Are we too picky?

We employed a helper who started in oct and was recommended by a friend (very generous expat family) who she worked for five years. We are also expats and offered her 4000 a month (prev getting 5K) she is in her 50s and lots of experience. In the first week she asked me for money for clothes, a tv and refigerator and stereo - we said - we'll see as we had intended to buy some of these things for xmas depending on how things went but really didn't like being asked for it before we even got to know her. She also tried to insist that we had to buy her clothes to work in which I know is not the case. In addition she wanted food allowance but to eat our evening meal which she would prepare.


Since then she has been very good at some things (eg knows how to cook and quite good at cleaning but we have issues.


we give no allowance but that she could eat our food however whenever we buy more expensive stuff eg ben and jerrys icecream etc she digs in without checking and she eats the last of many of these items without checking if we want it first. nothing is off limits to her and she never checks with us (eg if we want takeaway leftovers) she also finished off expensive deli type items and put back the container empty in the fridge (without letting us know it was finished)

she also ended up getting a fridge (not from us) and seems to hoard food in it (mix of ours and stuff she and her friends buy) so i'm just never sure if she is taking advantage or not.


with the shopping three times she has gone to the shop and missed something that i have asked her to buy but always manages to spend all the money but she prioritises what she thinks. I had hoped to leave money for her to manage but she just spends it all regardless of what we need. for eg went to the shop yesterday and did not buy cat litter although none left and she is now off for three days (and this was on the list)


other things include not washing car twice a week as i instructed her to do (just when she feels like it) and yesterday preparing food for her xmas party before cleaning our flat and preparing some things that I asked her to make for us.


she also sulks when I talk to her about things or ask her to do something differently.


anyway there are some good sides - we do trust her not to take cash or our property and we have a new baby and i know long term that she will be good with him but things just aren't going smoothly and i seem to need to keep talking to her - is this normal and am i going to have worse problems with others?? also while i would have asked her to call us by our first names she started doing it without checking - again small thing.

She sounds a lot like a helper a friend recently fired.


I think you need to be clear with the rules and regulations of your home and her job duties, I would sit down with her and review them again. If there are still issues after 2 weeks I would sit down with her again and ask her if there is a reason she... did not wash the car, ate the food, etc... IF there is no good reason, and she just sulks, I really think you should consider the future of the situation.


As for the food, you need to clearly explain what is included and what is off limits. And maybe revert to a food allowance instead (from what you wrote it would cost you less!).


I am not trying to be mean, but if any employee (dh or in an office) does not follow instructions well and does not do assigned tasks without good reason, it is not acceptable. Have the talk, be extra sure instructions are clear the next 2 weeks, and if things don't improve consider your options.


Good luck.


BTW in the case of my friend, she is now thrilled with her new helper - who follows instructions is safe with house baby and money and generally very pleasant!

Hi Pinkie...yeah your DH is taking the p*ss!!

First of all, Pinki didn't say she's a well off expat !


Second of all, the helper is being paid quite a bit higher than the minimum. She's only on 1st contract with Pinki.


Thirdly, EVEN as a DH of a well off EXPAT, doesn't mean one has to accept a DH who seems to "take advantage" of a tolerant employer.


I think this helper is TOO experienced... not only in Domestic chores, but how to get "what she wants" and "take advantage" from her employer.


I have heard of many DH like this, if talking to her doesn't work, most likely you won't be employing very long, b/c you won't be able to stand it much longer. Usually, some time down the road, things get worse b/c you don't say what is already bothering you.

i know i'm going to sound scrooge-like and unpopular, but i would be quite ok living on 4000 per month, assuming that my board and lodging, food and transport were paid for. but that's just my feeling!



merry christmas! ho ho ho!

(PS and before anyone says anything, i love my helper and appreciate everything she does!)

hello jwm. no- i don't care to try again! why would i? but if i needed to i could survive on it. in fact i know from experience that i would be fine.actually there is no 'survival' necessary. the only problem would be if i had to send money home to the philipines to relatives and children. but that's a different argument isn't it? anyway- you've obviously got your own view. may i suggest you open your eyes a little in 2007 and take off your rose tinted goggles!


take care everyone, employers, and helpers all!

She's NOT living on $4000 a month - I don't know why people are suggesting this... the average worker in HK does not have $4000 a month left over after food/accommodation. People work as cleaners for $5000 a month with nothing else paid for - this is their total income. I don't have that much left over myself each month. The helper in question is just being bad - if your employer asks you to do something reasonable then you do it - that's just the way employment works. If an employee constantly forgets things (like shopping - for goodness sake - take a list, it's not hard...) then they would firstly get a warning or two, and then they would get fired. I think this helper is definitely trying to take advantage of her new employer, and would benefit from a serious talking to. No one is irreplaceable, but helpers often tend to think that they are. I know - mine is doing similar stuff...

it's zalca actually. maybe you do need glasses after all! hahahaha

Thanks for replies -r eally helps to hear other views. I know some things (eg the food) seems a bit petty on our behalf but it is the combination of everything. I take JWM point of thinkign of it as any employer/employee relationship in a business perspective (and therefore try to push for what you can) but in that case I would definately not stand for someone ignoring reasonable direction (eg what to buy at the shop) and also not everyone works like this. I think it is a bit different as they are living in your home and we had hoped she would become kind of part of the family but I dont' think that kind of relationship can be established when she came in with the attitude she had. but this has all really helped put it in perspective. I will review things with her after new year - she is sulking at the moment as I only gave her a box of chocs for xmas - clearly she expected more and again i was planning on giving her somehting more but felt that if we are unhappy with things it would not be the right thing to do (eg I wouldn't give an employee in an organisation a bonus for poor performance). I want to give her a second chance although this will be the third time I've had to talk to her so we will see.

that's better! thank you!

pinkie,


fire her. she's definitely taking advantage of you and will continue to do so. for local chinese, they will generally not hire DH over the age of 50 because they are too stuck in their ways and will not listen to instructions (i had personal experience of this as well)


reading the experiences of expats in this forum, it seems as if they are too generous and get taken for a ride without knowing it. don't get me wrong, we give a lot to our DH in many ways and pay above the min. wage. however, at the end of the day, the DH is not your friend. she is an employee.

JWM, we each have our own opinions, you are right. I didn't personalize my response to you, would appreciate the same. I merely was pointing out your conclusion (you jumped to one) that Pinkie is a "well off " expat.


As many expats write in here time and time again, many of them are NOT on a WEALTHY and hefty expat package necessarily, many work hard to just keep up with the rent, the transportation costs, food costs, school tuition for kids.....


point is STILL, a DH is being paid ABOVE the legal minimum, and there is no clause in the contract, nor is it a typical traditional gesture between employers and DH to receive or any cash bonus for Christmas.


I know families who are NON-religious, Christmas is simply NO celebrated in their household, how about that?

HI, is your maid called Nita by any chance ?

Funny, I was going to ask if she was called Hannah....

My first helper was a nightmare.

Been in HK 14 years, knew all the tricks, had a totally separate double life going on whilst I was oblivious ( I found out through friends that she was working for someone else whilst I was at work). This may be a bad case, and not all women are like this, but already, after 6 months, my new helper forgets, ignores, sulks, acts like a child.

I find I need a mix of patience, schoolmistressness(!) and downright bloodymindedness to deal with it.


We did not give her an Xmas bonus at the last minute ( the cash was in my purse ready) because I just had a feeling that this was setting me up for ever more in terms of expectation ( I didn't get a bonus from my employer) - Though we have flown her home for Xmas and bought a couple of presents for her kids. If she sells these, its up to her, they were a gift.

She is a lovely, patient woman with our baby, and frankly there are just times when maybe she is in a bad mood.I don't always like MY job, but if I didn;t do it I would be fired- I have told her this and she miraculously becomes Worlds Best. Don't guilt yourself ( or let anyone else guilt you) over a cultural difference. It cannot be avoided.

These ladies need a job, they are bettering the lives of their families and ultimately themselves, as are most of us by being here also. Anyone is free to pay above the going rate or give extra if they feel it is required. Too many Hk'ers go with the pack, you do not need the permission of this site to fire/reward your helper- its your call.

If I could hire a western nanny or send my kid to a preschool from 1 year like in the UK, I would- NO question. I do not care if someone else cleans my toilet, I can do it myself.

Re; Cat litter- I had the same, and still have the same issue with water, nappies and washing powder. We had a frank conversation, she admitted she basically did not want to carry them from welcome and suggested I order it online! ( I now do.). I was not offended, anyhting that works for us both is good, but don;t listen to all the bleeding hearts on this site who bleat on about 4,000/month. Your helper would NOT be here if it was not worth it to her in some way.

I didn't see the bit about cat litter - we have the same issue exactly...

Pinkie, I'm just wondering whats the latest situaton with your helper as I have a friend who's in similar situation and asked for my opinion. Thanks.