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Ripped off by a Domestic Helper

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ORIGINAL POST
Posted by sp517 15 yrs ago
I had a DH worked only for 5 months and left me without notice, but had taken away most important the DH salary receipts and contracts. Only to receive a notice from the labour dept, complaining that I had never paid her, now the DH is suing me, for over HKD30k.

Of course I informed the Immi dept of DH did not report to work, and made a complaint to police on theft of documents.

Kindly requesting from legal professionals please shed some light on to me, on how things may turn and how to defend my rights, as I feel desperate and sometimes just wanna pay her and forget all the hassle.
 
But feel pretty uncomfortable on the DH ripping me off in a such bad away.

Thanks in advice.

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COMMENTS
RA 15 yrs ago
Did you pay her in cash or bank transfer? If you did bank transfer, then you will have the records. In case of cash it is difficult to prove, what you could ask was how come she worked for 5 months without getting paid at all?

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sp517 15 yrs ago
it was cash. yes u r right bank transfer would have saved me, but it's too late now. Why worked for 5 months without pay is a good point. However at the end of the day how things would turn? DH saying didn' rcvd salary vs paid but DH stolen rcpts. Any employer had a similar situation, thanks if could share a bit of advise, before the labour hearing. By the way she demands money instead of a flight ticket, Can i give her the flight ticket, NOT money?

In a labour tribunal who has the upper hand on such a case, and what could be the final outcome if not settle at the conceliation meeting?

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sp517 15 yrs ago
grytch,

seens u misunderstood my issue.

Had been looking for another DH after 3 months having this DH, bcause she is lousy, absent minded, too slow, no common sense, etc....

Only 2 days after applying for a new DH, this one left without notice. Sure she may have felt it is coming. pretty sure she has been guided by someone on this cunning procedure on how to steal money, with this trick.

My complain is how dare she took the salary rcpts and then suing me for not being paid. She has taken the complete file which i kept new and existing DH contracts, salary rcpts, and other related documents, so now how i am goona prove that i paid her salary?

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azi72 15 yrs ago
Sp517,

Immagine that when you pay your DH by cash you need to withdraw money from the bank, either by ATM machine, or at the counter,if so just go to your bank and they will give the statement of the last 6 month.

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Fixer 15 yrs ago
sp517,


did you file a police report for the theft of receipts and contract after she took off with them?


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Susie1 15 yrs ago
sp517.

sorry about what happened to you, and good luck with the tribunal, any employer who has similar issues has never posted the outcome, it would be interesting to hear.

If you do employ another DH, make sure you pay her through the bank, and if you give her any other monies, get her to sign for it, then lock the receipt book away preferably in a safe, along with any other important documents.

There are some( not all) very devious Dh's out there who I'm sure do this kind of thing regularly to extort money if they can.

If you always be protective of your own rights, lock stuff away, then a good DH will not mind as long as she is treated fairly.

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sp517 15 yrs ago
azi72/inkpot88: can show the bank statements withdrawals exceeding $3580, but may not proove it has paid for the DH. in fact i did care as a member of a family from the start, but dissapointed due to her inability.

DH has no bank account.

Fixer: yes have filed a report in the police about the theft of documents.

probably i give try to talk to her nicely, hope it could be settled in peace, though if her advisor is after money, i may not be able to.

my assumption of the incident is, she new she had to go, and I was about to inform her after applying the new DH, but i think she has been brainwashed by someone on how to screw things to make money from such. because she doesn't want to talk to me, suspect as per advise from the advisor. She wasn't paid for Aug, as she left on 3 Sep. Actually she had been trustworthy though did a very bad job.

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Fixer 15 yrs ago
sp517,


Did you file it when she left and you noticed the items went missing? Was this like a couple of weeks before you received the LD letter? I am assuming that she left your place with the documents and then went to the LD to file her case in which there would have been some time lapsed before the LD taking up her complaint.


There is always the other obvious question as to why she would tolerate working for someone who refused to pay her for 5 months running, surely she would of had you down the LD after 40 days or so or not paying.


Probably not a good idea to talk to her direct now as mediation is already involved.


And why is she suing you for 30K when 5 months salary is just over half of that?

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sp517 15 yrs ago
Fixer:

i had my 3yr son which i have to taken full care after DH dissapeared. And only look into the rcpts 1 week after receiving the LD letter. Then only i filed a case at police.


$3580 X 5 + 1 month wages in lieu of notice$3580 + holiday & rest day (24days) pay $2864 + flight ticket ($3090) + travelling allowance + food allowance


I did not fire her, she left on her own, how can she claim 1 month wages in lieu of notice?

Can i give a ticket and not money?

I want to demand compensation + 1 month wages in lieu of notice for leaving without notice, right?

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Fixer 15 yrs ago
Looks like she's going for the Jackpot! No rest for 5 months?


Can't really offer anything in regards to LD but I hope that common sense prevails in this case.


I think you should ask, about the earlier question I posed. Hell, she might even be reading this now and thinking up an answer to it.


Do you have neighbours who've seen her out and about whilst in your employment. If you hadn't paid her for so long, she's bound to be pulling long faces all the time or maybe grumble to the neighbours'helpers. It's only that you mentioned that she was trustworthy earlier.


Good luck and keep us posted.

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sp517 15 yrs ago
Hi Fixer and grytch,

Once realize her incapability, I was dissapointed, I advised her many times to improve, and had warned her, but never abused her or did anything bad to hurt her.

Occatiuons I told her, I understand that she was doing her best, but that wasn't enough, and gave my concern on her old age (59yrs), probably the reason behind it.

So in my new DH application to the immi dept, i only mentioned current DH will be returning to her country, without mentioning any negative comments on her to avoid a bad record.

By the way i went to LD to inquire about the case and to ask my rights. Filled up a claim form demanding "Wages lieu in notice" however I've been asked to submit a DH contract copy, which the DH stolen. Then I am trying to see if I can get hold of the DH contract from the immi dept and / or the consulate. LD also informed me DH said she doesn't have the DH contract either. In such case without the original (or copy) of the DH contract can the case continue?

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axptguy38 15 yrs ago
"And for psychological reasonings old people are very sensitive about their feelings on what is happening on their sorroundings."


A bit of a generalization, I think. Also I don't really count 59 as that old.

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sp517 15 yrs ago
Unfortunate, have to learn the lessons hard way.

Absoloutely do not trust the DH as things could turn completely opposite without a sign, strange but it is the fact, unpredictable. Once when this happened without knowing it is coming, you know the pain.

Be safe at all times.

Pay to the helper bank a/c.

Keep receipts locked in a safe palce.

Note and get the sign on all expenses paid, leave taken, holidays, time worked, etc..

When somone is in-need of money they will look every possibility to grab it.

Thanks every one for the input and advise.


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Fixer 15 yrs ago
"Absoloutely do not trust the DH as things could turn completely opposite"


Statements a little OTT, I am sure not all DH's are as callous; though I understand your sentiments after what she's put you through. Perhaps you were somewhat unlucky this time round.



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axptguy38 15 yrs ago
"Absoloutely do not trust the DH as things could turn completely opposite without a sign, strange but it is the fact, unpredictable."


As Fixer says this is quite callous. There are plenty of trustworthy DH. You can't judge them all based on the actions of some.

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Susie1 15 yrs ago
As sp517 comments to be ultra carefull pay by bank, and log and file everything concerning a helper in a locked place, is the safest bet, there have been too many threads about even the previously 'reasonable' helpers turning nasty when they get upset and demanding money. I don't think the statement is OTT.

I agree that not all Dh's are that callous, but there are some really devious ones about, and if they are allowed to get away with false claims, they will no doubt brag about it to their friends - ideas how to make money when they are scorned! and also probably be allowed to carry on working for some next rookie employer.

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Fixer 15 yrs ago
Susie,


I was merely implying that you shouldn't define a set of people by one rule of thumb.


I agree that in this particular instance, sp517's DH let him down and abused his trust immensely and sp517 is, understandably, aggrieved by her selfish actions.


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spurtio 15 yrs ago
Grytch, you have been watching too much television. If the Police take someone to court for stealing and fail to get a conviction, the defendant cannot then sue the person who filed the police report in the first instance. Stop talking such complete and utter rubbish.

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spurtio 15 yrs ago
You are speaking utter rubbish where Hong Kong is concerned and have just proven it. There is no such thing in Hong Kong as a District Attorney. All criminal cases in Hong Kong courts are prosecuted by the Department of Justice. Their is no "plaintiff" to be counter-sued.


To OP. Do go to the Police and report that documents have been stolen. They can then investigate. Do not worry, you cannot be counter-sued by your ex-DH because you report the theft, even if the Police were to decide they had the evidence that it was her, the DOJ agreed and it went to court and she was let off. She still cannot counter-sue you.


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bob the builder 15 yrs ago
I think it is good that Grytch adds to the various topics posted on Asiaxpat, but there has to be some accuracy and common sense when contributing.


Too many posts where it is almost impossible to understand what is being posted and if we do understand then it makes very little or no sense.


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spurtio 15 yrs ago
Bob


Agreed. But she must learn to restrict herself to what she actually knows and not fire out these absurd comments as gospel. It doesn't actually help the OP in many cases.

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Ed 15 yrs ago
Lets review the rules of the forums....


Read More

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souffleQueen 15 yrs ago
No grytch they mean "think before you speak" or in this case, think before you post. Please do not use this thread to play the "I'm a helper, I'm being victimized". I often feel like adding a disclaimer to your every post that your views are just your own and should not be held against every other helpers.


~~ To The OP


Sad story, but not entirely new. Many sound advices already given. The truth will come out in the end. If her claims were false, how would she justify being able to live and send money home? If it gets that far, her remittance record could be subpoenaed.


Sometimes it's easier to just give in to the demands, live and learn. However, I know that their are cases where helpers intentionally file court case/claims towards their employer so they could stay in HK land work (illegally) part times. This is the part where helpers need to be shown the door, and rightly so.

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spurtio 15 yrs ago
Souffle Queen


Thank you. You were rather more eloquent than I was. :-)

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souffleQueen 15 yrs ago
Every country has different legal systems. You can research on that and WIKI can tll you more.


Spurtio is correct, what you know is NOT applicable to HK and no matter how much we feel we are right or we think we know the truth, it's not always the case. Truth is a matter of definition, facts are entirely different. Asking you to restrict yourself is a nicer way to tell you to "shut up" , I think. ( Sorry Spurtio if I am wrong.)


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sp517 15 yrs ago
Case has been transferred to the Labour tribunal. This DH always consult another before making decisions. Pretty sure the scam is that "instructor" wants to make money out of my pocket using this DH.

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DiscoBayJames 15 yrs ago
Sp517...sounds like you are getting some good advice here, and have already taken some initial steps towards hopefully bringing this matter to rest, once the case is heard at the LD.


I would not show this DH any mercy, entertain any dialogue on "clearing up this matter, amicably" to avoid a LD hearing and judgement. She is clearly a devious person, who has no conscience (P.S. before any of you proceed to make any judgement of me, I am a veteran of the Philippines, having lived there for 7 years and now happily married to a Filipina...but have seen all the scams !!)


One angle which has not yet been raised here, is to conduct discreet inquiries on what activities (i.e. potential new employment etc) she has been pursuing since she left your household, and whether these activities may be in violation of her terms of stay in HK.


PM me. Thanks.

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sp517 15 yrs ago
Don't really have time to waste on this case in this fouled world.

Thanks DJB for the advice.


DH is hiding somewhere despite trying to find her location. How can I find her address?


LD advised I could file a case against the DH in the SmallClaimsTribunal for 1 month slaray lieu in notice. No time to follow such, and not sure how it may affect the case at LT.


Since DH has a case in LT believe her DH visa is still valid, though I informed Immi about the termination of the contract long ago. Anyone knows what happens to the DH visa on this case?

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spurtio 15 yrs ago
If a DH has a case open with LD, then they are given an extension of stay on their visa so that they can see the case through. Using a false claim as a way to get an extension when they have been released early (otherwise they would have to go back to Philippines) is a path well trodden.

Go to LD and fight claim as outlined above and all will be fine.

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Oski 15 yrs ago
In civil case, the party making an allegation bears the burden of proof. In this case your DH is making an allegation that you did not pay her. She need to come up with legal proof that you did not pay. This is hard, even if you did not pay. If you paid, I doubt your case will ever go to court. You DH would be afraid to go to court. Over her 5 months stay, she saw a weakness in you, (you are almost ready to pay her off.) and tried to pull off a bluff. A judge is far harder to fool or intimidate. If I am wrong and you do go to court, your testimony backed up by the bank statements showing the withdraws is more than enough to win the day.

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Fixer 15 yrs ago
She will also have to explain as to how she managed to survive in HK for 5 months without any income.

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CarmenI 15 yrs ago
I have the similar case as you. The different is, I fired my DH, she rejected to take her final payment and ran away gone missing for 2 days then she came back to clear her stuff still rejected and refused to collect her final payment and air-ticket now she filed the case to LD saying I did not pay her and did not let her take proper holiday in the last 3 yrs when she was with me! But i have all her holiday records, and now she told the LD that she always left home at noon during her day off saying that i ripped her off and trying to claim for 174days of day off payment!!!! But the point is, she was the one requested to renew the contract with me, if I really ripped her off, why she wanted to stay with me!?! And now I'm waiting for attending the court.

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sp517 15 yrs ago
Carmen, did the DH took away your rcpts? If so u must report it to police immediately. Also inform labour about the status, and cancel DH visa at Immi dept. Otherwise you may be still responsible for DH as the employer, this was the impression I have after going through it myself.

It seems somehow the DH has the upper hand in grabing a chunk of the money with such a bogus claim at court. After talking to several DH, heard usually the DH win such cases without going into detail. Not very sure how such happens, and do not want to fall into the same trap. Not worth spending money & time for a lawyer, but don't want to loose it. Without experience no clear idea how things will turn-up. Advice from legal point of view is appreciated.

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hkwatcher 15 yrs ago
sp517

I am going to put in my 2 cents worth here. Because your helper left without notice she owes YOU one month salary! the Labour law clearly states that aside from being summarily dismissed for serious things, there are 2 other ways to terminate from either side. One is 30 days notice and paid for 30 days,the other is 30days salary in lieu of notice. Therefore, if she did not report for work, she owes you 30 days salary!

You owe her one way airfare, annual leave, travel expenses to her home @ $100 per day. You have 7 days from the date of her last day working for you to submit to Immigration her termination notice. The labour tribunal will be scheduled separately. Be prepared at that point to give her all money owed (as stated above) and to sign and witness the documentation. If you haven't spoken to her since she left, this is the only way you can complete the process. Good luck. I doubt if you will be fined if you are prepared to comply with the contractual fees under the law. She can't prove you did not pay and you can show withdrawals from your account on her pay day then it is likely you will not be fined any money.

This brings up an interesting point and that is keeping records of all money and extras paid. Extra copies or entries online are useful as a back up. Scanning of receipts would mean you would have a permanent record and not be fearful of having it stolen.

Best of luck

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CarmenI 15 yrs ago
sp517,


No, she did not take away the record, as I have all the record in safe. I have reported to the police already regarding her missing and sent all the documents to the immi dept already.


Once, she gone missing, I called Labour dept to seek for advise as I knew what is coming, I was already sure that she will place a false claim. But the reply from the Labour dept was very negative, they said that I got nothing to do at that moment, if the helper would not show up again, all I could do is to wait for the DH to file the case to the LD!!!


But lucky that, on the day she came back to pack her stuff, I had a building customer service supervisor in my house to make sure everything went OK, since, I had also told my building that my ex DH cannot have the free access to my apt, as I already took away her access card and she supposed not to have the code to open the lobby door. But somehow, she got the code to get in and showed up at my door with her friend!!!!! And so I asked them to go down to the lobby there to make record of coming in the building and come back again alone ( I mean only my ex helper) there is no way that I would let someone else in my house. As I am pregnant with also my 3 years old little girl at home, I did not want something to happen I just wanted to make sure that, there would be someone knowing that she had entered my house with time record and when she left my place with record as well. And so the building sent someone to stay with me to make sure everything went ok. And my ex helper just ran away rejected to take her final payment when there was a witness. So I guess I'm pretty save that, there is someone can prove that I am willing to pay her but only the DH already has the mind setted to start her own little game by rejecting to receive the final payment.


I just feel bad that, there is no where the employer could go to file a case about the DH when something like this happens, we as the employers could only sit and wait for the DH to sue us, just feel very passive. Talked with the LD about this issue, and they said, unfortunately, at the moment, there is still no such kind of help provide to the employer!! well... what can we do!?!

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sp517 15 yrs ago
Some of you mentioned, to use bank statements showing withdrawals to backup claim that the DH has been paid. I don't think it could prove much, because the withdrawal amount and sometimes the exact timing do not match the DH salary / end of month, and nature of the withdrawals could be anything without proof. Because me and my wife shared the expenses incl DH salary.


As someone pointed a good point, claimant has to prove the case with evidence, if DH to win the case. Believe I do need some evidence (which has been stolen by DH) to back up and show my innocence too.

Really wanted to face this head-on, is there any clever argument or way to show that DH is making a false claim?

DH claims that she doesn't have the DH contract, but in the LD claim, she was able to write down the complete and full name and address, how could this be possible?

Requested police to inform the result of their investigation, seems nothing much has been done. Request to locate DH and inspect the belongings, no results. How can I press them? Possibility of finding the stolen documents are quite low, but don't think police can simply wait and see without any substantial action, despite my repeated requests and complain.

Any advice?


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Fixer 15 yrs ago
sp517,


agreed with the bank withdrawal comments; it doesn't prove anything and furthermore if it did, I think a lot of unscrupulous employers will take note of the situation and use it to take advantage of their DH's.


"DH claims that she doesn't have the DH contract"


1. Immigration would have a copy on file surely?

2. Why would she work without a contract? If she did, then she'd be working illegally and have no right to be in HK at the times she's claimed.


My personal view is that the LD does not want to tie itself to any one side of the argument, just in case if there's any truth in her statements, which can later be proved. But then again that's always how the LD has behaved.

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spurtio 15 yrs ago
sp517, everyone keeps going on about "court" but what will actually happens is you will be asked to go to a mediation session where a mediator from the Labour Department will try and understand both sides of the argument, with both of you in the room. The Mediator will then suggest a way out of the issue without the whole thing having to go to the tribunal/court.


I have been through it with a helper that refused to accept her final payments etc when I fired her, and then claimed to LD that I had thrown her out without paying her (so she could stay in HK). In my case the Mediator made it very clear to the DH that under the circumstances I had every right to fire her, that she should have signed for the money and left. She then made it clear that she could continue to pursue her claim, but since I had very clearly and in front of the Labour Department offered her the money that I needed to pay her, she wouldn't get anything else from the court. The DH finally agreed and I paid there and then, the Mediator witnessed it and she was out of my life. It was a pain and hassle, but very easy.


The system is not loaded in favour of the DHs, as has been suggested. Since she walked out on you, the Mediator will make it very clear to the DH that she in fact owes you a months pay in lieu.


Go with it. Prepare yourself exactly as you have been doing (Fixer has a good point that IMD will have a copy of the Contract) and go along to the Mediation session and get it finished.


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sp517 15 yrs ago
Just rcvd a letter from immi saying the DH contract has been terminated (on Sep 09) as requested. What is that mean? Her DH visa is cancelled? Is she allowed to saty in HK if so? Unable to locate her, how can I find whether she is overstaying her visa? Would it be possible she got another DH contract? Can she get another contract if she has a case at Labour?

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CarmenI 15 yrs ago
The letter from immi is just the reply from the one that you sent to them informing them you have terminate the contract. Probably your helper already went to immi there to extend the visa with the LD case file. Whoever have a case at LD cannot get another contract yet. They have to wait till the case is cleared before moving on.

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hkwatcher 15 yrs ago
sp517

Last day of contract is 9 Sept. and under the law the DH has a right to stay in HK for additional 2 weeks and thenl visa is expired and she must leave HK. If she files a claim against you, she can have her visa extended at immigration. From a immigration point of view, as of 9th Sept you are now finished. As such you can hire another helper witout any problem getting the nre contracts and visa.

Any claim against you from the DH is now with the Labour Dept and not immigration.

This DH cannot process another contract and also have a claim against a previous employer at the same time.

If she is overstaying her visa, this responsibility is not yours, as of 9 Sept you are free of her. It is immigrations problem and if she gets caught, she will go to jail, be deported and cannot work again in HK for overstaying her visa.

Get on with your life now and see what she will do to file a claim. If she does just follow the instructions given. Prepare your final payments she previously refused and make your final settlement at that time.

Meanwhile you are free to find a replaement. Good luck

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sp517 14 yrs ago
Beancurd,

Informed Immi and LD within a week when the DH left.

Now LT interview due next week, followed by the hearing last week of Nov. Not sure how things would be, as feel employers have been exposed to troubles without a cover for protection, as DH can in fact make dubious claims.


This case, DH left home without notice when we were not at home, with all the salary rcpts, simply to file a claim that she got no salary for 5 months. Unbelievable! I am trying to think of what tricks she may use for the case. How can she proove she was not paid? I can't prove b'cause the rcpts were stolen. Can any one help to deliberate how DH would argue, as don't wanna fallen into any trap. Thanks in advance!

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sp517 14 yrs ago
I have been asked to attend the hearing in the LT on Nov 25, however due to "summons to jurors" on the same day by HK court, this appointment has been cancelled. Now I was aksed by the LT to give a next possible date for the hearing, which I informed by Jan 10 to 14, 2011. Despite my request LT has fixed the date to Dec 01, 2010 and now imposing me to attend, but I will not be in HK. I have notified LT since Nov 16, 2010 that I will only be able to attend hearing until after Jan 10, 2011. I cannot attend the hearing on Dec 01, and don't have a rep. to send for the hearing. How can I adjourn the case? What could happen without me attending? If the case heard on this day, can I appeal against the judgement? Pease anyone out there to my help!!!!

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bounty 14 yrs ago
Reminder: there are two sides of a coin.... as I read all the feedbacks in this thread, it seems that everybody jumped into conclusion and giving the sentiment to the OP but have you cited the DH side? Did anybody here know the REAL TRUTH of the story?

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bounty 14 yrs ago
Reminder: there are two sides of a coin.... as I read all the feedbacks in this thread, it seems that everybody jumped into conclusion and giving the sentiment to the OP but have you cited the DH side? Did anybody here know the REAL TRUTH of the story?

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sp517 14 yrs ago
All employers be aware: disregard of the facts and right & wrong, DH always have the upper hand against the employer in most of the dispute cases, given DH knows well how to hang on.

Eg: say employer paid wages, had receipts, and deposited money in the DH bank a/c, terminated DH, didn't work on holidays, gave holiday leave, gave food, gave allowance and etc as to the book. DH can argue at all times on: Wages: forced to sign salary rcpts, salary was paid but forced to return/withdraw could be used against all evidence. Leave & Holiday pay: Worked on holidays but never paid. Extremely careful, DH can go against the facts and win most of the cases against the employer, disregard of the facts.

There is almost no protection for Employers against such abuse by DH. Only I can ONLY think of Video taping every event, for safety in case, find it ridiculous!!

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dansande 14 yrs ago
"DH always have the upper hand against the employer in most of the dispute cases" Horsefeathers! If the DH doesn't have any evidence beyond her own testimony, as with any legal proceeding in HK, her case will be thrown out, end of story. She can say whatever she wants about being forced to pay her salary back but if she doesn't have any evidence the Labour Tribunal will NOT entertain the claim. I challenge you to cite even one case to support the ridiculous assertion that helpers 'always have the upper hand' before the Labour Tribunal.

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sp517 14 yrs ago
This is the true case I witnessed few days ago at the HK LT, which has been running for 5 months.

You may be right to say so, but to the DH arguments how can you prove DH is wrong? Employer cannot win the case unless prove DH is wrong and/or Employer is right. And the Judge uses resonable arguments. law and common sense in his judgement, but in any case it shows how strong the DH's argument, to be run this case for 5 months.

Homely, let me ask you in return tell me the any case that employer won against a DH? Simply take this AsiaEpat forum to find out. All complains are from the employers, isn't that not enough for your sensible mind to convince yourself about the probability?

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dansande 14 yrs ago
I frankly think you don't understand the proceedings you are witnessing, then, because you seem to have trouble witb the concept of 'burden of proof'. The burden of proof rests with the claimant (the helper) in civil cases such as those before the LT. She has to establish her case on the balance of probabilities. This means that the employer doesn't have to prove the DH is wrong. It is up to the DH to prove she is right. Please let me know if the helper wins this case with NO evidence other than her own testimony.

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sp517 14 yrs ago
Hi Dansande, being a victim and been heard the same from others I am trying to bring up the injustice to the audience.

give you an example: EM paid salary, signed rcpts, bank shows check deposited. DH complains signature made by force, shows withdraw of money within days, and argues it has been forced on her. Simply look how hard it is for the EM, and what is your judgement? Of course do not deny sometimes such cases exist. But if it is the fact EM has no way to defence. Any comment? I asked judge the same question; he refused to offer any advice.


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dansande 14 yrs ago
It isn't the judge's role to advise you on how to prepare your case in adversarial proceedings. If you have nothing to hide just tell the truth.

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sp517 14 yrs ago
You misunderstood.

Case is closed.

This is a separate matter: I raised the issue, about the inadequacy, in protecting the EM.

You haven’t answer to my question in the earlier comment.


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dansande 14 yrs ago
So you lost your case then? If that's true then why should anyone believe what you have to say? Are we just supposed to take your word for it? How do we know you aren't just lying about the helper having stolen the receipts?

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bounty 14 yrs ago
meaning: its a case to case basis. it is to be assumed that not only records of helpers are tracked down by the authorities but the employers as well, if an employer is sued by his/her helper LT would check his/her record first (immigration file) if this certain employer has any bad record (often terminates helper) and this is one of the ground that he/she may lose the case.

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dansande 14 yrs ago
It's time to change the title of this thread to: 'Ripped off my domestic helper, lied about it, got caught.'

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sp517 14 yrs ago
No doubt Danshande & Bounty are from a crook clan of DH's who got disturbed much when the naked truth behind the claims have being revealed.


Dear Employers pay utmost care on your DH whom may screw you up and grab a chunk of your money by complaining:


Salary paid has been asked to return back to the employer.

Salary receipts were requested to sign by force.

Worked on holidays but were not paid.


What you will do, when you have not enough evidence to prove your innocence, against a DH who make bogus claim against you?

Please Remember:

Always keep as much as possible and multiple evidence about salary paid.

Use witnesses, audio and video recording of major events.

Keep all these valuable evidence in duplicate an extremely safe 2 different places, NOT allowing the DH to steal it.

Keep records in writing, of every incident in a memo and diary too.


Video recording with voice of all major events is the best of all evidence, to protect Employer from any unexpected conspiracy action by the DH.


It is obvious, Employer’s rights may not have been protected properly on some cases, though not denying bad employers do exist. But the law has to protect both parties in a fair manner.


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sisly 14 yrs ago
Please read what I just posted "DH FALSE STATEMENT" my situation is more worse but I hope you can get more information. In my case, it was a complete lie from the claimant including witnesses. God knows what I been through including my children because of her lies.


Good luck!

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sp517 14 yrs ago
Hi Sisly,

sorry to hear the troubles. Checked your blog "DH FALSE STATEMENT" and will

send you a PM.

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dansande 14 yrs ago
sp517: Just answer a simple question. What was the outcome of your case at the Labour Tribunal?

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sp517 14 yrs ago
no win - no lose mutually agreed settlement. case closed!

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dansande 14 yrs ago
How much did you end up paying?

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Susie1 14 yrs ago
Does that mean this FDH is still able to get work in HK, to extort other employers?

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sp517 14 yrs ago
Susie, that is a concern, if this DH stays behind and screws other EM as well, since she got the experience how to do so!

ALL EMPLOYERS!! Be careful when you hire a DH, and most importantly do the homework, to seal the loopholes once employed.

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sisly 14 yrs ago
Even you double lock your important documents if the DH will tell a bunch of lies to the judge such as force her to sign blank papers, the TL will stretch her statement so the case will keep on going on for months or even a year or more. Sometimes I think this is unfair, when the DH have proof vs employer then she win right away but when the employer have proof against DH then it will take so much time to believe. Why is that so...... does it mean DH are more believable than employer?

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dansande 14 yrs ago
Yes, there is a gigantic conspiracy afoot in Hong Kong led by gangs of clever, manipulative domestic helpers who have infiltrated the Hong Kong police force and judiciary. You people do realize that it's your word against the Hong Kong police and judiciary? Everyone who breaks the law manages to come up with some pathetic excuse and you all are no different.

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sp517 14 yrs ago
Reconnoitre, I

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sp517 14 yrs ago
Reconnoitre, pls get ready for a fight if you let it go free. My rule of Thumb: Video and voice record everything, on the salary paid, leave allowed, holidays, in a proper manner, earliest before you issue any terminatation letter. Do it without lettign her know your intentions, and even without telling her such recording is in place. Or probably you may seek legal advice for your safety. Good luck!!

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Susie1 14 yrs ago
Have a witness there when you pay her wages,etc. get everything you give her signed for. Use a part time helper from Merry Maids or similar until you find another more reliable one by recommendation.

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sp517 14 yrs ago
Reconnoitre, not sure if yr DH has been reading these blogs, for god sake hope NOT. I smell something flat wrong here , and no kidding u r heading to troubled waters, if you don't find proper and safe way to terminate, as in case if your DH wanted to give a fight, as she has nothing to loose.


listen: if u think nothing will go wrong u should be lucky, in case if:

1) you will receive a letter from LD, once she is gone, that the DH has filed a case against u, what will u do?

2) claims could be: no payment for xx months. no holiday pay, asking flight ticket, wages lieu in notice, over time pay.

3) what will you do if DH say, you gave salary but took it back, she was asked to sign rcpts by force, no pay during holiday work, no food to eat, no allowance,..etc....

4) If i understand it right, DH is pregnant, if so most importantly u will be in big TROUBLE if u terminate a DH because she is pregnant. Believe use such as the reason is WRONG.

5) even with a witness you r not going to be safe. DH can say the witness is something made by the employer, what will u do?


this is why i said it is NOT safe to let the DH go. Someone can taught the DH on how to screw things, which is usually the case, and that crook will do all necessary to teach the DH on legal advice, and share the reward at the end.

Believe me, I learned the hard way too as same as other employers writing similar blogs here. Pls check the blogs here and u will see most of the employers having fallen into the same trap.

DH can keep continuing this, as it allows them to extend their stay in hk, but real hell for the employer. DH knows this pretty well.

Even the DH win or loose doesn't matter for them, they can get away without paying. That how it goes.

if u wanna discuss on this in detail drop me a pm.

Sorry i don't wanna scare you, at all. Simply getting the message accross, as i do not wish to see any employer fallen into this trap.

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sp517 14 yrs ago
Recon, pls don't get me wrong, this simply an advise to shut the loopholes or leave it open if u think u can face it.

My previous DH left days b4 i terminate her, never expect she would do something bad, though to my surprice i was wrong. she hanged so hard to it, screwed it with all tricks as said b4, and that's how it goes.

For me, i learned my lessen and paid for it, sorry no 2nd chance for the DH.

During my case, met an employer under similar but nore serious case running for 6 months, and still on, good luck to him who wanna good fight since the amount is not that small. i had enough.

hope u are safe,

prevention is always better than cure!!

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grytch 14 yrs ago
This thread is "LIKE A BRIDGE OVER TROUBLED WATER"

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BumpyDog 14 yrs ago
This thread is hilarious, thanks for the laugh, Reconnoitre!

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