Posted by
aylyeung
16 yrs ago
Understand that contracts for foreign domestic helpers specify 1) they have to live in and 2) they can't drive (unless under special circumstances/permission and for domestic purposes only - ie., no driving employer to work). Is this correct? Does this mean I can't hire a driver to live outside of my home and also drive me to work? Any experience to share?
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That is correct. To do as you require means hiring a local (PR or dependant) at whatever rates they charge.
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cd
16 yrs ago
I think if you hire them as a driver rather than a domestic helper then the rules are different.
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Ed
16 yrs ago
My understanding is that if your helper is going to drive they are only allowed to take kids to school - they cannot act to drive you around... I do not think you will legally be able to hire a personal driver from the Philippines
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Thanks for all the advice! So perhaps the authorities are turning a blind eye? Maybe a local driver would be safer then - any leads on where to find a local one?
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can you really not hire a driver from phillipines? how did all those ph drivers in hk got here then? guess they are not hired as FDHs as they wont be able to drive then?
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cd
16 yrs ago
I don't think thats correct, as I know several fillippino drivers, several of which actually took their driving tests in HK. They are hired as a driver, and get a higher wage. Maybe its worth looking into the driver contract closer.
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cd
16 yrs ago
Yes you need permission for your DH to drive for you, but these guys are not hired as DH but as drivers. I'm sure its a different contract with different regulations.
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cc77
16 yrs ago
Spoke to 3 filipino drivers I met few years ago and asked them how did they get here. They said they were under DH's contract.
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My wife worked in an FDH recruitment agency before. Accdg to her, Filipino drivers here came as DH. Then they took the HK driving license test. Once they got the license, their contract was amended to reflect the driving work. Their salary needed to change accordingly as well. It doesn't matter if you don't want the DH to "live in", as long as you can provide accommodation.
If you really want to get Filipino driver, I have a friend in Manila. He's a professional driver and wants to work here in HK.
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To drive you do require permission from IMMD and the driving must only be for tasks stated. Anything outside is both a breach of immigration rules not to mention you will not be covered by insurance should anything happen. And before someone says"well I have insurance for my driver" let me explain further. In the event of an accident your insurance company will ask for all details including the status of the driver. When it is found they actually do not have permission to drive as part of their duties the insurance company will relinquish cover, in effect no payouts and a risk of prosecution. Worth it?
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cd
16 yrs ago
I checked with someone today whos been through this. They clarified that a fillippino DH can drive as long as its to do with their domestic duties, ie.picking up shopping, taking the kids to school, playdates etc. You can hire a proper fillippino driver but they have to be a HK PR and have the right to work.
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we have a filipino dh (and also employ his wife), whose duties include driving the kids to school, playgroups, etc. he is not a HK PR, but it is legal hire, done by asiaxpat.
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We also have a filipino driver who is actually a woman. She also cooks for us and do some household chores (we're very lucky!). The imm rules are that you apply for a special permission for your foreign domestic helper to drive but the driving must be for domestic duties related tasks. Having kids at home can easily prove that. There are a lot of grey areas e.g. if i go with my kids to school (allowed), bringing me home from school (allowed), taking me to IFC for shopping (allowed if it is for grocery shopping) but not shopping in Lane crawford but it's hard to prove, right? When I first hired my helper, I was very nervous about breaking the rules and had a long Q&A session with the immigration staff. He also admitted that in reality, it is very difficult to say what is allowed and what is not. Obviously, if you have no kids and have your helper taking you to and back to the office everyday, this would be a bit obvious that you're breaking the rules. As for the live-in or out part, same with all helpers, they are supposed to be live-in but well a lot of helpers are living out...
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the php drivers in hk are here legally.. well most of them anyway.. the legal ones have a special driving permission from the IMMG and are on FDH visa.
try asking the IMMG..
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hi, everyone, my parttime helper son also can drive too? if u want to employ a driver, u can send me a msg.
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What really annoys me is that seemingly intelligent people are willing to get a driver and use them outside the scope of what is officially recognised thereby making insurance invalid. Are people really that dumb?
If a driver hits one of my family in an accident, or my car and I find out the driver is acting outside the rules of employment and insurance is not forthcoming I would drag the employers through the courts for everything they have and rightly so.
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Hi
I had a traffic accident/collision in Central with a late model Merc driven by a Philipino man. I thought it was clearrly his fault but he disagreed. I called the police, photo's were taken etc. I produced my documents, he had a HK license but no other paperwork with him. Some time later I ws summoned to police traffic dept, made a statement and detailed the damage to my vehicle, very slight to a landrover, the Merc however needed a new door, wing, headlight and more. The driver skipped the country and his employer said he was a DH and didn't kmow he was driving (to avoid prosecution himself for illegal employment) I paid for my own repairs and the other owners insurance is still disputing despite the driver being found culpable. I guess the owner has had his car repaired at his own cost as well, I have started civil action so beware!!!!
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I'm HK PR, legally employable, worked as a Driver here for the about 2 years... and now looking for Driver Job .... give me a buzzzz at 98035081 if you need a Driver.
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cowleyp - nice one, hope you take the guy down. This is so typical, people want to act outside the law and then feign responsibility once it goes wrong. I am frankly surprised that so many people on here would place themselves in such an irresponsible position. Well shows that salary is no real indicator of intelligence.
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Insurance comanies are, in my experience, always looking for loopholes to avoid making payment. A paid employee driving the car in contradiction to local immigration laws may well just such a loophole unless declared on the insurance application and policy, especially a personal domestic use policy. If this is so (and it is in this case) they will not pay. For me this was a small repaint and a new headlight surround but could easily be personal injury or worse. The employer denies giving the driver persission to drive so this makes him uninsured as most policies say "with owners permission".
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"Two separate issues: if the driver has a valid HK driving license, I don't understand how can drag the employer through the courts - It's not a violation of traffic laws to let someone (sober) with a valid license to drive your car. The only one responsible for the accident is in that case the driver."
That would normally be the case. However with an FDH driver there are immigration rules, rules that determine what can and cannot be done. Should the driver either have no permission from immigration to drive for the family or should the driver be performing duties outside the scope of that stated within the rules (say driving the employer to his place of work) then insurance in invalidated. No company would pay out and then a law has been broken, i.e. no insurance. So yes in that case you are fully within your rights to drag an employer through the courts.
Let me put it another way as it seems people don't understand the concept if it means death, injury or damage to others (the first meaning possibly millions paid out of an employers pocket).
Say you have an FDH driving without permission or again driving you to work and your shiny pride and joy gets smacked by a bus / truck, whatever and is a complete write off you will not receive a bean. No insurance company will pay. Not the bus / truck companies or your own. You will have no recourse whatsoever and may even find you are paying out to others from your own pocket should others decide to launch action. Let's face it, is it really, really worth taking the risk?
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"Therefore, it would appear there is no reason for the insurer not to pay for any damage caused"
Yes there is. The insurer will want proof that the driver was working under regulations stipulated by immigration. As they are not able to speak with the driver they have all the excuses they need not to pay! I've worked in insurance in HK, then we were able to deny claims for less!
"The driver is solely responsible for their actions while driving, and not the employer."
If the employer has his driver working outside the scope of rules laid down then he is indeed liable. As an employer, be it of an FDH or as a company / corporation, you do have responsibilities.
"The person belives it was assault, and then files a civil claim against you for the maid's action"
A ridiculous comparison - road traffic / immigration laws v's a person/person accident in the street. An assault would be immediately reported to the police. You don't need a license to walk yet........
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Have it your way dude, try it and see! Road traffic laws cannot be compared! I can quote many cases which are the complete opposite if it wasn't for data protection laws.
So try and let us all know how you get on.
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And I am mobile so checking this all by phone. The difference in the case quoted was that the hotel did not own the car. A completely different scenario to an FDH in his employers vehicle. If the FDH was driving his employers friends vehicle then your scenario would stand. That is why, as employers, we must insure our employees by law. This includes public liability. But you know that already of course!
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hi, Im one of the filipina drivers in hongkong, and yes, we still carry a DH visa with a driving addendum attached in our visa from the Transport Department and Immigration allowing us to drive in specific clauses. As a DH, we still do household choires but our main job is driving. as long as it doesnt affect your workscope and is agreed both by the employer and employee.Mostly, male drivers only do driving and carcare/maintainance but female drivers are given specific jobs other than driving.
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