We live in a 2400 sq. ft. apartment. We have no kids but we have 2 dogs. We have a live out who cooks, cleans and walks the dogs 3-4 times a day. We pay for her rent ($1500) food & transport ($500). I want to be sure we are paying her a fair amount. We are paying her $3650.
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ShazP
19 yrs ago
Christophr....If you mean...you pay her 3650+1500+500 =5650/-. If so, she is being paid very well.
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pzam
19 yrs ago
sounds more than fair to me. most people just give what's mandated by the govt. It doesn't look like she has a lot of responsibilities.
I'm surprised that the Immigration Dept allowed you a stay out maid with a 2400sq ft flat.
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My sister-in-law (HK citizen) is a graduate trainee in a large firm here and makes $6,200....
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It's fair because it is above the minimum wage, but it's far from not generous. No one says it has to be generous, but the $500 for food and transport is very low in my opinion, unless you allow her to eat at your place and she isn't forced to eat cheap noodles out of a cup.
Paying her accomodation costs is the cost of having a live out (even if illegal). And $1500 probably doesn't get her very much (although it is far cheaper for you to go that route then to give up some space in your 2400 sf flat). Of course, the typical maids quarters in the older flats is also like living in a hellhole, but that doesn't make it right either.
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I was paying just 5000 for my live out local hire.
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
Agree with Barbara30 above, just because other people are paid less does not mean that paying minimum or just above it is fair.
That said christophpr, you seem to be paying above what most people are paying. Many people (even we so called 'generous' expats) do not pay as much as $5630, and expect their helpers to double as housekeepers and surrogate parents. Cleaning up after 2 adults and walking dogs for $5630 is a relatively good deal, and can certainly be deemed 'fair'.
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
Barbara 30, agree that the fast food comparison is facile. However, given that they are paying for her accommodation and transport, and their demands seem to be lower than most of us on our DHs (i.e. the poor girl is not 'on call' all day every day), she probably even has some time for another part time job, I think they are paying a competitive salary.
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
Well, for starters, many DHs start work before 7am and do not finish until about 9pm. Secondly, there is a minimum wage, which is s starting point for measuring market value. They may have free housing, but with that comes a total lack of privacy. They have to sit outdoors on a Sunday (or what little time they have off) because they have no space of their own (did you see them sitting under flyovers etc. yesterday to get shelter from the rain?).
I don't think that anyone is suggesting that we should be paying enough for dinners at Felix or first class air tickets, but not all expats live like that either. We probably eat out once a week (and before you attack me saying that that is because I have a helper to do the rest of the cooking - I don't).
The key difference is that fast food workers, cleaners etc. have some control over their hours. DHs are 'on call' 6 days a week. And you may agree that bis is wrong to expect them to act as both nannies and housekeepers, but a huge number of them do. I interviewed a number of people recently to manage 3500 sq. ft. houses/apts and look after anything between 1 and 3 children, while both (expat) parents work full time. Are you telling me that they are not explioting the situation? Imagine what they would be paying in the US/UK.
Just because there is poverty all over HK, we should not feel free to use it as justification for exploitation.
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
Well, for starters, many DHs start work before 7am and do not finish until about 9pm. Secondly, there is a minimum wage, which is s starting point for measuring market value. They may have free housing, but with that comes a total lack of privacy. They have to sit outdoors on a Sunday (or what little time they have off) because they have no space of their own (did you see them sitting under flyovers etc. yesterday to get shelter from the rain?).
I don't think that anyone is suggesting that we should be paying enough for dinners at Felix or first class air tickets, but not all expats live like that either. We probably eat out once a week (and before you attack me saying that that is because I have a helper to do the rest of the cooking - I don't).
The key difference is that fast food workers, cleaners etc. have some control over their hours. DHs are 'on call' 6 days a week. And you may agree that bis is wrong to expect them to act as both nannies and housekeepers, but a huge number of them do. I interviewed a number of people recently to manage 3500 sq. ft. houses/apts and look after anything between 1 and 3 children, while both (expat) parents work full time. Are you telling me that they are not explioting the situation? Imagine what they would be paying in the US/UK.
Just because there is poverty all over HK, we should not feel free to use it as justification for exploitation.
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mrsl
19 yrs ago
Well, for starters, many DHs start work before 7am and do not finish until about 9pm. Secondly, there is a minimum wage, which is s starting point for measuring market value. They may have free housing, but with that comes a total lack of privacy. They have to sit outdoors on a Sunday (or what little time they have off) because they have no space of their own (did you see them sitting under flyovers etc. yesterday to get shelter from the rain?).
I don't think that anyone is suggesting that we should be paying enough for dinners at Felix or first class air tickets, but not all expats live like that either. We probably eat out once a week (and before you attack me saying that that is because I have a helper to do the rest of the cooking - I don't).
The key difference is that fast food workers, cleaners etc. have some control over their hours. DHs are 'on call' 6 days a week. And you may agree that bis is wrong to expect them to act as both nannies and housekeepers, but a huge number of them do. I interviewed a number of people recently to manage 3500 sq. ft. houses/apts and look after anything between 1 and 3 children, while both (expat) parents work full time. Are you telling me that they are not explioting the situation? Imagine what they would be paying in the US/UK.
Just because there is poverty all over HK, we should not feel free to use it as justification for exploitation.
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I thought jbebeb had stated a while back that his wife is/was an Indonesian DH???
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Get over yourself Barbara. Of course the amount of living money required by a DH is different from someone coming from a western country. What a daft argument!!!!
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Yes, Barbara30, your arguments are not terribly logical. My employer is one of the richest men in HK and could certainly afford to pay me more than he does. Do I go crying to him about that? Of course, not, that's not how it works. I could also afford to pay more than the price that Wellcome changes for bananas - should I give the cashier more just because I can afford to? Silly argument...
I could afford to pay my helper more than I do (she gets the minimum, although with very good accommodation, I believe), but she is younger than me, owns her house outright, owns a second piece of land that she plans to build a commercial building on and then she will return home. She doesn't feel hard done by, I'm sure.
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