Posted by
blessed
15 yrs ago
I was very disappointed to find the maid whom we've trusted all along is lying to us. It was something very trivial, and I have evidence to prove she's lying. I even worded my speech so that she could say 'oh yes, I forgot, it was actually....' but she didn't even try to get herself out of it. The point here is not what the lie was about. It's about the fact that I'm living with someone who is lying and lying about something very trivial. I did suspect a little the past but gave her the benefit of the doubt to avoid any 'confrontation' plus I didn't have evidence.
She's been with us for over a year now, been in HK for 5yrs, over 40 and looks after my 18mth old when I'm not available (I'm a SAHM). Contract ends mid-next year and wanted to continue another one for her but now I'm seriously having second thoughts. Has anyone else had the same experience?
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I did have a very similar experience with my previous helper, she had been with us for 18 months and let us down pretty badly with her lies. My opinion (and it is just my opinion!!) is that anyone who lives in your house has access to your life and most importantly your children has to be unimpeachably trustworthy. I can take petty annoyances (doesn't do task as you would wish, forgets things, breaks the odd item etc) and in fact they should be expected but once that person has lied to you no matter about what that vital trust is gone and the only option for me would be to send her packing with a months pay in lieu. If she can lie to your face about trivial matters what happens if something more serious happens can you rely on her to be scrupulously honest about it? I think not!!! The other upside is that as a SAHM (like myself) yes it is a hassle to find a new helper but it is easier to fire her than if you relied on her to provide essential childcare while you work. On a positive note my new helper who has now been with us for close to a year is streets ahead of my old one in many ways so this may well be a blessing in disguise!!!
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If you can't trust someone with something small, you can never trust them with something large. You will always have an element of doubt with anything she says or perhaps does. I think it is time to part ways.
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I have just hired a part time helper who comes in at twelve from another part time job that she does. She comes all tired and hungry and expects me to feed her. I usually take a light lunch around 3 or 4 and till then she just sits hungry and cranky and not really energetic. What should I do? She also always has a stern or an aggressive expression whenever I address her.
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We are very dissappointed with our helper, when we got back from annual leave, she was very subdued, she meantioned our little electric lawnmower started to smoke when she used it, we find out later from our next door neighbours (who employ her daughter as dh), and unfortunately were on annual leave at the same time as us, that our dh had lent the mower to the daughter, without our consent of course, to mow our next door neighbors garden. Our next door neighbors were really upset and furious about them using our equipment without asking.
When we checked the mower properly it was thoroughly wrecked, because they had carried on using it when the plastic blades had snapped and burnt the motor out. My husband of course asked for the truth, didn't get it straight away, until he mentioned, next doors garden and the fact that they knew what had happened.
Our Dh is now sulking, didn't like being found out, but it makes me wonder what other things she might lend out or do when we are on leave, she has been told not to lend out anything again, but it makes it difficult to trust her, she has not yet worked a full year for us, and we have had to repremand her for other things.
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My experience has not been the best. Today my helper started to sip my baby's juice from her sipping cup! I caught her red-handed and she was like oh the baby wasn't drinking! I can't believe her!
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Purefit, that is really gross - she obviously has no sense of hygene -personally I wouldn't want her around my child particularly if she can't even understand how dirty she is.
Regarding your earlier post - if she is your part time helper you are under no obligation to provide any food for her at all. I assume she is earning a relatively high hourly rate from you and her other employer she should buy her own food.
It is only full time contracts which stipulate that food is to be provided. Make this point clear to her.
Having said that, p/t is illegal so she may be trying you on for extras knowing you can't do anything about it. Be careful.
Susie - I had similar experience of my helper lending my things out even if I was around. Once I wanted to use my blender and couldn't find it - I asked my helper and was quite stunned to hear she had given it to the helper upstairs to use a week earlier - never occurred to her to ask me before lending out my property!!
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It really makes you wonder what they can do behind our backs. I mean, we've all been employees and depending on what line of work we were in, telling little white lies is something we've probably all done. I understand that DHs want to save their butts and their jobs (I hope) but denying and lying about something that is obviously not the truth is really not doing their integrity any good. This is all the more upsetting when we have children in their care. Yes, I could always look after my child and do all the housework myself. In fact, I will seriously consider this option if this loss of trust continues.
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ummm... helpers drink out of the kids' cups ALL The time!! i see it everywhere. playrooms, mcdonald's, etc.. i have seen one helper put 2 straws into a mcdonald's drink, one for the kid and the other one for herself. i guess she doesn't realize that stuff comes back out into the drink through the straw! seriously, a lot of helpers do NOT have any common sense in hygiene.
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My husband and I saw a group of helpers in our clubhouse toddler room once. They sat in a circle and left the children running around. That didn't bother me that much until we saw one of them giggling and laughing about a baby picking skin off of the sole of her helper. The worse part is that the baby put it in her mouth and they laughed. My husband and I couldn't believe our eyes and yes, we stopped the baby. Ewww...
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I am thinking about getting a nanny cam, has anyone used one here?
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Most helper are lie what ever you so nice to them but they still try cheating you in many ways , and some time you look at them face you belive what they say and think they are going to church on very sunday we should belive them ,then we have been cheated again,they lie like they nature . last summer I interviw a phlipping helper who hase been termined for her employer has finacial prolem ,she already move out from her employer home ,one day morning i call her and she pick up the phone i hardly hear from her so noise like in big party , late I find out she stay with her friend there,(a othere helper )her friend employ by an american family in stanley living a house ,the wife bring two daughters back to us for a holiday the husband gone for businss and will after join the famly in us late .the helper will look after the 4 floor the house .this house the helper taken many other helpers for temporary living the house and othere day was a big party at house for a helper leaving hongkong to canada ,(sonds at lease 20 or 30 more pepole there) that is why a lot of helper looking for expat family (because more freedom)
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I have to agree with you xmbp2233, they tend to get up to little tricks while 'the boss' is away, ours went through a phase for a few weeks when she was "visiting a friend" to use the internet web cam to speak to her family in Fills, and paying her friend 10hkd / hour for the privilage, it stopped after 3 weeks, so presume her friends boss returned from annual leave. Personally I keep my computer 'locked' with a password, so it cannot be accessed when we are out of the house, I don't want anyone using it for little scams, and also looking into personal files or indeed downloading any stuff which may harm the computer.
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Purefit: Yes, I have installed a nanny cam at home but just in the baby's room. I am thinking if I should install one in the living / dining room. My hesitation is that the helper will feel that I will be always checking her out so she might be unhappy.
I don't think any of us here are racist or ill treat our helpers because they are from a poorer country, but it's sad and disappointing to hear what they do to us in return: telling lies, cheating on us or using our abusing our possesions. The worst is what using the house for parties or even the employer's bed for their sexual needs. This is totally intolerable. I just wonder why they do that.
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What we have in Hong Kong is an unnatural situation; People in the role of employing domestic help who have no previous experience of this, they may not be “privileged” enough in there home country to afford this luxury. Very often with no experience at all of being an employer directly responsible for overseeing staff at all. These people act as employers to an underclass of unskilled and often ill educated manual workers, in a home environment alien to them, made affordable suddenly by ex-pat packages and sub minimum-wage near slave rate wages. Don’t be surprised if this is not a match that meets either employer’s or employee’s expectations.
The ranting about individual disappointments’ here, real as they may be, demonstrates my case.
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The number of pointless rants about domestic help on this discussion forum disgusts me.
If you don't trust someone in your own home, then don't hire a domestic helper. Plain and simple.
If you think you might have the opportunity to be lied to or stolen from, don't put yourself in that situation.
I'm so sick of reading about people slagging off Filipinos and Indonesians with heresay, gossip, rumors, and negativity.
The majority of people from those countries are very honest, religiously devout, good people.
There are a few bad seeds in every social or culture group and I'm sure there are some very real situation in which helpers take advantage of the situation, lie, cheat, steal.
You must realize that you contribute to that situation by hiring them in the first place and expecting them to serve you under the terms of indentured slavery. You must remember that they do not receive any salary until after the 7th month of their contract. They must pay the airfare and the agency fees out of the first 7 months of their pay. For many, it's a better life then they would be living in rural parts of Indonesia or the Phillipines, but that doesn't mean that they are not human beings that deserve the same respect that you command.
If you don't have anything better to do than to go on to an expat discussion forum and winge about your helper, you are truly pathetic.
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I think (and not as an excuse for them) that it is very much a cultural phenomenom. Most helpers will lie. Thye lie because they know they are expected to behave a certain way by their employers. They will never admit they drink or have boyfriends or are not religious. It is been drilled into them that they are suppose to be good and decile etc. even though most of them are only too human. I think it would be difficult to find one that did not give out white lies. As long as they do not steal and treat your children well, we as exmployees should not be too naive. They are not professional caregivers and it would be unrealistic to expect them to treat our children the way we would. As for the hygiene concerns I don't think they know any better and don't see the problem in most of what they do. If you have even been to a poor country and seen the way people live you would understand. Basically, train your helpers well and don't expect to much of them when they are out of your supervision. I think they are like grown children. They will try to get away with whatever they can.
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"Most helpers will lie. Thye lie because they know they are expected to behave a certain way by their employers. They will never admit they drink or have boyfriends or are not religious. It is been drilled into them that they are suppose to be good and decile etc. even though most of them are only too human. I think it would be difficult to find one that did not give out white lies."
A lot of that could be eliminated if the employers didn't expect a saint to walk into their home. As you say helpers are human. As employers we should strive to understand our helper's "humanity" in their private lives and not make a big deal about it.
"Basically, train your helpers well and don't expect to much of them when they are out of your supervision. I think they are like grown children. They will try to get away with whatever they can."
I must disagree with this. Expect more from your helper than childlike behavior. Expect her not to try to get away with things. Expect her to act maturely. Make it very clear that she is in charge when you are away. Make it possible for her to live up to a higher professional standard. If she doesn't live up to it, give feedback, try to correct, in the end perhaps terminate. If she does, great!
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Cameras: As far as I know it is legal to install one but in my opinion it is invasive and unnecessary. Either you trust the helper or not. Give her the benefit of the doubt. If you install a cam you are sending the message that you don't trust her whatever she does.
"I don't think any of us here are racist or ill treat our helpers because they are from a poorer country, but it's sad and disappointing to hear what they do to us in return: telling lies, cheating on us or using our abusing our possesions. The worst is what using the house for parties or even the employer's bed for their sexual needs. This is totally intolerable. I just wonder why they do that."
You make it sound like they all do that. In fact it is a very small percentage that are bad seeds. With, by my estimate, around a quarter million helpers in HK, there are bound to be horror stories. Are these indicative of your average helper? Absolutely not. Horror stories are much more juicy and people enjoy telling them (and hearing them) much more than "my helper is just fine and I am happy with her" stories.
As for no one here being racist, plenty of people even in my building treat helpers very badly. Because they are helpers. There is plenty of racism around.
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"The good thing about this forum is you can trace here who are very silly and talking nonsense, troublemaker, good, kind and reasonable people."
Be more specific.
This thread and these forums are for us to vent and give opinions. I'm sure helpers have similar forums to praise or b@#ch about their employers. The thing is, we've employed helpers, regardless of their nationality (they could be a local chinese woman for that matter) to take care of our family and home. They're not employed as an office clerk or cashier. I personally wouldn't give a hoot if my office clerk or cashier got pregnant, doesn't go home for the night, takes pieces of A4 paper or pen home, etc. but the fact is, domestic helpers are domestic helpers. It's their job nature that puts some restraints on what they 'should' and 'shouldn't' do. I wouldn't want my child's teachers to go drinking the night before and roll up to class the next day with a hangover. The same goes for helpers. I wouldn't want them to come home tired and exhausted because their main job duty involves my family and home. Therefore some employers have certain expectations on our employees and unfortunately, some of us haven't found someone who we can work well with. My maid and I have a good working relationship and that's how I'd like to keep things. There have been moments where I've been let down (the reason for starting this thread) but I've swept it all under the carpet and life goes on.
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I think lies and disappointments can be avoided if we treat our helpers nicely, maturely and properly, tell them our expectations. Sometimes troubles are caused by poor communication so perhaps look into how we talk /communicate to them. Also, respect them and appreciate what they do.
We all tell lies from time to time, if the lies are not serious, then just let them go. I have always encouraged my helper to be honest with me and my husband If she wants to go out at night, lend something to the neighbour or whatever, she will let us know beforehand, so she doesn't have to sneak out, hide it behind our back and we don't have to suspect her. It takes time and effort to build a good relationship and trust.
''You make it sound like they all do that. In fact it is a very small percentage that are bad seeds. With, by my estimate, around a quarter million helpers in HK, there are bound to be horror stories. Are these indicative of your average helper? Absolutely not. Horror stories are much more juicy and people enjoy telling them (and hearing them) much more than "my helper is just fine and I am happy with her" stories.
Yes, I agree there are bad seeds in every nation but that doesn't apply to all the helpers. There are some good ones out there. My parent's have had the same helper for more than 20 years...
I used to listen to all the bad things about helpers from my friends and be so suspicious about my helper until one day I got really sick, then I asked my friends if they treated their helpers well ...
For those who' had bad experience, well I am sorry. Hope your problems have been sorted out and good luck if you are looking for a new one.
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I lived in Thailand for quite some time and many of my friends were Thai men. I didn't do the 2 to 4 week, with a bar girl following me around the whole time scenario that many short term tourists do.
One of the things that I noticed was that because of the way that Thai's live in small areas where they know everyone, everything is much more communal. They live a more clan like lifestyle than us westerners are used to. Everyone knows everyone else all along the street where they live and they LOVE to gossip. It's kind of like their means for getting news around and entertainment all at the same time. It's also a means of imposing social rules. Nobody wants to be embarrassed about doing something wrong because everyone will know about it. That may be a reason why you see your helper talking on the phone or SMS'ing so often. It's in their blood to chit chat with each other. It's really quite a funny phenomenon, more so than us in the West.
The result of this is that they share many things, including drinks. As I became more close with my friends, it was very common for them to share water or beer with me.
It was a bit uncomfortable (and seemingly un-hygenic) at first, but as time went on, I realized this was a sign of closeness and acceptance.
I'm not saying that it is correct or hygenic by your standards, but I wouldn't call it gross and misconstrue it is a negative gesture towards your family or child. Quite the opposite I would say.
If you feel that this is not acceptable, you might try to explain not only that is not acceptable, but the reasons why it is not acceptable.
Not sharing a drink might be quite a foreign concept to her and a hard habit to break when she is so intimately close with your child.
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All helpers like me tell lies. Everyone. We tell lie when asked " how are you?" by our employers and replied " I'm fine, thank you". when deep inside, we're not. We're not fine because maybe we don't get enough sleep as our body aches from 12-16 hours of work. We were not fine because maybe we simply are sick. or longs for home. But, we cannot say " no, I'm not fine". Lucky are those who could say so and have their employer understand.
When our employers "forget" that pay day was a week ago, or when we have to go home early during our day offs ( or leave late whichever is the case) because our employers are expecting some guests or has to go, or when we have to help our employer's friend or relative about something ( mostly household chores or run and errand) and we say " It's okay ma'am/sir, no problem" when in truth, we rather not, then we are liars.
We have to " lie" to be "good/excellent/a star/ in our employerr' book instead of being un-cooperative/selfish if we say otherwise.
A lie should never be tolerated nor condoned, but tell me..who among of you here have not told a lie to your employer/s before?
Have you ever thought that in your helper's mind...she was telling the truth and the problem lies on the fact that her truth differs from yours?
So to the OP, if it's trivial as you say, the best thing to do is call her out and let her know you are not a fool and knows what's the real score. That should be enough to teach her a lesson.
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We all lie to everyone, to our friends, employers, family... No doubt about it.
As an employee, yes I have lied to my boss, saying' It's OK, I am fine, no problem' even though I don't get enough sleep due to too much OT, feeling sick or have my own personal problems. I do have to go to the office earlier or leave later for meetings and trips and run errands for my bosses but still say 'I am OK.' We are all expected to do a bit more sometimes.
If I find myself denying my feelings all the time just because I want to look good but I am actually miserable, I will consider changing my job.
As an employer, I fulfill my responibilites and I pay my helper on time. I help her with household chores and take care of the baby when I go home from work, make sure she is not overworked. At the end of the day, I just want her to be happy so she does her job well.
I hope not ALL helpers lie to their employers about their feelings ALL THE TIME. It's not nice to work and to live with someone who says she/he is fine but still shows a sour face.
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Trust cannot be bought. It is only earned over time and experience. A new employee should not be trusted. The domestic helper system in Hong Kong is flawed for this reason. New parents must trust people they have not had the pleasure of observing over time and experience. I think the best a new employer can do in this situation is to increase duties and responsibilities gradually, as trust is earned.
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