what do I do if my helper stays out late all the time? comes home drunk?
how do i get rid of her? this is usually on a Sunday- but she also want s to go out Friday and Saturday if we don't.
or should i accept it- she says she has 24 hours to do what she likes?
who is right?
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oh god we had one like this. its awful. she would always leave the house at 9 on saturdays and then supp to be back home at 9 on sund but would call me at 8 and say she will be late and come at 11. and would come home reeking of alcohol. 2-3 times i pulled her up and she gv me the 'its my holiday and i can do whatever i like' and then the day she came hom reeking of cigarette i gv her one mths salary and kicked her out! some of these women! my god!! then i found out thru my neighbours helpers that if my husband and i went out to din on fri nite she would be sitting on back door steps with 2-3 other helpers drinking BEER FROM MY FRIDGE!! ahhhh! and i have young kids!!! i wouldnt keep her another day! it just gets worse. be prepared to get the posters that will gv u the 'they are human and need a life' but i wouldnt tolerate it if i were u....esp if u hv kids!!! yikes!!
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I guess you have to treat it a bit like (most) military organizations. What they do on their own time is your business, but it may not affect their ability to carry out their duties. She's a big girl. If she can handle it...
Some people can drink pretty hard and often, then still function in a perfectly normal way at work. They have self-discipline and self-control. Others just cannot do it. You need to figure out which one is the case here.
If a helper comes home a bit tipsy, it's one thing. Even if she comes home ripped on occasion (so long as she's not waking up the house as she comes in). But if she is still drunk in the morning at the designated "start work" time, or so hung over she is not functioning properly (your definition, not hers), you should definitely warn her that the next time it happens you will terminate her.
You also have to decide if you cannot trust her. Needless to say, if you cannot trust your helper for any reason you should see if you can solve the problem by letting her know about it. If that is not possible you have no choice but to terminate her.
Hyperactivebunny, your experience is quite awful. Not only was she drunk, she also stole and broke your trust while watching the kids. As I see it that's much worse than just drunkenness.
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im a helper.. and i have a pretty cool boss.. ok some of the employers by the next thing im going to say.... i do drink and am a smoker. the difference is i dont drink during work hours/days... if we go out to dinner they would offer me beer.. but i decline.... i never came home drunk or if i have a bit of a hang over i take my remedy.. which is lots of coffee and about 2-3 aspirins.. keeps me alert and gey rid of my hangover.. i bring spare clothes and toothbrush when i go out....so i wont smell of alcohol.. smelling of smoke isnt a big deal as they smoke.. and my employers kids never have seen me smoke....
i think its a matter of respect and self control.... and of cours dedication to the job...
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Who is right?"
she is, to a certain degree.
There is no definite rule or guidelines ( that I know of ) what a helper is supposed to do and not to do after working time. The general rule of thumb is that, stay-in helpers are expected to be on call 24 hours a day. Some, to the point of being abused, but in most cases, on certain emergencies, like when the kids/boss are sick and need tending to during the night.
24 hours, is 24 hours. But if you have to ask me, us , helpers do have an obligation to be considerate to our employers. We have this saying back in the Philippines that loosely say " no self-respecting woman/lady should still be caught wandering out in the streets/bars /pubs during ungodly hours ". That should be applicable to helpers too. Now and then is fine, or staying our during consecutive holidays are totally acceptable too. But if she insisted on having nights off during weekends that generally affected her Monday morning, then she is being irresponsible. Irresponsibility that could lead to negligence, and every worker in every industry knows that...that could lead to you, being fired.
True, Us, maids are entitled to our 24 hours off wherein what we do is no one's business but ours. However, employers are entitled to be worried as well especially where there are signs of "the morning after adverse effect".
If employers can allow their maids to have a little life -social, amorous or whatever- then they should. After all, happy people are better workers. With such "perks", it is the part of the maid to be responsible and take advantage of such, but NOT abused nor compromise her work and whine about the lose privilege later on.
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"If employers can allow their maids to have a little life -social, amorous or whatever- then they should. After all, happy people are better workers. With such "perks", it is the part of the maid to be responsible and take advantage of such, but NOT abused nor compromise her work and whine about the lose privilege later on."
Well said.
"The general rule of thumb is that, stay-in helpers are expected to be on call 24 hours a day"
Really? We would never ask our helper to be on call like that. At night she is on her own time. Unless there's a major emergency like having to take a kid to the hospital so she has to watch the other (who will be asleep anyway), we would never dream of disturbing her.
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axpat...you've dissected that paragraph. Your example covers the emergencies in most cases as well. But yes, convenience and perhaps security is one of the reason why people hire stay in helpers. Luckily, very few that I am aware of got woken up during their rest time for petty reason/s. Most of the cases reported, helpers has to work until past midnight and are expected to begin at 6 am.
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let's get back on topic
why the OP needs to even ask for advice on this is beside me (I suspect it is the same disease that results in threads here that ask whether employers are required to provide a DVD player, personalise cable channels, broadband, computer access, separate fixed lines, etc in their helpers' rooms...do a search if you don't believe me)
if a helper comes home hungover and smelling of cigarette smoke (whether once a week or sometimes several times a week in the OP's case), that's a serious problem in my book and I reckon any family with young children or likes peace and quiet...I don't care if your helper gets 12 hours, 24 hours or the entire weekend off, what she is doing is not only rude and disrespectful but outright stupid (assuming she values her job)...telling you that she can do whatever she wants during her time off is hogwash and just a foreshadowing of the challenges you will have to deal with later
I would terminate your helper now and then think about what type of questions you can ask during the interview the next time around so that you can avoid this predicament again. Maybe you don't want to seem like Puritan, but I think it is fair game to explain to a prospective helper upfront that you do not condone the "partying" type of behavior you are dealing with now.
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"axpat...you've dissected that paragraph. Your example covers the emergencies in most cases as well. But yes, convenience and perhaps security is one of the reason why people hire stay in helpers. Luckily, very few that I am aware of got woken up during their rest time for petty reason/s. Most of the cases reported, helpers has to work until past midnight and are expected to begin at 6 am."
souffleQueen. Apologies if I was unclear or misinterpreted your post. In any case I definitely think helpers should not need to be on call (unless specified in the contract and compensated for with increased salary), for petty reasons or not. Unless someone is going to the hospital or the house is burning down, I can't really think of any reason to wake our helper.
So if she wants to go out and have a couple of beers any day of the week, no problem as long as she can handle it and does not disrupt the house. We don't impose a curfew. It's abusive.
I will agree with tsuiwah though, because I think the thread starter is dealing with a situation far worse than just a few drinks.
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Jctom
17 yrs ago
terminate her if her attitude is like that.
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Tsuiwah, excellent post.
I too think in this forum, there are those employers who keep insisting the DH is an "employee" and makes comparisons to an employee in an office environment.... giving anecdotes.... it's like comparing apples and oranges!
DH has a very special "place" in a household. She is YES, definitely an employee, HOWEVER, because of her job being PART of the family/household/domestic routine, and very close to everything/everyone in the household, she is not JUST an employee. She is a human being, living under the same roof as each person in my family! As a result, what I expect from my family regarding to respect, manners, tone of voice, food we eat, picking up after oneself, going out, calling home if one is going to be late, have own keys...etc.
Why should I make a separate set of rules for the DH.... ? It's impossible to do that, because it goes against EVERYTHING I say, believe, and preach in this household. That's why it's unbelievable how any employer would allow a "drunk" helper to come home, because of a 24 hour rest rule, and the concept of the DH being a full grown adult. Give me a break. I know a WHOLE bunch of these girls .... do not know what they are doing most of the time here in HK. They are naive, simple minded, inexperienced.... being taken advantage of either by lonely men in Wan Chai bars, or their so called friends asking them to be a guarantor of a loan, or just paying for drinks, or borrowing money directly from them...etc. One girl I know, ran off with a guy (she's already married in Philippines)... because she said he promises to marry her once she goes to London with him. She quit her job here, with 1 month notice to my friend, and just took off with him leaving her family in Philippine uninformed.
Back to the OP, I wouldn't accept this type of behaviour more than 1x. If you warn her, and that's her attitude, intending to repeat it, and because it's HER freedom and rights to do so, I can't imagine 3 months from now, and when you are not home.... how can you expect such a person so irresponsible to take care of your children?
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Momoftwo, I agree that helpers should be held to a higher standard than office employees. As you say they are in the household and thus in a sense members of the family. but I still think it's wrong not to treat them like adults.
We don't allow other adults in our household to come home roaring drunk and wake the kids either. ;)
"and the concept of the DH being a full grown adult. Give me a break. I know a WHOLE bunch of these girls .... do not know what they are doing most of the time here in HK. They are naive, simple minded, inexperienced...."
The behaviors you list are certainly indicative of some helpers, but there are also plenty who are responsible, hard working and completely trustworthy.
It's a matter of mutual respect. We trust our helper to behave like an adult. She trusts us to treat her like one. No need to impose curfews or behavioral restrictions. If that doesn't work, it's time to get a new helper.
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EXACTLY axptguy38. It's only common sense right?
Of course there are many helpers out there who are responsible, and worth trusting. I was referring to the employers who follow the concept of "24 hours rest, full grown adults... etc.) blindly that they would tolerate or suffer silently with the behaviours of their DH, which are often unacceptable DH or not !
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Momoftwo, I think we are on the same page. If the DH wants to be trusted she needs to behave in a manner that justifies the trust.
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Seriously? You would terminate someone because they drink off duty? I would not have held down a job as a graduate trainee for more than a moth if he same standards were applied to me! Sure, we do not allow smoking in our house, but how could I possibly stop our helper from doing so on her downtime? Unless she is falling in the door, waking up the household etc., why is it a problem if she drinks a lot? Of course, if she spends her work days popping pills and unable to function, that's a different story.
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south side, that's what the OP is asking: "coming home drunk..."
Not just a drink or two, I can accept a drink or two with alcohol breath, and she goes into her room for the night until next morning, she's all bright eyed, and ready to work.
Apparently, this is not the case from the OP.
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well,well,all i can say..you guys keep mumbling bout ALL and some or most of the DH, why don't you try to hire a local helpers instead?.. we will see if they will work as 24 hours on call and behave that much on their days off??and recieve a salary as low as a slave??
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"well,well,all i can say..you guys keep mumbling bout ALL and some or most of the DH, why don't you try to hire a local helpers instead?.. we will see if they will work as 24 hours on call and behave that much on their days off??and recieve a salary as low as a slave??"
What's that suppose to mean?
So, basically what you say is- If you pay the minimum wage set then it's ok with the fact that she comes back drunk and the next morning only god knows how she will take care of your baby with the horrible hungover and maybe still a bit tippsy. But If you pay her 15,000 a month then it's not ok that she will be like this?
She has a responsibilty. She could easily say "no" to any offer below her wishes just like a thread that was post some time ago about an Indian employer who said that he/she finds it hard to employ a DH because they don't want to work for Indian employers for whatever reasons they have.
if you come to work after a very late night out and cannot function properly, it doesn't matter how much you get or if they pay you for over time or not, or even if your boss is a nice person or not. You have a responsebility as an adult to decide wether you come to work drunk or not.
If you don't like the place you work at then quit and look for a job where you can behave as you wish.
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it's just common sense..nobody will come back to work that she's "still drunk"..especially that she's going to take care of a baby.as what im trying to say..it's their day off let them do whatever they want..as long as they can perform their duty properly during their working days.if she failed to do so then terminate her contract."Mostly" employers here in hongkong does "not" pay the so called OT..in some other houses word "OT" doesn't exist.as long as the employers are awake,they still want the helpers to work.i have a friend who's working from 6 am to 2am,she can't do anything bout it coz she's afraid and still new here in hk...her only gateway to her hapiness is only on her days off.sometimes the boss is still waking her up early morning during her off days to prepare breakfast and do some stuff for them.
what iam saying again..let her do whatever she wants to do on her days off as long as she's back to normal on her working days..its only one day off in a week give her a break for to do this and don't do that.sometimes i was thinking the only reason helpers gone bad because the employers gone worse.."employers..why don't you try to put your shoe on your helpers for a week..so that you will know how off days are very sacred to us?..
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Agreed with omaharrison and maemae. Respect your helper and her time.
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maemae- now I agree with you, but if you look at the first post, the person was talking about a DH wanting to go out party 3 nights a week.
"why don't you try to put your shoe on your helpers for a week..so that you will know how off days are very sacred to us?.."
It seems like you've been burnt with this issue. This day off should not be seen as a "sacred" day but rather as you put it in your first words "it's just common sense".
This whole DH treatment thing is all about how you see her- as a servant, maid or a helper. Each with different definition and, I believe, regardless of how much you pay her extra.
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