Posted by
ohalei
18 yrs ago
What I have the most about my helper is that she keep forgetting things, e.g., packing the school bag for my 19 months babies to go to playgroup, but I found she always forget to pack diaper, or put water. There is always something is missing! And she's been doing it for 7 months. I wrote a list for her to check what's to be put in the school bag, but she still can miss things.
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TC
18 yrs ago
What a lot of employers in HK seem to forget is that they can give a list to a FDH and expect her to follow it. On the whole (and this is a generalisation) the people who come to HK from overseas to work as helpers are not the sort of people who can logically use/follow lists. I know that from personal experience. It can often take a lot more effort to sit down and work through the steps one by one, explianing the logic behind it (and it's place in the overall sequence) and continued practice before it gets to a level that the employer would probably reasonably expect from a junior clerk in his/her home country.
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Thanks Tc. Any hints in making a more effective communication with the helper?
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TC
18 yrs ago
It's my guess that ohalei is fishing for items to put in the new book (see other posting).
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I think, questions were in the title/subject of the post. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
"Your DH always forgot to bring something?" Unless your DH is on her mobile phone while packing things...she'll then tend to forget something. Maybe your DH has many,many things to mind that's why she forgot some things sometimes. Looking at your list while working or packing and 19 month baby around her cause hassles and time consuming. Not only DH tend to forget something. If there's something you hate about your DH, fire her and hire a PERFECT one. Good luck!
Cheers!!!
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HiWitty Han, thanks for answering question from brainwest. You are correct.
I do not expect a perfect helper, in fact I do some housework myself whenever my babies are sleeping coz I don't treat a helper like slave. That's why sometimes I feel tired from reminding the helper all the time for the basic things that she does every day. One more example is like throughing the garbage when it's full, I have to remind her. Just want to find a good solution for things like this.
You are right about mobile phone, she is on her hand free all the time. None stop!
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Sorry, throwing garbage, not throughing the garbage.
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TC, you are right. While going through all the experiences with helper issue. I was hunting for a book that would give me hints re how to make effective communication with helper, and how to make things simple and easy for them to remember. Communication is not just from one side, I first question myself if I have been giving good instruction to the helper when the helper always say "I forgot". Other problems like one of my helpers used my handbag while I was in the hospital. When I came home and asked her if she saw my handbag, the answer was "mum, I used it, but forgot to bring it back". Many small unexpected things like this happens with my helpers. Therefore, I wanted to find a book all about unexpected things that we can make it clear to the helpers, so that we could live together with respect to each other. Hence, keep the harmony of a home.
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TC, and yes, I am planning to write a book. I read "the helper's helper", which is a very good book. Therefore, if I am going to write a book re DH, then I expect myself to write something that is not covered in "The helper's helper".
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I'm currently having a helper who is very good in looking after my daughter who is 2 years old but not very good in cleaning and tidying my home. She is very, very forgetful even though I had sat down with her and wrote a list of things for her to do. Things like forgot to pack a nappie, water, some snacks etc is very common to her. I've just given up on reminding her,because she will forget the same thing even if I tell her 5 times. So, what I do was, I told her that I will deduct HKD20.00 from her wages every time she forgot to do something. She is very stubborn, as sometimes when you told her to do things your way she will not do it and does what she prefers, and I will constantly, without fail have to point out how I want things to be done. She was constantly on the phone,so one day I took her phone away and told her that I don't like her to constantly yapping on the phone while working as she was not focused. Even my daughter copied her by pretending to talk on her toy mobile phone while playing with her friends. It worked and the deduction of wages worked. Sometimes you have to be cruel in order to be kind, because most helpers (through my experience) lost a big chunk of their monthly wages paying their phone bill.In a way, you can help them to save some money.
AT
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Atheanesa,
Isn't it illegal to be deducting money from your DH's salary like that everytime she forgets something. I mean, it's only human nature to forget. Your last sentence 'In a way, you can help them to save some money'; would that imply that you're actually withholding the deducted amount of salary to be paid to her later? Otherwise, I only see a saving being made on your part and not on her part.
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Atheanesa, the forgeting things is very typical for helpers. The things that I am worry is that they tend to forget things so easily, I doubt if they would forget about the babies despite they seem to be good to the babies. If the helper is just lazy, but good with babies and logical, then I think it's bearable. But if the helper is slow, forgetful, and lazy, then no matter how much they love the kids, i would worry.
You solution sound effective. I am not going to challenge whether it's legal or not, it just seem to prove the fact is that they can actually REMMEBER.
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pocoyo, let alone the legal issue.
It's only human nature to forget, and I also told myself that. However, the different is that the helpers tend to forget things in a very high frequency. Almost everything you tell them repeatly they can forget.
Another experience that i have with one of my helpers was that I told her many many times "do not throw away my stuff without asking"! One day, I finished baking a cake and let it cool down in the kitchen .......! Well, you know what happen? My cake disapear when I returned to the kitchen to check it, then I asked the helper "where is my cake". The helper's answer was "I thought it's not eatable, so I threw it away"!! I told her over 10 times, "do not throw away my stuff without asking". Then she told me that she forgot to ask me!!!
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TC
18 yrs ago
It seems to me that if helpers are such a trouble they shouldn't be employed. And what I mean by that is what I've read here is nothing new - yet people come to HK and continue to join the long list of employers who complain about their helpers. If the odds of getting a good/reliable/sensible helper are so slim then don't get one. The helpers in general won't change. The employers have a choice.
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Hi Pocoyo and Ohalei,
FYI, she had forgotten to lock the front door last nite..she was the last one to go to bed. I always sleeps with my child if my husband is not at home. As our home is street level, and our window and garden door is also on street level, I am quite paranoid about safety and security as there was cases of break ins in other blocks last two years. In any case, please check FDH contract there is a clause of salary deduction of not more than HKD300 per month if FDH caused damage to employers properties etc..I actually deduct her wages only to return it to her when she finished her contract..It's just that I don't tell her that I will return it to her..she has spoiled and damage our expansive clothes, lose our clothes etc..I have since opted to wash my own clothes.
Thanks.
AT
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Oh! I forgot to mention..we are paying her higher than legal pay, HKD3,700 with allowance between HKD300-500 per day if we leave her with our child if we go on short holiday, so our expectations would probably be quite high.
Thanks.
AT
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Atheanesa
I your helpers contract atates 3,700 you cannot legaly stop money for such things. Would you appreciate it if your helper demanded extra cash for doing tasks you did not have on her list of things to do? It is neither legal or ethical to do such things. If your helper is not performing then you need to talk with her and explain that you will need to terminate her if things do not improve.
I would also be very concerned at leaving my child alone while i went away with such a forgetful helper.
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TC, you are right! I actually did fire the helper who threw away my cake ^_^, but that is not the reason.
I completely understand that all the helper has certain kind of problem, some bearable some unbearable. I just wonder how we can improve the situation. There are people who are very happy with their helpers, I just wonder what we can do to make things better.
In fact, I was thinking about asking another question "what you hate the most about your employer?", so that we could get the point of view from both sides.
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TC, do you have a helper? How's your helper? Did you ever have any problem with your helper? If yes, how did you solve the problem in a good way?
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pocoya, do you have a helper? and how many kids you have? I am sure none of us are perfect, so I am not talking about expecting a helper to be perfect. But how do you organize and manage and mantain the good relationship with your helper?
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AT, if I were you, i would not leave my kids with the helper.
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Being forgetful of a DH may caused of many factors, for example if DH is pressured by the employer(employer always shout and scold DH even commit minimal mistakes and DH became nervous) and pressured by time (DH have to cook,wash dishes,wash clothes,clean,got to go playgroups,mind the 19mos old baby,etc.) she will certainly forget things. This problem may be solve by the employer by giving a DH a good work atmosphere.
Q: "what you hate the most about your employer?"
A: "Some employers pretend to be perfect but they're not." for example, Some employers got angry and complaining that their DH is not clean in washing dishes, the kitchen hood still greasy after cleaning, DH is not clean! but every morning Employer didn't take a bath and change undies before going to work, what a shame!
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Fiona, do you think you would tell your helper to clean dishes "clean" if you found out at once that you want to use a plate after the helper washed it, then you found out that there is a noodle hanging on the plate? And at the same time, you want to pour water in a 'clean' glass, but you found out there is a layer of coffee still wet left at the bottome of the glass? Would you talk to your helper for cases like this? Or you would pretend to be a perfect employer and drink water with glass fill with soap? Or you start to have phobia about using everything you have in the kitchen?
Hygene is very personal habit of their employer, and I agree with green that it is a different matter. With food, it's definitely disgusting to see noodles hanging on a "cleaned" plate. Or lots of bubbles in the water after filling the water in a "cleaned" glass?
Pressure, for a helper who only being expected to spend 2 hours a day with the baby, or sometimes 0 hour with baby, I do not think that there is so much of pressure.
Employers are facing a lots of pressure from work and pressure from making sure that you will pay their helper on time. Have you ever heard of an employer forget to pay their helpers all the time becasue they were having too much pressure?
And does the helper ever forget about to collect their salary from their helper?
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sorry, I mean, does the helpers ever forget about collecting their salary from their employer, if it was paid one day late?
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hey fiona, one more question.
Are you an employer or a helper? Do be offened by this question. This forum is open for both helper and employer.
If you are an employer, how do you keep a happy and fair relationship with your helper? Have you ever come across to any problem with your helper? If yes, how did you solve the problem in a fair and effective way? I honestly would like to know.
If you are a helper, I would love to know in a helpers' point of view. What could motivate a helper to be motivated and happy with the employer.
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Sorry, I mean don't be offened.
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TC
18 yrs ago
...or offended, even.
And no, we do not have a helper here in HK. When we arrived just over 5 years ago we determined we should do all we could to get by without one given the hassles and the privacy issues associated with live-in helpers. Five years, and one baby, later we are still hanging in there. Sure there have been times when we felt it would have been nice to have someone around to do some of the housekeeping chores, or to take the baby off our hands for a while, but overall no regrets. And soon to leave HK so I think we achieved our goal. (BTW, we've had helpers in other places like Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia & Fiji.)
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Ohalei,
In answer to your question, no, I don't have a helper, not even part-time. I'm a stay-at-home mum to two boys aged 31 months and 8 months old. My friends often wonder how I cope and keep saying I should at least get a part-time maid to help with the housework but I just don't think I'll be happy with someone else doing my housework. I'm sure to find faults and will probably be posting threads on this website complaining about my maid. :)
Atheanesa, glad to hear that you will actually be returning the salary held back to your maid at the end of her contract. I am surprised though that you sometimes leave your child with your maid when you're off on a short holiday. My husband can't imagine the thought of going on holiday without the kids.
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What I dislike most about our helper, is she talks alot and is nosy. Always looking in bags and asking too many questions and just nosy in general. Otherwise, must say she is pretty good. Excellent cook, and good cleaning. Oh ya, I also don't like that she kisses our daughter on the lips.
Would love to hear responese from Helpers about their employers
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You cannot cannot cannot ever expect them to be consistent unless you are paying for sometime truly educated and they cost far more.
I gave up on full time helpers. I cannot take the stress or the attitude or sneakiness or forgetfulness. It just makes me too upset.
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my helper got the same problem- the " I forgot" dialogue. And me ending up saying,put your heart in what you are doing so you won't say the same alibi now and then. I do not allow myself to get upset over this matter. You know why? It won't help at all. Good help is soooo hard to find but we are lucky in a way that we have these
people to help us with the maddening household chores. I cannot imagine myself without one.
My maid do not have a cell phone and does know her limit. She is allowed to watch tv when everything is done or go out and have some fresh air or take a nap in the afternoon -PROVIDED that everything is immaculate. Jassy67, I agree with you- no kiss on lips. Tell your maid directly. To Ohalei- what could motivate a helper to be good as in super good? There is no such perfect maid nor a perfect employer. But to motivate someone to work hard is good money and how you treat people working for you. It should go hand in hand.
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All of this kind of worries me... I have a baby due in 3 months and unfortunately cannot afford to be a stay at home Mum (though there is nothing I would like more). I have no intentions of getting a live in maid (I couldn't stand someone else in my house full time!), so will have to opt for a live out, week days. To be honest I am dreading hiring someone, have heard so many horror/ laziness stories. I have someone who comes in once a week to clean and even she doesn't do the little that is expected. I prev. worked as a nanny, with helpers also in the homes who were always on the phone, doing stuff last minute before the employers returned. I'm currently a KG teacher and always hear the parents complain about and often changing DHs for various reasons incl those above and worse. Guess I just want advice on how to choose DH? I take it you were all happy to begin with then DH just got too relaxed or whatever... Did you 'lay down the law' when they were employed only to have them do whatever they want? I'll need to be really strict from the start, right? also what do you pay a live out? I'm hoping to cut down to 4 days at work to limit amount of time my child spends with DH. Is 3'500 ok for 4 days a week maybe 8am-6pm? Thanks for any advice.
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Airlina, if money can solve the problem, then there is no problme. Treating the helper, please tell me if the way treating a helper is good or not - I bought her new clothes when she started working with us because I saw all her clothes were so old and look like they are going to fall apart. I bought her down goose jacket before winter came and branded sports shoes when I saw her shoes were so uncomfortable and old. I told her, in my home you eat what I eat. Take whatever you like to eat in the kitchen. However, what turned out few months later was that "mom, can you buy me xxx shampoo?" "Mom, can you buy me xxx body gel?" "Mom, can you buy me the bread for breakfast from xxx club house". when I told her she could eat everything in the kitchen, she was so suprised adn happy. Hoever, she turned out to be eating six times a day, and could not finish cleaning the floor in the whole morning because she go to kitchen have coffee and cake after cleaning the living room. Then back clean my room, again after that went to kitchen to drink tea (only available in certain country) and make toast. 10:30am, she started to make her lunch. At the beginning, I thought it's better that I take the kids out for morning so the helper could do the work. However, when I return home three hours later, she still not finished cleaning the floor. I know how long it took to clean the floor. I had a part-time helper before who finished cleaning the floor, dusting and luandry in 4-5 hours. I keep on hearing responses about treating your helper good, pay them good, with respect.......... just sounded as what I used to think. However, it did not work. And she wanted more, and she acted as I treated her good becasue I needed her so badly. She was so skinny when she came to work for me. Then she bacame double of her initail size after four months working for me. The she complained that she had to eat alot because there were so much work to do and she had to eat alot in order to have energy.......
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tc, thanks for correcting me.
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murf
please do not be worried. there are many families in hong kong who have extremely efficient, intelligent, discreet and proactive helpers.
as for being really strict from the start ... as we had a very clear job outline for our helper (we worked with evelyn from the asia xpat site), that allowed the atmosphere to be quite pleasant. both parties had agreed to the expectations. it has been four years and although there have been glitches, as in any working relationship, we feel blessed to have our helper in our family.
congratulations on your upcoming arrival, and please dont worry too much, there are many extremely competent, trustworthy helpers in hong kong.
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abitnaive,
Thank you, its really great to hear that.
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Woody, you are bang on. This is what I do. I've just put in place a positive reinforcement plan based on a target of 5% monthly salary, and annualised points tied to an annual bonus, target one months salary. No points, no bonus. However, if you earn above the targeted points there is potential to earn more that the targeted bonus. If anyone wants a copy, feel free to pm me.
I'm not seeing much "forgetting" these days...
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ohalei, wow! you sound so kind with all your stories. Did you reprimand your helper when she used your bag? That is unacceptable. I dunno if I can trust somebody using my personal things.
And the never ending eating? Wow, that terrible.
I can make someone be comfortable but not abusive
you know. Do not cross the line. I chit chat at times with my maid but there is always a limit.
I make sure of that.
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I'm sorry to put a spanner in the works, but I feel very blessed to have my helper. Yes, she is not perfect, but then neither am I. I need to remind myself of just how privileged I am to have been born in to a world where we can afford the luxury of having someone living in my house, caring for my children, cleaning and cooking too. WoW!It's all about perspective. Maybe if the DH is no good then you should just get rid of her and do it all yourself just the way you like it.
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Arlina,
She took my handbag without asking me. I was in the hospital when she took it. Yes, after a 7 months of trying to explain to her about privacy and respect for other people and ..... etc. I let her go! Enough!
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sophanwillmum,
Well, no one is expecting other people to be perfect, and you are not the only one. Most of the employers here are trying their best to make an effort to handle the helper issue better, i.e., to be fair to the helper and yet trying to find a solution to have good relationship with their helper.
Yes, it sounds ideal that your helper actually care for your kids and cook for you. Not all helper really care for the kids or can cook. You are very lucky. And keep your kindness to your helper, a helper like this desrves respect.
Your last line sound very naive, the reason that we have dicussions here is to share our experience and try to see if other people have better solution to deal with some problem with helper issue. And yes, if the helper is so bad, I do prefer not to have one. But again, we are grown up people, we do not throw things away because it's no good. We try to improve the situation before we actually consider firing the helper or our employees.
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ACFHK
18 yrs ago
You all need to get a hobby and a life.
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hahaha! ACFHK, this is our hobby and life ^_^! So what made you to check out this forum, while you seem to have a hobby and a life!
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Devon
18 yrs ago
ohalei, wonder what your helper hates most about you? I can't actually believe this was allowed, but there you go.
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Devon
Well said.
The helper is not full of 'childcare' hormones as Mummy's are.
We have nappies/bottles/snacks/covering all eventualities, on our brains. Its biological.
Biological mothers forget thngs too, but feel more responsible for packing the correct thing in our childs schoolbag/nursery bag (if you use a nursery) as it is a bad reflection of the MOTHER not the helper, if we omit essential items.
I, myself, wouldn't delegate packing my child's schoolbag, for instance, to a helper.
Its all too easy to be always blaming someone else. Why not consider that (as a minimum) as part of Mummy's nurturing role?
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Devon,
I do actually wnat to know what the helpers hate the most about me. So that we can make a better improvement.
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Meems
18 yrs ago
Have you found pubic hairs in your soup before? It is that easy for pubic hairs to fall onto the bowls?
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