Posted by
chanel2007
16 yrs ago
Need everyone's advice and opinion here. Stuck.
I have two helpers. Both married, with children back in Philippines. First helper with us 4 years now. Second helper 2 years going to 3rd.
Both helper are EXCELLENT in the household.
First helper does all cooking. Takes care of the household, takes care of my elder daughter.
Second helper does not know how to cook. (simple lunch maybe), but main tasks is to take care of my younger son, and she irons, and wash dishes.
Problem: Second helper has been accused of having a bf for over a year. Recently, I have evidence of it being true.
First helper is relative of second helper. She is now giving me an ultimatum. Either second helper goes (I fire her), or first helper will resign.
I don't want either of them to go.
Then I ask myself, does it bother me that she has a bf, and is taking care of my younger son?
What's my role in this?
And, first helper mentioned wanting to work in Canada, but hasn't applied because she still loves working in our household, however, the only factor is this second sister problem now. She says she need to "answer" to her family back home, cannot pretend she doesn't know.
Understood, but what to do ?
Thanks for any advice.
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First of all, this sounds like a right pickle. However there's only so much you can do.
I would agree with F355. As long as it doesn't affect her work, it is her business. I doubt her (lack of) morals will rub off on your children.
"First helper is relative of second helper. She is now giving me an ultimatum. Either second helper goes (I fire her), or first helper will resign."
Calmly call her bluff and let her resign if she wants. She should not be dictating terms to you like that. It is presumptuous and arrogant. If you give in to "blackmail" once there will be no end to it.
"She says she need to "answer" to her family back home, cannot pretend she doesn't know."
Oh poppycock! What a drama queen. Let her talk to the family if she wants.
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Agreed with axptguy38, imagine if you gave in to her wishes of firing her relative? You are the employer, not her. If she does resign, what is the worst that can happen? You hire another helper, there are many out there looking for work.
If you are happy with your helper and she has never brought her personal life/issues into her workplace, then the only person who has a problem is the one who is trying to drag you into personal family problems. Tell her to sort it out herself and you do not wish to be involved. Unless it is affecting either herlper's work, then let them deal with it.
I would definitely nip it in the bud with the one who is giving you an ultimatum though. As aptguy38 said, it's presumptuous and arrogant. She is your employee and needs to know where she stands and that is working for you.
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Agreed with all that mentioned above, she is your employee and should not be issuing you with ultimatums. The fact that she has already mentioned Canada means there is no guarantee she would stay even if you fired the other.
Call her bluff, refuse her ultimatum. As long as the other helper is working as she should her private life is her's alone. She is an adult and will deal with whatever path her life takes her.
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice. I had the same thoughts, however, the first helper is much more capable, and able to help me than the second helper. They are a great team together because of their different strengths. If I stick to keeping the second helper, the first one is having a really hard time dealing with everyday face to face situations. In fact, they don't even talk to each other anymore.
So if I had to choose to keep one, I would want to keep the first helper because she can handle the household from top to bottom, and take care of the kids.
The second helper, I would need to hire one "close" to the capability of the first helper.
It's SO hard!!!!!
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"They are a great team together because of their different strengths. If I stick to keeping the second helper, the first one is having a really hard time dealing with everyday face to face situations. In fact, they don't even talk to each other anymore."
No one is irreplaceable. If one is fantastic but tries a little blackmail like this, there is only one good decision.
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choosing the first helper is right enough. As a filipina I can understand fully her burden living with a relative and knowing her every wrong doings. We (filipinos) are taught to be as least somehow mind our relative's affairs (wrong affairs). "Minding your own business" will not work among filipino families, sorry for that. It may seem like a blackmail but perhaps the first maid is so desperate with their situation that that option is her only choice.
"And, first helper mentioned wanting to work in Canada, but hasn't applied because she still loves working in our household,"
---yeah you see everyone wanted to go to canada but working with a good hearted employers will prevent us from doing such.
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maxis
16 yrs ago
think I'd have to go with Apple on that one.
If culturally it is very repugnant, the first one knowing her relative (in a culture where blood is very close) is doing something considered extemely wrong and disgraceful, would feel very uncomfortable personally, and also to her family and extended family.
The second one has put the first in a very uncomfortable way. Imagine working 24/6 with someone you knew was hurting someone else (i.e. husband back at home) you respected and coujldn't care if other's live got ruined, you'd feel rotten all the time with them in your face! - hell, te first one may have even helped get the second one!
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The first helper is dictating terms in a very arrogant fashion. Giving in can only end badly.
The second helper may have a boyfriend on the side but if it is not affecting her work that's that. It is the second helper's private business, repugnant or not as it may seem. Unless it is blatant, the employer needs to ignore it.
It is not the job of the employer to be a judge of morality unless there are effects on the job. That would be overstepping a great many boundaries.
"We (filipinos) are taught to be as least somehow mind our relative's affairs (wrong affairs). "Minding your own business" will not work among filipino families, sorry for that."
This whole affair has nothing to do with nationality.
"It may seem like a blackmail but perhaps the first maid is so desperate with their situation that that option is her only choice."
Fine. She is free to resign. Good riddance.
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My first helper said EXACTLY the same thing as apple79... (scary, makes me wonder if it's my own helper!) haha.
Anyways, I am totally thinking the same way as axptguy, but have to face the fact that my first helper is the more capable one.
Maxis, you're right, the first helper helped bring the second helper to here. Hence, she feels even more guilty, and responsible for the way things are.
Although I agree, this problem has nothing to do with nationality or race... I think having an affair is not acceptable in any culture! However, I do understand the "tight" bond that Filipino families have, and how everyone's business is everyone's elses business in the family.
I am stalling.
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"I think having an affair is not acceptable in any culture! "
Well, no. However in some cultures it is less taboo than others.
"Anyways, I am totally thinking the same way as axptguy, but have to face the fact that my first helper is the more capable one."
That is indeed unfortunate. I would say that her bad attitude trumps any good qualities she may have. There are excellent helpers aplenty out there.
"I am stalling."
It is not an easy decision.
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well, axpatguy38, I agree with all that you said. However, let me ask you all again.
The first helper ISN'T saying I MUST fire the second one. She is telling me she doesn't like her work environment, and would like to leave. When I asked her if the problem with the second helper is the ONLY reason, she says, Yes. She doesn't really want to go to Canada, but if it's her way of avoiding this kind of situation, then she will consider.
If the second helper is not here anymore, she will stay.
So I am taking into consideration, she has a right to CHOOSE her work environment. And so it happens, the thing that bothers her in her work environment is the second helper.
Is that any different than before then?
I am so STUCK. Husband and I are arguing about this everyday.
He thinks so long as no one is REALLY taking any action, let it be. I personally can't stand seeing the two helpers NOT talking to each other, not willing to sit together , not communicating.... so much tension.
Doesn't bother husband. Bothers me tons.
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"The first helper ISN'T saying I MUST fire the second one. She is telling me she doesn't like her work environment, and would like to leave. When I asked her if the problem with the second helper is the ONLY reason, she says, Yes."
That is indeed tricky.
Sounds like the first is just giving you an ultimatum without saying so. She doesn't like the fact that the other helper is there and wants to leave because of it. Either way the result is the same.
Meh. My wife would probably say that you should fire both and start over. Too much crap flying around right now that will poison the environment for any new helper. Sit them both down and give them an ultimatum: "Either start acting like adults or I will both of you." Don't be afraid to take radical decisions. Why should your family suffer because they are acting like children?
"He thinks so long as no one is REALLY taking any action, let it be. I personally can't stand seeing the two helpers NOT talking to each other, not willing to sit together , not communicating.... so much tension."
I would agree with him if they were really not taking action. But they are taking action. You just described it. So as you have understood something must be done.
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why do we always give a consent to those who do wrongs? Its okay if she will work as a prostitute, that's her own life. Its okay if she will have an extra marital affair, that's her own life? Nationality matters because each nation have their own culture and level of considering sensitive things. You see, that's why we, even here, disagree with topics such as this.
channel2007: I knew my employer is as good as you but don't worry she's not me ;) and just my two cents, come on, follow your heart, you knew whom should you let and and retain and I think you're making the right choice... A person who at least consider morality is always the better one. I knew, I knew axptguy38 will disagree ;). Again just my two cents
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"why do we always give a consent to those who do wrongs? Its okay if she will work as a prostitute, that's her own life. Its okay if she will have an extra marital affair, that's her own life? Nationality matters because each nation have their own culture and level of considering sensitive things. You see, that's why we, even here, disagree with topics such as this."
Yes I see that we disagree. ;)
Personally, I think it is NOT OK for her to have a bf on the side. But that's a personal opinion. That's not the point. The point is that it is none of the employer's business. In my opinion this is the case regardless of nationality.
The employer is not giving consent at all. He/she is simply ignoring things that do not affect the work or the workplace. The employer may think it's a "bad" thing, but he/she is neither parent, relative or other family member. As I mentioned, it is not the job of the employer to be a judge of morality.
Think of it this way. This time it's a bf on the side. But morals are a pretty big subject. What if a catholic employer objects to the choices of a helper who is a Muslim, and tries to convert her? Just as much a moral judgment. Now, adultery is perhaps more clear cut, but I still think employers should not meddle.
Having said all that, of course the employer can talk to the helper about it, especially if they are close. But in these cases it is probably best to keep your distance, unless you (as an employer) get embroiled in a mess of perceived favoritism and gossip.
"A person who at least consider morality is always the better one."
I DO agree with that. However if the woman doesn't let it affect her work, the employer can't do very much about it. That is, the "perceived" morals from the employer's point of view are still good. If the employer takes action specifically because of the adultery, without any other cause, she is taking a stand on things that are outside her purview. She is judging morals which she is not even witnessing.
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If it is getting to the stage where it is causing unrest in your marriage, then you need to take action. Your marriage is much more important then the personal problems of your helpers.
Get the two helpers together and sit them down. Tell them you know all about the situation and you want a resolution to the issue NOW! If they cannot come up with a solution, then you make the decision, on the spot. It may help to have your husband with you to deal with together, that way, things are not misconstrued.
Clearly the problem is not going away, no one wants to make a decision and clearly the helper/s are not going to do anything and want you to take control. So bite the bullet (as much as it's going to be uncomfortable) and end the problem.
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funny enough i had a similar situation - no affair or anything like that - but my second helper and first one sometimes have blazing fights and my first one (also more experienced, we hired her first and then hired her sister in law from Phil) said - you have to fire second one or i go. To which i said - "well, the kids are getting older now and I guess you can handle it all by yourself, maybe we dont need another helper, let me think about it".
Never heard a word from her on the matter after that!
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I agree with axptguy, I agree with apple, and neenib, thanks for the advice about my marriage. It's not to the point where it's threatening my marriage, but it certainly is causing stress to me on top of the everyday things.
I already say them down, nothing resolved. I just said you are my HELPERS, to help me.... why am I dragged into this "family" mess ?
ldsllvn, I told her the same thing, but she says, she rather work with a "stranger" and share a room with a "stranger" than to have to face this "shame" everyday with the second helper.
Sigh.
After that talk, first helper said she will try to "ignore" her. However, this is not the way I want two helpers in the same household to work.... not good for us nor the kids.
I told her to give me to December to make a decision. It's critical time because my little one is starting school.... she said, she will agree to that.
THANKS.
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no, no - tell her "no stranger" - she gets nobody to help - period. Just stay - kids are older now, i think you will be ok - see what she says...
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glad
16 yrs ago
axptguy: drama queen? Maybe its the culture, Iam 1/4 filipino though I did not stay in the philippines for so long I learned from my Granny how strong the family ties are. Eventhough you are not involved in a certain circumstances if you are aware of it you need to answer for it..
chanell2007: Though I do not want blackmailing coz its rude I will choose her over the other helper it is coz I gave into her blackmailing but as a mother I presume it's the right thing...
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