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No wage receipts and false claim by domestic helper

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ORIGINAL POST
Posted by garg 15 yrs ago
Hi


I had employed a domestic helper who had been working for more than 3 years with us. I had always paid her full wages in cash however did not get any receipts signed from her. We had even renewed contract with her after 2 years


We had to terminate her contract recently and we were paying one month salary in lieu of notice, return tickets and outstanding wages for that month. However she refused to take that.


She has now filed false claims with the labour department that we were underpaying her for last 3 years.


Thus i had following queries

1. Does the employer has no recourse if he/she does not have wage receipts, despite the fact that DH even renewed contract with us. Only on termination she started to file such complaints.


2. Is there any association from whom employers can seek any help.


3.Can anybody help if we can take any good legal advice in this matter..


Thanks

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COMMENTS
punter 15 yrs ago
It's your word against hers. Usually in cases like this, it's the employers who are more believable. If you can't prove that you paid your helper the right salary, how can she prove that she was underpaid?


Here in HK, the helpers are mostly the ones who have been taken advantage of. So they're the ones who have organized themselves with the help of some good hearted souls.


Because it's a labour department case, you don't need a lawyer. Just attend the hearings and be truthful.

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Susie1 15 yrs ago
I am sure the labour dept will look at the fact, she was happy to renew contract, and you were happy to do that, as a fact when considering her false claim against you, after all if she had been underpaid she wouldn't have been happy to stay so long.

It is always wiser for any employer to get a receipt for anything at all they give a helper, as it will prevent problems like this.

She may have already realised she hasn't much chance of providing enough evidence, and just want to do this to extend her stay until the hearing,it is a shame they can't be fined for wasting officials time, and banned from any work for a certain time that would deter them. It will be interesting to know the outcome, good luck.

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axptguy38 15 yrs ago
"2. Is there any association from whom employers can seek any help."


There is the "Association of Employers of Domestic Helpers". I don't know if they can help.

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garg 15 yrs ago
Hi All


Thanks a lot for your replies. I totally agree with all of you that we relied on basic trust and made the mistake of not having documentary evidence.


However what I have heard is that it is the onus of the employer to prove that they have paid Minimum wages. It would be great if anyone of you can refer me to the people who had similar issues.


The case is being referred to Labour Tribunal and they rely on documentary evidence despite the fact that how can it take more than 3 years for employee to report underpayment.


Really looking forward for reply from someone who has face labour tribunal on such a case

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homely 15 yrs ago
My helper has been working for us (just hubby & I) for nearly 6 years and will enter her 4th contract with us soon. In the beginning, she signed at the last page of the market book but as time went by (a few months), I told her it wasn't necessary and she has stopped signing since. I think I will ask her to sign for her wages again when we re-new her next contract this coming Oct/Nov seeing the problem OP has pointed out. We are currently paying her $4,500/month so do I write that amount or break it down as the current minimum salary + the difference as bonus? I know it is a wise move but also sad that I have to return to this long forgotten procedure with my helper whom I have come to trust. Hope this change wouldn't hurt our employer/employee relationship.

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Susie1 15 yrs ago
Ours is done on a rolling standing order, then if we are out of Hk, without easy internet access, then we know she gets paid.

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homely 15 yrs ago
She doesn't have an account in HK and she sends all her money back to her family as soon as she gets paid because she is the sole earner. She doesn't need any money for herself here in HK as we provide everything for her......only on sundays when she goes to church and to meet up with her friends that she spent a tiny amount for herself. BTW, she was told by her best friend that one needs to have $5,000 in the bank before an account can be opened or else one gets a fine or something.

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homely 15 yrs ago
I don't think she will open an account as she's comfortable with her situation for so many years but I'll tell her that she's been misinformed....just another option for her....thanks!

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axptguy38 15 yrs ago
"We are currently paying her $4,500/month so do I write that amount or break it down as the current minimum salary + the difference as bonus? "


No. You should write it all up as wages. Only break out food allowance, if any.

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homely 15 yrs ago
The reason I ask this question is that we calculate the long service payment according to the minimum salary, not $4,500 or eventually maybe to an even larger amount as years go by if she continues to work for us and we do not want any problem when the time comes to part. Just a thought - maybe it's OK.

Actually I gave her the full long service payment for the 6 years already as her father was ill. This I've asked her to sign although some said it's not appropriate. Hope my deed doesn't back-fire....no, I don't think so....my helper is good.

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garg 15 yrs ago
If any one has any experience with Labour tribunal regarding the case mentioned above then please let me know or getting expert advice on the subject above..


Thanks

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axptguy38 15 yrs ago
homely, in that case I suppose you could write bonus. However to be fair her long service payment should be calculated on her entire salary. Then again I don't think the law is completely clear on the matter.


If your helper is good she should have no problem signing as you say.

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punter 15 yrs ago
Bank accounts with less than 5,000 average balance will incur a penalty. Can anyone confirm on this? Some old HK people made some kind of protest on this before...

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garg 15 yrs ago
Grytch, thanks for sharing this. Had read about this couple of days ago.. However I was wondering if anyone has faced labour tribunal on a similar case and their experiences and suggestions on how to deal with the case.


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Susie1 15 yrs ago
Hi Garg, Good luck with the tribunal, I am sure some while back I read some thread about, Helper taking Employer to tribunal-then the helper didn't turn up at the hearing, so the case was closed.

There have been some very old threads about tribunal, if you type in quick nav. at the top of this page 'tribunal'you can read them, but there have been no results posted.

Just make sure you turn up, stay positive, Good luck again.

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billkalbo 15 yrs ago
Sorry I can't help with the legal aspects but as many are reading this, I will offer a suggestion along the lines of what I've done in the past.


Simplest way is to make her get her own account at your bank so the transfer is instantaneous. If not:

• Take the DH to your bank.

• Introduce them.

• Ask to open an account in her/his name with your recommendation. This normally works.

• If not, open a joint account. This is really YOUR account that she has access to. You get internet access to your main account and your joint account but she can't access your main account. You can easily move money into her (your joint) account for her pay.

• Then get 3 ATM cards. One for you, one for her and one for her family, assuming she sends it all home.

• If not, open another joint account that has 2 ATM cards that is accessible by her family.


This also works great for wives/girlfriends who would call you from the store saying "Lobsters and steaks are half price". Instead of having to fund them with $300 or a credit card, you can just move cash in 30 seconds so they can get your favorite nibbles. Laugh but this has happened several times. Log into internet banking and they can get the cash from an ATM before you hang up the phone.

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souffleQueen 15 yrs ago
First thing first:


Try contacting St John's Helpers for Domestic Helper at 25234020 or Read More or Mission for migrant workers Read More. They cater mostly to helpers but I believe, they could give you specific answers.


Also, without proof from you - or her- let us not undermine the system.I think it's pretty easy to spot who lies about whom/what.

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souffleQueen 15 yrs ago
HSBC requires HK$5000.00 to open up an account and same amount as the maintaining balance or you have to pay HK60 (or 80)/month if your balance fall below 5k. That's the basic. They also have SmartVantage -HK10,000.00 opening/maintaining balance which is a checking and multi currency account. Next is the Business Vantage that requires HK250.000. I have been using smartvantage for years, but was upgraded to BusinessVantage as I do ForEx and have a trading account in HK and on LSE- (London Stock Exchange).

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sp517 15 yrs ago
hello garg,

hope truth has been revealed.

would you be kind to share the outcome and bit of details of your case. Thank you!!

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