I'm a first time London-property buyer, through the HK sale show i have purchased one premier 3 bedrooms apartment. I wonder if i could make friends here and let's share about the ambition and experience. THX!
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Im interested to know the details of your property. Did you buy a new build property? Generally new builds are over valued in the UK.... be careful of agents selling property here, they always make the data and the property seem better than it is.
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I have look at many, many new property exhibitions on show here.
The usual numeric is a Gross yield of maybe 5% or so, using the agents' assumptions, and that would leave a net yield of perhaps 3.5-4.0%, and maybe less. Frankly, I don't think that is good enough, since it leaves little protection from possible rent rises.
Recently, I found something in London were I believe I will have a Gross Yield of maybe 6.5-7.0%, and a Net yield over 5.0%. That was so attractive that I am now looking to buy it with a London-based business partner.
So I suppose the long search has paid off
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What district of london is your find? and price range. appreciated.
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It is a place called New Festival Quarter - maybe 10 minutes walk from Canary Wharf.
Photo: http://usera.ImageCave.com/Geologic11/NFQfoto5.jpg
source: http://tinyurl.com/GEI-NFQ
I will send more info in a Private Message
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They made over 30 sales in one weekend in HK
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At the 60% level, you can get a cheap mortgage.
As you push above that level, it gets more and more expensive. You can get an 80-90% mortgage (if your "confirmed" income is high enough), but it will be very expensive.
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I believe it is possible to pay about 2.75% on a floating rate mortgage, provided one does not borrow over 60%
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There's lots of products out there. Here's a good starting point;
Andy Fleming
RBS International
Guernsey, GY1 4BQ
Tel: + 44 (0) 1481 702574
Also barclays (hk), Shanghai commercial, RBS singapore, HSBC premier and there's a few more... Off shore banks lend a minimum of 100K, if you want a smaller mortgage try HSBC premier or a domestic product. Domestic mortgages available from BM and maybe some others, though off-shore ones are cheaper.
John Emmett Cert PFC
International Mortgage Plans
Surrey, KT13 OUA
Mobile + 44 (0) 7989329457
Tel + 44 1932 830660
Website www.international-mortgage-plans.com
Anthony Burke
Charlton Financial Services Ltd.
Head Office: Charlton Financial Services Ltd., Arcadia Business Centre,
Miller Lane, Clydebank, Glasgow, G81 1UJ. Tel: 0141 941 3255
Stuart Marshall .
Liquid
stuart@liquidexpatmortgages.com
UK Mobile : + 44 (0) 77348 70883
Tel: +44 (0) 161 633 5009
Complete Limited – Your Property Finance Partner
paul.carter@complete-ltd.com
12th Floor, 88 Gloucester Road, Wanchai, Hong Kong
Tel: +852 3965 9365 | Mobile: +852 9348 2108 | Fax: +852 3965 9399
You can also apply through a mortgage broker for a fee and will often be advised to re-finance at a later date, which leads to more fees....
I am not a one of the people mentioned above and nor am I a broker, but have talked to the above people when researching UK mortgages. There are a lot more brokers out there, so do your research... I recommend you call all of the above people and for a domestic product this guy:
Michael Moore
Mortgage Consultant
Your Move
Peterborough
Tel: 01733 558855
Lending ratio varies with lender, but 60% for expats is common.
Stay clear of new build property, as it is always over valued, especially the stuff being advertised here in HK. For comparisons on property use; rightmove.com, zoopla, singingpig, propertytribes, http://www.checkmyarea.com etc.... and contact estate local agents for more info on property.
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I heard that two banks are the "most aggressive" in UK property lending at the moment, and one of them is HSBC.
If you are a HK-based premier customer, they will put you in touch with their London office.
=== ===
Any thoughts on Stratford Halo?
It is being shown in HK this weekend.
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FILTH....
Failed In London, Try Hong Kong. Dont buy from any expo in HK - they are overpriced and 9 times out of 10 the bank will not mortgage it at the sellers valuation, so you'll end up stumping up even more money to buy it.
You best bet is to get on a plane and fly there and meet up with agents in the know.
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This is an interesting thread as I myself am from London and have bought a few units over the year. The FILTH ad is quite true - those new developments unfortunately do not rent / re-sell well at all. Local Englishmen know and wont rent that as its also filled with social housing.
I've gotten up to 70% re: funding however thats all banks will lend up to these days.
I've also had a few friends buy off seminar shows here and they've all regretted it. My personal portfolio are properties in Zone 1 only - the market there especially now is stronger than ever, the latest property we bought was in Chelsea just a few months earlier which just settled 2 weeks ago and was rented within 3 days of it on the market.
I am no 'expert' however through experience, location (not newbuilds or size) is the key in London. ie a Chelsea Studio will out perform a new build in Zone 2 or 3 any day.
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Yes. Don't buy here. Even if you fly first class to the UK you will save a packet. I'm British and lived in London for five years - working in The City. Just buy in The Barbican development and you'll be fine.
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Dont buy your London property here...go over there and buy it.
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Hi All,
Back from a trip and very pleased to see there're many good sharing from you guys, cheers!
I have decided to try putting my purchase into the market, aim for a higher price re-sale before the completion. On the other hand, i would still be in favour to learn about the location (N4, Tube: Manor House- Piccadilly Line) and its prospects.
http://prestigehomesgroup.com/property-view.asp?pid=466
Welcome to any advice or comment on this new London property, thank you!
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@davidwonger
Are you aware of social housing effect in new builds?
The London Housing Strategy dictates that all new build developments of more than 15 apartments must provide Affordable/Social Housing (see enclosed) – despite what property salesmen might tell you at the property seminars this is law in the UK and there is no getting around it.
I just dug up an old article from the internet stating "
Many developers worry about the effect it will have on house prices as consider that the social homes will not be maintained to the same standard as those which are owner occupied: indeed housing associations are already seeing their budgets substantially decreased. If the social homes begin to reflect lack of maintenance as
so many do on the social housing estates, it will inevitably reduce house prices in the development and may indeed hinder owners who try to sell their properties.”
The fact is that the London Housing Strategy requires that 50% of new homes are ‘affordable’ and 80% of those affordable homes should be for ‘social rent’.
Preference for social-rented housing is given to:
- people who are homeless
- people occupying unsanitary, overcrowded, or otherwise unsatisfactory housing
- people who need to move for medical or welfare reasons, including ground relating to a disability and
- people who need to move to a particular location - for example, to be nearer to special training opportunities, or special medical facilities - and who would suffer hardship if they were unable to do so.
Notwithstanding this once the property completes you will have a hundred other landlords to compete with to rent out the property.
Make sure you do your due diligence before committing your hard earned money.
I have seen time and time again friends of friends who have bought new build properties in the weekend seminars at the Mandarin and never end up with a product is of true London value.
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Thanks Michael and Walkup2!
Very nice advice n information, cheers!
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I am not a promotional man, however it may be worth contacting the guys at London Direct - I've been in contact with a chap there named Jeff, and they actually seem like they know what they are doing as they only deal in Central London market and their products are in fact good value.
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Walkup said:
"The Waterside Apartments are being sold as Islington which is N1. Actually they are in Manor House/Finsbury Park N4 which is grotty and will gentrify like 'er never. The water is an uninteresting reservoir."
Last time I was in London, I visited Manor House to see the project, and wrote a report.
Here it is:
Yesterday, I actually visited a new project under construction. It was called Woodberry in Manor House.
It was rather beautiful, with a 23 story Tower overlooking a reservoir.
In fact, it looked at least as nice as the advertising brochures I had seen in Hong Kong.
The nice young woman in the marketing suite, was shocked to find a "walk-in" from HK. She did her best to describe the merits of the project. I told her I was yet ready to buy and wanted to have a look around.
The price was nearly GBP 500 per sq foot for a high floor flat. 461 per sf, I think it was.
That was a flat of less than 900 sf on the 23rd floor, with a view towards the city.
My idea was:
If there are enough new flats like this going in, it might "gentrify" the area. I had read about 1,500 new flats to be built. In fact, they are selling under 200 new flats there - a drop in the bucket. The rest are being built new (to a lower spec) and will be turned back to the council for affordable housing.
This will be great for the subsidised tenants who will wind up living there. But there will be little gentrification from the effort. Less than 200 new families (with more money to spend) will be a drop in the bucket.
After seeing the merits of the new development, I wandered around the area. Across the street, I stopped for lunch at a place called Erics Cafe, and ordered a pork chop. It arrived covered with brown gravy and so were the mushy green peas. It took me almost 5 minutes to scrape it off, before I ate it.
The Chinese takeaway next door was closed. Probably for lack of business. Someone from HK or Singapore should buy it. In September 2012, just before the property is completed. The 100+ new owners from the Far East will want a place to eat where they can avoid mushy peas covered with brown gravy.
UNQUOTE
I will be in London again in about two weeks - Is there anything I should see ?
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I have just returned from London, and some may be interested in this report from there...
QUOTE
i am in london now, and had an interesting chat with an estate agent yesterday. he was surprisingly honest, and not overly bullish. in fact, he was in some ways more bearish than the comments here. his office is in the poplar area, near canary wharf
some points:
+ the sales market has changed since 1-2 years ago, and it is much more difficult to find buyers.
+ the "over gbp.250,000" is healthier than the "under gbp.250,000" market - where buyers really struggle to find the required deposits. because of this weakness in prices, you can get higher yields in the lower tier of the market, where yields close to 7% are achievable. in the higher priced sector he has seen buyers "keen to push their money" into the uk property market, bacause they can a higher yield thasn in the banks, and "bricks and mortar" are safer than lending depositing money with wobbly banks.
+ the rental market remains firm, but it is partly related to olympic hype, and he expects there to be a downwards shift in rents after aug-sept next year
+ olympic hype works in an interesting way. landlords are reluctant to sign one year leases unless the price is high enough - at full market, or with a uplift. for existing leases, they prefer to leave the rent on a month to month basis at renewal time, so they will be free to find new tenants in march (or whenever the new olympic related tenants would appear.) they would then hope to sign a 3-6 months lease at a much higher price, and push out the existing tenant,or find a new 12 months tenant that will be desperate enough to pay more.
+ meantime existing tenants are willing to pay a bit more for 12 months leases to get them through the olympic period. when asked if this was pure hype, or there was real new demand coming, he did say that he had rented flats to people who were working on olympics-related projects, mostly construction related. he expects media people, camera men and such to start showing up in march-june, and they would rent flats through august or september. after that, all the extra demand will disappear, shifting rents downwards. And normal tenants will alo know that the olympics are over, so they will be looking for lower rents too
many countries see a drop in their economies after the olympics, so london and the uk are expected to be no different
-DB
UNQUOTE
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Useful Data...
Population statistics for London
Year Population
1 Fewer than 5,000
500 Fewer than 5,000
1066 Est 5,000 - 40,000 (William the Conqueror)
1600 Est 200,000
1650 Est 350,000
1300 Est 50,000 - 100,000
1700 Est 700,000
1801 958,863
1821 1,378,947
1841 1,948,417
1861 2,803,989
1881 3,815,544 (or Greater London 4,776,661)
1891 4,211,056 (or Greater London 5,633,332)
1899 6,528,434 (Greater London)
1939 8,615,245 (Greater London) - population's peak
1951 8,196,978 (Greater London)
1961 7,992,616 (Greater London)
1971 7,452,520 (Greater London)
1981 6,805,000 (Greater London - midyear est)
1991 6,829,300 (Greater London - midyear est)
2001 7,322,400 (Greater London - midyear est)
2002 7,361,600 (Greater London - midyear est)
2003 7,364,100 (Greater London - midyear est)
2004 7,389,100 (Greater London - midyear est)
2005 7,456,100 (Greater London - midyear est)
2006 7,512,400 (Greater London - midyear est)
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A Well-known property Bear, JD, talks about his views of property in London and South East England:
https://youtu.be/mFIH3K1KxfM?si=CtjJ_VqJuP_ylKwQ
Along with MH and interviewer, DF, who writes a widely read column in MoneyWeek.
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The ones they call "cheap" are very tiny flats, and priced at high prices per square foot - although below the even higher prices of Under-construction properties
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