Dear All,
I need some advice. I have a helper who has been with me for the last 9 months. I found her to be rather "rough" and not taking care of my things well. Example, when she vacumn the floor underneath my sofa, she would just either drag it across the floor and causes scratched on the wooden floor. Or when she lifts it, she will lift & "let go" of the sofa , instead of placing it back gently on the floor. I understand the sofa might be a heavy but this is just an example.
My concern is that since she came to our house, many items have been broken or gone malfunction. We just moved here about 1.5 years ago. All electrical stuff is brand new. For those electrical stuff, perhaps I was unlucky as these items do go malfunction out of no reason. But here is a list of broken things, some I know she did it but some I can't prove. I wonder should I start to deduct the pay of my helper ? So far, I have not done anythign except reminder her to be gentle of our things. But I am thinking about it and would like to get some objective opinion. The last item she broke was the toilet flush that cost me $800 to repair.
1) Microwave - glass plate would not rotate
2) kettle - socket got loose
3) non-stick rice cooker - deep scracthes on the bottom of the ricke cooker
4) non-stick Saucepan - the non-stick material (top black-grey layer) on the saucepan is all scratched and peelign out when you cook on it.
5) Short Fused vacumn - wire burnt inside
6) Burnt shirt
7) Broken toilet flusher ( 2 plumbers confirmed that it was due to "rough" use) in the maid quarters.
8) Dented walls due to contact from maybe the brooms/mops?
9) Broken pot cover
10) Broken tea pot
11) Dented Refridgerator door
12) Flap on the air conditioner stop working
Other smaller things but weird, using over 750ml of dish detergent over 6 weeks in a household where simple cooking is done only once daily for 5 days. Laundry detergent: 2 litres ( extra concentrated) in less than 2 months PLUS 1kg of powder laundry detergent in the same 2 months for a household of 3 people... I am not sure how such usage level can happen given that I used to do all my housework for the past 5 years...
Can someone help recommend a solution that might work and not break my relationship with my helper?
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Sitting down and having a frank conversation should always be the first step. Most helper's aren't "evil". Perhaps she hasn't really thought about it. While that's not good in itself, it doesn't mean she can't improve., A conversation over a cup of tea might clear things out.
DO voice your concerns, but also DO try to make her understand why you are concerned. Give her a chance to improve.
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Hi RichmonHill,
Honestly after reading the list of damaged/broken things, I would let her go.
Do you really believe she can change this ? I really seems that she doesn't care about your belongings.
How long has she been working with you now ? If she has just started you may want to try to sit down with her and talk about his to make her understand it is a problem for you. If she's been with you for a while, well then she must believe that you accept it as you never said anything to her before !
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Thanks for your comments thus far.
axtpguy38: SHe has been with us for 9 months. For the past 9 months, I have reminded her in a soft way to be gentle with our things. Never once we penalized her or anything. She gets gifts christmas & CNY and presents while we travel our of town. What more does she need for me to tell her that we value her work??
But I am trying to also strike a balance where I want to be heard to. After 9 months of nothing more than occasional reminders, I think I need send a clearer message. I do believe that she is not evil otherwise would not have kept her for 9 months. For the record, her answers are always "Dont know why" those things get broken. For electrical stuff, I can never challenge her and don't intend to either. But for burnt clothes from ironing and saying she doenst know why and I am bit skeptical. Now the bathroom, which is clear that two different plumbers told me that it was due to careless usage, I can convince myself that she ought to be more careful with our belongings.
Cara, thanks for your pointer. FYI, I have showed her how much to use and even make marks on it. Time and time, I asked her ( in a nice way of course), did you use the proper amount? She would admit that she use her own estimation ( despite with the marker).. I am not sure what else I can do and I dont like to micromanage.
To answer your feedback, yes, I have expected that bad things will happen as human beings are not perfect. But dont you think letting it go time after time is not a good idea? In my case, now it cost me $800 to fix the bathroom. As to my AC flap, I was just quoted another $500.. Again, things like that I can't prove but we know well in the house that no on uses/clean the AC in that particular room.
itsmeinhk: as I said, I reminded her occasionally when such things happens. Would hate to let her go .. it seems that perhaps I need to give her a "warning" letter of some sort...
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Agreed with cara. If you have warned her, that's that.
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thanks cara.. Do you know of a trustworthy agency to call upon? It seems you know getting about life in HK a fair bit ...
to the rest of the reades: Any recommendation on agencies would help in exploring other options.
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Ed
14 yrs ago
If you need agency services Evelyn in our office is as good as it gets... she charges less than any other agency (and helpers pay nothing)
You can get her info here - you can also find loads of helpers with employer references and avoid agencies altogether
http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/helpers/
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Ed
14 yrs ago
Also you might review this thread - we started the AsiaXPAT Agency because of the horror stories we were hearing from helpers...
http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/forums/hong-kong-domestic-help/threads/118315/domestic-helper-agencies/
Excerpt: urther on this topic of DH Agencies.
When we started the helper channnel on our site many years ago, quite a number of agencies were put to the sword because so many expats stopped using them and hired directly off our site.
In desperation some of them cut a deal with the Philippine consulate and suddenly helpers started showing up at our office with reports that the consulate would only stamp contracts from people who got jobs off of AsiaXPAT if they involved an agency.
We got on the phone with the consulate and the ICAC and raised hell with them. Apparently they go the message as the new 'AsiaXPAT Rule' was quickly dropped...
However this was not the end of story - helpers who registered with us started getting all sorts of filthy and/or abuse telephone calls. This was ultimately traced back to some of the agencies. They eventually gave up on this attempt at sabotage.
And finally, the best one - an agency in Causeway Bay was handing our flyers with our logo on them claiming to be from our office in Causeway Bay. They were then charging helpers HKD500 to post an ad that would guarantee them an expat employer. What they were doing was taking the $500 and paying the fee to post an ad on our site $200 and pocketing the difference.
This only stopped after we threatened legal action. Subsequently this agency was prosecuted on unrelated criminal charges.
Of course not all agencies are participating in such activities, but I would strongly suggest you try hiring direct - or if you need help give Evelyn a call as this ensures that no one is being taken advantage of.
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Related question for Ed: Apart from the "finding" part, does AsiaXpat also process the contracts, as in go to immigration and all that? Or do employers and helpers need to do that by themselves if they hire through the site? Not that it's a huge deal since it is not a lot of work. Just curious.
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Ed
14 yrs ago
I'm not sure exactly how the processing happens as ... we are a massive corporation and often one dept is not sure what the other is up to :)... I will have to pass this to Evelyn to comment
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Hi axptguy38
This is Evelyn..Apart from the "finding" part of our service we also do all the paper work, we also submit the application on behalf of the helper if she is on duty or will assist her if she has already been released from her employment.
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Thanks Evelyn. Good to know. Do you charge extra for those parts of the service?
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No, there is no extra charge as this is included in our agency service fee.
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ShazP
14 yrs ago
I hope my reply helps:
My Helper who is really good..has been doing similar stuff. She has been with us for 7 months & ever since our, mocrovawe, iron, vacuum clear, expensive lamp broken, Bose speakers dropped & several more stuff has been destroyed.
We have replaced nearly all of it last week. After I fixed all the new equipment, I sat her down & had a honest chat with her-
I informed her that we have been noticing that ever since she has been in our empoy, a lot of our stuff has been broken or destroyed. We explaed to her that every item in this house is brought with care & are expensive as she knows we do not stinge in our home. I have told her that now onwards, we expect her to treat all our things with respect & with the utmost care. She has be a lot more careful now, as the excuses wont work.
I explained to her, that she is good at her work & we are happy with her...we want to see this too sorted & not have to deal with these issues anymore.
She accepted our chat & said she will be very careful.
I believe I made myself clear to her. I know she understood every single word & she also knows we are aware & have kept an account of all the damaged items.
We will be giving her a chance & seeing how she is now. I believe in her & thats what gives me peace of mind.
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Dear Spare-Rib_hk,
Thanks for your advice. It really helps. Over weekend, I have also thought it out the hassle of replacing a new helper given our current circumstances now (both of us are a lot busier with work now and may not have tiem to train up a new helper. But given that it's been frustrating, as you know, soemthing really has to be done to ensure that my concerns sticks with her. I guess it's obvious that my approach does not work at all for the past 9 months .
I will have a serious chat with her tonight. Instead of deducting her pay for the damaged items we decided not to increase her salary which we said we will starting this month. We had initially plan to increase her salary for the 2nd time from 3800 to 4000. But now, I will have to tell her honestly that I cant , given that I REPEATEDLY tell her to be careful of our belongings. We will review her performance during the next 3 months again. These 3 months will be her LAST chance to prove herself. If she improves, she gets her increment , else, I will resort to what cara & Axtpguy has proposed - let her go.
I am not sure if this is fair enough from a helper's perspective or too harsh to withold the increment.
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I would write the 'content' of your chat down, give her a copy, effectively a written warning, that way she will realise you really are concerned, and mean it!
Give her a set length of time to improve, and to remain 'improved", and if she reverts to her old clumsy ways she will be terminated.
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Susie1, that is a good idea. At least this is to ensure that she gets my point and acknowledges the content of the discussion.
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I always say that when you are thinking of hiring a helper one of the things you should budget for in the total costs is breakages. I factor HK$1000 a month for this. Unfortunately your stuff is not your helpers stuff and so she doesn't have the sentimental feeling or any reason to care about it. I understand what you are all saying. I have had a couple of good helpers but they have done some really dumb things with my stuff including:
* Putting my brand new suede diesel pumps in the washing machine.
* Bashing the hoover into stuff - my sons cot and teak furniture has about 10 bashes where she had just rammed into them.
* Brocken figurines that cost over HK$3000 each.
* Countless shrunk, burn't clothes. Countless whites gone grey as soon as they take over the washing.
* I have no teaspoons left!! Work that one out!!
* Mislaid bus cards with HK$500 on them.
* Broken coffee machine
* Jim Thomson cushions gone in the washing machine and ruined.
Seriously though, this is not a gripe as I did know what I was letting myself in for when I hired a helper. As such though, we will soon be buying and moving to an apartment which will be much smaller than our house. We are planning on kitting it out quite nicely and I want to buy new furniture. Because of what I have said above we have decided that I am going to do my own housework and chores etc. because we are just not prepared to have our new stuff and our own home wrecked. Sounds harsh but sadly it's true.
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Wow. That's a lot of stuff. Our helper has managed to wash some dry clean only clothes in the machine and broken a few glasses (heck this happens to me too) but that's about it. She is nowhere near what you list. In fact she is almost more careful with our stuff than we are!
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Angsana, I totally agree with you, once our dodgy helper has finished her contract here, if she manages to last that long- she is going, WoooH! freedom!, from things goings missing, getting broken, ruined etc etc, and I will say never again, I didn't know wht I was letting myself in for.
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I don't get it. If all these things are happening why do you insist on keeping the helper after a couple of warnings? Why wait until the end of the contract? What she is doing is negligent. This is not the kind of behavior that you need to accept from an employee. There are better helpers than that.
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What I think is even more crazy is that some employers seem to EXPECT their helper to break, lose and ruin things! Expect and demand more from your helper. She is not supposed to be an element of frustration. She is supposed to HELP.
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Angsana.. I hear ya! The cost of replacing these items are indeed not cheap. But more important is the fact that you took the time to choose every single piece of household item yourself. ( if not all, most).. All these also bear an emotional cost to it...
Cara ..you are really lucky. Not sure how you found your helper or how you trained her to be responsible. $1500 for 5 years! My god,, I am getting close to $5000 already... that too , I have not replaced my microwave!
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We didn't have to train our helper to be responsible. She is far more responsible and dutiful than I am! Sometimes I joke that if my wife had to choose she would get rid of me before her. ;)
It's all about finding the right person. It should not be necessary to train her to be responsible. This is a trait that is essential for her to carry out her job.
Replace your helper and demand more from the new one. She is an employee and once past honest mistakes you need to let her go if she cannot competently carry out her job.
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probably... I must say that mine got off to a very lenient path when she started and mostly my fault . It's almost impossible to make a u-turn and enforce things that we have never enforced before without makigng her feel bad.
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It's all part of the learning process of hiring a helper.
I was the same - when the helper arrived, I said to just keep the place clean etc etc. They could organise their own schedule and then when I notice things that I wanted doing, I would tell them.
Now I know better: I have a schedule that I've written to tell them what to do. I will explain how to do it and what I expect from them. We have our second helper now, and she also isn't good, but I kept her around because I thought she needed time to learn. It's been several months now - so my other lesson learnt is to try them for maybe 2 months - if it's not good, move on, because you potentially might be hiring this person for up to the next 10 years. So put in the time and effort to find someone good and don't hang onto them if you have doubts. You'll fare better in the long-run.
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Hi Axpatguy, in answer to your earlier comment, why have we still got her, that is my husdands fault, as his name is on the contract, yes, she had written warnings, but if it was totally my decision, she would have gone at Christmas, He thinks because she saves him doing the gardenning, and is there looking after our dog while we go on holiday, she is indespansible, when we have been on holiday is when most things have gone missing-for good, if I complain, he says Oh its only a couple of thousand dollars worth! we just won't renew her contract,
He thinks he has done me a great favour, employing a maid, because we didn't have one before, if I complain he says I'm ungratefull. He doesn't like to sack her because he feels because she is elderly she needs all the money she can get before she retires, and says if I want to sack her I have his permission, but I don't think Immigration would agree to that as his name is on the contract as employer, catch 22 eh! Since the last warning, she has not taken anything, but we haven't been on holiday either. My husband says we will have to photograph the possition of everything in our cupboards before we go, and do an inventory, if anything goes missing this time, then he will sack her. We'll see.
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Wow... Susie1, I sure hope that she has only a little time left on ther contract.
Would not have tolerated stealing in any circumstances. Then again, it's tough to proof that she took 'em. Just as ay of us trying to proof that she was THE ONE whoe broke the coffee maker /AC/fan/.....and the list goes on...
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Susie1, I feel sorry for you and your situation..
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Susie1
My watch which isn't too pricey (in HK terms) worth just $10000 went missing. We searched for yonks - every inch of the house, every box, every crevice as it had a GREAT sentimental value. I told my helper that if it doesn't turn up in two hours, I'll be heading to the police station to file a theft report. While i was in the living room, my helper called out to me (15 minutes later) and claimed that she found the watch in the tissue box next on my bedside table - I checked the box and it wasn't there before.
You may not be able to fire her but next time something goes missing, you can make a report and make sure she knows about it.
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RichmondHill
The same helper within a week destroyed our brand new vacuum cleaner, ruined our sink - there is a permanent burnt ring in the sink and now the bathtubs in both bathroom cannot be unplugged unless you get a chisel and hammer. We have pen ink stains on our couch because she felt fit to leave a 3 year old with her blue point pen. Fed up by it all, i threatened to take $300 every month out of her paycheck until the bill is cleared to fix the problems she created and magically, we never had any problems after. There is a clause in the DH contract - by law you can take that small sum out for every damaged item.
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familyofthree
I feel your pain! And thanks for the info. I think actions like that really leaves us no choice. But can you trust that she will take care of your kid well after you threatened her with these terms?
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"Hi Axpatguy, in answer to your earlier comment, why have we still got her, that is my husdands fault, as his name is on the contract, yes, she had written warnings, but if it was totally my decision, she would have gone at Christmas, He thinks because she saves him doing the gardenning, and is there looking after our dog while we go on holiday, she is indespansible, when we have been on holiday is when most things have gone missing-for good, if I complain, he says Oh its only a couple of thousand dollars worth! we just won't renew her contract,
He thinks he has done me a great favour, employing a maid, because we didn't have one before, if I complain he says I'm ungratefull. He doesn't like to sack her because he feels because she is elderly she needs all the money she can get before she retires, and says if I want to sack her I have his permission, but I don't think Immigration would agree to that as his name is on the contract as employer, catch 22 eh! Since the last warning, she has not taken anything, but we haven't been on holiday either. My husband says we will have to photograph the possition of everything in our cupboards before we go, and do an inventory, if anything goes missing this time, then he will sack her. We'll see."
i think you have a problem with your husband and not with your maid...
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My list is over the course of 4 maids, 2 of which I fired plus 1 maid left when we left HK. My current maid is good except for some ditzy stuff that has cost us money. However we have decided that having a maid is just not for us. Some may say that we have just not found the right one, but there is no right one for us. I just can't tolerate the small annoying stuff and at the end of the day it's our fault, not necessarily hers. I'd much rather have my privacy and a messy place. Even though I think our maid carries out her duties quite well I just can't stand having another woman in my place. She is actually a good maid but she does try to muscle in on my kids and some of the things she does undermines me as a parent which I refuse to tolerate. She's saying until we leave this house which is toward the end of this year and until then I am putting my foot firmly down on stuff.
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Our Dh's contract finishes in November! UH.
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don't have time to read through all the posts but why would anyone accept things going missing? i don't think immigration cares who terminates the helper. send in the notice and just have your husband sign the damn letter. how hard is that?
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Pls check this: Practical Guide For Employment of foreign domestic helpers – What foreign domestic helpers and their employers should know
Table of Contents
It's online - useful guide, although it's still a guide.
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thanks for your update campervan, in case you didn't notice that the last reply was 1034 days back, that roughly 3 years !
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Dear, easy solution.... tell her about the quotation to fix the broken things (for example broken maids quarter flush), and tell her next time it gets broken you will will have it fixed and deduct the amount to her salary, or she can put-up with it and use even if broken! Same with other items.... they usually wont care if it wont cost them a penny to fix, but will be extra watchful when they know it will get deducted from their salary.
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jgl
11 yrs ago
Mately, you are replying to a three year old thread.
Also, you can legally deduct up to $300 per breakage. Given that this is almost 10% of a monthly salary, it represents a good chunk of money to an FDH.
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