Posted by
Chrispy06
18 yrs ago
My new helper started with us 10 days ago and she has asked us to pay her by end of month; so we agreed and will pay her 10 days work for this month, and going forward we will pay her by end of the month. She then asked us for an advance of $500. We asked her why she needs to get an advance payment and she said she does not have enough money this month to send home. She said when she left her previous job she only had little money. We are very confused as she actually finished her contract (4 yrs with a chinese family) and then started with us right away; there was no break in service so she should not have been paid less money. Also she told us she sends $1050 home every month, it's like 25% of her income, and she said she doesn't spend much in HK. In this case why is she asking for an advance payment then?
Is it very common for helpers to ask for advance? We don't want to encourage this behaviour but meanwhile we want to be nice and reasonable.
Any advice?
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Just say no. Being nice and reasonable would be fine if the helper had a nice and reasonable need (unforeseen emergency etc.) All advancing her now will do is put her behind next month.
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tmk
18 yrs ago
It is fairly common for a DH to ask for an advance. Different employers have different thoughts on the acceptability of this.
We always give one advance at a time to our employees. The amount we will advance depends on how long they've been with us, payback is over a period of time that allows them to still have sufficient money to live, and no more advances until the first is paid off. Our reasoning for providing an advance is that DH's normally don't have credit cards, can't walk into a bank and get a loan etc. Their options are sometimes limited to a pawn shop or someone charging exorbitant interest rates. Do you want some shady character showing up on your doorstep looking for the money the DH owes?
We never ask what the money is for. You may not get the truth, or you may put yourself in an awkward position of knowing something you'd prefer not to know and then feeling obligated to follow up. I don't want to know if the loan is being used for medical tests for a relative as you may now feel obligated to ask how the relative is. Expensive medical treatment may be required so what do you do now? Usually better not to know what the loan is for. Might sound harsh not wanting to know the medical situation of an employees family, but while living in Manila, we had a handful of employees with extended families. We could easily have been looking at fifty or more people that our handful of employees were taking care of, so not asking/knowing medical results was how we handled this.
Of course, your ability to provide a loan factors in. I'd be somewhat concerned with a new employee asking for a loan, especially as they had no lapse between contracts.
We did find out what some of the loans were for. One maid had running water put in her house. Another bought a fridge and this was turned into a source of income as her daughter sold ice. Another had some savings and our loan provided enough for a downpayment for a house. No doubt other loans were spent in ways that perhaps we wouldn't have agreed, but we didn't know what the money was for, it was paid back, so the employees spent their money on what they wanted.
Anyway, it's up to you, but this is what works for us:)
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TC
18 yrs ago
Wanting an advance because she doesn't have enough money to send home is a classic way of thinking for many helpers. If you tell her that she cannot send home what she doesn't have (and that's why she wants the advance anyway) she just won't understand (OK, I'm generalising) even though it's a fact. She'll go and borrow from other sources anyway in that case. And if you do give it to her then it's only the start. You have to be careful because there's a relatively high risk that your employee will disappear one day with an outstanding debt. Tough one. tmk's idea is good, but there's still the risk. Loans & advances etc are one of the topics that should be clearly spelled out (and understood by the propsective employee) at the recruitment stage - along with all the other HR policies.
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Guess what? I spoke to my helper last night that I will give her the advance for this one time only and that my husband and I do not want to encourage this behaviour. 30 minutes later she came to me and told me she didn't want to take the advance payment anymore because she didn't want my husband to get upset. (!)
I was all confused as I thought she must need the money otherwise she wouldn't have asked for an advance payment in her first pay check (while she has only worked for us for 10 days!); but then just the thought of worrying about my hubby getting upset would changed her mind so quickly, then to me it seems she didn't really need the cash then?? Or she was worried that we may let her go (as we have made it very clearly in the interview and also when we signed the contract that we do not tolerate any money problems) so she rather go look for help elsewhere?
I said to my helper that if she really needs the money then I will help her and I don't want her to hide any serious issues from us; but she insisted she's ok and asked me to forget about her asking for the advance payment.
So weird....and I have a bad feeling about this....@_@
Meanwhile, I've noticed that she's not been utilizing the food allowance I have given her to buy proper food, she's been on instant noodles all the time. I know in her previous job she shared food with the chinese family and she only got paid the minimum wage. With us, we do not share food so we offer her a food allowance higher than the standard one and also we pay her more than minumum wage. I don't want her to get sick by eating junk food but I can't control what she eats. I am just worried that she's saving her money for something else?
I terminated my previous helper because she was crap and also she was borrowing money from the loan agencies and she would never be able to pay it off...I really don't want to have another helper in my house with money issues again..O_O
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Pinkstone - we don't dine at home very often and my helper and us have different food preference. This is why we offer her a food allowance so she can buy food she likes, and we pay her more than the standard $300 so she should have no problem buying proper food. I also provide all toiletries including feminine sanitory products so she has her entire salary to herself. If she wants to allocate a small percentage of her income on food I think she can easily afford it.
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Thats why we just let her eat from our groceries...not our leftovers, but from the supplies prepare her own meal. If we give her cash, she will starve herself to send more cash home. If we give her food (and btw I myself eat leftovers so I dont see what wrong with helper eating them, though I dont feed my leftovers to my helper cause they are a good late night meal I can nuke when I get home late from work)she will eat better.
But again. Ask yourself what kind of advance a low income employee in your place of work can expect from their employer...none. It is unprofessional to ask and it is unprofessional for a company to set up a serf-like relationship with the employees.
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pzam
18 yrs ago
Never, tell her not to cook too much. Try making a menu for her to follow for the whole week so she knows what to cook and how much to cook. That way you avoid too much leftovers. Tell her its unacceptable that she purposely cooks more than needed so she can take food home for her daughter. She is definitely taking advantage of you. I hope this hasn't been happening long as she may develop an attitude once you change the 'rules' on her. good luck.
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Agree with PZAM, give your helper a menu to follow and make it clear to her she should not be cooking too much on purpose.
Again, I don't want to stress too much on whether my helper is eating healthly or not. Just that the fact that she has asked for an advance payment and meanwhile not spending her food allowance properly make me worry that she has financial issues. My hubby and I believe that if a helper has financial issues there is always going to be more issues following..O_O
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Yes and thats why I suggest not to even step on the slippery slope.
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Whoever wrote about 'skimming' the food allowance - unless you specifically mention in the contract that this is only to be spent on food and must all be spent on food then she is perfectly at liberty to spend it or not on whatever she wants. Same as when a company provides an employee with a rent allowance - it generally is completely up to the employee whether they rent a luxury flat or live in Chungking and pocket the savings.
This is why I will not give a food allowance.
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a.m.
18 yrs ago
I am a Filipino domestic helper myself. There is so much risk for an employer on a helper asking for advance payment. And I believe that 95% of Filipino FDH has a spending problem whatever the case maybe. And sometimes we don't have ethics, I do not ask for advance simply because I have not work for it and I can not say there are 10 chicks if the 10 eggs are not yet hatched. Tell your helper that you have had a problem with the previous helper when it comes to money, and make it clear to her that if she does the same you will not hesitate to fire her even if you really like her and that you need a helper. When it comes to food allowance I would say even 500.oo dollars is not enough for a proper meal as you expect her to eat properly, what proper food you expect a helper to eat if she is only have 16.66 dollars a day to spend.
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I could eat healthily for $16.66 a day. Yes, it would be boring and involve preparing everything from scratch, but it's perfectly possible. Food in HK is not expensive.
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Yes
1. No one said that the helper can not use their own income to supplement their food allowance.
2. No one said they need to be fed on their off time or in a luxurious fashion.
3. A great majority of Hong Kong people earn below 7000 per month and have to fully support themselves on that wage. Food, Rent, Supplies, even care for other relatives (elderly) and saving for home etc.
I posted the following a while ago and I guess it is needs refreshing.
But it is not 10 dollars per day it is 300 dollars per month and that is a substantive difference. You can buy large bulk staple goods at a much lower price than buying a cup of rice a day.
Now here’s what I have bought for just 298.80 in my local Parknshop. I am certain I could have cut at least 30 dollars off in the local markets.
3000 grams Noodles
5000 grams Rice
1800 grams Potato
6500 grams assorted vegetables including Chinese green vegetables, carrots, lettuce, cucumbers and squashes.
4 liters UHT full fat (same price for skimmed) milk
15 gala apples
15 oranges
3000 grams assorted meat (Pork, Chicken, Fish and Canned Ham)
Daily Nutrition (better than the RDA of any western country on all aspects)
326 grams carbohydrate (excluding fruits and vegetables)
230 grams fruit and vegetable
100 grams meat per day (fat & protein)
133ml milk per day (fat & protein)
Monthly expense $298.80
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I don't pay anything outright. That said my helper has often baked simple cakes to take on her rest day and I never object. Also she often comes home early enough and makes dinner for herself once back home. I suppose she probably also prepares breakfast before she goes out. I don't really care, the point is that even given a 30 day month 300 per month cash allowance is ample.
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a.m.
18 yrs ago
what can you eat healthy for 16.66 dollars a day for three meals? Remember the helper is a Filipino and works hard. She runs the house and thinks of lots of other things as well as she runs the house and all these are within running the house. You maybe work hard but you only one thing to think about at your work. Will you please tell me what can One eat healthily with 16.66 dollars 3meals a day.
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bw
18 yrs ago
a.m. - have you read chefcrsh's post regarding what one can buy with just under 300$ ? You don't think that is healthy buying ? Or is it that helpers don't have time to cook for themselves so should be given enough to buy 3 meals a day ? In that case is eating out always healthy ?
We are a family of 4 - our monthly expense from PNS and wet market is about 1300$ every month (which includes stuff like toilet paper/tissue paper and other non-food items) So divide that by 4 people and we are spending that much on our daily meals. We eat a variety of vegetables, fish, chicken, rice and fruits. We rarely eat out. So I know we can do more than "survive" on 300$/person/month.
And before someone attacks me - my helper eats what we eat !
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Ed
18 yrs ago
We've got a couple of bans and loads of deletions on this thread.
The door swings out for anyone who insists on posting sarcastic or insulting comments on our forums.
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Agree w/ jbebeb
they don't look at a forest but a tree.
HK3000 something plus HK300, enough to buy food.
Phillipins' GDP (nominal) per capita is USD 1,159, that means USD96.5 per month.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
They can get enough food and send enough money back to Philippines.
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