I was just reading Miao Miao's thread so i thought of having a thread myself. Hope to share some experiences.
My helper doesn't want to spend money on her personal things like shampoo, conditioner, soap, food..nothing. I've read the contract that if you are giving your helper HKD300/month she should be taking care of her own food.
Ok i don't mind her eating my food but why she needs to take HKD300/month anyway? I've asked her once and she clearly told me that that HKD300 is for her weekend. When she's out with friends she wants to spend this HKD300.
And while she's got the money i give her to do home shopping she would buy herself really expensive shampoo and conditioner. To be honest i am not even using that brand and that size because i feel that's too expensive and too big for me. I was shocked that i saw it in her bathroom. I don't want to sound mean but im 100% sure that if she's using her money she would change the brand.
I've got her medical insurance. What it means is that if she pays for her doctor she can give me the receipt and i can claim the money back for her. Instead one day when i was having a meeting she jsut rang me saying "im coming to your office im ill i need money. You are giving me money now right?" At first i said ok and put the phone down and i thought about it for 5 min. I thought if i was ill i dno't go to my boss and ask her to give me money for doctor? I called her back and said "u should really use your own money to go to see the doctor and come back with receipt i will claim it back for u" and she said she has no money. I said i just paid her salary like 2 days ago. She then said her money is not with her everything has been sent back home.
And she's also giving me atitude when i was having a go and her she just hung up on me. Then after a while she said she got money from her friend. Ok far enough. Then when i got him she immed gave me the receipt and asked me the money back. I said "u have to wait to get the money back from the insurance company i can send ur receipt to him" then she said she needs the money i had to give her back first.
I really am sick and tired of being like her mum! Im her empolyer and not her parents?? I really am not enjoying this reponsibilies.
Thanks for your input.
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or you can talk to her and explain what you are providing as part of the employment contract (salary, free board and food, and perhaps also work clothes, bonuses, ferry tix, mobile etc) and what is her own responsiblity to provide (eg her own entertainment).
The $300 pm minimum food allowance is not for her entertainment on Sundays - it is payment in lieu of free food (ie where the helper doesn't get food as part of the deal). So on Sundays she can either eat/take food from home or use her own money to buy food out - you do need to provide her with food on sundays.
I think that some employees (including helpers) do have the attitude that the employer is responsible for "extras". I've seen claim forms from lawyers for such things as hiring a car on the weekend in a foreign city (so they could go sightseeing) or asking the employer to pay for a spouse to join them for the weekend. In both these cases the employer paid but there was no obligation and, in my view, it represents an unreasonable expectation by the employee.
You need to adjust and clarify with your employee what you are prepared to pay for and what is her own responsibility (eg if she wants to buy expensive shampoo she needs to pay for it - otherwise she uses the same brand as the rest of the household).
Of course the best time to do this at the start of the contract - it is hard to tighten up later without causing resentment (but not impossible).
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ok first of all... would you be able to buy food to last 4 wks on $300 - no, I dont think so. In my book, giving food allowance of $300 is an absolute joke, why bother in this case at all. I give mine $1,000 and she can use our rice, condiments, bread, milk, coffee, tea etc etc... And even than i think $1,000 is not that much.
You can start giving her decent allowance and then, maybe, you have a reason to say - dont use my food.
As for the health bills - we will ALWAYS pay for our helper ourselves and then claim it back. Sometimes it is $300-400 - do you really think they can afford to pay this and then wait for months to get it back? Get real.
Lastly - on the shampoo - yes, she should buy her own with her own money - unless you previously agreed to provide her with shampoo, soap etc... I would have a talk about it with her. Ours only use the toilet paper that we buy - the rest they buy themselves...
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or give her a handbook of sorts that would cover how you would like run things and how things are run like procedures for claiming doctor fees. she could always refer to it. also include what items /expenses you are responsible for and what she is responsible for.
for shopping, if you let her shop for you - ensure that she follows the list (brand name and sizes included) and explain that you will not shoulder items not on the list.
300 is a bit small to cover all food expenses for the month however if you do increase it, there's also no way to know if she would just stash it away and use your food in the ref anyways. even you say don't use my food, would you be able to monitor it?
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cd
16 yrs ago
Re the food allowance, she legally only receives the food allowance if her food is not provided by you. We pay our helper $500 food allowance, he buys all his own stuff. Re the above comment about it not being enough, somebody on a similar thread a few months or so ago actually did an experiment on trying to live on the small food allowance the DH's get, and found it quite possible to have 2 cooked meals a day on it. It was very interesting reading.
She should be buying her own personal items i.e. shampoo, toiletries etc. You are not obliged to pay for anything other than whats stated on the contract.
Re the doctors, I think you should pay up front but make sure you get the receipt.
Her attitude sucks, I think you should sit down have a talk with her, give her a warning about her attitude and behaviour. Then give her notice if things don't improve. There are many good helpers out there.
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maybe somewhat off topic -- but i was curious about the medical obligations of employers. from my reading of the labor dept's guidance, an employer is responsible for 100% of a helper's medical expenses. so anything not fully covered by insurance (co-pay, deductions, above maximum, etc.) should be paid by the employer. the labor guidance said this is per the employement ordinance. i was just wondering why then other employers (say mine) usually only take out group medical insurance for employees and are not obligated for uncovered expenses? is it a special protection for FDHs? i have no problem with it, just curious. could someone pls explain?
re the OP's issues, i think as others have said you may want to clarify with your helper who should pay what and stick to those rules. we tried to make things clear with our helper at the beginning and for the large part it has worked out well, though there are always things you cannot cover (or you would think is clearly one side's responsibility and did not bother to mention) that may raise some issue later, like my helper's clothing problem.
finally, for things that cost a few hundred bucks, like medical bills, i know it's a lot of money for the helper and wouldn't mind advancing those myself. in fact my helper has been "advancing" her salary several times when she needed to buy something relatively big but did not leave enough money with her, or, once, when she said she had a family emergency and needed to send more money back before pay day. we have always agreed. but i won't say those employers who, for whatever concerns, do not like to provide these are simply mean or bad. different people have different situation, financially, personally, etc, and reasonable minds can differ.
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She also asked for a loan before her holiday. She asked for 5000 HKD but i refused giving her. I just don't understand why on earth they think we are their ATM? Why their money is so important and ours is not? I just don't like to have a go at her this also makes me upset.
And about cleaning. Whenever i see somewhere really dirty she would go "oh already? I just cleaned it 2 days ago" But i promised you that looks like she never even touched it. And whenever i do say somthing she doesn't like "for eg i say when u show me a list of things to buy, write down the brand" She would then give me a face like "Oh AGAIN".
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neversaynever, it does sound like you have far more issues with your helper than just her buying shampoo... maybe you should look for another one, there are plenty lovely, honest, hard working DHs out there.
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Tell your helper when she goes out on Sunday for the day off that on Monday at 10am you would like to have a "meeting" with her. Ask her to jot down any queries, questions, feedback she would like to discuss. In the meantime, write down your concerns, feedback etc.
On Monday at 10am, ask her to come to the kitchen table, sit down with your notes and be professional, concise and to the point on any issues you feel need addressing. Do not get emotional, treat it like a business meeting and nothing more. She is your employee. Tell her she cannot buy expensive brands of shampoo, if she wants to buy "luxury" items, she must do so out of her own money.
Sort out what you want to do about the food. If you only want her to have the $300, then be clear about it. If she chooses to blow it on one day out with friends, then that is her choice. Be clear what food she can eat from your place, the staples, tea/coffee, milk, rice, etc.
Regardless if people say you are a tightarse or not with the food allowance, it's your choice but stick with the decision you make.
As for the household chores, write up a timetable for the 6 days and what chores need to be done on what day. Present her with it in a folder and ask her to follow the guidelines. Also tell her it may be updated or changed from time to time.
Then give her the opportunity to raise any concerns she may have with you, the household, etc. Do not get emotional if she brings anything up that may be petty or nasty. Tell her you will take on board her concerns and discuss it with your husband. At the end of the meeting, simply say to her that these are the rules and regulations of the household and she is your employee and if she has any issues, then perhaps it won't work. Tell her you don't appreciate the attitude, she was employed to take care of the household and you expect her to do the job you have asked her to do.
As for the loan, absolutely agree 100%, don't lend her anything. One of the first points in my guidelines I gave to my helper was do not ask for a loan as I do not wish to offend you by saying no.
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Thanks.
Neenib - I and my fiancee has serval meetings with her already. There was a story to tell then. When we hired her she's just finished her 2 yrs contract and she didn't need to go back to her home country before continue with a new contract. So we thought fine that's great. She's told us that she had to exit the country for her new visa during Nov,08. We said no problem.
And in Oct she said she has to leave in Nov and she is planning to go for 1 month back home for a holiday. I was like "1 month?! you only work for us less than half a yr. I can hardly handle this on my way for 2 wks (i've got a dog as well)". She took it as "ok my empolyer is giving me 2 wks then". After that she booked a ticket for herself for 2 wk holiday. She said she has to go home as she hasn't seen her mum for 3 yrs etc etc.
And she already assumed that i have to pay one way of her ticket. I was wondering why i had to so we called up a meeting. She said that because i didn't pay her to come to HK (as she was already in HK) so we owed her that. We had to pay. I said i had to talk to some people to find that out then she started burst out crying. We were shocked what's going on? We had to finish the meeting and go to work and she was just hiding in her room for half an hour didn't want to come out.
Finally we let her go and i paid one way. It's so expensive it costs me like HKD5000 because she's from Sri Lanka.
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I can see where you are both coming from. Your helper is trying to pocket as much as she can out of her gross income (which I understand) and she's taking advantage of the inches you allow her. However I don't think HK$300 is enough to expect your helper to eat and buy toiletries. I know for a fact I'd spend more than that on toiletries alone. That said, you helper saying that her 300 bucks is for her to enjoy at the weekend is not your problem. Her days off as her business alone and her cost, not yours. That would seriously irk me.
Here's what I would do. Sometimes it is worth forking out a bit more just to put her in her place. I love my old Singaporean bosses phrase that he used to use - we give staff one thing with our right hand and take something back with our left. Agree to buy her a huge bag of rice every month. Agree that she can use all the condiments,oils etc. Buy her basic necessities e.g. cleaner for her room and toilet rolls, box of tissues etc. Then give her an agreed amount e.g. HK$500 - 750 a month as a "toiletries and food allowance" noted on her salary receipt. Tell her that ALL her other expenses are to come out of that. Tell her that you are not happy with the arrangement and that you want to pay her a lump sum for her to manage her own expenses. Tell her that with the global economic recession everyone has to tighten their belts and that you do not buy X shampoo and Y toiletries, in fact you need to cut back and save money because who know if we are all going to have jobs in 6 months, blah blah and that if you yourself are not buying X and Y, you are not buying it for her either. So there yo go, here's your 500 bucks, knock yourself out. She can save it or spend it - she can buy Park N Shops own label shampoo and conditioner and it's no longer your problem. She's an adult, make her be responsible like one.
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People here assume that give her that HKD300 and ask her to buy her own food. NO! Im paying for her food already (on top of that toliet paper and saop of coz)
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Neversaynever ~ From your first post I'd already assumed that you were supplying her with food at home, in which case you are not legally obliged to pay her a monthy food allowance. So, if you are also giving her $300 each month on top of supplying her with food, you are being generous. You have no obligation to pay for her 'entertainment' on her day off each week, that is up to her. If you provide her with food at home, she can always prepare and take food out with her on Sunday (as many helpers do), but if she chooses to not to take food from home and prefers to buy it that is up to her ... you are still providing her with food, but she chooses not to take it. You could however offer a small amount to buy food for that day if you wish, but I don't think you are legally obliged to if you are supplying her with food from home, it is just a nice gesture if you do.
As far as I am aware you are not obliged to foot the bill for her toiletries, it is up to her to buy them from her own salary. Many employers, however, do supply these as it can be quite costly, expecially on a domestic helper's salary. However, if you do buy these items for her, you buy the ones that you want to buy and not the expensive brands that you say she insists upon!
Medical expenses I would pay for her in advance (obviously she would have to get a receipt) and then claim the money back from the insurance company for yourself. Medical bills can be expensive and on a DH's salary I don't think it would be fair to expect her to foot the bills herself.
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urgh - i'm having problems with my maid too. i'm just going to suck it up for another 3 months and then not renew her contract. sounds like yours has an attitude problem. if deep down in your heart you think that she'll never come good, i would just terminate her early and get a new one. it's not worth the headache of having someone you don't like living in your house....
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I reckon she took you for a ride with the flight home. Sounds a bit dodgy to me. I agree with Sashimi Girl, maybe it's time to find another helper. The only problem there is what if you get another difficult one? You need to go through the same crap again.
Perhaps lay the cards on the table. This is the way it is, do what you want with your wages, I would cancel the $300 per month because if she is eating your food then there is no need to provide her with extra. Tell her that she is to buy supermarket brand toiletries only (if you going to pay for them). If she arks up and has a whinge, give her a first warning.
She doesn't make the rules, you do. Good luck.
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If i behaved with my boss the way your filipino helper is with you, i'm sure i'd be fired in no time.
sashimi girl: "it's not worth the headache of having someone you don't like living in your house...." Agree totally. home is home, where i come back to relax and unwind, not try to think petty like someone who's supposed to me working for me and make life easier for me. If she has an attitude problem, talking won't work.
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what is it with the DHs and bleach!!! mine lovely brown bathrobe has got these nasty green patches all over it! we BANNED bleach in our house - i think they still sneak it in!
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FKKC
16 yrs ago
I think they used too much detergent.
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$800 brought us on month of comprehensive medical insurance through our agency. This gave a certain number of free doctor visits (they used one of the doctors on caine rd) - I gave the medical card to the helper and they would use it at the doctor. It also covered dentistry and all of the insurance stuff you are required to have unde the law. We paid the most (premium coverage) - and I think it is an excellent deal. We have never had a doctors/dentist bill presented to us.
It is a helper only insurance, so it's payouts/benefits are pretty limited to what you are required under the law to pay for.
We did not have to claim for anything major, but all the small stuff was covered.
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Re. the food allowance, the new minimum is $500 per month, so it's only helpers on an 'old' contract who could get $300 pm.
When I first gave the $500 to my helper, she had no idea what to buy or how to make that money last for a month. I ended up going around Wellcome with her and basically working it all out for her. I can share with you what I have learned about how to eat on $500 per month: -
1. this money will pay for 3 healthy meals a day, but is not enough for snacks, luxuries, eating out & assumes the DH will spend her money carefully and not waste any of the food or money
2. for breakfast she could afford choices like - porridge (using powdered milk, not fresh) or a sweet bread/cake + banana/orange/apple
3. for lunch & dinner she could afford meals like rice + meat/fish/tofu/egg + veggies. To get by on $500 per month, she would not be able to afford to be too choosy.
* We also allow our helper to share our rice, cooking oil & condiments, so I pointed out to her that it will be cheaper for her to eat things that go with rice. Because if for example she plans to have a sandwich she pays for her own bread and butter, but if she has rice + meat + veg then she gets the rice & cooking oil 'free' from us and only needs to pay for the meat + veg.
For veggies, choices like pumpkin, squash, corn-on-the-cob, snow peas, potatoes, broccoli, carrots are really cheap. The price of choi sum has gone up a lot but there are other leafy green veg which are cheaper. Obviously eggs & tofu are cheaper alternatives to meat/fish.
So my conclusion is that it can be done on $500 pm but the helper cannot be picky and stay within budget. She would have to eat what she can afford and not just her favourites.
Re. the shampoo and other toiletries, there is no mention in the contract of employers providing these. It's totally up to her to pay. Of course generous employers may choose to provide extra benefits, extra food / food money, toiletries, work clothes etc but IMHO it's better to start off 'strict' and introduce the extras after a few months if the DH is doing well - that's my plan anyway.
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