5 years and no ring - am I a fool?

I am a great catch and the "marrying type": well-educated, good-looking, great family, USA, late twenties, fun, fit, and genuinely nice.


I have been with an amazing local man for 5 years who is "not ready to get married again" but loves me, lives with me, and would give me absolutely anything - except marriage and/or a baby. He tells me to be patient. I haven't met his children or his friends because he says the timing isn't right.


When do you know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em... and when to pack your bags and head home to find a nice guy and settle down?


Am I a fool? He's a great catch, too... if I could catch him.

Well, if he has been married before and has children I can understand why he might be reluctant to get married again. How many children does he have and what level of financial suport does he provide to them and his ex-wife? Was the first marriage a difficult one and the divorce acrimonious?


You say he's a great catch (if you could catch him) but you already have caught him as you co-habit. It's 'just' the marriage and the baby bit that is missing.


How old is he? Is there a substantial age gap between you? Try to have a frank discussion with him although I assume you have done this many times before? Find out what is really bugging him. I strongly suspect he still has some issues about his first marriage and/or about marriage per se.


You may not like what you hear but you have to trust your gut instinct. After 5 years if marriage was in the air you would have more positive vibes than you do at the moment.


At least your partner is being honest with you. He is not leading you on. He is telling you that he does not want marriage or children rather than telling you what you want to hear but having no intention to go through with it.


You may need to bite the bullet and walk. Divorced men and women are often (but not always) damaged goods and are probably better off with fellow divorcees. I am sure you will make the right decision. Good luck!

Maybe he believes marriage and having children is killer for a fullfilling relationship. Maybe that's what happened in his previous relationship.

Marriage is for raising kids and to women, it is for security as well.

So ask yourself how important is children and security comparing to your current relationship with him. If you are willing to walk for the chance of family and security for yourself, let him know. Maybe he is too comfortable with his current situation and forgets about what you want. An ultimatum may wake him up.

After five years you still haven't met his children or his friends because the timing isn't right? That sounds as if he has something to hide you from.

Does he travel a lot? Or do regular trips to China?

Methinks that he may not be as single as he has lead you to believe.


Or may be I am just not as trusting as you are of somebody that won't introduce me to their friends or relatives.

Thanks for the comments and suggestions - all of them helpful. Good insight/advice Dr. Strangelove.


How do I lay it on the line and present an ultimatum without sounding unkind? He knows exactly where I stand on the topic(s) and keeps saying it will all happen someday & I need to be patient. Plus, he has taken me into 2 jewelry shops within the past 2 months to look at rings - meanwhile saying he's not ready. Am I being too nice and easy on him? Milk for free?

Milk and benefits for free!

He sounds like a loser to me. How can you have not met his kids or friends after 5 yrs? Obviously he doesn't care for you much if that's the case. Normally, if you have something good, you want to show it off...

Another post for the favorite cowboy of Asiaxpat.


I am going to take your post upside down. Starting from the end and working my way to the beginning.


1. You want to get marry with a guy who clearly told you (probably time and again) that he is not ready to get married again. I think he can say it to you louder but not clearer. You put the pressure on him, and in order to shut you up, he says that he needs time.


Well, I am sorry to inform you that, if he didn't marry you already, chances are he won't marry. After all, he is having all the good stuff of marriage (probably you guys live together and you yourself said you are a great catch for marriage. I bet you guys do all the things married couples do) BUT he doesn't have to deal with the bad things about marriage (alimony and child support if things go south). You kept giving this to him for 5 years, so why would he want to change the deal?


2. You haven't met his kids or friends in 5 YEARS? You sure can not be that [excuse my french in advance] stupid! You are his permanent booty call, that I guarantee you.


3. As a side note, you mentioned you are a great catch and the marrying type? Well, for starters you can serve me the best shrimp you can find that if I don't like shrimps you won't change my mind. Second, your comment of you being 'USA' does not turn me on at all. We all know how 'USA' girls are, and this is why we tend to marry asians (not ABC, of course) or latinas.


So you are such a great catch and yet you can't get the man, even after pushing for 5 years? Well, this tell me that you are not the great catch you think you are...


4. This is going to hurt, but I am doing it for your own good. When a guy says "I am not ready to get marry" he is using what we call "an incomplete sentence". In order to complete the sentence put these words at the end: "With you". Now read the sentence again:


"I am not ready to get marry...with you"

"I don't want to have children...with you"

...


Much better, right? Yep, chances are that once you guys are done he may meet another girl and marry her within a year. We have all heard such stories, right?


So if I were you I wouldn't even give him an ultimatum...sure you already did, right dear? And how did that worked out for ya? Oh, I forgot, you said that he told you to be patient...was that after the ultimatum?


I think you know what to do. By the way, don't let the door smack your fanny on the way out.

Cowboy - a refreshing point of view. Thanks for taking the time to tell me something that my friends won't.

TXcowboy is always spot on!


As a guy, I wldn't wait for 5 yrs to marry a great catch, i marry her immediately! Ur his mistress or as TXCowboy says, booty call. His excuses are really lame for a guy. Dump him.

TXCowboy - Genius ... haha. You should get published. Can't we vote to get him a column on here.. agony uncle type format?


Best sentence.. "I am a great catch and the "marrying type": well-educated, good-looking, great family, USA, late twenties, fun, fit, and genuinely nice." You can never add Modest to that list.

i think he isnt ready...


i have a friend (not hiding behind the "a friend" clause which means me lol) who has been with this guy for 11 years and they were engaged for about 8 of those years. they split up coz the guy wanted the shag around life style, after all those years with her. my poor friend has been traumatized.


my point is, if he isnt ready he isnt ready. just let go, i know its painful. but u just got to learn to live without him.. but at the end of the day after 5years he will never be ready,

The fact that you ask the forum to advice you shows that you know that there is a problem. Trust your gut feeling.


Take control on your life and read the massage that is written 5 ears on the wall.


In fact you read it however you ask the forum to act on it.

Wlpeck - your situation reminds me of what someone close to me went through recently. To make a long story short, my friend was with a guy for a long time too (gave up a promising career to move here for him) and after some years of living here he still seemed reluctant to get married. She was tired of being strung along with his 'wedding promises' so finally gave him an ultimatum and he caved.


They started planning the wedding (paying some serious deposits on things) and a couple of months before the big date, she found out he had been (and still was) cheating on her for a long time ...


Looking back, she said the signs were there all along (e.g. broken promises, reluctance, him freaking out when she turned up at his work as a surprise or not wanting to introduce her to his co-workers) but she did not pick these up at the time as was blinded by her love and trust in him...


But on the other hand, I was very reluctant to marry my bf due to personal family issues (not that I ever 'hid' him ). After his second proposal (and me figuring out my priorities) I agreed. Now when I look back at things, I kick myself for not saying yes sooner as he and our relationship are the best things in my life - we have been together for over a decade and still going strong...


You know your situation best - after reading these posts if you think he is still worth it, you should try to figure out what he is not revealing to you ... is it emotional baggage which can be overcome (like me) or a fear of committment/immaturity(like my friend)?


And then most importantly, decide the best course of action for YOU...


All the best!

Have you thought about going to couples counselling? 5 years is a long time and you need to at least give it a chance by talking to an inpartial 3rd party profesional that gives you and your bf real guidance and support. I'd hate to see you throw everthing away based on the posts you are reading...

just leave him and go and if he wants you he will follow you. you can test him this way. If you follow him he will always lead you where HE wants to. Best luck.

So you met when you were 23, 24? If i was really as great a catch as you say you are, at that age, i would never have considered a divorced man with children.

Why wasn't Cowboy invited to the delusional fiesta?


confused101: "...has been with this guy for 11 years and they were engaged for about 8 of those years...". I know this is outside the topic, but in the old days, people would get "engaged" some 3 or 4 months before getting married. Today, the word "engaged" is used by guys to "keep getting some" for a bit longer. One thing I wonder though, is why women want to hold someone hostage in a marrigage that he doesn't want to have...


waarkool: "...he has left her for a younger mainlander and had a kid almost immediately with the new girlfriend." Thanks for proving my "...with you" rule!


Palanka: "gave up a promising career to move here for him" Again, out-of-topic but...she was an adult and made her own choices. She chose to leave her career and then I can almost hear her using that as an excuse to guilt the guy into a relationship. The guy probably cheated even more as a way to level things ("you force me into marriage so I make a fool of you").


Then you talk about her being "was blinded by her love and trust in him". Allow me to rewrite your sentence: SHE WAS BLINDED BY HER LITTLE PLAN IN HER HEAD TO MARRY THAT GUY AND HAVE THE WEDDING PHOTOS AND BABY SHOWERS. Much better, right?


Nykolai: "couples counselling". When I read your comment I laughed so hard that I fell off my pony. She is his plaything, for cry out loud! That would be like going to couples councelling with a "xiao lao po", if you know what I mean...get real, please!


sginhk: "just leave him and go and if he wants you he will follow you"...and don't forget to have a seat and get yourself a bag of cookies because the wait is going to be long. This said, maybe he will "propose" (ha!) and keep the ball rolling for a bit longer. After all, she is stupid enough to be with the guy for 5 years, so I am sure she will swallow whatever excuse he gives her.


orihippo: "Talk to him. No other way". Yeah, that's the best thing...for him. Talk and delay as much as possible so he can still "get some" with you. Who knows, maybe for another 5 years!


merm: Your comment was the best. How could I miss that? "Hi, I am so great I can only get divorced guys with kids". By the way, I bet you a ride in my ranch that she is now saying "by the time I knew he was divorced and with kids I was already in love with him" or "everybody makes mistakes", to which I do reply "why would you drive a second hand car if you could afford a new one?"...but that would be too harsh, wouldn't it?

Wlpeck, think about it, even if u do get a proposal from him or a ring, you really like the idea of getting your man this way??? Love and Marriage is something that should come voluntarily, where two ppl decided they like to spend the rest of their lives with this particular person. I would not even discuss the issue to him more than once. Obviously, you two have different expectations so why force yourself? Hey you said yourself you are a great catch, start acting like one and move on, don't waste your time and energy into someone that is not that into u, good luck!!

I think it's time for you to turn the tables on him.


Move him from the "boyfriend" column to the "sugar-daddy-slash-booty-call" column while you keep your eye out for a decent boyfriend.

My HK, how much clearer you wanted the guy to be? "I don't introduce my kid to you, I don't introduce my friends to you, and I don't want to be marry".


He could say it louder, he could tatoo it in his forehead, but clearer? I don't think he could be any clearer.


It was the girl the one that needed to step down the princess shoes and smell the flowers.

You are not a fool and you're probably not a booty-call either.


I have the feeling that your boyfriend has some issues with his ex-wife (probably not an ex-wife yet). Many Chinese women prefer to stay married with their husband (after separation) in order to keep face. They know that their husband is with someone else but they just cannot let him go. Divorce is just not a possible option for them.



On the other hand, many Chinese men are uncomfortable to break the family. It is a mix a guilt and of traditional values. That can explain why your boyfriend does not want to introduce you to his kids and his friends (the ones his wife also knows). I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that you are Western. It has to do with the fact that you are the second younger woman.




Is he already divorced?

If yes, does he spend time with his kids?

Are you ready to deal with perpetual ex-wife issues? (Believe me, it is hard to deal with...)

Why do I get the feeling that the replies on this are from people, most likely western men and asian women, who have disdain for or don't like the idea of western women and chinese men couplings?


Hands up here which replies are from western women or chinese men?


As another poster pointed out, very arrogant replies.. I wouldn't put much water in any of them, sounds like they just want to sabotage you and your relationship.. Better stick with decent advice from quality people...

Boy how I love support group jargon.


ineptie wrote "You are not a fool and you're probably not a booty-call either".


Well, let me give you my own "support group" sentence: If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck...is probably a duck.


So she is not a fool, yet she has been 5 years with a guy who kept his family, friends and commitment as far away from her as possible. She is not a booty call, and yet whenever he calls she is there. I think someone ought to go back to English 101.


"Many Chinese women prefer to stay married with their husband (after separation)..." maybe in 1949, but today Chinese women (at least the ones from cities) know that the longer they stay the older they get and the less chances to start again with someone else. Please, do not insult Chinese intelligence!


They stay married when they know themselves cheated for the same two reasons western women do: 1) They think they can rekindle the old flame and/or 2) They don't have what it takes be alone (don't want to work hard, lack of confidence, you name it). I could write a book about this subject alone.


Today's Chinese women (by the way, before you ask me how do I know about this let me tell you I have been with enough of those to get a honorary PhD...if the hubbies just knew...) don't want to break the family for their own selfish reasons.


Allow me to interrupt myself to explain that "traditional values" is the biggest pile of BS I have ever encountered in my life. Not so long ago, US traditional values were thinking that blacks where 3/4 human or that women had no right to equality. European traditional values where having Muslims' heads on poles, throw animals from towers or set a bull's horns on fire and let it go wild (by the way, they still do so today). Traditional values, in most cases, is a way for old farts to control useless losers who will do what they are told because they are far too afraid to make their own decisions in life.


Chinese women who follow those "traditional values" today do the following (again, I refer to city girls): In their 20s they "explore", have fun, bang guys left and right ("relationships" as they call them), and do everything a western woman would do.


Then, when they are 28-35, they do what I call "auditions". They start looking for a guy, any guy, that is stable enough to introduce to her parents and who wants to have a family. Forget about falling in love, that will come in a minute.


Once they have the candidate they "fall in love"; they make themselves believe that the guy is so good that they must love him. Self-induce BS if you ask me. Anyways, within a year they are married because, in order to keep the sham, you can't waste no time. Shall they spend more than a year together they would most likely find out that they despise each other. That is why you often hear that "traditional Chinese courtship is short".


Then marriage comes, and the baby is on his way because they will find some numerical excuse to explain that is best to make the baby "now"; this is a lucky year, this is a lucky month. See, 2009 is 2008+1, so our baby will be "fa" (fortunate)+1...wow, that is super-fortunate. If they marry next year (2010) is no problem because is the Shanghai Expo so that will bring luck to the baby. 2011 is also probably some lucky year for one reason or the other.


At the end of the day, it is all reduced to one thing: Tradition. Once the baby comes out the husband and wife live as roomates. They have been trained to live in that way ever since high school. The husband will have his side fun and so will the wife, and that's the "happy ever after".


Finally, and excuse my french, "perpetual wife issues MY A**". If the guy is "separated" it means he is cheating on his wife, and you should not take part on that. If the guy is divorced he shouldn't see his ex-wife, and if he has a kid he should be in amicable terms but that's it. What's with the BS that the ex-wife still have control over his life? Is he THAT MUCH of a loser? A real man would say "Hello ex, this is my new girlfriend. As you can see, she is way younger, THINNER, and does not bitch all the time. That's why she is the one sharing the bed with me and not you".


Then again, I guess real men are hard to come by.

I think people has missed the point here. It is not the "traditional value", it is all about MONEY. He maybe not want another woman to ENTITLE the share of the "FAMILY FORTUNE". And maybe that's why he is keeping her away from those share holders. And maybe that's why some women have hard time to leave a guy like that, they thought they can always have a shot as long as they stay in.

It happens everywhere no matter what other value people hold. And believe me, I can tell you many real stories like this sort in whatever societies.

Nb. I know Chinese guys often want to work hard and provide for their families, before they feel they can settle down. I don't see why he would string you along for five years in Hong Kong, especially living together when as these forums attest, there are so many opportunities to have non-committal relationships. He probably lost face with the first wife choice and marriage and his family isn't going to take on another person easily, especially a foreign woman, so he's got respect on the line and he's got to make sure it will all work, or he'll not be taken seriously by them for the rest of his life. We hear that family opinion matters alot to Chinese families right? Maybe he can't take his mother giving him an earful or trying to abort the reationship..


But if he's doing everything right and treating you like gold.. maybe talk about the future and find out what are his envisioned time limits.


But lets face it, he actually sounds like one of the good guys...if you read the posts here, many posters would love to have someone who even began to treat them nicely. Don't know how lucky you are!

If he didn't introduce you to his friends and his kids in the past five years, how important you think you're to him?

TXCowboy

you are superb with your words

you can make bestseller writer :-)


had to read it again and again ... lol

I appreciate your words, and without wanting to come too strong, I would love My Hong Kong to point out where am I wrong so we can get a nice discussion out of it.


I won't make it easy on you, though, because the things I write about are things I have seen and thought about time and again. Those things are not true because I said so, but because I have been there. I have made every mistake in the book to prove most of my theories...


Interestingly enough, yesterday I was talking to a friend who got upset about something I told her. She throw the usual "when you are old you will end up alone" in the same way that others write here things like "I am sure he is an old fat poor man". When the only comeback that someone has to counterattack a theory is a personal insult, you know for sure you are correct.


It makes sense, right? I mean, if what I say is wrong, I am sure it would be great for them to say so clearly and directly...

That's what I am talking about. Finally some good input. Now allow me to discuss your "disagreements":


Before I start, let me tell you that I always generalize, and this is not an excuse. Generally, I show the reality of the majority of the population, say 90%. Exceptions validate rules, remmeber.


Let's see. I used to be the kind of guy that would never say no to a nice piece of ass, and thought that all men were the same. Then from time to time I would meet women so amazing that, during that period of time, I would not cheat even when opportunities presented themselves left and right.


This made me change my state of mind about that point. You may not yet be there, because saying that a man won't cheat a wonderful woman means that, when guys cheat, is because their ladies are...far from wonderful.


This is a reality hard to swallow, and again I admit it took me years to realize that myself. Is hard for women because they have to look at themselves in the mirror and say "he cheated on me because I wasn't good enough to keep him". (By the way, before faminazis unleashed their dogs, I am sure the same deal happen to men. I just happen to date only women)


Think about this: You wife/gf give it to you exactly how you want it. Whatever kinky thing you have in mind she is in. In this situation, is simply counterproductive to have an affair with someone else that you don't even know whether she might be half as good as your woman at home. I feel tired just thinking that you have to take that woman out, talk her into it, sneak around, and then good luck trying not to get an STD out of it.


Me? I got women who wouldn't do things I like, or who would require me to "set the mood". Then, I would have a secretary at the office who was ready to go, so I did her.


This said, I will give you this: When you have to go you have to go. If I am horny and my woman is not around, I will do someone else. But then again, I consider that "an special case" because couples are supposed to be together all the time.


The underlining problem is that the guys don't even know they are not attracted to their wives anymore.


Secondly, the huge, overwhelming majority of women set their kids against their dads, specially in cases of "daddy upgrading wife". And they, too, go after the money. If you are not the case, remember that exceptions confirm rules.


Why you don't see this? Simple. 21st century people, and in this case divorced women, have something called "sense of entitlement". You think that, because the baby stayed 9 months inside of you, you have a default right to keep it. Then, since you keep the kid, you should keep the house, too. Then, since the kid has needs, the man has to pay 50% of them. Then, because you happened to earn less than the man, he should give you alimony...this are rights given to you by law, so you are entitled to them...


WRONG. You can't get divorce and say "I want the car, but since the car needs gasoline I want you to pay for it". Actually, you can, but you shouldn't. Babies are as yours as your husbands, and they should be with the person that is most suitable to take care of them. There should never be a "default" parent just because of gender, but a fair trial. Also, whoever wants to keep the baby should pay for it. After all, if you want the joy you shoud take the responsibility, too. I would only accept child support when is freely agreed between the parties, not because is imposed by a judge.


I know what I write sounds crazy, and it took me years of observation to come to these conclusions, but it might be worth to consider what I write.

I'd like to hear a divorced man on this issue. Would you agree wit TxCowboy's statement:


Finally, and excuse my french, "perpetual wife issues MY A**". If the guy is "separated" it means he is cheating on his wife, and you should not take part on that. If the guy is divorced he shouldn't see his ex-wife, and if he has a kid he should be in amicable terms but that's it. What's with the BS that the ex-wife still have control over his life? Is he THAT MUCH of a loser? A real man would say "Hello ex, this is my new girlfriend. As you can see, she is way younger, THINNER, and does not bitch all the time. That's why she is the one sharing the bed with me and not you".


A man acting like that with the mother of his kids is an ASS. Seriously, TXcowboy, you think it is easy to manage a divorce, but it is far more complicated than how you presented it in your mail.

Dear My Hong Kong,

I respect that at least you try to "debate" with him. It shows at least you have some hope that there is some quality of human is good. But I can only tell you that you CANT WIN. Why? Because TXcowboy represents the way the world is. And have you notice that there is one word he never goes by: MORALITY. In his eyes, there are only two types of people: Winner and loser. And winner takes it all. Sad but true, people like him most of the time, comes out on top because...well, they can.

They only do two things: to take and to take some more, regardless by what means, they need no justification.

It seems he is too young to see the consequences. When he does, it is usually too late. Then again, he can always turn religious: what if there IS heaven or hell...


And I want to share with you some thoguhts I have these days: Faith in human is the biggest mistake. Hate can never give peace. And love is to give away. Some people you just have to avoid in life.

My Hong Kong,


1. Babies. Why change focus? What is the relationship between "a baby is a car" and "if you want something, you should take both joy and responsibility"? I like to argue, but don't change the focus, ok?


Tell me, what is wrong in saying that you can't take a baby and expect someone else to pay for it? Where is the nonsense?


2. Getting horny. Again, you changed the focus. When did I give a measure of time in separation between partners? When did I say that after a couple of days we should shag others? When I talk about separation, I am not talking about a few hours or days but more like months. Also, EVEN for a few days, trust me when I tell you that if the morning I take a three-day trip you "deplete me" fully, I won't have the incentive, nor the energy, to even think about trying someone else during that period of time.


However, if the night previous to my three-day trip I look a you sleeping by my side, with your extra few pounds, with your lack of attention to me...well, I am much looking forward to cheat on you.


3. Experience. Another change of focus. I never mention that you "look for a great woman" before you have all your deepest, kinkiest desires out of your system. In fact, I recommend both sexes to have a fair amount of experiences before getting serious with anybody. There is an old Spanish saying "What you don't do when you are single you will do after you get married".


By the way, you just told the story of my life. When I first came to Asia I did so with my girlfriend of 4 years. Within I year I was with someone else. Why? Because the access to so many other women allowed me to compare and to realize that, after all, I don't have to "sacrifice", "compromise" or "work in the relationship". I realize that I can have relationships where I don't need to "have ups and downs". In fact, one of my rules is: "If I am not happy, I am out".


4. To Sinc. "It seems he is too young to see the consequences. When he does, it is usually too late". Is so sad that the best comeback you have to my ideas is "one day you will pay". Do you feel conform thinking that way? You are very right, in this world you are either a winner or a loser, and yet you think I am in the wrong side?


Do you think one day I will be old and lonely? Do you think I have no family? I have 4 nephews and nieces (so far, more to come) who love me as if I was their dad, and brothers and sisters and friends. I have a good job, money in the bank, and even if I am 80 I can knock up a woman and make her pregnant...so tell me, when will it be "too late" for guys like me?


Or you mean religiously speaking? Do you believe in fairy tales? (quoting Carlin) do you believe in a man living in the clouds, that has rules that you must follow and if you don't you will go to a terrible place with fire and death and pain...but he loves you? And he needs your money? Is that what you believe in? Is that how I will "pay"? Because of a magic book that is nothing but a copy of an Egyptian one? Do you know Mitra...way before Jesus?...


But you are very right. Winner takes it all. Is it unfair? I don't think so. After all, it takes balls and determination and intelligence and a strong spirit to be a winner. And by the way, hate doesn't cut it. I don't hate women, or anybody for that matter. I just play the game and try to outsmart my opponents, thats all.

TXcowby, thank you for replying to my comment on you earlier. That gives me a chance to continue my thoughts earlier.

I have no ill wish to anyone including you. I said it is too late that means when you realize it, the damage TO YOU has been done. I have some age on me so I can tell you that one day, you look back in life, there are really FEW people that truly loved you besides your blood family. And you have turned them into your enemy who love to see you go down in drain. And if you have daughters, no matter how much they love you regardless what their mother told them, one day, what you did to other women happened to them, what you are going to say to them: Go to the fat farm and lose some weight??? Or coach your soon to be ex-son-in-law: Lie like a man???And one day, your son grows up just like you, the daddy cool, only smarter: no marriage and babies, who is going to carry your family name??? Well, all that may not seem so important for you since you can always pregnant a 28 year old Asian sweetheart when you turn 82 right? Hey, since the world is full of jack*ss like you, she can always settle for less, way less, and you’d better keep telling her everyday that young hunks like that are no good son of b*(&ch, right?

About the end, you might not worry now, since you have a long way ahead to go on with your winning the games and I am sure you won’t lack of loser opponents. Sad fact of life is you can’t always win and you will lose one day. Then you have to look at the mirror only to see how pathetic you are. Just like all the losers you had surpassed in your life.

Even sadder part for you is those losers in your past; now they all have something you don’t have, Loved and peace.

Sinc, I would like to reply to your comments, but I think we better open another thread because I don't like threads to change topics.


1. "when you realize it, the damage TO YOU has been done". "there are really FEW people that truly loved you besides your blood family"


This is wrong in 2 ways. First, you take for granted that your family will love you no matter what, which, while generally true, is not something you should bet on. You also take for granted that your kids will take care of you, but we will come to that later. Secondly, I have friends that I met when I was 6 and we have a love relationship as we were brothers and sisters.


2. "...And you have turned them into your enemy who love to see you go down in drain..." Turned who against me? The women I date are not my friends. I have female friends, but the women I date are for a whole different purpose altogether. And why should they hate me? Because I don't compromise? Because I don't make promises? If a woman hates me because she can't "get her way" she is not good friend material to begin with, right? I would understand hate if I lie to them, but then if I lie to them what do I care? Also, by the time they hate me I already got what I wanted :)


3. "And if you have daughters, no matter how much they love you regardless what their mother told them, one day, what you did to other women happened to them, what you are going to say to them: Go to the fat farm and lose some weight???"


Firstly you assume I want to have children, but I am going to play along. Assuming I have a daughter, you better believe that I will be the first one to ask her to lose weight if she is fat. You see, to be a good father, or a good person, begins with being honest. I know losers tell their daughters "don't worry, beauty is on the inside, and when a good man meets you he will loves you for who you are". However, the reality is, being fat is a sign of weakness of character AND is ugly. If I love my daughter I should be the first one to point that out...

...but I don't have kids.


4. "And one day, your son grows up just like you, the daddy cool, only smarter: no marriage and babies, who is going to carry your family name?"


Err...I hate to state the obvious but I just wrote that I have several brothers and sisters, and 4 nephews and nieces. I would say that my DNA is damn well represented. You see, I don't have that kind of ego that I need "little pieces of me" in this world. Then again, I haven't say I don't want children. In fact, I love kids, but that is a whole different topic.


5. "you can always pregnant a 28 year old Asian sweetheart when you turn 82 right?"


Err...yes. Problem being?


6. "Hey, since the world is full of jack*ss like you, she can always settle for less, way less, and you’d better keep telling her everyday that young hunks like that are no good son of b*(&ch, right?"


You've got a mouth in you, right? Is funny how you started talking about "no ill will", but then again, as I always say, once one run out of intelligent arguments one start with the insults.


Now, to your sentence, I do not understand why would I be considered "less", but then again what do I care? When I have a 28yo hot asian chick when I am 82, what do I care? Also, yesterday, today, and tomorrow, I don't need to force anyone to stay with me. I am not an old, overweight woman, and I don't need to use scare tactics. My 28yo girl can leave anytime because the next one is already waiting around the corner.


7. "Sad fact of life is you can’t always win and you will lose one day."


Wow...another great argument. One day God will punish me, right? Or Buda? Or maybe Allah? Actually, you CAN win always, at least this game. Allow me to ellaborate. By the way, this works for both sexes: When you are a real man/woman, when you love yourself, when you work "smart" (not work hard), when you save money, when the first time a woman tells you "if you don't do this..." you show her where the door is and how to use it, when you don't give up a bit of your freedom...you can never lose.


This is what I believe in and what I preach, and this is what worked for me wonders ever since I began believing in myself. When you say "nobody will step on me" and you mean it, YOU CAN'T LOSE.


Now you will come with something like "one day you will fall in love and that woman will step on you..." WRONG. It won't happen, because my character is already formed. Did I love women before? Sure. Will I love again? Sure. But as much as I love anyone, the second this person crosses the line she is OUT. I don't press the rewind button, and I don't give second chances.


Unlike losers, I truly mean what I say when I don't allow people to step on me, and the reason I write this here and now is because (at the risk of sound too egocentric) I want people to be like me, at least on this area.


I am sick and tired of reading about women waiting 5 years for a wedding ring. Women being used and thrown away. Men staying in sexless marriages...what is going on with the world? When will you learn to grab the world by the balls and take what is yours?!


In this forum, and as long as Ed is kind enough to keep me, I will keep telling things as they are, without insulting anyone (unlike you).


8. " Then you have to look at the mirror only to see how pathetic you are. Just like all the losers you had surpassed in your life."


Wow...so much for no ill wishes. So tell me, how pathetic am I? Let me review: Do I have friends? Yup. Money? Check! Do I have any kind of debt, mortgage, credit card bills, anything like that? Nope. Do I get laid? You bet! Do I have a job that pays well where I can do what I like? Do I have a locing family? You betcha!


I am sorry. Your emotional comment really look like "I hate this guy because I don't have what it takes to be like him". Then again, is easier to seek revenge than to see improvement.


9. "Even sadder part for you is those losers in your past; now they all have something you don’t have"


That is true. They have something I don't: Misery.


For Esoteric. I am sorry about your friend, but to be frank, If I was disfigured I would kill myself. And nope, that's not a sign of weakness but a sign of being sensible: Some people don't realize that life is about quality, and not quantity...

>>Let's say you were my husband, TXcowboy, we have a kid together, 10 year old athletic looking boy, and then we got divorced for whatever reason.


Now, I want to keep the kid and you agree. Our kid got used to have a computer at home and after school activities. With my salary, I can feed him and of course give him loads of love, but that's it really.


1. Don't you have an interest in seeing our kid?

2. Don't you want to contribute a little so our child gets good education and a better start in life?<<


My Hong Kong, let's just say that even if hypothetically TXcowboy did not agree that you were to be the main carer of the child you would have a 90% chance of getting custody anyway were the matter to be decided to be a court. You don't have to ask that question.


Secondly, even if TXcowboy wanted to see his hypothetical son if you did not give access you would make it very hard for him to do so without TXcowboy having to spend a lot of time and money fighting through the Courts. Many men give up.


Thirdly, if the father did not contribute financially he would end up in Court with a costs order and an order to pay the arrears, have his earnings garnered or bailiffs on his doorstep following judgement and face possible imprisonment for wilful refusal to pay.


Now apply all this to the guy in the OP's initial post. He is already separated from his child(ren) from his first marriage. I would say this is largely the reason he won't commit again. For sure, the guy is in the wrong for leading the OP on (and the OP has to deal with this) but I can understand his position. Many men in that position would have to think very hard before doing it a second time.

I am happy that we are going back to the thread, and you will see how.


Besides what Dr. Strangelove wrote (which is quite correct) I would like My Honk Kong yo FULLY quote me. Since you don't do so, I will do it myself; this is what I wrote about babies:


"Babies are as yours as your husbands, and they should be with the person that is most suitable to take care of them. There should never be a "default" parent just because of gender, but a fair trial. Also, whoever wants to keep the baby should pay for it. After all, if you want the joy you shoud take the responsibility, too. I would only accept child support when is freely agreed between the parties, not because is imposed by a judge."


Now, to your case.


The reality is, whether I want to see the kid or not, it doesn't matter because the usual case is that my partner will have the kid (as a female this goes by default), and I would have to pay for it (that's the way it is in court). Then, she will usually poison the kid's mind against me because "I damaged the family", so the kid will probably don't want to see me. Some parents would fight this and try to keep seeing the kid. Me? I don't know what I would do (I don't have kids) but I always recommended to let it go.


In other words, unless that the kid is old enough, s/he will hate you because the mother will see to that, so you may as well let the kid go. Talk to your employer, get minimum wages on paper so in most countries you will be excempt of child support and have new, unpoisoned kids with someone else (if you still want kids, of course).


That whole "do you want to see your kid? Then pay" is a feminazi trap, and I know better than picking losing battles. The kid is gone, so don't throw money at it because it will go to the momma and her desperate dates.


I guess one reason why the guy of the story doesn't want to marry again is because he got screw in court, probably by having his ex using the kid as a weapon, but I have seen people getting married with others...


...my theory is still as before: HE DOESN'T WANT TO MARRY...TO HER.

With one or two caveats TXcowboy is correct. The caveats being that paying for access to your child post separation or divorce is not just a feminist trap (I am not going to say feminazi) it is also something that biased family courts in many Western countries uphold. Effectively, it is state-sponsored kidnapping.


The other caveat is where TXC wrote he would only accept child-support when it is freely agreed between the parties, not because it is imposed by a judge. Nice try TXC. Default on child-support and very quickly you will not know what has hit you. The courts will crucify you. Very quickly. You will realise that you have a lot of responsibilities and very few rights. Your next move will be to get a vasectomy.


But I agree with everything else the Cowboy says.

Wha! Lots of time has been spent in this thread and I hope the OP already gets her answer. The thing is tht 5 years of waiting period sounds quite unnautral to me. If she is willing to wait so long, any reason she shouldn't wait any longer? Maybe she had been happy for the situation and now she wanted more?

I know a story that a man had a mistress on the side for some years and his wife found out about it. He then tried to reconcile with his wife and failed. They divorced and he never married the mistress even she cried and cried... So maybe that is different situation for the OP. But if 5 years is not enough, another 50 years won't be either.


The last is to respond to nice comment of TXcowboy: since you will kill yourself if you lose, better let you win.

sicn, nice story. Men seldom (not never, just seldom) marry the mistress. The mistress is usually not some hot chick, but someone who maybe is not so pretty but is available, dumb, and don't ask questions. When the guy gets divorced there is no point to keep a not-so-attractive dumb girl. He then go get himself a younger, hotter model.


My Hong Kong, you didn't need to tell your story, it was obvious. And on that note, I don't mind women trying to get every penny they can. The world is for the taken.


Regarding esoteric's comment, one can get old and be healthy. But if I am disfigured, or if I need someone to wipe my ass...well, I think one should know when time is up. Quality of life over quantity of life, that's my motto.

sorry to say, but 5years with this guy and you haven't met any of his friends? not one?


that's totally weird. ask yourself if you're prepared to waste another 5years of your life like this.


just what is it exactly about him that makes him such a great catch anyway? is it money?

Look, there is no point in discussing this with him anymore, you had 5 years to talk about it. If you didn't meet his friends yet - he is either not commited to you at all, or just a very strange person. (I can understand if he doesn't introduce you to his kids.)

Either you love him enough to wait....but then give yourself a time frame: say one year.

Or, if you can't wait, dump him. If he loves you, he'll come back with a ring.

Lot of great "Reality Bites" posts on here and I think, OP, its important that you take a good look at yourself and make that decision to walk away.


Why do I say this? Well, do you really want to marry the guy who asked you only coz you gave him an ultimatum? Really? Marry me or I leave? Yeah, thats rich! Do you know how many folks get married this way? I'll tell you: A LOT! And you think they end up happy and in 20 years saying "Best effin decision of my LIFE, baby!!!!"


Er, No.


You want to know what else? "I want babies!" becomes an ever worse war cry the older the birds get. So if you are in your late 20's and want babies, I suggest you kick this fool to the curb and start searching for greener pastures. You have no idea how many male friends I know right now who are not keen on marriage, not keen on kids, and are dating 33 year old birds who "don't want to pressure" them but "do want to know where its going". *SMH* NOWHERE gf! What will happen is that 5 years later it will all go tits up and that bf will be dating another 33 year old until she is too old for kids and she will cry about how she gave him "the best years of her life" waaaaah.


The reason there are so many 30 something birds who are gaggin for their first marriage or their first kid is because they wasted their 20's dating fools like the one you are dating. Don't be the fool.


I am a divorcee, I have a kid, my partner is totally involved in being a part of my kids life when he is around and we have only been together a few years, but this has been the case from the start. This has been the case with other partners I have had since my divorce several years ago. You think you have a "great catch"? How so? How is it you never questioned the fact you never met his kids? How is it you think that its normal for you to not have met his friends? 5 years? You didn't question how odd that is? I dunno about you, but I think thats just not done!


I socialize with my friends and my partner comes with, and vice versa. Thats when you have a great catch on your hands.


And I agree with TXCowboy on a lot of things...when you are with the right one, you don't need to look around the corner in hope of something or someone better, the shoe just fits. Its always amazed me when people say "And he cheated on HER! She's so beautiful, she's so thin!" Pshhh, maybe she is a lousy communicator or a crap lay. Beauty doesn't translate into a tri-athlete in the bedroom. Beauty will fade, and when it does and all the botox in the world can't keep that forehead from crumbling, all you are left with is someone who probably wasn't that funny to begin with, probably couldn't tell you who Chaucer was and has not held a frikken job for the last few decades! And no, telling the maid what to do doesn't count as a job.


The reality is: You are not with a great catch. And if you think you are such a great catch, trust me, if you were, you'd be married right now.


I have never thought I was a great catch, I have flaws, we all do. But we all also deserve to be happy, but its something that takes drive and perseverence in order to remain committed to...happiness doesn't just happen, you work on yourself and then you understand what it is and what it takes to get there. You asked the question: Am I a fool?


Well, you know the answer already, its been staring you in the face for a while now, its why you came on here in the vain hope that there would be pie in the sky dreamers to tell you that you were not. But you know the answer is YES. The thing is, what are you going to do about it? How far invested in your flat are you? can you kick him out or do you have to move out? If you have to move out, will he help you move? If you have had such a great go of it, maybe it should go smooth...afterall, do you REALLY want to marry someone you guilted into a decision with an ultimatum?


Ladies: If a man wants you, he will say so. If he wants to marry you, he will say so. If he wants you to be the gut full of his child, he will make that known! Trust me, if he says he aint ready, he simply isnt ready for you and he never will be...so quit waiting around for him to grow up or change his mind, he has a brain and he knows already what he wants, you just arent hearing him when he says it.

poor wl


from an innocent request for advice - from a girl with a healthy dose of self confidence - the thread has seen you and your man receive initial words of sympathy, followed by doubts about the true nature and value of your commitment to each other, to finally the conclusion that neither you or he are actually good catches at all, or in a relationship that is worth saving.


Maybe your man is gun shy after his first divorce and maybe he really does love you. Seeing that you are a good catch, do hope you find true happiness.


Make your case clear, let him know how you feel about him and tell him that, if not marriage now, at least you expect to be engaged in the near future. which lets you know you are important to him. You deserve that much after the patience you have shown. You have a right to be concerned and say something to him if you feel you are starting to get too old to play the waiting game.


If he values you, as you believe he does, and he is worth your time and effort, then he will make a commitment to you and set a timetable to make it happen. If he doesn't then it's probably best to let him go. Who knows, the thought of losing you forever may prompt him into action and if he doesn't well, despite how good he is, you're probably better off being with someone who doesn't dither as much.


What is telling is way in which the replies have morphed into very negative comments about either, you, your man or both, and your relationship. There seems to be a racial bias against your situation - in this post and on this website. And I wonder whether it is because you are a western woman who has found a great local Chinese guy. There seems to be an underlying disbelief here that this is not even possible - that is, it is not possible that such a man exists and that a great Western girl like yourself would find a local guy that attractive. And if it is the case, well 'something must be wrong'. Finally posters have come to the conclusion is that this great relationship you have 'isn't' that good and that neither are you or your guy.


How different this thread would have developed had the situation been a great Chinese girl with a 'wonderful' western guy.... the bias is obvious.


Good luck.

wow...so many comments and thoughts.

if i may give u an opinion, wl, it's better for you to start fresh while you still have time.


time is seldom a good friend for women. by the time he will finally and literally said that "i am not gonna marry you", u have spent too much time, effort, everything.


for men, time is not really a big deal. some younger chicks are even considering mature men are more attractive.


so, the longer u keep this, the loser u are. sorry if this is too harsh.


and, don't even think about so-called traditional values. by living together with you, he already live WITHOUT the traditional value.

Wlpeck your bf already has all he wants.


He has a great woman that he lives with(might as well already be married).

He has children.

He has friends and family (that he doesn't want you to meet after FIVE years)


Sounds to me that he's happy with his life, and you're not. You guys are in two different places in your life. You wanta move forward and experience things that just about every woman wants to while he's been there, done that. He's already experienced a marriage, you haven't! He already has children, you don't! He's telling you to be patient but the truth is he may never want these things. I think you need to find a man that wants the same things out of life as you. One of the biggest mistakes us women make is that we sit around and wait for our men to change or we try to change them. You can't do that cause before you know it 5, 8, 10 years go by and he's still the same. It's a hard decision to make but I'm sure you'll make the right one. Good Luck!

@wlpeck, what happened? Did you meet another guy who ended up to be the love of your life?

yea wlpeck, what happened?

the comments got me thinking about the faith in relationships..

your case can definitely prove some of the assumptions above..

and would like to know how did you slove your case.

cheers

Yes, I would also love to know what happened!

I am in a similar situation: been with my bf for more than 3 years, and also waiting for him to propose to me. I have met all his friends and family though, but I just really don't understand why men can be so scared to commit! ( I also have a tread here 'why doesn't he propose'). Reading your story and all the comments, really made me think and question my own relationship.


Good luck to you!