Posted by
OffThePeak
12 yrs ago
This could be a subject whose time has come:
Here's one related question :
Posted by Underdawg (4 days ago):
"Does anyone know anything about the property market on some outlying islands such as Peng Chau and Lamma?"
In addition, there was an article in today's HK Standard, entitled: "Out and About / Some developers have homed in on island sites."
There's some interesting info in the article:
+ Several sites on islands like Lantau and Peng Chau have been sold to developers at prices way below market expectations. (Maybe CYL, the new CE is going to push land sales in such places, that may be the fear that is keeping prices down.)
+ Last month, Sino Land bought a 49,127 sf residential site on Peng Chau for HK$19 milllion. That's only HK$514 per Buildable SF, much lower than estimates. Sino can sell new properties there at HK$2 - 2,500 psf and make a decent profit. (Neighboring properties now sell for between $2,300 - $3,000 psf.
+ Success luxury developments have arisen on Outlying Islands in the past. Examples include: Discovery Bay (HKR Int'l) and Park Island (SHKP.) The key thing that makes this alternative attractive is building effective and relaible transport infrastructure.
It will be interesting to see what Sino has in mind. They have certainly shown a flare for value-creating property development in areas like Tai Kok Tsui, where they have launched projects like: Hermitage and Park Summit.
Please support our advertisers:
Bought a cheap place on Lamma a while back and renovation costs were huge compared to on HK Island. It's a lovely flat now and is getting a good rent, but I wouldn't do it again. I think HK Island (or at least somewhere with vehicular access) is preferable.
You forget to mention the total failure of the luxury development Sea Crest... lol
Please support our advertisers:
Transport to and from JOB LOCATIONS is a key consideration.
But as Z. says, a remote location can also add time and cost to construction and renovation.
Please support our advertisers:
Please support our advertisers:
Yes, I did mean Sea Ranch lol
$500,000 I am surprised anyone would pay that for a place there. I certainly wouldn't!
Please support our advertisers:
"Sea Ranch" sounds like a real value trap, Lloyd. Unless a big developer bought land nearby, and then sorted out the transport.
I think that Sino is clever enough to do that for Peng Chau, which is much closer. Maybe they will want to acquire some more land there first.
There used to be a decent French restaurant on Peng Chau once upon a time. I wonder if it is still there? The French are flooding into HK now. And there might be some mileage in PC branding itself as "French friendly."
Please support our advertisers:
I would pay 300,000 max for Sea Ranch but the management is about 3,000 per month. I think South Lantau will probably be left as a wilderness with logistics etc going up north. Sea Ranch would make a great Bond Villain hide-out. No one ever goes there.
Please support our advertisers:
Please support our advertisers:
When you say "$500,000", is that in HKD? And for what size?
Last weekend during the holidays I went to both Peng Chau and Lamma to do some market research. My first thought when I arrived PC was "wow, this place is very local". I rented a bicycled and explored most of the island and found it to be very beautiful. Nice scenery around the coast and very quiet. In the market area of the island I did not see even one single real estate agent, so I managed to get zero information on any available properties. It looks to me like the village houses are controlled by the people who were born there, and the few bigger developments there do not look very nice. In my opinion the place looks like it has potential though, but unless you can actual buy land and build a house there it's probably not worth it.
Lamma was of course a lot more developed with many real estate agents around. From my research, the average ROI on a property investment is about 5%. So it seems that it would be a slightly better return than HK island. However, the property values there have increased by about 40% in the past 1.5 years according to one of the agents. On average, a 700 sq ft flat with a 700 sq ft rooftop on the main street goes for about hkd3m. And the average rent for something like that is about hkd12k. This is just based on a couple hours of asking around. It doesn't seem like a bad investment but I would have to do more research. Apparently there is a waiting list of buyers for the houses which only come on the market every 6 months or so.
Please support our advertisers:
Thanks for those comments, Ud.
I reckon that's an accurate observation:
"No estate agents... therefore low prices."
Please support our advertisers:
Please support our advertisers:
Lloyd,
If you can just boost your price idea by 10X, you may have a deal.
Have you seen this?:
"This is a stunning apartment, right on the beach, with magnificent sea views from the large balcony. With peaceful surroundings this is the perfect place to escape to at weekends.
1450 sf, 2 bedrooms, double height ceilings and split level accommodation.
Renovated to a very high standard, fully furnished, move-in condition. $2.95m."
/link: http://www.sea-ranch.com.hk/index.html
I like that word "escape" ... with the prison not so far away
Please support our advertisers:
And if you look around a bit... It gets cheaper.
"This 1,050 sq ft two bedrooms apartment has open sea views and a beautiful beach, located 15mins from Cheung Chau Island and one hour from Central."
Price? : $1,300,000 / Per SF = $1,238 psf
That seems a bargain for HK- but I haven't seen it.
Please support our advertisers:
For the record here...
Historical Prices:
Lamma, Cheung Chau, Peng Chau Prices
======
Month : MaWan : DiscBay : SLant. : Ch'ngC : PengCh :
Apr11 : $5,338 : $5,006 : $3,712 : $2,441 : $1,882 psf
May11 : $5,405 : $5,348 : $2,650 : $2,589 : $2,280
Jun.11 : $5,583 : $5,199 : $2,480 : $2,294 : $2,444
July11 : $5,499 : $5,460 : $3,764 : $2,464 : $2,242
Aug11 : $5,457 : $5,385 : $3,655 : $2,329 : $2,537
Sep11 : $5,457 : $4,991 : $3,655 : $2,329 : $2,537
Oct11 : $5,665 : $5,781 : $2,713 : $2,329 : $2,138
Nov11 : $5,511 : $5,477 : $2,713 : $2,329 : $2,138
Dec11 : $5,329 : $5,240 : $5,607 : $2,329 : $4,013
Jan12 : $5,258 : $5,008 : $5,205 : $1,554 : $2,251
Feb12 : $5,356 : $5,356 : $4,899 : $4,257 : $2,377
Mar12: $6,827 : $5,600 : $5,212 : $4,257 : $2,014
======
/source: http://transactions.gohome.com.hk/records/Peng-Chau/en/
I wonder how futures prices will be effected by policies from the Leung administration. Will CYL decide he wants to "develop the islands"?
THIS CHART for ParkIsland/MaWan goes back a bit further:
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2313/parkislandpricegraph.jpg
Please support our advertisers:
With prices averaging maybe $2,000 psf, this sounds too pricey:
Selling Price (HK$): HK$ 4 million/ HK$ 5,714 per sq.ft.
Property Type: Village house
Property Layout: Triplex
Area & District: Lantau Island, Peng Chau
Size (sq.ft.) : 700
Outside area (sq.ft.) : 700
No. of bedroom(s): 3
Question: how does one fit 3BR and 2 baths in 700 sf?
Please support our advertisers:
Remmy
12 yrs ago
Off The Peak - I am a big fan of Park Island and bought a combined unit there like this one: http://parkislandhongkong.blogspot.com/2011/12/combined-units-on-park-island.html
There are also some more upmarket "luxury apartments" on Park Island like this one http://parkislandhongkong.blogspot.com/2011/12/nice-park-island-apartment-for-rent.html
I think Park Island has HUGE long term potential. As a Park Island I can tell you I love living there, and find if excellent quality for the price. Also very peaceful, yet close to HK. What I never liked about Lamma was that the apartments are ramshackle, no and there is not much of an infrastructure. Park Island on the other hand is like a 5-star resort. Some might say its a bit "too perfect" but for it appeals to me. After a busy day in the city its wonderful coming hope to a place that is clean, quite, and lovely ocean views.
Please support our advertisers:
Park Island average prices seems to be about the same as Discovery Bay.
Your comments on the differences (which is better? For whom?) would be appreciated
Please support our advertisers:
Remmy
12 yrs ago
OffThePeak - DB has a larger ex-pat population, and is much better known than Park Island.
DB is more expensive (both to buy and to rent) on DB, and it takes longer to get to DB by ferry from Central that it does to get to Park Island.
Park Island also has bus and taxi access whereas DB does not.
Ferry costs $40 from DB to Central. Only $18 for the ferry from Park Island.
Park Island also has much better facilities, club houses etc.
Also, Park Island is flat, and any steps also have an electronic esculator along side, so its very child friendly, whereas on DB there are hills, and you actually cannot just walk easily around to various parts of the island.
Park Island has a number of free child play centers. On DB, I think you need to pay to use these facilities (I could be wrong about that).
Park Island's expat used to be very small when I first moved there, but its growing now, and the % of expats on Park Island is definately increasing.
So, really quite honestly, I can't think of many advantages that DB has over PI. (Maybe more diverse styles of apartments to choose from?). And also DB has more expats, which some people like (although for me thats really pretty boring).
Interested to hear other's thoughts. I considered closely for investments, but I could not find any compelling reason why DB was a beter buy that PI, especially as Park Island was still much cheaper by comparison.
Please support our advertisers:
Thanks, Remmy.
That is a very useful comparison, and thought-provoking
I do question one comment however.
Your:
"DB is more expensive (both to buy and to rent)"
My data above, shows an average price of $5,600 psf for D-Bay. And I think Park Island is very similar.
Also DB has better infrastructure, such as more restaurants, so maybe there is alimited advantage to Park Island. Thoughts of others are welcome.
Please support our advertisers:
I have heard it said that:
"DB is heaven... for Dogs and Filipino maids."
If you are not one of those, perhaps PI deserves serious consideration.
Tung Chung too, I would add.
Please support our advertisers:
I get the impression that DB is for people who can't quite accept the fact that they are living in HK. A lot of people like it though. However, once they move there, they do tend to disappear. Spooky.
Please support our advertisers:
"Once they move there, they do tend to disappear"
They are at home in their parallel universe.
Please support our advertisers:
Houses in South Lantau are more expensive than North Lantau, by maybe $1-2mn
Id have a look at North Lantau before buying elsewhere. You can try Thomas Law at Tung Chung Properties, who has a bit of a speciality in village houses. If you want a phone number, send me a PM
Please support our advertisers:
We visited PI once last year when we were apartment hunting, unfortunately PI to us is just like a big council estates, with high density tower blocks and an odd tourist attraction - noah's ark theme park. It lacks outdoor space, it's beaches are rather dirty and overcrowded with tourists...we chose DB over Park Island in the end even though PI would have been a cheaper option...
I can see PI is highly rated in this thread, but I personally wouldn't invest in PI.
Please support our advertisers:
in re PI: how is the schooling situation for kids? Any ESF or subsidized options nearby, i.e. a short-ish commute? Not concerned with pre-school and the like but primary. Is DB better for that I assume?
Please support our advertisers:
Not so easy to get children into DB schools, I hear
Please support our advertisers:
As for schools, DB has DBIS, Discovery College (ESF), and potentially a DSS school by 2016. Also there are good number of international schools in Lantau and Tung Chung.
Please support our advertisers:
From the Original Post:
"+ Last month, Sino Land bought a 49,127 sf residential site on Peng Chau for HK$19 milllion. That's only HK$514 per Buildable SF, much lower than estimates. Sino can sell new properties there at HK$2 - 2,500 psf and make a decent profit. (Neighboring properties now sell for between $2,300 - $3,000 psf.)"
=== ===
From today's Standard - this looks like a price advance:
A 12,298 sq ft site on Peng Chau was sold to Ocean Gain Construction (who they?) for HK$15.01 million. With a gross floor area of 9,222 sf, the cost of the site is HK$1,628 per buildable sf
Please support our advertisers:
BOOMING from the Bottom Up - is what is happening
This thread pre-dated the following Headline:
PRICES SURGE ON OUTLYING ISLANDS - today's SCMP
... Lamma, Cheung Chau, and Peng Chau are also booming
"Price surge is hitting some of HK's oulying islands, and shows no sign of easing, agents say"
+ Prices on some islands have risen 15-20 per cent
(Kenneth Yeung, Region Property, on Cheung Chau)
+ CC: Flats formerly below HK$3,000 psf, are now at HK$3,500
+ Homes near pier have risen to HK$4 - 5,000
+ Flat of 1834sf at Treasure Villa sold for $11.8mn, $6,200 psf
+ Rents are up from HK$12 psf, to between $15-16 psf
+ Peng Chau prices are also up by as much as 20 per cent
+ PC: 700sf flats at $700-800K at beg.yr. are now at $1.1 mn
+ Some pay as little as $3000/mo for a 1BR apt.
+ Lamma Island is up perhaps 10%
Please support our advertisers:
Wow. If you need to pay HK$5,000 psf for Cheung Chau, then the worst Mid-levels property has to be at least HK$20,000 psf. The ngovernment is shafted. Massive short squeeze.
Please support our advertisers:
HK is "a machine for making money", and the stock market is not working at the moment, so money is pouring into property.
Leverage is low, so maybe most of the gains are sustainable, if rates do not rise much.
But one of the agents was telling me this morning that he and his friends are really struggling to find something to buy right now.
The opportunity may be RENTING on the high end, near HK$100k per month, because the market has now become very soft there, because so many top bankers have lost their jobs in recent weeks and months.
Soft at the Top, and Hot at the bottom, seems to be an interesting mix. It wll be interesting to see if that "lights a fire" in the middle ground eventually
Please support our advertisers:
It's the lower end playing catch up. The luxury sector has been booming for years now.
Please support our advertisers:
Actually, many "cheaper" flats have out-run Luxury flats (in terms of percentage price appreciation) since the 2009 low.
I remember reading comments back then with people telling me that: "Buy high end luxury flats in prime HK Island locations."
Better advice (up until now) might have been: "Buy what's cheap, since the government's efforts to control prices will hit mainly the high end. And a falling number of housing allowances, will also weigh on luxury demand."
Please support our advertisers:
@OffThePeak - well, CY Leung has certainly dones his bit to push up prices at the bottom end.
Housing allowances have being getting trimmed for several years without impacting the rental market to any extent that I can see. So far, it's been the total number of non-PR's living in HK that has had the bigger impact.
Please support our advertisers:
You must be logged in to be able to reply.
Login now
Copy Link
Facebook
Gmail
Mail