Posted by
cookie09
12 yrs ago
if it's not a structural wall, you are free to knock it down.
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from www.bd.gov.hk (which you would be wise to consult)
Alterations and Additions Works
Any person who intends to carry out alteration or addition building works in existing premises is required by law to appoint an authorized person, and where necessary a registered structural engineer, to prepare and submit plans for the approval of Building Authority under the Buildings Ordinance. He is also required to appoint a registered contractor to carry out the building works.
Examples of alterations and additions works to existing building are:-
constructing a new extension block to an existing building;
adding additional floors or cocklofts to an existing building;
constructing a swimming pool;
linking two or more floors by removal of parts of the floor slab and/or adding internal staircases;
combining two or more units into one by removing the partition walls;
installing cladding or curtain wall to the façade of existing building;
subdividing a unit into smaller units;
adding water tanks, canopies and shelters, structural frames for air-conditioning or other plant, structural supports for advertisement signboards etc; or
removing facilities for persons with a disability.
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there's the law and there's the reality
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i would suggest in light of the current climate regarding UBW, getting permission makes sense, and should be painless as long as what you're doing is just taking out a partition wall...
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Remmy
12 yrs ago
In defence of Cookie09, if its non-stuctrual its usually OK. Need to check body corp rules and get the OK from building dept (which some people do, but many do not).
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"Cookie09 is a well know clown in this forum"
true, especially compared to someone who just signed up yesterday
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fwiw, i'm not suggesting that everyone follows the rules.
as cookie and remmy have stated, many people (including myself) have undertaken UBW, likely with no repercussions
i added an awning to my podium terrace after being denied permission by management; they basically stormed my flat on installation day, made sure I understood that what I was doing was not legal (even though every other podium flat in my complex already had an awning), and then left us to continue the installation...but i can forsee the day when an order to remove all awnings may come...
also, if you look at the floor plans of some buildings, they are purposely designed to allow this type of expansion. a very clear example is Ocean Shores in Tiu Keng Leng...two mirror image neighboring flats sharing a full length partition wall, and realtor ads abound in the area selling duplexed flats there...
it is very common.
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Onyxwhisky,
i gather you are a newbie to HK, so i understand your concern. But i agree with Cookie, you are free to knock it down as long as its not a structural wall.
Unlike most of the illegal structures being targeted in the news, you are talking about an internal alteration which will be known and visible only to yourself. Management have no right to enter your property to inspect (and even if they did, they have no power to do anything), and there is no requirement in HK to have renovations inspected and approved once completed.. hence Cookies advice on law and reality.
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rob_378, i gather you are newbie to HK renovation procedures, so I understand your ignorance...if you live in a flat in a tower, you will have to get a renovation/decoration permit from the management office and pay a damage deposit to cover any communal spaces the workers will traverse. There is NOW WAY you will knock down interior walls without management knowing it...the jackhammering and carting out of construction waste will be a not-so-subtle tip-off...true there is no need for post-construction inspection, but there will certainly be a full accounting to management of what you plan to do and how long it will take.
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Assuming the apartments are connected, apart from getting authorized persons to assess whether the wall is a structural wall, any alteration will have to be done in accordance with the DMC of the building. If the wall is a partition wall, then you may have to submit your alteration application to the relevant government departments, generally the Building Authority and/or other authorities as indicated in the DMC.
If the wall is a structural wall, i.e. load bearing, then in Central Management Ltd. v. Light Field Investment Ltd. ([2010] HKEC 1955, CA) the Court of Appeal said that such all is counted as “common parts” because alterations of it will carry potential consequences on the owners of the whole building. As “common parts” were most likely kept by the developer plus the difficulty of getting alteration approval from government authorities, an application to knock down a structural wall will only have slim chance of success, if not impossible.
We are not sure if you have taken notice of the recent government activities on the UBWs in New Territories, but we are sure you will not want to be in a position to be prosecuted and open to pay a fine later while you still have a chance to figure out what is the correct procedure to connect the apartments.
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Just see some uncertainty on this issue and would like to share my expertise on this.
According to the HK Building Ordinance, every building work alternation required submission to Buildings Department by Authorized Person. However, in case the alternation work does not involve any structural alternative, this kind of work can be exempted. So in case the partition wall involved is not a load-bearing structure, it's legally acceptable under the Ordinance to simply knock down the wall without application to the Buildings Department , subject to any other condition required by DMC or Management. HOWEVER, you are only exempted from the application procedure, you still have to seek advice from a professional (i.e. Authorized Person) whether such work will have contravention to any other building planning regulation. For example, whether your alternation is accepted under the fire code, or any change to the gross floor area, etc. If that's the case, you are still become illegal to do this.
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Funbobby, I've done it before and contrary to your opinion, management did not enter to inspect the renovations.. and a non structural wall was removed without incident.
A Management permitt does not mean they oversee the renovation, and the 20,000 HKD or so that you leave as a deposit is to cover any damage the renovation company may cause to communal spaces.
As Cookie09 pointed out, there is the law and reality. Perhaps I'm more of a newbie than you Bobby.. but clearly what one can learn in a short time, others still haven't grasped.
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your first two comments repeated exactly what I said...what is your point?
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Funbobby, I didn't completely read all your posts. Your advice is spot on, and apologies, especially for my final comment.
I didn't make myself clear also. We certainly informed management of our intent to renovate, but we didn't give full details of our renovation... hence my point that if you choose to pull down a non structural wall, management can't stop you from doing it... and more than likely it will not even be known to them.
Onywhisky, actually, in your opening post you didn't mention that you were asking about the law, and as many have suggested (including funbobby) there are many ways of going about it. How you choose to do it is up to you, but the advice given here (whether you agree with it or not) was given to help you (and others who will read this thread in the future).
Out of curiosity, those who have taken the route of involving BD and fire services, how time and cost consuming is it?
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hmmm, so somehow my information went from 'good' in your eyes to 'has no meaning'...whatever dude...
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