Posted by
housed
13 yrs ago
Our DH of 2 years (we just renewed contract) has come to us asking for a loan of HK$15,000. Her reason is her sister-in-law wants to come here to work and having failed to find an employer directly, she wants to go through a Philippines agency which will change 120,000 pesos.
Now my understanding is the agency will advance this sum to her but at high interest, which of course they want to avoid, hence her approaching us.
Honestly I don't see this as a good enough reason for us to lend it to her, and regardless $15K is above our comfort level of what I'd be willing to advance to her in any situation.
However she is a good helper and we do value her. While I have not outright said no, I have told her $15K is too much and we need to think it over. This was two days ago and frankly, she has been quite mopey and also giving us attitude since the conversation.
Frankly I am disappointed with her but not to the point of letting her go so I still want to preserve a pleasant relationship.
My question is: would you lend her money and if so how much? My husband says we need to set some boundaries at the same time as this is not the first time she has come to us for things. Any advice as to how you would word it without upsetting her too much??
Thanks!!!
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Two years, and just renewed her contract! I think it is peculiar she didn't ask before you renewed. I think now she is in her comfort zone--another two years that is why she is asking now.
It is not your responsibility to fund her sister-in law at an agency.
You must have read other threads here about helpers borrowing from employers, for all sorts of reasons, I am wondering if your helper will 'invent sick or dying relatives' as a reason for wanting money if you don't lend it, that is another favoured excuse they often use.
If she has gone quiet and giving you attitude, then that is not a good sign, she will probably sulk every time she wants something from you, and it will get worse.
If you are not comfortable lending her money, then you should say NO firmly, and also tell her at the time you don't agree on principle to lend money for any type of reason, even stories she may invent over sick relatives. I think because she has asked you for things in the past, it will not stop. She may be upset if you have to be firm, but if she really wants her job with you then she needs to start respecting you as an employer, not a lending agency. You could tell her that if she wants a 'soft or rich employer' she better start looking for another job now.
Be aware you may have some major hysterics from her, they are good at 'acting' and producing tears on command, but now is time for a little respect for her employers.
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I'm not quite sure what the difference between a loan and an advance payment, but the last time she borrowed money (going home at Xmas so needed some extra cash), we arranged to deduct a set amount ($1000) from her monthly salary on her return. That time it was $4000 so it was paid off relatively quickly.
Honestly I know nothing of her SIL so I would not feel comfortable recommending her to family and friends.
We are thinking of offering an advance/loan of $5000 but as one poster said on another form I posted on, that may be worse as she will still need $10K and may remain upset and we now stand to lose $5K. On the other hand, this is the max amt we feel comfortable lending and optimistically, she may appreciate the gesture and stop sulking???
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Personally, I will not grant that loan. Sometimes it gets paid without a hitch (through monthly deduction from salary with a signed document), but sometimes complications arise. What if you want to let her go after, say, 2 months because of some reason?
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Hugie
13 yrs ago
Lending money to a Filipino is risky business. My wife agrees ( she is filipina)! But having said that, you are the one paying her salary so you could deduct $1K a month and get it back in just over a year. I probably would be comfortable with that. One thing, I thought the agency fee was 100K? Is she adding on a little for herself? But the risks are there, loads could go wrong. You wouldn't believe the stories my wife comes home with! I could write a book!! Up to you in the end. But one Filipino friend told me as she took HK$500 off me, 'remember, Filipinos never pay their debts!!'
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To be fair, our helper did pay us back last time (well, in the form of monthly deductions) and I don't get the sense that she is irresponsible with money in general.
Anyway, we say down last night and had a serious talk with her about what we were and weren't prepared to do as her employer. Interestingly her sister (also working in HK) was able to get a partial loan from her own employer so she said that now she only needed $8000 to help her sister in law.
In the end, I stuck to our offer of $5000, and emphasized that this amount was the maximum we would ever be able to offer to her under any circumstances. She honestly seemed ok with it and now the atmosphere at home is a lot more pleasant.
Thanks to everyone for your advice, much appreciated!!
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I would not lend her any money but that's just me. Its a rule in our household set up when we employed our helpers. Don't ask as we don't lend and we have been consistent with this.
I do think its problematic encouraging a hand to mouth existence by lending money to helpers for holidays, family illness, whatever reason. I am happy to help my helpers do some financial planning i.e. set up a bank account, pay some of their wages into that so they at least have some savings but other than that I am not about to encourage credit.
Her giving you attitude about not loanig her the money is pretty cheeky - she's asked you for a favour, favours are not orders, you may choose to or not choose to grant the favour, it should not change the working relationship. I suspect she feels that you value her greatly and so has played on this to obtain a zero cost loan for her family member. I agree with another poster who believes this is a time to redress the boundaries of the relationship between you and her, make it clear that you are a not a bank and as much as you value her servives, no helper is indispensible and you don't like her attitude over the last few days. I wouldn't allow this to drag on and on but nip it in the bud ASAP
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Well, I see that you were kind and agreed to give her some of the money, but I fail to see what her sister-in-law's employment situatiion (a total stranger to you, I might add) has to do with you. Just be prepared and be aware that this definitely won't be the last time she asks you for money ... if I were you, unless you want this to happen again (and again!), I'd make the situation clear right now, that although you have lent here money this time, you won't be doing again, for whatever reason, so she must not ask again because you will turn her down. You are her employer, not her personal money lender .... would you, or your husband, ask your boss for a loans ....?
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HI Housed
I hope you have documented the loan to your helper, in writing and with a witness, because as you are deducting it from her wage she could in the future say she hasn't been paid the full wages each month, if she gets annoyed with you for any reason.
You have to be aware of the tricks some of the helpers try to do on employers, and always be one step ahead of them, with everything you give documented.
I am sure your helper is happy again, she has got something out of you she has won!, and hope it all goes well for your sake, and hope she doesn't try any more excuses for money.
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We deposit her salary directly into her HSBC account and in this case, I asked my husband to make two separate deposits do that when she signs off on the ATM slip, we will have a separate one for the loan where she acknowledges receipt and promises to pay back through monthly deductions ($1000 per month for 5 months.)
We did the same last time when she borrowed $4000 to take home with her when she went back for Christmas, and it was all fine. Given that it's a similar amount this time, I'm hoping it will be the same.
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My god! I should set up an agency in the Philippines. Respectable nanny agencies don't charge, registration fees from their helpers. If you would like to help her without lending the money see if you can find a nanny agency that doesn't charge DH any fees, or a family. In most countries it is illegal to charge any DH fees.
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Dear housed, I have a very different perspective on your matter. I think it is in a way irresponsible of you as an employer to lend her the money which she will not even use for herself. SHE, not her SIL, is now indebted to you. If SIL loses job or simply refuses to pay her back, it is your helper who will have to repay the debt to you.
I am writing based on my own experience. My helper did not ask to borrow from me. She lent her own HK$10,000 of savings to her SIL who needed it to pay to the agency. SIL got a job here and refuses to pay her back saying that she needs the whole salary to be sent back to the Phil. Lately she started avoiding my helper. My helper's husband took his sister's side. It's been 14 months now!
Please do not encourage borrowing money for someone else, especially if your helper has kids to take care of. My helper did not ask me for advice, she told me post-factum and was very proud that she had the money and could help. Now she says she would never ever lend money to any of her friends or relatives (unless it is a medical emergency), because she realised that she will never get the lent money back, which means that she worked for me for free for 2,5 months (HK$10,000 is 2,5 months salary).
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Hugie
13 yrs ago
@Nannies....you are soo funny! have you ever been to the Philippines?? try opening an agency there!
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Actually I would be LESS inclined to lend my helper money if she told me it was for some big medical emergency. It sounds heartless but i've heard so many stories of friends being "guilted" into loaning large sums of money for what later turned out to be complete bogus stories. In one extreme case, a friend ended up lending almost $30K to her helper who first said her daughter was sick and needed operation money and then said her daughter DIED from the operation and my friend loaned her money from the funeral and to go home. It turned out later that all of it was a lie and her daughter never had the slightest thing wrong with her and is still in the Phils!!!
The one thing I really appreciate is my helper's honesty. Although her reason for borrowing money may not be a "good" one, at least I believe she was upfront about it and didn't try to manipulate me with some tragic sob story.
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I think the "sulking" and her change of attitude around the house were classic signs of "emotional blackmail" she instilled on you and your family which is the equivalent to giving you the tragic sob story . She wanted your family to see how she was "suffering" It has been my experience that the reasons any DH asks you for money are NEVER the true reasons .....there is always the addition of some tragic sob story to help her cause by playing at your sympathies and/or guilt (if you were to refuse) . You have been troubled by this whole experience but you showed true christian charity in persevering until you found an acceptable way to help your worker . You decided to take a risk on her although it be only a mild risk . Hopefully it will all work out fine but gee.......many warnings have been directed your way over this issue .
If I am approached and asked for money by any FDH on a contract I say to them "DO NOT TELL ME WHY YOU NEED THE MONEY . Go away and come back to me with a plan on how you will repay me or if you wish to repay by salary deduction or would you like me to come with you to the bank and help you to arrange a bank loan " FDH can be granted bank loans against their work contracts and must make monthly repayments directly to the bank in keeping with the banks terms and directives . The loans made to FDHs are government controlled by way of interest amounts charged and terms of repayments .
Personally , my limit on lending money is also $5000(HK) .
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I am fairly certain what my employer would say if I asked for an advance....No!
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Unfortunately things did not turn out to be so straight forward. About three months after she asked for the $15K, she told us she herself was in debt to the tune of $100K plus! So who knows if the orig amount she wanted to borrow was for her relative or for herself?
It got very complicated as she shared some debt with helpers who worked for my friend - as well as one working for a neighbor in our building. We ended up letting her go because she couldn't repay it and we weren't prepared to lend it to her. Long story short, debt collector harassment including hate mail and phone calls galore. What's saddest is she was a good fit for our household and I was as sorry to see her go as she was to lose her job with us.
Not saying its the case for all helpers working in HK but it was certainly a sobering lesson for us.
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And the moral of this stoy is ... don't lend money to helpers! It doesn't matter how
'nice' she is, or 'how well she fits in with your family', it's simply not worth the hassle/stress that's involved. Once you cross that line of employer/employee and become too friendly and start lending money, etc, there's no going back ...
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" giving us attitude since the conversation " this alone does not make her a good helper or person. I won't lend her $1.
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Dear Sir/Madam.
I am helper myself and i kind of agree with most of the comments given on this 'lending' issue- not to lend money to helpers. Its funny to share but in 2009, just after barely 6months working for British family my father needed hospitalization and eventually died. I have asked my employers if i could advance my 3months salary( i started with 4,500 monthly salary) to help my family. They did help me without any papers signed, also paid my round trip tickets. They did agree to have it paid back in installment basis but eventually, because of honesty, good relationship and hardwork, and just being real to them, they did not ask me to pay back. I was rather shock, and thankful ofcourse. I did my best to fulfill my role and we enjoyed good relationship. Unfortunately, they have already gone back to the UK for good but we're still in good contact.
While it's true that lending is a risky business, there are alternative way to help. it is your discretion and you are in full control- after all you are the boss. If the helper show she's hoding a grudge on the employer, then she's not really a good one.
If other helpers hate me for this comment, that's their right. Just saying
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