Posted by
hkmummy
13 yrs ago
Ok I have entered into the nightmare of finding schools for our son who will be 3 this month. He is in kindergarten now so am looking for when he is 4/5 depending on school type. Has anyone had any experience with the VICTORIA SHANGHAI ACADEMY and St Stephens College in Stanley please? We are having to look at alternatives for ESF, HKIS and PIS I think as the waiting lists are horrendous. Any information will be greatly received. Thanks
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First thing to do is relax. He is three. He won't become dumb or suddenly get left behind and fail to get into Harvard, Oxford or Yale. I'm a teacher with two girls and you don't need to put undue pressure on yourself by stressing out. Being a parent here can get you caught up in what you call a 'nightmare'. Think it's blown out of all proportion.
Nothing wrong with Victoria, not sure about St S C, try Starters in Wan Chai, Woodlands... Or you little place down the road.
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Yes am aware of the pressure and I had promised myself not to get caught up in it all but seem to be on the verge of entry! Thanks for your reassurances. Well appreciated!
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richardkey. I couldn't disagree with you more - and I am a former teacher with two kids. The competition is horrendous but it's just part of HK life and you have to accept it. The alternative is that your kid gets left behind and ends up living in HK only able to speak English (if you opt for intl schools). I'm a westerner and my wife is Chinese. We are putting our kids through local schools as we intend to stay here. However, even you don't intend to stay here long term, if you put them into local schools they will be able to read and write Chinese and probably be more disciplined. If I were you, I would just put your child into the nearest local school. Three year-olds are like sponges and having these extra skills will make him/her more employable in later life. Also, he/she will learn English grammar which has been more or less banned from modern-day teaching in English/international schools. If you speak English at home, the English will not suffer.
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Thanks to all your comments much appreciated. Actually our son is Chinese and we are from UK and wont be here for ever but for a good while longer at least. This is why I have begun to look at local schools.
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Hugie
13 yrs ago
my wife and I are NOT chinese, our son is in P2 in a local primary school. He speaks fluent canto, pretty good reading and writing too. I think you need to choose your primary school carefully. Not all are the same. Find one that is not competitive, and not one of these huge primary schools. My son's school is very small with only one class per level, not much pressure! Good luck......
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It is incredibly stressful.
I thought it would be a great Idea to put our 3 year old in a local kindergarten - he's now almost 4. My wife is Hk Chinese and I am western.
We did this so that his Chinese would improve. But this has spectacularly backfired on us and more so our litle chap.
He receives 2-3 pieces of homework per night and 5 for the weekend. At 3 years of age this is insane.
Because it needs written Chinese exp, I cannot help. So my wife is doing 1-2 hours homework per night, which means less time to be with her family (us).
Case example "Design a soup. List out all the ingredients of the soup and how you would prepare it"
Bloody ridiculous.
I have had to correct his English study book as the grammar was incredibly awful. It was clear that whoever proof-read it was not a native English speaker.
I received an immediate apology from the school as well as the assurance that they would cover the book in little stickers to ensure the mistakes were not seen until the published could re-print the books the folowing year.
Then they sent home more books which were also wrong. So I corrected them and sent them back, receiving another apology.
My son speaks beautiful English, almost Etonian in form. He has a high vocabulary because we take the time to communicate at home.
You can then imagine my utmost surprise when he gets sent home marked with C's for his English.
This turns out that because we've successfully taught him phonics at home, he was not as adept at recognising higher-case ABCD. To a local school this is more impotant than understanding the sounds, which leads to reading (at least for our little guy).
It was 3 weeks ago that I started to hear him speaking 'Chinglish'. He was pronouncing words and letters in a true Hong Kong fashion. When he started to pronounce Z as "ee-zed", which is a HK anomally then I knew that it was just going downhill.
In effect they started to erode the hard work that we have put in to ensure his English is at Native level.
Now many people will ask, well why did you put him in a local kindergarten. Well simple. This is our home. This is where he will grow-up.
His Cantonese is fine, but he now hates school because to him, it's not fun, it's not about exploring and interaction, it's parrot fashion 'learning'.
We've now pulled him out and will be sending somewhere more international (not ESF) but with an element of Putonghua.
Unfortunately according to ESF, I have also shot myself in the foot by marrying a HK local. Even though our primary language at home is English, my son gets a lower ranking for chance of a place at ESF than (for example) a Shanghainese couple, who's primary language at home is not English.
How ironic.
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Dennyboy & hkmummy
I work with parents on this issue and I do empathize as I've been through it myself!
Dennyboy - My only suggestion to you is that ESF is not the only option. IMO, it's way overrated and, if you'd like at least some CHinese and native English, HK offers options. Granted, at your son's age these options are limited but they exist.
hkmummy - All schools that others have suggested vary wildly. I'd suggest you draw up a list of 'must-haves', 'nice-to-haves' as well as decide what you can afford/want to spend, a curriculum decision (based on your staying in HK or leaving) and language choices. As I said to Dennyboy, HK has many options. I'd say you are looking into this at the right time - you can never be too early. Your decision on a kindergarten is almost as important as it will greatly influence what schools he may be a fit for.
All the best!
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Dennyboy - Scrap that, I re-read your post. It's a crazy situation, I agree!
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Wow thanks to both posts and to Dennyboy what you tell me is what I was afraid of re local schools. Some people have said the same. So your experiences have helped my decision making easier in some respects, thank you!
hkwaffle - I think I am doing as you suggest since you kind of have to have a list like you suggest or you will end up in a bit of a mess. I am looking at ESF, British International and HKIS as a back up. Our funds may not be in an issue as the company have agreed to cover this (thank god!!). My son is already in K1 at a local English speaking Kindergarten and loves it so I am happy for him to remain there if this is at all possible. Thanks again for your contribution I have really appreciated the information
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The Kellett is British International School, Pok Fu Lam.....
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Nice Loyd Grossman! I read back through my post and agree with you. It was terrible advice to give to say 'relax' and 'don't panic'. You are clearly very wise.
I wonder if you yourself applied to the ESF or other such schools and were rejected? There seems to be some angst against the English medium here. They teach Mandarin in the ESF other intl. schools so don't get your point there? Trilingual kids are great yes, but for some people the need to learn Cantonese is not there.
Dennyboy, you also were rejected by the ESF and then say it's 'over rated'. As a parent with two kids there- it's brilliant! I couldn't be happier. They stay in the system, they go to university simple as that and good enough. And have a good experience on the way. I don't teach there btw.
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Richarkey, please re-read my post again.
At no stage did I ever say ESF was overrated. You are confusing my post with HKWaffle.
I'd jump at an ESF place right away.
BlackAmex - "I hope that you understand my point."
Actually I don't understand any of your post at all.
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blackamex - am baffled as to your point, sorry!
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Denny, I stand corrected, apologies.
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Ok the Kellett online describes itself as THE BRITISH INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL. I am sorry if there has been some mistakes made on my part! I am baffled by some comments by blackamexcard and it seems my thread has opened some sort of 'can of worms'!! So am out now. Thanks everyone for all the useful information made earlier.
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blackamexcard: i think you've inadvertently made the argument against going to local schools.
cara: most ppl call kellett that. never heard of it referred to as the british international school in any conversation i've had.
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also want to add that the stories here are deterring me from sending my daughter (22m) to a local school. it'd be nice for her to be trilingual, however, i feel that it is more important that she speaks english with native fluency. i have a lot of interns at my work who went to the best secondary schools here (dbs, dgs, etc.) and are now students at hku/hkust, and their level of english, while passable, is not native. on that note, could anyone advise which between fis and gsis has a better putonghoa program?
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richardkey. For the record, I have never applied to ESF. As for the kids getting Mandarin lessons at ESF, I don't think that can compensate for being taught through the medium of Mandarin (or even through the medium of Cantonese and switching to mandarin later). Also, how many Chinese characters are taught? Are the kids pushed at ESF or do they take your relaxed approach and miss out on a period of their lives when they can absorb a large amount of info? Also very silly to neglect Cantonese if you are born and brought up in HK. It's local dialect here and in a large part of southern China. Can you imagine being born and brought up in England and not be able to speak English? I think local schools are much tougher but you get a better education and there is more discipline.
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johnk348 GSIS Int'l section has no Putonghua in the KG grades and some in Primary. I don't see much to choose between them in terms of Putonghua - neither particularly strong. You'd choose one of those schools based on other factors. One thing parents don't seem to like about GSIS is the half day. They start super early and finish about lunchtime.
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Lloyd, if your wife weren't Chinese how would you go about educating your kids in a local chinese school?
Also, the school you have your kids in is famous and has an international section. I'ts not the typical local school as the focus is on Putonhua, right?
You are an ex-teacher who has taught in a local school?
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matches. They can keep up with the work themselves, up to a point, however I would hire a tutor or send them to a tutorial school just to make sure. Most HK primary schools teach through the medium of Cantonese - and I assume there is also some Mandarin. Yes, the school I sent my kids to (Kiangsu and Chekiang) is the only Mandarin-medium government primary school. I put them through the local section. Not the only westerner to do this. I went to pick up my daughter the other day and saw some blonde kid chattering away to the bus auntie in fluent Cantonese (so he has obviously picked up both). The last time I taught was in England about 25 years ago. However, if you choose to go down this route, you have to toe the line. Homework - several hours a night - has to be handed in and they take a very dim view of parents turning up and complaining about the slightest thing. Also, in local schools 70/100 is a poor mark. You need to be getting in the 90s to get into a decent secondary school. My eldest daughter did fine but the younger one is finding it tough.
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Thanks Lloyd, I appreciate your information, and I think people need to know that their are good local schools and not so good ones, their used to be a banding from one to five.. The Kiangsu would be an automatic 1 I would think.. hard to enter.. most of the hong kong population would have been educated in band 3-5 and most aren't expected to and don't ever expect to pay taxes..you can draw your own conclusions from that.. the government doesn't need to import blue collar workers.. it works perfectly.
blackamexcard70:
You are right, that I.O. types can be inherent and that some smart kids are probably going to find the way, whatever the school. However, while for some it might be about the prestige of private schools, for others.. like me.. if I were back in Australia, public school is where I would send my child, of course still checking on the standards and values held by the school. Here, there is not a sense of access to education for all, their isn't the ability to cater for diverse needs in many local schools except maybe the small ones who are desperate to stay open so they will go out of their way to cater. Otherwise it's a one size fits all education system and if you aren't local and your mum can't read the homework, which does not usually include child-friendly instructions and when their is an immense load of this work night after night.. you will probably be like the other 80 percent of kids in your year who do speak and read the language but still have terrible marks..I've been listening to screaming all morning from the classroom next to me, serious and sustained scary highly-strung screaming from the teacher to grade one students.. from one of the more academic teachers sadly.
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Matches. Primary schools aren't graded. Kiangsu primary school is good but the secondary school doesn't have a good reputation. Now the bands are only 1-3, I think, and the government is trying to even things out. Not sure what you mean by your blue collar comment, I assume you mean the population is over-educated for the jobs they do - which I agree with. However, if you were born in HK and only speak English, what are your job opportunities in HK if you wish to stay in your home town? It's basically food and beverage.
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If anyone would like a completely professional overview, based on fact and devoid of politics and emotion, please see http://www.tuition.com.hk/school-guide/
or give us a call on 31883940
We are Hong Kong's only independent school place advisory, staffed by teachers and part of a group offering private schooling as well.
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Thank you for that dannyjh!!!
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dannyjh. Does your guide cover local HK schools?
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Hong Kong is a mess for schooling at all levels, dodgy government policy and too many personal interest groups. So what with that, the pollution and stupid property prices I am off, enough is enough and the benefits no longer outweigh the disadvantages for a family living and working here. I know nowhere is perfect and the grass may not be much greener and all that but for those who are not earning uber salaries HK is not an easy option.
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Cowleyp. Each to their own. I think HK is great for schooling, if you're kids are young enough to get into the local system, and personal security is great. Not much in the way of drug use, stabbings, teenage pregnancies, burglaries, and exams damaged by grade inflation etc. That's why I prefer it to the UK.
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You may look at some of the Non Chinese Speaking schools on Hong Kong island. These schools offer an English medium for teaching, your child will learn Cantonese daily and Putonghua. all good in the long run. These schools also offer a great range of extra curricular activities (ECA) for the children to learn culture, music and sports. Also there is generally a large international contingent within the schools without being labelled as an international school and paying international school fees. Try looking at Po Kok Primary School in Happy Valley, since becoming an NCS school they are expanding by 1 class every year so they must be doing something right. the school is on Shan Kwong Road, big yellow and red building.
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If you're enrolling your child in a local school thinking you'll save money...think again. We did with our children because we wanted them to learn cantonese, but also because it was our only affordable option at the time. However, my wife and I don't read or write Chinese and can no longer help with their homework. We are now faced with tutor bills which far exceed the monthly tuition of an ESF school.
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vak
13 yrs ago
There was an interesting debate on the radio 2 days ago. While the local mum wanted her kid to be an OVERACHIEVER in everything (not sure what the mother's background was??), another mum said rightly that she would rather have a kid who was average at school but a HAPPIER HUMAN being when the kid was out of school. A happy childhood would reflect in the relationships the child would have when grown up as a human being.
From an academic point of view Hk is far better than most countries where most expats living here come from. The results were shown in a PISA score last month. it involved 500000 kids from around the globe involved in a test of maths, Science and English for 14-15 yr olds. The results were a bit of a shock to most. The 1st city was Shanghai (incidentally the kids there had never taken this exam before), Second was South Korea, Third was Finland , Hk came 4th and Singapore 5th out of a global total of 75 countries.
I have many expat friends who took up Mandarin in University and are fluent speakers and sucesfull in whatever profession they have chosen.
Personally we are happy with the local ESF education quality and if my kid chosses to be a Master in Mandarin even at a later age so be it.
While the Mainlanders are focussing on making their kids global with Fluency in English the debate in HK rages on about teaching (mostly Expat) kids mandarin. The local Govt policy has certainly failed Post 97 with kids from local schools being neither proficient in Mandarin or English. The grass on the other side is definitely different.
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Lucky. How much are you paying? Don't you think it's great investment?
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I'm so glad I had options. My almost 5 year old son is in K2 and gets 60% English/40% Putonghua in an IB based school in Mui Wo. At home he has English and another European language.
I was also stressed about securing a school place for him for this year but am keeping him where he is as his kinder is expanding to include P1, P2 and P3 from 2012. Bradbury or Discovery college were the targets but now that we have this, I must say it's a relief.
He recognizes and copies Chinese characters, sings songs, follows instructions, asks questions all in chinese and this is after less than 2 years of Mandarin instruction. In English and can construct words and sentences by himself and is achieving more than what many of my friends with similar aged kids are in other schools.
He has small class sizes (8 kids 2 adults) and all of the teachers and assistants are fully qualified early years teachers.
We jumped through all of the hoops, applying to multiple schools for P1 2012 and only got 1 interview for a standby place at Bradbury. We went to the interview and were told he passed and was on the standby list. In a way, I'm glad he didn't get a spot at Bradbury, as good as it is, because then the poor little guy wold have 2 hours of transit each way at age 5 which is not fair. He has a class size capped at 15 and his English medium teacher is just phenomenal. The school has plenty of kids coming from Tung Chung and Discovery Bay and is really something special.
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Thell
13 yrs ago
St. Stephens primary feeds into a secondary which is a highly reputed DSS so the primary (which I don't think is DSS) is very competitive to get into. Several of our son's (5 yrs old) classmates applied from what is considered a good feeder kindergarten (Lingnan) and only 1 out of about 10 or so was offered a place.
It's tough to get in, on a par with other high-profile DSS schools (like St Paul's Coed, DBS etc.) because although not as prestigious it's considered relatively lower pressure for the Chinese system so is very popular.
I'd be careful in the local system. Whilst there are some good schools (including Lloyd's recommendation of Kiangsu Chekiang which I think similar to St. Stephen's feeds into a DSS secondary) these are the exception to the general standard. I work at HKU and see the outcome of the majority of the local schools - students who are good at examinations and pragmatic, but to generalise outside professional degrees would not be competitive with typical students entering top universities in USA/UK. It will become even more problematic with the new curriculum as most local schools will be going into the new DSE examinations at 17 under 3-3-4 curriculum so will only feed into Hong Kong universities and not even have option of overseas university application as they'll be leaving school a year earlier. Of course some of the exceptional DSS schools will do everything they can to offer alternatives like IB etc., but those options won't be available in normal non-DSS Hong Kong state schools.
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Dear hkmummy,
Don't really post on this forum but the title intrigued me having been through the process mysefl.
If you choose an english only medium for kindergarten, IMHO, you will close your child off to many of the local schools. To be frank, they are not there to teach chinese from a zero level. You only have to put yourself in the schools position - how can they teach in a language (i.e. chinese) that a child has only minimal comprehension of?
For the ESF schools, they need to know the child has the ability to learn in english before they will accept a child to the school.
Overall, I think it's not an unreasonable policy.
If you really want to keep the local school option open (inc St Stephen's Stanley), then the decision starts now and your child has to go to a chinese speaking kindergarten. Overall, it's not really that bad an option because a child's language development and ear for a language is best done before the age of 6. If you want to continue the english kindergarten, then think of an option of chinese kindergarten on half days. Describe it as a "chinese language activity centre" rather than "school" to make yourself feel better.
The chinese kindergarten school will also give report cards - you must keep these at hand for school application. Many of the parents also send in a portfolio of the child. It sounds horrific but not really that bad. We just stuck in family photos of holidays/activities (even the trip to Natural History museum). It so happened we sent the children to gymnastics for exercise and coordination. I had taken a few snaps of them participating and stuck it in the portfolio.
Bear in mind that no one school is perfect - each has it's issues whether local or english speaking.
Definitely for local primary schools (inc DSS), yes, the english is less likely to be native level. My daughter does speak HK english grammar which I do try to correct at home. Whilst it is partly frustrating, the pragmatist approach is to say language development is slower when using two languages. I teach her to understand there is a difference between "HK english" and the english I use. :-)
Local primary schools have a greater level of homework. Although people from overseas argue the dubious benefits of a such a regime, it does mean the child is more disciplined. Some parents view these as good habits to develop. The other reason for the local schools excessive workload is that the child will have to be active in chinese. As a subject, it does need more time to be put in. It's simple really - learning two languages needs more time than just one language. If you are not able to assist in chinese yourself because of a lack of chinese fluency (in written language/grammar/comprehension), then you will need to hire a tutor for chinese help.
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flickserve, I appreciate your comments and agree with you entirely in fact. I have been to the Victoria Shanghai Academy at Aberdeen and they teach Mandarin and English and yes there is a large home work load due to having to learn the chinese characters etc. Since our son is Chinese I am determined he should learn and respect his chinese roots including the language. I think he will regret this later if we do not help him now.
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This event might just be just the thing for one or more of the posters here...
http://www.austcham.com.hk/events/detail.asp?evtID=202
Education: the confusing school landscape of Hong Kong explained
Thursday, 8 March 2012
This session is for relocating families, or families who are seeking more knowledge about the schooling options available in Hong Kong. You will learn about:
● Strategies for finding a suitable school placement and a checklist for completing school applications
● Understanding the admission policy and waitlists for schools
● The school programs available in Hong Kong for students with a variety of needs.
Justine Campbell, Alex Gibbs and Kathryn Sly will guide you through the educational landscape of Hong Kong, from the admissions process to the schooling options available; from learning support considerations to strategies for coping with the transition – a compact session about schooling options and considerations in Hong Kong.
Speakers:
Justine Campbell, Life Coach and Transitions Expert, (www.etalglobal.com) will provide practical strategies to find the right fit for your child and how to approach the application process. She will also provide practical strategies on managing the range of emotions faced when trying to get your child into a suitable school and what to do thereafter to give your child the best chance of success in their new school.
Alex Gibbs has consulted for and worked at numerous international schools in Hong Kong over the past 12 years and is currently Director of Development and Community Relations at Australian International School Hong Kong (AISHK). He will talk from a school’s perspective about the factors that contribute to making a school, and its students, successful. He will share the admissions policies and testing procedures at AISHK and discuss the difficulties schools and parents are now facing with waitlists.
Kathryn Sly is a teacher and counsellor with 20 years experience working within schools teaching children with a variety of educational, social, emotional and physical challenges. She is currently working in her own business (www.easypeasyservices.com) and is an associate at Blurton Family Development Centre (www.blurton-fdc.com), offering counselling for individuals and tutoring for children. Kath will acquaint you with the special education opportunities available in Hong Kong at preschool, primary and high school levels as well as availability of options for more specialized programs.
Date:
Thursday 8 March 2012
Time:
Registration from 12.30pm; Presentation 12.45pm [sharp]
Event ends at approximately 2.00pm
Venue:
CPA Australia, 20/F Tai Yau Building, 181 Johnston Road, Wanchai
Cost:
HK$200 AustCham Members HK$400 Non-members
* 20% OFF DISCOUNT for booking more than THREE sessions at a time
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A lot of the well meaning advice here would be from the perspective of overseas people who are not of chinese ethnicity. Britishchinese will have a slightly different perspective on the potential frustrations suffered. Many have limited chinese written skills but some can almost be totally fluent in verbal communication. (Some have no chinese verbal skills whatsoever).
But most of them would agree and hope their child can be bilingual, especially in an environment such as HK.
For hkmummy, I think she would really hope her child can grow up and attain a proficiency in chinese that surpasses her own. And yet also keep the benefits of fluency in english as a result of her own education in the UK.
That is why I suggested the local kindergarten option first. I very rarely hear of children who have been to english speaking kindergarten going to chinese primary school.
There were a few points raised by previous posters which I'd like to comment on:
1) LMGV seems to have a well balanced perspective - or rather it rather fits in with my perspective :-)
2) For dennyboy's experience, I would say the kindergarten is the wrong one for him. However, labelling all local kindergartens with the same tarbrush would be very unfair. Lingnam nursery, which is a popular choice of nursery for locals and overseas parents, does not do this at all. Although his school is teaching english poorly, it may suffice for others of lesser ambition.
3) That brings to Cara's point and mine about speaking english at home. Just teach them there is a diference.
4) Haven't a clue what blackamexcard is going on about....but it must have a point.
5) Thell's comment assumes once in local primary school, the child stays in the local system all the way to university level. Also the generalisation to HKU students is a little vague. Is Thell referring to local HK students who have been through the system? (in which case the comparison is less valid). Or does Thell refer to students who have been through the local chinese HK system but speak native english at home and socially? That would be more relevant. Again, is the sample population totally representative as many children leave HK for higher education.
Some students do change midway from the local system out - the circumstances will depend on an individual child's ability and home situation. Also, how open the receiving school is. I have heard of local HKers who have applied to transfer their child to ESF schools midway through the primary years. I think they will come under a very low priority for the receiving school - after all, who would you give priority to if you were the decision maker? A child who copes with the local system, passes the exams and the parents are local HKers fluent in chinese, OR, a child who fails the chinese exams (and is obviously struggling), parents not fluent in chinese (hence difficult social support) and is capable of learning in english.
hkmummy, why don't you hook up with other overseas chinese who have had a predominantly overseas education? I am sure you would get a very balanced opinion on their choice of education and school for a child. Perhaps less emotive as well. :-)
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Thanks flickserve but I and my husband are both British and not Chinese at all our son is HK Chinese and adopted from HK.
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Thell
13 yrs ago
A good local kindergarten will keep your options open then. If both British then you should probably still get ESF priority in a couple of years when child older if you want to at least have the option (for mixed couples ESF seemed to be denying priority to children who could speak Cantonese last couple of years, even if English was the child's first language).
Suggest Lingnan as a great option with good teachers, although the kindergarten is moving from Happy Valley to near Shau Kei Wan next year so you'd probably need to live East-ish. I'm sure there are plenty of other good options others might recommend.
Yes good point Flickserve. I'm just noting that the change in the local education system is a disaster for students who might want to go through local system and then apply to overseas universities. I suspect you'll see many more leaving for sixth form at boarding schools internationally than before, as transition for example to ESF schools can be difficult. Regarding students that go through the HK system but speak native English at home, most would prefer to apply to overseas universities (not necessarily because they are better, just because of the change of scene, only the very best of USA/UK universities would be better than top universities in HK). Just for the very competitive professional degrees like medicine/law/business there are still quite a lot of native English speakers.
Anyway, that's getting away from hkmummy's post about a 3 yr old...
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2) They do little or almost nothing to develop individuality , confidence or creativity.These are vital skills which really help you get on in life. Simply the students are too scared to think for themselves or speak their minds
... My daughters have been in numerous plays, recitals and dance competitions. I think speaking their minds to teachers is not a good idea in class unless it involves debating. They can speak their minds at home.
4) Not all but an over proportionate ammount of the teachers especially the principals are stuffy , stoic , unfriendly bureaucrats who seem to enjoy keeping
a distance and instilling fear into their students.
... Yes, I like traditional stuffy teachers especially ones that are quite tough. I don't want my kids to be mollycoddled into thinking they are good at something when they are not.
As for getting on with life, it's pretty hard here in Hong Kong if you can't read and write Chinese - even with great exam results. Confidence comes through perfecting something; it shouldn't be confused with speaking out.
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There are local schools and local schools.. a good local school attracts studious students and good teachers. The students are expected to become more than taxi drivers and waiters.
The majority of hong kongers who don't have to pay taxes don't have to because they have been in the other (majority) of local schools..
I have worked in local schools for 10 years.. The former local schools are alright to send your kids to, but hard work.
The others are full of too many variables and not enough quality control.. so if your child sees nine teachers a day.. 3 may have no discipline ability at all, 3 might be screamers and desk bangers, 2 might be very nice and one might be..
One thing that will remain the same for 8 out of the 9 is the method.. endless drilling..great for Chinese characters I agree.. but choral reading entire sentences for short term memory for the nearest exam isn't fun nor does it build any skills in english language building.
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I'm sure the schools in Sai Kung have adapted to fit the demographic of students attending. Schools in Tung Chung would have done the same. Schools in Central..ditto.
I am working full-time in a local school and have been for the last ten years. I can assure Cara, unless your kid is one of the select twenty percent who swats their life away with lots of extra tuition, you would be very lucky to have a literate kid at the end of the primary years. That would be defining literacy as a kid who could read and write at the appropriate stage. It's fairly likely their self-expression would be pretty terrible too as they don't get to express themselves at school.
Display boards are only changed when parents come to visit and only on the floors that parents will be visiting.. there are floors that havent' been changed in all the years I have been at the school..
I love the kids.. and I love teaching them.. but they aren't served well by these schools.. these schools are set up to keep them in the underclass by not giving them any skills or confidence that they can get out in life and succeed.
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Wow that is very very scary 'matches' and also cynical on the part of the Chinese government!
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Matches. What's the point of having confidence if you can't do something - like read and write Chinese? My youngest daughter is literate in Chinese and is no where near the top. She has also been under a lot of stress over the past couple of weeks with the government exams for secondary school places. That was very tough for her but it's over now, thank goodness. She also has confidence but then again her upbringing at home has been western. Maybe the confidence is a cultural thing, we don't follow Confucious.
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Although Paul 72 assessment of the local system is a harsh one, there is a ring of truth about it. If you took that as a generalisation of the local school teaching throughout the whole of Hong Kong, viewed from a western perspective, you wouldn't be too far off the mark.
But if you accept that the might well be the case when you first put your child through the system, it might make it easier to deal with. If you are unfortunate enough not to be able to afford a choice you will simply have to try and balance it with offering your child an alternative lifestyle outside of school.
But even there there are dangers of sending out a mixed message to the child, which might result in them not being able to fully comprehend what is required of them at school.
I have 2 sons in the local sytem(primary), my wife is traditional chinese and I am traditional western. it is not easy and there will be a lot of mixed messages going out to all concerned.
But my advice is too try and take the stress out of what will be a very stressful time.
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Can I ask a question? What are your experiences or feedback on Marymount Primary for a English and Mandarin speaker? I, and my child are Australian but long term HK.
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Be careful about HKIS. If your expat package is below $500k USD per annum your children will experience discrimination not only by their peers but with the administration and teachers as well.
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