Posted by
squigward
19 yrs ago
Just wonder what most of you do about allowing helpers to have breaks during the day. Our helper has been with us for over a year. During that time I have been far too soft and she has taken advantage big time. Obviously my fault totally. However, I am going to sit down with her and go through things I would like to do differently. Subtle and direct hints have not worked. My husband wants me to put together a timetable of what I would like her to do each day and to list rough timings and length of time for breaks. Currently she disappears to her rooms at exactly the times I need her most each day, sometimes for over 2 hours at a time. If I am not around and my husband is here with our children, she sometimes retreats to her rooms for most of the day. We really are very lenient and very flexible and I don't want to be too heavy handed. She gets up at 7am by choice and finishes before 7 each night - still a long day I know. I usually let her off by Saturday afternoon for the rest of the weekend, allow her all statutory and public holidays, friends over to stay. I am just very concerned about coming down too hard on her, although I am not happy that she has taken advantage of me. Constructive advice would be very welcome please.
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I think you do need to come down hard on her - otherwise she will continue in this way.
A timetable is a good idea - with what you expect to be done and when/ what days, and include the break times and alotted times.
Something I did was for them to keep a journal of what they did each day - ie Monday 15 - changed sheets, dusted living room, cleaned bathrooms, etc etc so that i could see what what being done each day as well.
You could incorporate this and make your timetable a check list that is checked off as things are done, however, you do need to make it clear that if they have finished all the jobs whether there are extra jobs to be done, or if it is down time from then on - such as 'from 3-5pm' helper needs to be on call and in kitchen etc.
She will probably let the tears flow when you approach her - don't let it sway you - she is taking advantage of you. Get the book - Helpers helper from parkn shop - bright pink cover.
Also let her know she will be terminated if she continues and maybe if she improves you could offer an incentive. They have a mentality of children they will continue to do what they have always done if they can get away with it.
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I do not employ any maids because I find all the ones I have have tried to take advantage of me, so putting me on the 'list' wouldn't bother me at all..and I have found they are like children in many respects, I have many friends who are DH - not employed by me but through church and even then I find they can not make adult decisions and many do not have a work ethic that I can understand.
I do know they are adults who have problems with work ethics - and in many cases have a child mentality with regard to entitlement issues. I make no apology for what I have said,in many cases, the DH I have known want all the rights without the responsibility - this is what I mean by child mentality. I believe my comment was validated by the rest of the sentence "they will continue doing what they have always done if they can get away with it" this is a child's mentality.
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tly
19 yrs ago
you guys are being too hard on dimac. FOTH, I know you do not have a fulltime DH and Billy Whizz, I'm guessing you don't either, so you guys don't have the right to be so judgemental. In some ways they do have the mentality of children, but they are not childish or immature. I agree that when you talk to them about something negative, you can't come down hard on them. Filipinos take things very personally, and if you want to continue a good working relationship with them, you almost have to speak to them as if you were a parent to a child. I grew up in the Philippines, and this point I am certain.
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Just to make sure you undertsand me - I did not say they should be treated as a child. I have always treated my friends and helpers as an adult - but i expect an adult mentality in return - which isn't usually the case.
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thanks for backing me up tly.
Most of the problems that are posted on this forum would not exist if the mentality was not as of a child - such as going to have an afternoon nap when looking after children, leaving a 5 month old sleeping on a bed unsupervised, having sex on the couch whilst looking after children, taking out huge credit without the means of repayment, bursting into tears whenever being rightly told off, - these instances are not the mentality of a mature adult.
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ShazP
19 yrs ago
squiqward,
Seems like you have not guided your DH from the very beginning by laying down the rules and telling her how & when you want your jobs done. Your DH has tried her luck with you'll & is succeeding very well so far.
You have to sit her down ASAP & talk to her straight. Tell her you expected her to do the ' right thing' as a DH, but you see she has not.
With my DH, I have put a list up for her. She has different chores every day in addition to her normal day to day housework...eg: cleaning A/C on Mondays, polishing furniture on Tuesdays, etc. It is all written down very clearly & it is put up on the fridge door so she & I can always refer to it. I have told her clearly to be honest with me always & let me know if she has been unable to complete her chores for that particular day. This has worked well for us.
If a DH is not clear about what you want, then she can always say that 'she was not aware she had to do it'....a list wont give her any reason for an excuse.
As for her timing & style of rest...that is funny. If you choose to give her a nap/ rest break...you have to set an exact time of day for her & tell her exactly how much time she can rest for. Also tell her, under some circumstances the timings could change or be cancelled.
Everything you tell your DH, you have to be VERY PRECISE & DETAILED about it. The main thing is, when you talk to her...be straight & firm. Dont worry about hurting her feelings, she will get a good wake up only from how you deal with her. At the end of your conversation, ask her if she agrees to your terms. If she says no, give her a months notice then & there. If she agrees to your terms, then you have to warn her of the consequences if she ignores or starts slacking in your expectations. Whatever your consequences, see that you follow them through. Dont give her another chance once you have spoken with her.
All the best!
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I do need to add one instance that happened to me that has tainted my 'virgin' thoughts..I left my 14 year old in HK with the DH while we were out of the country - expecting the DH to be in the house when the 14 year old was here...well the 14 year had a few sleep overs at friends (with parental permission) but at the times when the 14 was here - the DH decided she didn't need to be here - and not only that had not done any shopping nor prepared any food for her - her excuse - it was my Sunday holiday?? (even though she had had almost 2 weeks without anyone in the house - having nothing to do - she still expected to have Sunday 'off' even though there was a responsibility in the home for her.) The other days she just decided she didn't need to be here. She was given 1 months notice.
Another instance - arranged to have the DH come back on a Saturday early to mind the 8 and 6 year active boys (4pm) I couldn't contact her when she wasn't there on time, left another older child from the neighbourhood in charge - the DH turned up 4 hours later...she had forgotten....
Mature adult mentality - I don't think so.
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Going back to the original question - have the talk with her, and have a box of tissues ready on the table. The first time I had a 'talk' with my helper, the tears sidetracked me and I ended up just giving her more time off. The second time same again, and the conclusion was that she would start work an hour later each day. The third time we decided she would leave.
So be careful - I wouldn't mind betting that the reason she says she needs these long breaks is that the work is too hard, she has a health problem, something like that. This is not me being mean, but just giving an honest opinion.
Good luck.
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Life
19 yrs ago
In my most humble opinion, she might retreat to her room when your hubby is around because:
1. She feels intimidated by him
2. Does not want you to think that you are after him and so keeps her distance
3. Only feels comfortable around him when you are present
4. Might think that he wants to spend time with the kids and does not want to interfere.
So until you have your talk with her, I think retreating to her room at that time of the day is understandable.
In defense of Dimac, I find nothing he has said to be unfair. You have to remember that most of us are brought up in a different culture which requires a totally different work ethic than what is commonly observed from adults in some Asian countries. Based on those cultural differences one can fairly use the term, “child like”.
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I specifically asked for constructive advice to avoid most of what has taken place above. Thank you for the couple of sensible replies. I would be really grateful for any advice on the specific question I asked originally, which is what most people do about allowing their helpers breaks. I would just like to get a feel for how other people go about setting breaks into their daily routine for their helper and how long and how often each day. Once again, constructive advice would be welcome. Thanks
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cd
19 yrs ago
my helper appears at 7 to give my disabled child breakfast and get him dressed while I see to the others. Once he goes at 8.30 she has a breakfast break. She has lunch between 1 and 2. Does a bit of ironing in the afternoon and pretty much finishes at 4 until about 7 when she washes up after dinner. Somedays now she has to cook very simple things while I take the kids to football. She goes to church every thursday evening, of course all day sunday, and some times goes round her friends or has dinner with other helpers nearby.
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joy2
19 yrs ago
Dear Squiqward,
My helper start working at 7am,usually have lunch at noon ,than until 3pm (when my child come back from school) she is free to take a rest as much as she has finish her house chores.And trust me is better like that so she will hurry to do the cleaning than seeing her cleaning for 1hour a 2x2meters toilet.
After dinner around 8pm she finish her service.
On her day off I kindly ask her to be home by 8pm so I can lock the door before I go to sleep.
If I need to go out in the evening(saturdays) I usually let her take a rest from noon to 6pm so in case my child wake up at night she is not going to be too tired.
Hope is helpful
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joy2
19 yrs ago
Sorry I forgot:
no friends allowed to come over either if I'm home or not.
No mobile phone use when she is alone with the kid ,I provide her an other phone with a number that only the family knows so she won't be distracted when supervising the baby.For the rest of the day she can recive her calls on her mobile,not at my house number.
And If she is not feeling well or very tired, even if she doesn't say it, you can tell...I always tell her to take a rest for the day ,until she REALLY feel better ,because then I will expect her to perform her duties as usual.
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joy2
19 yrs ago
Dear Foth,
when I'm not working and I can enjoy my child my mobile is OFF and only my family who has my house n can contact me .
Anyways if you are trying to be polemical about my "house rules"lets clear that for my helper is not a big deal to keep her mobile off for 3hours when she can use it for the rest of the day,probabily I'm just lucky to deal with a mature and responsable person that knows what is the meaning of the reasponsability of looking after a child that its not hers!!
By the way when you are in your office did you receive personal phone calls on your mobile during working hours?
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I think the problem is, especially for the filipinos, they like using their phone so much that if you dont stop them they can talk for 8 hrs. per day. So whether people think this is mean or not, I tell my helper to switch her phone off during working hours. This of course was discussed in the first interview so that she had the choice to work for me or not. Resonable use of phones..... too difficult to define so to avoid stress on both parties, a definite no is always the best.
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Life
19 yrs ago
starts at 6:30, and unless I have specifically something for her to do, after her chores, she is on break until dinner time. Watch TV, play cards, sleep, talk on her mobile, I could careless, as long as she is in the house.
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Dimac4,
"Mentality of children" ? Most of these women have given up the best years of their youth, left their families and friends to come to work here. They can only go out 1 day a week (if they are lucky), have to do boring and menial work, and have virtually no hope of finding a descent boyfriend/husband. They send most of their salary home to support their families. Is this a sacrifice you would have made when you were 20 ? I certainly wouldn't have. What is childlike are spoiled adults whining about not being able to get the "right person" to do their domestic duties and raise their children for them, while most of the rest of the world struggles with poverty, war, famine, disease, dangerous work ...
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Yep - you are right. but they still have a strange mentality about many things - childlike in many cases.
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jbebeb,
It sounds very nice but unfortunately many of them do not seem to receive that high DH salary mandated by law, nor their mandatory holidays so that they can enjoy the excitment of Hong Kong and look for that suitable western husband. It's also unfortunate that they are not given the chance to get permanent residence after they have been here supporting Hong Kong's economy for 7 years, thus effectively making their work here a dead end. As for the supportive legal system, most of the women I know who have tried legal recourse for getting lost back wages, sexual harrasment by bosses, or physical abuse have not had much luck. I think the problem is with the local culture. And yes they are here because of a lack of opportunity in their own countries but that doesn't justify mistreating them.
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jbebeb,
I guess you live in the mid-levels or Stanley ? Yes many DH with wealthy employers do quite well for themselves but I don't think this is the normal situation. I think the underpayment problem is simply a matter of the local employers paying what they can get away with paying. The argument I hear from people I know who underpay is "why pay $3200 if I can pay $2000". The fact that is illegal seems to have no influence whatsoever on their decision which is why I question how effective the laws protecting DHs are. I agree that the whole situation should be reviewed but it should be kept in mind that HK is also more expensive than malaysia. The situation with the agencies is also a significant problem and one that the ICAC should be looking into. As for mainlanders as DHs, is there any official explanantion as to why that is not allowed ? I've heard lots of speculation: they will all marry local men skewing the gender balance, they are not as good with kids, they will run away ..., but not sure about the Govts argument
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