Posted by
Chia Pet
16 yrs ago
We've had problems with our helper coming home late on Sunday nights on several occasions (past midnight). I told her that she needs to come home by 11pm but If she needs to come home later than that, just let us know in advance. Even after we've set this rule, she came home late one night once. The next morning, I reminded her, she said she forgot but will not happen again.
So tonight, at 10:30pm when she still hasn't come home. I send her sms to remind her. She replied to tell me she's waiting for the bus. 5 minutes later, she sent another sms to tell me she'll take the cab. Came home at 11pm, visibly angry, said hello to me very briefly but I can tell she was crying. She went into the kitchen and her room, both times slamming the doors and also making very loud noises in the kitchen.
I am angry and upset that she has no regard for the house rule and when reminded of it, she's giving me an attitude at my house! We get along well with her in general and she's performed well. I stopped myself from going to talk to her tonight because I'm afraid it'll just turn into an angry fight.
Is 11pm too early for a curfew? What should I do to make her follow the house rule? I will have another talk with her tomorrow, but if it doesn't go well, should I let her go?
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what happened to all the previous answers to this thread?
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Seems to be a general problem with the forums this morning.
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Ed
16 yrs ago
I went online at 7am thinking I was in a time warp and that yesterday didn't actually happen - then looked at the calendar and confirmed yes it is indeed Tuesday.
So I checked with our guys who run the web making machinery and have been told that we had a problem overnight which required us to go to our backup recovery - sadly, yesterday's posts have been lost... humblest apologies.
Let's pretend yesterday didn't happen and carry on as if so....
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Well, it was Monday so no big loss. ;)
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Ed
16 yrs ago
Well... we had the complete forum reorganization done with all sorts of cool stuff - and that was lost.... so its back to the drawing board tonight. Tomorrow morning our masterpiece should be ready to tantalize everyone
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Anywaaaaaaaay, my points regarding opening post were, more or less:
- Curfews should not be needed unless helper wakes everyone up when getting home, and even then some other solution should be found. She could, say, learn to be more quiet.
- Helper is an adult and should be trusted to handle getting up in the morning and working. If she cannot, the issue needs to be addressed, but a curfew seems like a very blunt instrument to solve issues of irresponsibility.
- Give the helper a key so she can let herself in whenever she wants.
- Outside working hours, I don't care whether our helper is home or not. She's a big girl.
- My employers have never cared when I got home at night or what I did outside of work, so long as it didn't impact my performance a work or the image of the company. The same principles should be applied to helpers.
- It's "your house and your rules", but if you impose a curfew like for a child, you are treating your helper like a child. I'd rather treat her like an adult and in return expect her to use "adult" initiative and responsibility while working. If you treat your helper like a child she may start acting like one.
- It's not a problem to explain to children why they have a curfew and the helper does not. If you can't explain that, I'd say you have bigger problems with your children that are encompassed by the scope of this thread.
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As for curfews, I think what works for my house might not work for yours. Everyone has different views about how they manage their helper. I would be fine with it as long as she's up and cheerful on Monday morning, ready to work.
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Hi all!
I had previously replied and said the problem was solved. Unfortunately the post disappeared so here we go again...
I spoke to her the next morning and it turns out that she was having personal issues - hence slamming the door. She apologized and apology accepted. I don't appreciate the slamming and the attitude, but she seemed really distraught so I just left it at that.
Actually the title of the thread is about sunday night curfew but I was mainly upset about her attitude.
Cara and Travellwell72, you both have very valid points - just very different take on things. No rights or wrongs, but just different household management. Just so you know, not only does our helper have a curfew on sunday night, both my husband and I have a curfew for "school nights" (weekdays). I have no problem following it, but it's really for my husband whose poker nights tend to go on just a little too long. :-)
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If the helper has a good attitude towards things, a curfew isn't needed. If the helper cannot respect "quiet hours" and is too tired to work, a curfew will not solve her attitude problems and she's not a good employee anyway. If you can't trust your helper to handle simple things like being ready to work and not waking you up, you don't want that helper.
Travelwell72, what's with the insulting remarks? cara and I don't agree with you but we accept that you have a different opinion. We think you are wrong, but we don't resort to name calling. Wouldn't it be more constructive to keep the discussion mature and avoid the insults?
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Curfews are for kids, if you impose a curfew it's about control of another person, an adult does not require a curfew, if they are responsible enough to look after your kids they are responsible enough to get themselves home and up on time for work.
I believe curfews are just a way to dictate what the helper does and has no merit, as axptguy 38 said if your helper can't do this simple thing then she isn't up to looking after kids and your home.
I have worked as a live in Nanny in my younger days so know what this is like and i resented any attempt to tell me what to do in my private time/life.
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It occurred to me that I have lived in the employer's building, when I worked in a hotel one summer. My boss didn't care when I got home or what I did as long as I was at work and fit for work on time.
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i could wade into this now, but......i'm gonna bite my lip this time lol
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(Troll alert) Thank god you wouldn't have one short time you saved some lucky person a very bad experience.
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"so if someone lives in your flat and is an employee then they should abide by your rules and standards. if you set a curfew then it is to be adhered too. most of these domestics get it to easy, food, free accommodation, to much pay compared to even locals etc etc. blame the gov. too. personally i'll never have one unless i have a baby, and that i don't want! plus i'd only have a part time as i could not ever have someone (stranger) living under my roof. i'm not sharing a flat like a 18yr old. silly society here with their helpers (mostly lazy people who have them and a status symble). pathetic! so with the slamming doors etc get rid of her. prolly been in wanchai anyway."
TROLL! Seriously, if I were a helper I wouldn't want to work with you.
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If you are so against helpers short time, then why on earth are you on this thread? Go away, you are not welcome here.
When we interviewed for a helper, I said that I would appreciate if they could be home at around 10-10.30pm if possible. We have a small apartment and I am the world's lightest sleeper. Add that to having a newborn, then I am useless. Our helper said she had no problem with that. Certainly at times she has come back a bit later, but has always let me know.
Our helper also leaves on a Saturday afternoon, so she certainly has a large block of time off anyway. As I mentioned in my post that was with the deleted ones, curfew is a pretty harsh word when it comes to adults. I think it comes down to respect for each other and common courtesy.
As for the attitude though, if my helper walked into my house and started slamming doors, then i would march right in there and rip shreds off her. I don't tolerate hissy fits from my child (I'm the one who has the right to hissy fits!) and I certainly wouldn't tolerate it from my helper. I don't care what personal issues she may have, it's just not on.
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i remember one of the missing posts had a good point that curfew tends to work well only with those who are inclined to come back early anyway and those who are otherwise will resent a curfew. that's actually true about most rules in this world. if everybody is honest, responsible, considerate, etc. etc. then there is very little need for rules since everything is self-regulated. it's really those who tend to break the rules that the rules are intended to curb but they surely will not like the rules.
when we hired our helper we asked her to come back by 10pm on sundays (small apartment, pregnant woman and later newborn baby), but we never had to enforce it since she's always back much earlier. there are also other houserules on the paper we gave her that we never had an issue with so we almost forgot we had them.
so for those who think you need a curfew for a quiet sleep, for household security, etc., you are probably better off letting your helper know about the rule before you hire her and ideally find someone whose lifestyle fits yours. kind of like what you'll do when you are looking for a roommate.
for those of you who disagree with a curfew, it's great that you have trustworthy and responsible helpers and have been able to manage your house and helper smoothly without such a restriction. and you all have valid points about how helpers should be treated like adults and given trust. as long as you don't sound like saying those who do have curfews are mean employers or funny people in the way they run their house, your points are taken and maybe followed by other people. i've always taken the view on various issues that reasonable minds can differ and there is often a range when it comes to how things should be done as long as all legal obligations are fulfilled and decency and respect are shown. after all it's other people's household whose situation we know very little about so better not to pass judgment.
as to the point that if people trust helpers with their house and kids then why don't trust them with XYZ -- that's a valid point, too, though it's not a universal logic that can explain everything. again, trust is important, but rules are also needed. i remember seeing a thread on this forum discussing whether people keep a safe when they have a helper. some do and some don't, both of which i think is fine. i personally don't keep one because, yes, i entrust my most precious baby to my helper and whatelse am i afraid of being stolen (plus i don't have much at home anyway). but i also acknowledge the point some people made that it's better not to create temptation if you have a lot of cash, jewelry, etc. at home. another example -- in my company the professionals are entrusted with the client's top secret information, so they are presumably very trustworthy and responsible. but we still have those mundane office rule such as that you are not allowed to take office supplies home and you actually have to ask the staff in the supplies room if you need something. maybe kind of stingy but nothing wrong. so in summary trusting your helper with your house and kids is pretty much a given thing when you hire a helper, but you don't have to trust without any reservation. if you feel strongly about certain things, you sure can retain more control over those since the employers themselves are the ones ultimately responsible for anything that happens in the house. plus some people are just more hands on than others. (i'm used to doing a final check of the door and the gas every night before sleep, not that i don't trust my helper but i feel it's my house and i'm responsible for making sure it's ok).
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FKKC
16 yrs ago
Very well said miao miao. Every households have different needs therefore during interviews, put your preferences (decent, fair, reasonable and legal) on the table and the helper could do the same and if both employer and employee agree to the terms, there shouldn't be any argument, especially harsh criticism from outsiders.
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I agree, well said miao miao, i guess the key issue is working this stuff out if you have strong feelings about certain things before you hire someone so they fit in with you.
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FKKC
16 yrs ago
optimistic - glad you see the whole picture clearer and changed your earlier harsh opinion to 'i guess the key issue is working this stuff out if you have strong feelings about certain things before you hire someone so they fit in with you'. Much better advice for the O.P and even easier reading for us to follow.
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well said miao miao, i too have a similar arrangement with our helper.
it's a "curfew" if you want to call it that, but an informal rule that we asked our helper to come back by a certain time.
Like you said "employers themselves are the ones ultimately responsible for anything that happens in the house"
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"Who are you to tell people whether it is or isn't necessary for a curfew ??"
I'm just a regular guy. It is my opinion that a curfew should not be necessary and that it is insulting to the helper. Whether any particular person listens to my advice about curfews is up to that person.
"So i think you're wrong , but i too accept that you may have different opinions ...."
Sure, but then you resort to name calling and insults. I think you are wrong, but I don't call you an idiot or ignorant. That would be uncouth.
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does anyone know whether it's standard for sundays off or other days are okay?
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cd
16 yrs ago
To Alumni
Yes sundays is the standard day off, but its not law that it has to be. Occassionally we have to ask our helper to work on a sunday, so we try and give him the next sat off so he gets a long weekend.
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Ed
16 yrs ago
Insulting others on the forums will result in a ban... please resist...
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I take it you have the day off school Troll maybe go see if there's anyone age appropriate for you to play with and leave the grown ups to do grown up stuff. Tat ta
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You can agree on another day as the regular "day off", but you should do this before signing. Most helpers want Sunday explicitly.
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How come the edit button no longer works Ed?
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You may be logged out. This used to be a problem.
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I thought you couldn't reply to posts unless you where logged in?
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as for days off - we have two helpers and one has sat off and the other sunday - the one who has sat off actually prefers it - she says it is far too crowded everywhere with helpers on sundays. as long as the agreement is mutual you can give her whatever day off that works best for you...
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FKKC
16 yrs ago
A friend of mine also has 2 helpers and the senior one prefers to take saturdays for her weekly holidays and gives sundays to the other junior one. Works well and my friend is happy she has someone to cook her meals on all sundays.
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Lots of helpers go to church so like Sundays off so they can attend and of course if all there friends are off that day they may feel isolated if they have a different day off however i see groups of helpers on other days too so i guess it's just a case of talking to your helper or negotiating a different day before you hire.
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