Posted by
Ed
16 yrs ago
Most of the 600+ helpers who place an ad with us get a job very quickly... not only do thousands of our members use the site to hire directly - most of the maid agencies use our site to find candidates for those who choose to engage an agency
http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/helpers/
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lace
16 yrs ago
If I were in your shoes I would not give her a good reference letter - I would not want someone else to employ her and then have the same problems you had.
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if your helper could not respect you enough to work for you honestly and diligently, then she shouldn't deserve a good reference from you! if you had done the same in your job, you would probably have been fired before now and you would'nt drea of beahing like she has done!
personally, I could not lie about my helpers performance and I would feel so guilty if i did and her new employers suffered as a result of it. don't forget, they are about to have a baby, which will be the most precious thing in the world to them. could you forgive yourself if something happened to the baby due to the helper's negligence and attitude.
so give her a reference by all means - but tell the truth!
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Chellechelle,
If the DH is as bad as you state and you do not want to stop her from gaining further employment, I agree with greenValleys, give her a statement of employment, but not a reference letter.
You will need to give some contact details, you could set up a free e-mail account for new employers to contact you for information, this will eliminate any clutter in your personal / family e-mail inbox. All enquiries about employment for this DH can be sent to this account and you can reply freely.
Be truthfull, for a family to employ this DH and are about to have a newborn child, they will rely on the DH a lot. If she is not trustworthy, honest and or hardworking, then the stress levels will rise and no doubt put the family in difficulties.
Emphasise good points and point out your opinions with regard to the DH's weak points (finances etc) and make recommendations as you see fit, after all, you have already experienced the DH service capabilities.
We experienced similar incidences to you, items of clothes went missing, food supplies that should last a week suddenly ran out in a couple of days - we found out later, that her sister was coming around the house and helping herself !
What did it for us, after numerous sit downs and clear the air talks, was when the school rang up for our daughter and asked why fees for extra curricular activities and bus fares had not been paid ! (amongst others !)
After dismissal, the DH's new employer contacted us and asked what we thought, we gave our opinion (strengths / weaknesses) and talked about our experience. The new employers thanked us for our candour and straight talking.
The DH contacted us and asked what we told the new employer, again, we told her what we told the employer.
Everybody makes mistakes, every person deserves a second chance, however theft and deception are not mistakes !
Long winded I know, however it still rankles me to this day ! Would you want a family who have a newborn in the house to go through, what you went through ????? I think not !
Tell it how it is !
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4G
16 yrs ago
we did same thing ,gave no reference letter ,bec she broke the contract ,and told future employers the truth ,then it is upto them to do what they like
otherwise the whole purpose of talking to an employer gets defeated......
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I feel for you chelle chelle. A friend of mine was in a similar situation & to get her helper from hassling her for a ref letter, she told the helper that she would not give anything in writing, but that she would take reference calls from potential employers. She would then tell the potential employers that she will only answer yes & no questions. She felt she wouldn't be responsible for anyone's hiring decision & that it was upto the potential employers to ask meaningful questions. I don't necessarily agree with her approach and I think it requires a strong personality to conduct the reference call. Just thought I share her story with you.
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I have interviewed a lot of maids with false references i.e. employers who gave great written refs to get rid of their maid and then admitted lots of problems with them on the phone when called and put on the spot.
I would write her a reference but stick to the facts. No lies, no exaggerations. I could never oversell a bad maid.
Do something like this.
To Whom It May Concern
This is the confirm that XXXXXX worked for me from XXXX to XXXXX. During this time she was responsible for the marketing, general housekeeping and looking after my 2 children (aged X and Y) whilst I worked full time. She looked after the children well and was patient with them.
XXXXX will come to the end of her 2-year contract with us and we wish her all the best in her future employment.
Regards
XXXXXX
__________________
Unless someone has half a brain cell they would read between the lines here that you are not renewing a contract and you are not committing yourself to say why. You haven't commented on how well she did her job and whether or not she was honest. However you have done your bit by writing her a reference. I've done this with a maid I fired a while ago and someone still went on to hire her. Not a thorough employer if you ask me.
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xx07
16 yrs ago
I think u should give a statement of employment letter for her with her responsibilities and leave ur name and no. in it for any further queries .. then u can give honest answers to whatever questions asked to u with limited details .. if the questions are only related to her work quality so be it, if some asks about loans then its only fair they know the truth ..
Honestly its quite easy for the helpers to find a job asap through their own network of helper friends and their recommendations and they can easily lie about their reasons of termination and sometimes get jobs without any reference checks ...
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I am expecting and looking for a helper now. I would hate to receive a untruthful reference and end up having a lot of problems with new helper. I would also not hire someone who does not have reference. It means there might be a problem, it is better not to take the risk. It is very important for all of us to have a helper who can do a good job taking care of kids/ babies and have worry-free when we are at work. If the helper is not a good person, she should not take jobs that involve kids. I would suggest that you tell truth in the reference letter or just write a general one that states the dates she work with you without any details. It will be obvious that there is no porsitive commends you would like to give her. However, if I am abou to hire someone who is like your helper, I would really like to be told all the truth by her current employer... Having a helper who is not siutable for my family could cause a lot of probelms, furstration and troubles.
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Personally I would prefer to give a verbal reference for a less-than-satisfactory DH than a written one. (Maybe I only have half a brain cell but to me, Angsana's sample letter did not automatically imply she was a bad helper. For instance, if the employer was Chinese with limited English skills, she may choose to write/copy such a letter for the sake of convenience.)
One question: what if someone came to you for a reference and you were largely satisfied with her work (and wish her well) but there were some problem areas during her period of employment with you. Would you give the whole story or not? Our prev helper went to Canada and her prospective employer called me for a reference. I gave her a very good one (she was ultimately hired) but wasn't sure whether I should have mentioned that she talked/SMS A LOT on the mobile phone. (Also very chatty with the neighbour's helper - I didn't mind much but she got that helper in trouble quite a bit!) I do like her and in the end, I didn't mention this problem - b/c I figured it wasn't something "definitively bad" or something that would directly impact on her abilities in taking care of a newborn" (which was what the new employer needed). However, not sure if I was right in my approach.
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I agreed with Housed, just be careful with the reference letter and make sure you cross check with phone.....I would prefered to hire thru agency as anything goes wrong, at least I can get a replacement for free. As for direct hire, I think it's abit risky as you don't know whether the reference letter is truthful or not, having not knowing this person who is going to live in your house for 2 years, I'd cross check with phone call/ email.
Bad experience for me for direct hired DH......3 maids in 2 years, DH no. 1 who left my 7 month-old boy on sofa and he fell on the floor, end up in hospital; DH no.2 Her sister injured from a car accident back in Philipine and need 1 month salary in advance to go back for her, same old story, never showed up again; DH no.3 ran away one nite, with my suitcase, left me 2 telephone bills for numbers of overseas bill, 3 months later, she filed a claim for unfair dismissal, a month salary in lieu plus plane ticket.
Now I quit hiring overseas DH and turn for local part-time which introduce by the local gov't. It's good and hassle free.
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I would like to share a bit of my own experience. My DH is a direct hire and had good references from her previous employer of 3 years. I even spoke to her on the phone and explained that I was pregnant with my first baby and have never hired a fulltime helper before. Her previous employer claimed that this DH took care of her baby girl from 2 months old up till she was 3 and she was currently expecting her second baby. I asked her her reason for terminating the helper's contract midway and her explanation was that her mother-in-law had moved in with them and could not communicate with the helper in English and the helper didn't speak any Cantonese. With that, we went ahead and did the paperwork ourselves. In less than three months of working for us, she pretended that she didn't know how to cook well (she used my stuff in the kitchen to cook her food for her off days on Sundays, without asking for permission and cooked her own food really well), she's on the phone every nite till wee hours in the morning and therefore, she takes long naps in the afternoons while we are at work. There have been many occasions where I came home and found my baby unattended in her cot in the living room while the helper is sleeping in her room. My baby already knows how to turn over and is now trying to sit up on her own. Considering that she is in her room by 9:30 pm and she wakes up at 7 am, I would say that we are giving her plenty of rest. In fact, she has more rest than me. So I end up having to cook dinner, do the laundry and grocery shopping (she's dishonest with money) and take care of my baby after a hard day's work. She also hides her phone everywhere in the apartment on the pretext of doing household chores but she's really sending text messages. Things are left lying around the apartment and she doesn't even bother to tidy up. It has been so stressful that it has affected my breast milk volume. We have hired a new helper through an agency this time but we are waiting for her visa to come through. As such, we have to tolerate all the nonsense by this helper and have to make sure that she doesn't even suspect that we are going to fire her. Just in case she takes it out on our baby. We would have been grateful to her previous employer if she had told us the truth, instead of giving her a good written reference letter and saying all the good things about her on the phone (I had called the previous employer on a Sunday, knowing that the DH was having her day off, so that she would be free to speak to me).
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Let me summarise life of DH working for expats -
- unlimited free food
- access to a latest wardrobe
- gossip with neighbours
- chitchat/sms on phones
- afternoon naps,
- salary advances
- free trips / holidays
- loan sharks
As long as they
- come up with well planned & well executed "stories" . esp those that make you feel sorry about their situations, e.g. their parents or sibilings are sick back home
- pretend they care about you & your kids
- in case she gossip about you to other helpers
- she knows that you got to go to work & cant do without them looking after your kids
Especially sorry to hear about The Missus and City Jammer's case. I think the expats are being extremely lenient & thats why DH always pick to work for expats so that they can take full advantages of all the free foods, free holidays, free clothes etc. They dont have to work & they are eating all your food, they have a better life than you!
If expats don't start to give accurate, truthful references to fellow families from NOW, the vicious circles won't stop. If expats continue to suffer despite paying them but not getting helped, the DH will continue to take advantages of genuine nice expats families.
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may add to the list that helpers receive specially from very generous employers
- free fone, free dvd and tv, free computer
- bday gifts, cny laisee, xmas gift, no occassion gifts
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However, even if you're a very good employer but you commit a "sin" against the helper, all the good acts will be forgotten and only the "transgression" will be remembered! Who among us doesn't have "bad" days?
Having said that, I'm sure that many expats have found good lifelong friends out of their maids.
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City Jammer - I really feel for you as 2 of the helpers I've hired in the past 6 years had very good references and turned out awful. Some employers really don't get how much trouble they cause for others by providing good refs for bad helpers. And even worse, some just don't care.
TheMissus -
"Now I quit hiring overseas DH and turn for local part-time which introduce by the local gov't. It's good and hassle free. "
I'm glad you've found a solution that works for you! Unfortunately it's not so easy for those of us who cannot speak Cantonese ... In almost all cases, non-Chinese speakers who need some help have to hire a full-time live-in FDH, no matter whether it suits them or not.
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Beadcurd - Are you a DH ? your stories exist of course. If you read stories from all threads properly, they seems reasonable families but stuck with bad helpers and still nice enough to keep them. They're not here to get judged whether they are generous enough to get ripped off.
The original thread for this forum is about how employers should handle giving out references to poor performing DH, i.e. expats employers are here to share their stories of recent experiences and trying to support each other.
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If employers are not comfortable about telling the truth about their helpers, they could at least say something like, "I can't tell you too much in case my helper retaliates. All I can say is that if she was a good helper, I would not have terminated her contract/I would not have had to get a new helper."
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Quite true, beancurd!
ywgchan's description of a DH life makes you wonder why only people from countries with a poor economy work as DH.
Maybe former bankers should apply? they probably never knew a dh life could be quite as heavenly...
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Please tell the truth- other employers deserve it, and you would too if it were a previous reference that was the decider on whether to have a stranger come live in your household.
I had exactly the same issues as the OP, only i decided not to lie. My helper begged and begged me to 'support' her, after coming in drunk ( to care for a toddler), lying and causing a hellish time with debt agencies and threats. I decided not to renew after 2 years. I now feel an idiot for having it last so long.
Two expat families contacted me in the end, and both asked why i was not renewing. Without nastiness, I told them. She didn't get either position.
They both thanked me for being so upfrint and allowing them to avoid the same trouble as me! ( lucky them)
Following this, I had abusive phone calls, messages, visits, people knocking on my door, other helpers whispering, and my new helper telling me she felt uncomfortable working for me because of all the gossip.
A year later, its all gone, the ex- found another job, hopefully with a family with no kids ( the drink was a huge problem), and my new helper has settled in and told the gossips to mind thier own.
I had no reference call from the poor soul who eventually employed my ex helper, no doubt she says I beat her or she couldn;t work with me anymore....who cares.
Bottom line- this person lives in your house, anyone who doesn;t follow up with the previous employer is a fool, and anyone not willing to tell the truth about why they can;t live with that woman anymore is selfish and irresponsible.
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