Ok, I know this is going to get a lot of people mad, but I am considering debarking our 5 year old pomeranian.
She is not a chronic barker, but barks when she hears sounds from outside or when people are coming into our home. For a small dog, her barks are very loud! Of course, dogs bark for various reasons, but her barks are causing problems. Where we live does not allow dogs, especially when there are complaints from neighbors. We once got a letter from the management telling us to get rid of our dog. We made a big stink about it and got them to retract the letter (long story). I'm sure it's just a matter of time that we get another letter.
Also, the barks wake up our 10 month old baby. Any parents who has babies will know this is a big deal.
Before moving to this apartment complex, we had hired a dog trainer for this issue. However, it has not made any difference on the barking.
She is a part of our family and we want to keep her until dies, as one should. There are no two ways about it. I know many people consider the surgery cruel, but I feel like I am being even more cruel yo her yelling at her every time she barks, and that is many times a day.
Is it wrong to consider the surgery?
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Devon
16 yrs ago
frenchfries, I've sent you a PM
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cara, thank you for ur input. i agree with what you said about training. it's not so much the dog that needs to be trained, but it's the owner who needs the training. The trainer trained us (my husgand and i) to act certain ways to establish hierarchy in the house. sticking to this is supposed to eventually stop the barking, but it hasn't worked. we were very committed in this whole training thing, but since it didn't work, we resorted to saying 'no' firmly whenever she barked. that didn't work either, and to this day, we are saying 'no' everytime. the 'no' became much louder than how we started it, but every which way we try, it just doesn't work. we think she has a persistant personality.
thanks for the suggestion on the book. we will look into it, but honestly, it would be difficult to implement new regimes at this time. a baby takes up so much of our time! i don't even know when the last time i read a book was!
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thundercatchergo,
i'm very much interested in the citronella collar! thanks for the suggestion! do u know where i can get it in hk?
cara,
dvd, yes, that's a great idea! can i ask though, what is the theory he teaches? is it the pack hierarchy thing?
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You can buy bark control collar in pet shop which is in causeway bay . It is not much harm to dog as well . It is better than operation , because opeartion sound like a bit abnormal for the dog . You can use that collar , it will produce some electric shock to dog when bark. Then your dog will not bark it. The control have 3 level , small dog can use the lowest one will be fine. I have bichon fraise , he bark as well. Once I put the collar he no longer bark even I show him the collar he stop barking now.. I hope this help.
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silkfabricus,
thanks for the input, but i'm not interested in the shock collar. i want to try the citronella collar. i'll try some pet shops.
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People talk, often yell and shout, and dogs bark. If you don't like it, find your dog a new home where they understand dogs. Try having citronella sprayed in your face every time you open your mouth and see how you like it.
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HongKongDogRescue,
When I posted my thread, I knew I was going to get some disagreeing posts. I am not sure if I made myself clear, but I do NOT want in any way harm of hurt my dog. We love her very much. It is our unfortunate circumstances that made us think of what some people would call 'inhumane' solutions. We are only thinking of these solutions because we want to be with her until her last breath.
If you are not going to offer any constructive suggestions, please do not post replies here. Different views do not mean they are wrong.
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Frenchfries, you say your dog isn't a chronic barker but you live in a place that doesn't allow dogs. Therefore, your dog doesn't really have a berking problem, the problem is only that you have a dog where you're not supposed to. Views may differ, of course, but it's not a matter of opinion that you aren't supposed to have a dog at all, it's a fact. Mutilating a dog and depriving it of its ability to bark is not only very cruel, it may even be illegal. The answer would surely be to move to somewhere where dogs ARE allowed, or is that really too obvious?
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HongKongDogresuce suggesstion is totally right. If you decide to use citronella spray collar . pls read following notes from research ..
http://www.drugs.com/npp/citronella-oil.html
Toxicology
Animal toxicity studies have shown that citronella oil has an LD 50 in mice of 4600 mg/kg and in rats of 7200 mg/kg. A dose of 1 to 4 mL/kg given by stomach tube in rabbits caused paralysis, coma, and death. At least 1 case of death has been reported in a child who ingested an unknown quantity of citronella oil. A review of 5 cases of childhood citronella oil poisoning suggests that dilution of the oil following ingestion may be sufficient to treat most cases of ingestion and that emesis may be induced with a relatively low risk of major pulmonary complications. If spontaneous vomiting has occurred, observation for respiratory symptoms is required.
Since you have 10 month old baby it is not suitable for that kind of chemical at your house. I have used dog electric collar just once or twice and did proper research before I use for my dogs , he bark when no one at home . The device only emit the shock about 1 second to dog when the sensor detect dog barking . The shock is like the insect bite to dog . It is really minor and no side effect at all. I have discussed with doctor before using it because I am more than worry to harm my dog from this .
Anyway just sharing all about it to get some idea. The choice is yours :-)
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All I can say is THANK GOD for HONG KONG DOG rescue these people really do an amazing job here and they know what they are talking about.
FRENCH FRIES - you mentioned in one of your earlier reples " but it's the owner who needs the training " so let's see you eat your words and you try the collar on yourself first before placing it on your dog (you said in another reply of yours )
" we want to be with her until her last breath " would that be her last citronella breath ????
You might be very thankful of that bark one of these days, I was, as my dogs woke me up in the early hours of the morning to alert me to a man breaking into my home. I have to agree with the HKDR reply why not just move to a place which allows dogs if you really want to be with your dog until it's last breath.
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Moving to another place is not a choice at this time, and I am not about to share my personal matters on this forum. Hong Kong Dog Rescue definately does a great job, no doubt about that, but I do not appreciate sarcastic or twisted comments on something I am considering, just because of difference in views/philosophies (Thanks for that, Click Click). I love dogs, just as much as some of those who have expressed hatred towards me.
I would like to thank those who have posted helpful remarks. I would like to close this thread, as I do not intend to turn the topic into a battle.
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Frenchfries just wants a solution or advice, I guess.
I just moved into a place where the management has said that new owners are not allowed unless the former owner had one. Owners who already have a dog can continue having the dog.
Now, I got my dog from the HKDR and I am NOT intending to return it. I want a humane solution where my dog who is rather barky, will bark less. We paid $60,000 within the three years we have had him for his back surgery. We could have put him to sleep but we did not.
We take him for walks twice a day.
One piece of advice I had was if a Caucasian speaks to the management about how cruel it is to get rid of a slightly limping dog. They might turn a blind eye.
However, if neighbours complained, then we have a problem. I have heard of a machine that emits sound (more humane I guess but I stand corrected) that only a dog can hear. It will stop the dog from barking.
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Hi martialartslady, i just ordered the barking control device from amazon, my friend from San Francisco is going to bring it back to me this month, do you know if this device work ? i got five dogs, one cocker spaniel and four poodles, the youngest one, who is 8 months old, will bark for a few mins when i leave home in the morning at 0750, even though my neighbour did not say anything, still i feel bad, i really hope this device work for her
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Martialartslady, this is not good. I will be contacting you privately. As for Joe, these devices are cruel and should be banned. Just because it's inconvenient for you to have a dog that barks (which is, after all, a natural thing for them to do) to use torture to try and stop it is totally wrong. Try it on yourself and see. Like it? I don't think so.
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frenchfries ... if you like it or not, animal cruelty IS NOT a matter of opinion. having your dog's vocal cords cut because it's an inconvenience to you IS animal cruelty.
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would you consider ear deafening surgery for your baby (does this even exist)?
if not, then dont debark your dog.
let us know which vet will carry out such operation in hk.
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hello, all
we have not gone ahead with any method of making our dog bark less. no surgery or collars. our baby has gotten used to the occasional barking and none of our neighbors have complained (yet). so, i suppose everybody's happy???
the surgery was going to be an absolute last resort and i still don't think it's cruel to carry out such surgery in order to keep our dog with us. a lot of people have said on this thread along the lines of, 'how would u like it if somebody takes ur voice away', or 'would u consider ear deafening surgery', etc.. as much as i love dogs, they are not humans and making dogs/humans comparison is not valid for me.
if need be, i would still rather look at debarking my dog and living together than abandoning her. abandoning my dog is totally out of the question. if we have no choice but to move out of this apartment complex but we absolutely cannot move due to various reasons, i would look for a vet that will perform the surgery. sorry, folks.
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bark control device is different from the one that put on our doggies neck, you can put this device at your living room and it emits a loudn ultrasonic tone that only dogs can hear, it will activated automatically by dogs bark or manually by the owner, the place that i am living now allows me to keep pets, but i don't want them to bark early in the morning at 0745 when i leave home to work, my neighbors never complained about them, but in order to consider others, i prefer to try this
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Devon
15 yrs ago
frenchfries - I'm interested in what the dog trainer did in order to try to stop the barking. What method did he/she use?
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devon,
it was the pack theory. we had to establish ourselves as the pack leader in order to take her job away. job, meaning, alerting the others (us) in her pack with her barking whenever there's 'danger' and other leader-like behavious, i.e. walking ahead of of us, taking charge of when she wants to play, greeting people first, etc.. interesting theory and makes absolute sense. we practiced what we have learnt from the training, which worked on our dog, except for the barking.....
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Hi,
We used a bark collar and just put water in the sprayer. Our dog does not bark when she has it on, and it only took one or two sprays to get her to learn to be quiet. It is humane. Originally we tried a water spray bottle, but the dog may associate the spray with you, not the bark. Try the collar- it works.
Caren
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Devon
15 yrs ago
frenchfries - try this. It's a method of training called flooding where the dog is subjected to a situation it reacts to without the chance of escape. So in your case with the dog barking at the door (is it the doorbell she reacts to?) have someone, say a friend come over and have that friend stand with the door open so the dog can see and ring the doorbell. If the dog barks, ignore her and ring again. Continue to ring the bell (say every 10 - 15 seconds) until the dog doesn't react then praise her like mad and shower her with treats! You may have to do this for a few days, and initially do it twice a day (say mid morning and mid afternoon) until she no longer reacts. Next have the friend ring the bell with the door shut. I used this method on two dogs a while ago and within 20 minutes the barking had stopped. I did use a clicker in training them. Works wonders! I had the owner stand in her bedroom and when I rang the bell, both dogs went and found her and never made a sound. It's important to reward the dog's silence and ingore her barking. Consistency is vital for the method to work.
Before you start give her a couple of treats so she knows you have them and you have her attention.
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consistency is bloody hard, I can't get my dogs to stop jumping up when I come in the front door and they've scratched all the door frames..
I can't understand why anyone would seriously consider that debarking not be cruel and that it be an option ..
If someone is willing to adopt your dog that will not debark it, then I think that personally to me would be in the dog's best interest. Dogs, bark, that's what they do...... it is training and consistency .. it's a shame that most animals get either put to sleep or debarked because of situations beyond their control, which is usually the owners faults.
I agree that we shouldn't make any dog/human comparisons to be honest.. let's face it, we don't castrate men (although I'm starting to think the world would be a better place if we do). We don't declaw our kids or cut out their vocal chords when they are screaming the house down. I certainly don't think there can be any comparisons made at all.
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This thread started 231 days ago so I think it's time to move on.
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