Posted by
geiboyi
19 yrs ago
Just thought I would share my experience with this...
My helper returned home in September when her contract ended. Since then we have had numerous letters regarding her debts - one kind of letter seemed professional (an unpaid phone bill had been handed to a debt collection agency) but the other kind (I didn't open the first couple of letters - not addressed to me, but they kept coming so I did) asked her to call a given number or she would get an IMMEDIATE visit from a Mr Kim. I called, and explained, and so far there have been no more letters. Looking back, I should have promised to send my helper her bonus within a month or so of her return, rather than paying everything to her before she left, then I could have paid off the debts and not been caused this stress. I don't feel happy that she has used my address when securing loans that she (possibly) had no intention of repaying. (And yes, I paid her well over her time with me, and she left with a considerable amount of money.)
For all those who are about to sign new contracts, or interview helpers, it might be worth putting in a condition that your home address is not to be given when borrowing money. I'm sure I'm not the only one, and I don't like receiving threatening letters.
(I'm not having an 'all helpers are bad' rant - my new helper is a joy...)
Please support our advertisers:
july8
19 yrs ago
Dear Geiboyi,
This happend to me too,in my case this people from where she get money there were sending letters like:"we know where you are we came and get you..."Mafia style.
And imagine with a kid home how not safe I was feeling..
They were also calling at my house n....so once I took the phone and explained them that if they were not going to stop disturbing I would have fired immediatly the helper making clear the fact that if this was happening she won't be able to pay and she was going to go back to the philippines where they can not find her.
Suddenly they stop disturbing!
Anyways after this As a way of living ,before I hire any helper I explain them that I will keep in the safety box their passport ,if they want to use it they just have to ask for it and I will give it back but than they have to explain me for which use...
Last thing I want is someone at my door with a knife or worse!!
Please support our advertisers:
cbdc
19 yrs ago
hi geiboyi
we also had the same experience, including telephone calls during middle of the night and right during dinner hour when i was busiest! it was a hassle and as july8 pointed out, when my husband was away, it was kind of creepy when they called. i finally mailed them a letter i had translated that confirmed my helper had left the country and i did not have her forwarding address. and the calls stopped quickly afterwards.
with our next helper, we explained that borrowing from lenders was unaccaptable.
glad the nuisancing seems to have stopped.
Please support our advertisers:
Just curious, how much money are your helpers borrowing? Who actually lends to helpers besides other helpers?
Please support our advertisers:
Loan Companies lend to helpers - or the helpers go guarantor for people (being an obliging friend) who take the $24,000 and leave - leaving the debt to be covered by the guarantor. These companies charge 52% interest per annum (due to low recovery rate)- so once they are in debt - they will find it very difficult to get out of.
When I had a helper I made it very clear that she would be terminated if she borrowed money from anyone or any company except from us, if she loaned any money to anyone or if she went guarantor for anyone - this made her decision making alot easier!
Please support our advertisers:
Happened to me once to my previous helper,she was good and excellent in her role in my house, my kids love her so much. I was angry at that time but gave her a consideration.I helped her out by paying the whole amount and was deducted to her salary.Since that time,I strictly informed her not to gave my home address to anybody or our home tel no. or else she will be out of my door immediately.I gave the same word to my second helper and untill now got no problem anymore.I dont hold thier passport as I heard that it is against the law to do that.
Please support our advertisers:
Who in their right mind would guarantee a helper's HK$24,000 credit (that's 6-7 months salary, and that's before the interest kicks in!)? Heck, the last offer I got from HSBC in the mail was for a HK$10,000 loan :)
Agree that holding the passport is a bit over the top, if not illegal. The only other instance I know of where "employers" hold passports is in the case of women who are forced to enter the sex industry. Not a good practice to be following in my opinion.
Please support our advertisers:
Keeping someone else's passport is definitely illegal. Even if you are just 'keeping it safe' and she has to ask you for it.
Please support our advertisers:
The helpers guarantee each other - as a favour - not understanding what being a guarantor actually means and many end up in hot water as the street wise ones figure it out as an easy way of making money without working. Borrow the money - have a 'friend' go guarantor, pay a few of the repayments back then skip the country - taking the money with them, but leaving the debt to be paid by their 'friend'. I don't think the loan companies are very diligent in explaining the terms of the contract to the guarantors - they may do it but in a language that is not the native langaue of the DH.
Those who take out the loans are working on the goodwill of the people of their nation - using the unconditional sharing mentality to their advantage. In many cases they ask people who they hardly know ie work in the same building.
I too can't believe they would do this - but they have no clue about money and contracts and deceit.
The only people I would go guarantor for would be my parents and my children - no siblings, or friends, especially not people I hardly know. But then that is my self preserving self coming through!
Some friends of ours had a helper whose husband had a number of debts. He was visiting his wife at my friends house, some heavies turned up demanding payment with a big argument - the helpers husband ended up being shot dead on the doorstep. I think my friends had been in HK for about 2 months!
Please support our advertisers:
About six months after we hired our current helper, it became apparent that she had debt problems. I became aware of her financial problems just before we were scheduled to go on a 2 month vacation. Needless to say, we paid out her debt (I didn't want unsavoury characters hanging around our apartment when we were away on holidays (or at any other time for that matter). Over a period of time, she paid us back. However, I did warn her that I did not want a repeat of this episode.
Apparently, when helpers take out loans or act as guarantors, they have to provide the dodgy finance companies with a copy of their passport and a copy of their employment contract. The employment contract has the address and other contact details of the employer. So if the helper fails to meet repayments on time, the first port of call is the employers phone number or address.
When I asked my helper a few questions about the defaulting loan, she couldn't answer any of my questions. I was shocked she had no documentation whatsoever. She said she had borrowed money for her sister. That being the case, I asked her whether she had guaranteed a loan taken out by her sister, or whether she had borrowed the money herself - she did not even know the answer to this basic question. The only 'documentation' she had was a hand-written note on a scrap of paper which noted the amount in arrears. I was shocked how little my helper knows about loans/guarantees etc, particularly as she is 49 years old.
We gave her a chance, and she has not betrayed our trust to date (ie no further loan problems).
Please support our advertisers:
That's great. I wish I could pay my helper's debts off, but I don't have the money myself. Also she's not that great of a helper, skimping on her time and her duties and blatantly lying to me about trivial and annoying stuff.
Please support our advertisers:
You can go into the loan company and find out exactly what the problem is - once they know that someone is working it through they tend to settle down - as long as she continues to pay. It is when they feel they are being ignored (as then the problem goes away right??) that they start getting antsy. You can organise to have the loan refinanced so the repayments are manageable (but of course the interest goes up)
Please support our advertisers:
I often wonder about the mentality of some of those firms that hound workers out of jobs and out of the country. Do they really think that threats will help?
Please support our advertisers:
I've heard tons of stories like these. It is painfully annoying, isn't it? Just be careful...there are a lot of finance companies that offer loans to domestic helpers. i have quite a few friends who work in such places.
guarantors are asked if they know the person applying for the loan. well, it really varies...it depends on the company. basically what happens is, the applicant would need at least 1 reference and maybe a couple of guarantors. they would then get a phone call from the said company to confirm their aquaintance with the applicant...they would also need to provide their hkid number, address, phone number, etc. if the applicant fails to settle his/her debts, the guarantors would then be bombarded by collectors. If you have a helper, well, you cant really advise against making loans, especially when theres a family emergency...but then mm, i would say something about being a guarantor. if your helper is a guarantor or becomes one, youll be getting the annoying phone calls if he/ she lives with you and her friend doesnt pay.
Please support our advertisers:
I used to work in a finance company and this finance company will accept all kinds of proof of address under employer's name. I advise you all that all the proof that under employer's name to be keep it tight. All the financing Company for the DH will accept any kind of proof of address under employer's name. The financing Company will accept even torn envelope and stick it like jigzaw puzzle still accepted that as proof of address.DH cant apply loan without the proof of addres under employer's name. Some financing company offering $35K without guarrantor and doesnt need reference. Financing company collection Dept. just only work during working hour, Once you have receive annoying phonecalls at night or early morning means your maid's file already handle by the collection agency. But if you are really nice to you helper you can bargain with this company that you will settle your maid's debt without interest.
Please support our advertisers:
Hello everyone
It happened to me this week. China Resources Peoples Telephone Ltd took an action against our DH for outstanding charges and the case now being handled by collection agency.
To my horror, our DH says "this is totally OK situation" as if nothing happned. This is NOT OK situation at all. I strongly believe such act is shamuful.
OK, my question for everyone is that this is the proper reason for terminating her? She is under 2yr contract and has been working for only 9 months.
Moreover it has come to my attention that she is constantly asking to borrown money from neighbouring Philippina and Indonesian helpers. It has come out because some of thier employers strongly complained to me about our DH's persisitent attitudes towards their helpers.
Your prompt reply and suggestion would be highly appreciated
thank you very much
Please support our advertisers:
given my past history with my DH's....i say i see trouble ahead and would advise you to terminate her. you can email me if you like to know more in detail.
Please support our advertisers:
Actually I prepared the warning letter last night as a proof of her bad behavior. My stress about her builds up quicker than anything else. I hope this warning letter will help me make things easier.
thanks, Ms Miggins and cali3 n lyn
Please support our advertisers:
Gotcha Ms Miggins.
I was going through your thread titled "thinking of firing Helper(again!!)" you were so generous to her. I think I was as well, buying her various gifts, allowing her stay out twice a month,providing her with a comfortable room, and letting her go to bed 8:30pm etc. Although she had a history of being fired in one day by previous employer I hired her giving her second chance. Actually I now rgret not having contacted her ex employer. She said it was simply because of her health reason but I doubt.
Her relatives live in HK, some of them are overstay for more than 7yrs. She once clearly stated in front of me "overstay is not criminal act at all. HK immigration will release overstay Philippina easily after paying air tkt fee". I reckon she will follow their path after being fired by us, doing part-time job.
After all she took advantage of my kindness. Was it wrong for me to expect her to return somewhat?
Better stop being gloomy now. It was sour, indeed sour experience for me but I've learnt a lot. Ms Miggins, good luch in finding your right helper.
Please support our advertisers:
I paid out half of my helper's debts of $30,000 and afterward her grumpy attitude got even grumpier. She quit one month later to return to the Philippines. Moral: Don't lend your helper money!
Please support our advertisers:
Hi Guys
Help me out here please. Apart from other debts, it seems my DH handed over her passport to an "agency" last July to borrow $1500. She was charged $300 immediately to join the "club" and ended up (insert garbled explanation in here) owing them $2000 in total.
They have taken her passport.
Now with the 15% a month interest she owes them $5000.
Is there any legal way we can get her passport back and just pay a reasonable amount for it or do we have to pay the full amount from these extortionists?
Please support our advertisers:
well because I hate seeing people getting taken advantage of.
Please support our advertisers:
I just feel disappointed. Our helper has been with us for 5 months. She borrowed one month's salary from us last month to repay her father's hospital costs. Now she is asking to borrow another two months pay so that her husband (who is unfaithful to her) can have an operation.
On one hand, if I have the capacity to help someone, then I want to. On the other hand, I feel a bit used and that there is a lack of trust. She bought a lock for a cupboard in her room without asking yet, we leave money around, my jewelry is at home etc etc.
I don't know. I just feel that these ladies take advantage sometimes and try to get away with it.
Please support our advertisers:
thanks jbebeb,
just had a chat with the DH. she of course did the crying thing.
my husband and i decided to lend her the money in good faith. i asked her exactly how much she owed from this time and last (of course, the story was different from the last time). i figure if she is doing wrong by us, 'what goes around, comes around' sooner or later.
Please support our advertisers:
Please allow me to make a complain and to ask you all
a question again.
Although I gave her the second chance after she'd settled the outstanding payment some time in Feb.
The shocking fact is taht I've got a phone call again tonight from collection agency asking for settlement of another outstandig payment.
My hubby and I've decided to fire her after going through such repeated & repeated her lies.
My neighbor also informed me that she is too much obsessed with conversation on phone while she is supposed to keep an eye on my child outside at the playground. I've confirmced from my child too that"she is talking talking talking on the phone.
does anyone have any idea that she still can go to the labour tribunal after signing the temination paper, getting wages (from xxx to xxx), untaken annual leave, fd allowance, and wage in lie of notice (one month salary)?
rgds
Please support our advertisers:
Question:
1. Did you pay your DH by check or bank transfer, i.e., some third party to proof your payment?
2. Did you state clearly in your terminaton paper your last payment is the last payment for the employment?
3. Did the termination leter list in detail about the payment you said above?
I did with my DH last year under the same situation, in fact, she steal from me to pay the interest. I pay her only through bank transfer, so there is always proof on the payments. Also, the termination letter clearly listed all the detail of the payment I made, in check. That is to counter the possible arguement in the future.
Please support our advertisers:
Thank you for your prompt reply.
"X" day is early April & we are working on the termination process, she of course doesn't know yet. I will follow your instruction , however, as to the past payment I always paid by cash because she noted on her first salary day that the bank couldn't accept my husband's cheque, since then I'd always let her sign the wage receipt paper as a proof, starting with
I , xxxxxxx ID/passport No xxxxxx, acknowledge recept of payment of the following items from my
employer xxxxx on d/m/y in cash.
wages: xxxxx
inclusive of payment for the tollowing
(a) statutory holidays xxx
(b) annual leave xxx
(c) sick leave xxxxxxx
(d) fd allowance xxxxx
witnessed by xxxxxx
The above-mentioned past records (payment in cash) can be legal proof for our payment and can counter her attack which might happen in the future? This is the only our concern.
Lastly sorry to hear that you also went through the same bitter experiece.
Please support our advertisers:
Actually, the discovery of her stealing from us was a furtunate incident. We were thinking of coming back to Canada for sometime in 2004 and was considering taking her along with us. Which in Canadian law, we will have to be her sponsor for her immigration. For a lawyer to get her here would have costed us US$5,000. So, we considered ourselves lucky.
As to your paying cash habbit, I've heard plenty of arguments in the labour tribunal that the DH claim the employer force them to sign receipts while the payment was never made. I hope at least your bank statement can show the exact amount you paid your DH.
Good thing was at lest you whown on your letter that there is a witness. But sometimes DH will go all out to lie so that they can stay in HK longer for a chance to get another job. They are allowed to stay in HK when their case is under investigation.
I told my DHs to get a HK bank account the first day they start working for us. I went down to the ATM machine to make the transfers. May be that's what you should do next time.
Good luck
Please support our advertisers:
Thank you very much Monica.
I won't hire a full time helper anymore because I've had enough. I'll think about a helper w/ permanent HK visa to come 2-3 per week.
Lastly my biggest mistake as to the current helper(actually the 1st helper ) was not to listen to what local people say about her based on their actual experience. I strongly regret to have ignored their sincere advice.
Please support our advertisers:
You must be logged in to be able to reply.
Login now
Copy Link
Facebook
Gmail
Mail