a flat in one of the new development properties in Yuen Long back in June 2011.


Landlord left us alone for first 10 months, then surprised us one day (accompanied with his real-estate agent) to "negotiate" a rental increase. If we don't agree to he will apply to evict us starting that day.


To avoid trouble we just signed a new fixed lease effective two months later. He even made us top up our rental deposit so that it was reflective of 2 months new rent.


Four months later he came back with his real-estate agent friend and tried to evict us anyways. This time he claims he wants the apartment back for his own use. Apparently he claims he can do that if he is taking it back for his own use.


Turns out he was both a landlord and a tenant. His initial story was, he was being evicted by his landlord because he refused to pay the rental increase for his flat. Rather then looking for another flat like normal people, our landlord decided to pass his problem to us and evict us instead. His landlord gave him two months to leave, he decided to give us one month.


He then tried to intimidate us into signing this "mutual agreement" to leave the apartment with no compensation. Since we had only signed a fixed lease 4 months earlier we saw no reason to have to leave and refused to sign the agreement.


After bombarding us with text messages, and threatening phone calls his story changed and advised us he had sold the apartment. We asked about the necessary actions to deal with our current fixed lease, and he said there is only one option... to leave. Our landlord had sold the apartment "vacant without tenants" so will not entertain transferring our lease to the new owners.


At this point, we decided to just let him brew and stay in the apartment as we have a fixed lease. The harassment dragged on for two weeks. At one point we considered moving because all of this was disruptive to our lives. If he was willing to grant us a 2 month rent free period to look for a new apartment and return out deposit in full we will leave, we will leave.


To our surprise, our landlady called and bitched and cursed at us (she's a highschool teacher by the way) then hung up on us. Amongst the foul language, we caught something to the likes of, 2 months free rent you wish. You are not getting your deposit back. You better pay one month then pack up and leave.


So we decided to ignore both irrational husband and wife. They did try one more time to trick us into signing the mutual agreement to move out. This time under the condition that they must be allowed to inspect our apartment before returning our deposit.


We felt that was fair request and arranged for the husband and contractor to visit. The wife of course shows up unannounced and barged into our flat. She also ranted off and made everyone show her their HKID for identification even though we had every right to be the ones kicking her out. I really really regret being the bigger person and not calling the cops on her that day.


Basically, to sum up her unpleasant visit to my apartment, she tried to threaten us with something outrageous like $100,000 HKD in damages. She found a 1" crack in the marble floor in the kitchen. It was there when we moved in and looked like it was already repaired. Rather then replace one or two tiles, she wanted to replace the entire kitchen floor with new marble at our expense. That was it. The crack on the floor.


We disagreed to the claims and showed her to the door. She made one last threat leaving the flat stating that she will sue us in the coming May (when our lease ends) and will have hire people to kick us out by end of May. Then the crazy landlords left us alone until now.


Not knowing if she was throwing around empty threats or not and not having any proof of these threats we did our best to pretend we didn't hear them. All this while we were contemplating whether or not to pay our last 2 months rent. We decided to not pay the first month and see what happens.


Sure enough the hell began. 10 days into not receiving the rent she posted Form 22 on our door and some other documents. She proceeded to do this for another 3 days, also harassing the reception desk at the base of our building. The landlords have now cut out entry pass into the building so that we cannot enter freely into the common areas of the building.


After 10 days of this emotional and mental torture, we just decided to pay the rent. This was the first time we were ever LATE on rent in the entire time we stayed here. We never harassed them or even contacted the landlords for anything.


However, here is our dilemma.


I know that it is illegal for us to not pay rent even though our deposit is equal to the remaining 2 months. It is also apparent that our landlord has nothing to do in life and does not mind the drawn out procedures of playing the system. I also know it is illegal for them to keep our deposit without solid proof that we damage the apartment or some other valid reason.


Since they stated more than once that they will not refund our deposit, I do not feel comfortable paying the last two months rent. However, since they have taken actions to make our lives hell for the last 10 days it seems they will out last us in endurance. Our other option is to pay the last to months rent and take them to small claims court. However, here is my question.... who makes them pay us back our deposit even if we win?


I heard we can apply to the government to have some sort of hold on his deed so that our landlords cannot sell the apartment until they pay us back. Is this true? Or are we basically screwed either way out of our deposit?


Please help. I just find this is so unfair. We didn't even put ONE nail in the wall. When the third party contractor came to check the apartment he was so confused cause he found NOTHING wrong with the apartment. Is there any way we can get the $23 000 HKD in deposit back??

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Please kindly remove this thread. Wanted to post in legal advice and not under Hong Kong Property. Thanks.

The legal question here is:


Can a Fixed lease be terminated early, if a Landlord wants a flat back.


The rest is just emotion - and I have plenty of sympathy for the difficult situation you have been through

I'm a landlord and I am certain they have no way to kick you out unless a) you have come to the end of your tenancy or b) there is a clause which states the landlord can put the rent up after 12 months. I think you have signed a 2 year lease but in fact the clause makes it a 1+1 year contract. Claiming back the apartment for his own use is a throw back to the days of rent control when a landlord could ask a tenant to leave if he needed the proeprty for his own use. I doubt this still applies.

If you have paid the stamping tax of the tenancy agreement, you should be able to file it to small claim court HK


http://www.ird.gov.hk/eng/pdf/irsd119.pdf


Also, complete the C109 form and submit it online (free if submitted within 1 month of execution of tenancy agreement and HKD 305 afterwards) in order to have some sort of protection.


http://www.rvd.gov.hk/doc/tc/forms/cr109c.pdf


Reference: http://www.gov.hk/en/residents/housing/private/buying/leasingDomesticProperty.htm


Hope it helps!

Also check the Estate agent association [http://www.eaa.org.hk/Home_original/tabid/41/language/en-US/Default.aspx]. Always requested for the agent membership number, just make sure they know whatever they said should abide to the association. Do not be blinded by their "bullshit" and trust whatever they say.

Hi there - sorry to hear your situation and what I am about to say may not be of any help either.


I have had 2 landlords forfeit returning the deposit. The first time, I was very new to HK and had no understanding of how things worked so accepted that the damages done amounted to the cost of 2 months rental. The second time I did take the landlord to the court and even won the case. But the courts do not order the police to return the deposit or act on your behalf.

The landlords do what they want to do because they know they have the upper hand in the matter. Following these incidents I started to just inform the landlord at the time of 2 months' notice that he can keep my deposit and that tI will not be paying the 2 months' rental.

@ SG_HK - that's dishonest. The purpose of the deposit is to protect the landlord against damage caused by the tenant - which the landlord will not know about until after the tenant has left. I would have no compunction about getting a judgement for damages from the small claims tribunal against a tenant who owed me money and unleashing a debt collection agency against such a person. Also bear in mind that for unpaid debts, it is possible to get both a banktruptcy order and a stop order on a passport/HKID card - the latter essentially prevents a person leaving HK on that tavel document.


That said, fair wear and tear is not something which entitles a deduction from the deposit. I've been a landlord since I purchased my first property in the early 1990s and only once have I had to deduct anything from the deposit - and that was because the deadbeat failed to pay the last month's rent.

TI - For both flats, there was no damage done and rents paid regularly up until the last month (it was a corporate lease). Both landlords were dishonest - one bought the flat from my previous landlord and came for an inspection so he had no idea what was the state of the apt when I first moved in. Despite that, he told the agent that he saw damages that required him to keep the deposit.


The second one just kept the deposit and did not pay back. he gave no reason and this is why I took him to small claims tribunal but as you have put it yourself, you can win the case, but you still need to pay a debt collector to have your monies retrieved.


After 2 instances, I then started to tell my landlord to keep my deposit and not pay my last 2 months' rental and most obliged. All I am saying is the landlord does have an upper hand in the matter and the tenant has little in his favour.