Posted by
hkmoths
19 yrs ago
The Plot:
Full time working parents with 2 y.o. daughter. DH of 9 months employment appears attentive to child care duties when parents are at home. The primary reason the DH is employed is to take care of the daughter whilst parents are at work. 2nd child due in a few months.
DH's performance (attention to work details, attitude to employers and employers' guests) when the employers are at home has steadily worsened from good to barely acceptable. When employers' relatives have been "overseeing" DH recently, DH's manner was poor to unacceptable, the DH spent most of the time on the phone, not on the job. Also a neighbour noticed a lack of DH's attention to child minding - including letting the child play unattended in the balcony on one occasion, which the DH denied. This morning she broke the on-off switch on an automatic kettle, but claimed that she did not break it. Certain regular daily/weekly jobs that have been written down (posted on the fridge) and agreed upon are no longer followed, even after many reminders.
The Question
Is this sufficient for dismissal by "habitual negligence" or "dishonesty"?. If not, are there sufficient grounds to install cctv to monitor the DH's performance in the main living room and kitchen?
Would be grateful for objective comments please.
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If things are not working out you can terminate her contract with a months notice or a months pay in lieu - I don't think you need to have a reason to terminate a contract - or do you if you want to not pay any dues?? Sounds like you need to get rid of her with or without a reason.
With regard to video - you can do that without a reason - it is your house.
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Thanks to dimac4 and jbebeb for comments.
We've read the riot act to the DH, in writing. She is yet to sign. If she refuses to accept then it will be byebye time as we included text to the effect that she must be professional in her attitude and undertake work as had been agreed in writing. If she can't hold to that then we regard it as breech of contract. In the mean time the DH will be informed of cctv installation and use for everyone's security. All monies she's received (salary and Christmas bonus) are signed for, and we will get her to sign for any other matters that will arise from dismissal. The only doubt we have is whether or not there are grounds for summary dismissal
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MC
19 yrs ago
hkmoths, I hope you realize that in most of these cases where the helper is so irresponsible, she will never get better. Putting a cctv in is not solving anything. You should just let her go. You don't need a reason. Just like people get fired from their jobs for "you are not performing". All very subjective. There are many good hellpers out there.
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Summary dismissal allows the employer to immediately terminate the employment contract without any compensation paid to the employee. The 4 grounds of summary dismissal are listed in the Employment Ordinance. It is a serious matter and you must have evidence, or else it is very likely that the helper will accuse you of wrongful dismissal.
On an objective basis, her "bad attitude" is unlikely to justify summary dismissal, but her negligence in child care (since it was witnessed by your neighbour) would probably suffice. I suggest you to obtain a statement from your neighbour just in case you may need it in future proceeding.
Alternatively, you can opt to "pay her out" - i.e. pay her 1 month wages in lieu of notice. This seems to be a better option than one month notice. It is difficult to tell how she would feel in that last month - and there are cases that helpers revenge by hurting / molesting their employers' children. Surely you don't want to take this risk!!
If you think paying her off is against your principle contrary to equity, which I totally agree, then you can prepare to fight your case in court. I am confident that the court will reach a fair and just conclusion.
Good luck!
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Agree w/ the last post. I wouldn't let her work the notice. In our company, for example, people in certain jobs are always paid off instead of working a notice period, as it is thought that they could cause problems (stealing customers or information, or things like that). I think looking after your children and house is a job that falls into this category.
Pay her off, do everything completely legally and more on top if possible so she has absolutely no cause to complain. Oh, and if she signs something, makes sure she just signs, and doesn't put "read by" in front of her name (I suppose thereby implying that she didn't necessarily agree with what she was signing, in the case of my departing helper). Good luck.
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Paying her off is a small price to pay for peace of mind, although I understand the challenge in finding a new helper when both parents work full time. If nothing else, start interviewing helpers now!
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zalca
19 yrs ago
following this post- i don't really agree that we should make sure the helper doesn't put 'read by' in front of her signature/name. really if they don't agree with what they are signing they have every right to write whatever they like or refuse to sign.
we can't force these girls to comply with our opinions. if they disagree with us, then it is within their rights to take us to the labour department.
come on people - these girls are not slaves. we don't own them and we can't/shouldn't make them sign things they don't want to.
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zalca
19 yrs ago
dear jbebeb = i agree with everything you have just said- and my points still remain.
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Point of fact: Summary dismissal means ONLY that you don't have to pay notice pay. You will still need to pay all other items including repatriation and pay for unused holidays. To do this for anything other than obvious theft, fraud or drunken/disorderly behavior takes time and documentation (several warnings and detailed history of obvious negligence ). Also remember; if your employee so desires they can take you to labour tribunal where you will have to prove to the satisfaction of the judge that the negligence was sufficient to warrant summary dismissal. I have had several instances of this in my company and in most cases it is not worth the time or effort to try and save the money.
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Thanks to all of you for your input. In short, this has been something of a cost-benefit analysis. The DH has not agreed to sign the warning letter, thus cannot give a commitment to maintain professional standards in future. For this she gets dismissed as she has become a liability w.r.t. the child's safety. We probably have sufficient evidence for summary dismissal, though seeing your comments on the effort likely to be required should something nasty turn up and that we both work, it makes more sense (even though it goes against the grain) to pay the DH the one month's compensation and get rid of her with immediate effect. We have spent today signing up a new DH who will start in mid to late April. We are juggling our annual leave and time off allowances in order to cope in the interim!
Once again, thx to all for opinions.
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