Tricky DH situation

We are new to HK. Hired a DH from Sri Lanka, who started Nov. 1st. Felt very positive about her. During the hiring process she asked if she could take leave during Christmas and we agreed (at the time 2 weeks).

Series of events have transpired, and we are in a pickle as to what is the best next course of action.

First, does it make any difference as to whom breaks contract with who? If I ask to leave are our responsibilities any different then is she says she is leaving?

Here are my big concerns. She is smart (not as smart as she thinks, but smart)

When it came to buying her ticket to go home, she gave me huge dance around with regards to the ticket, and eventually bought it without me agreeing to price etc. Then she asks for 3 weeks off, which we give her in kindness (and as off now it was all paid). She then tells me the ticket price changed and produces "an itinerary" showing change price. I knew something was a miss so I gave her the benefit of the doubt but asked for a receipt. Since she finished contract, we only had to buy a portion of the ticket. She did not tell me that her previous employer had given her money. I happen to have the previous employers number and called to ask for payment to us for one way of the round trip ticket and was advised that DH had already been paid. So, she is gaming us for:

1 part of round trip ticket as well as price of ticket. Let alone that after 1 1/2 months she is getting 3 weeks paid vacation!

I sat down to have a conversation with her before she left, and she tells me she thought I was going to pay her more. Bullocks! The contract states what we are paying her.

We had agreed to clear finances up when she returns. Now, I am not sure I even want her (though her work is very good, that is the conundrum). Needless, I want all of this documented and to have a very stern conversation.

Since she left mid-December she has yet to receive December salary. When I found out that I gave her 5000HKD for a round trip ticket I told her the one way would be deducted from her salary. I wrote the math down for her. Then the issue of ticket price needs to be factored. In essence her December salary will be small. I need her to agree to all of this and not use this against us. Should I go to the immigration office or anywhere else to have it documented? She backed out of me doing a direct deposit of pay to her account. I dont want to get too crazy either cause her work is good and if we have to suck it up with her then we need to still have some relationship. But I dont want to get burned even further. Can I also deduct wages for 1 of the weeks of the 3 that she took off? Also, dont want her to create any issue if we let her go and we need a new DH. If we break contract what are our remaining liabilities to her?


any advise appreciated.

If I can't trust someone who's living in my house then they have got to go. Understand she's been with you for only 1.5 months. Chance of her becoming more honest is not good! But you need to make that decision yourself.


If you want to honour everything you promised and terminate the contract then you owe her one months pay, a ticket home and some travel expenses. With regard to vacation pay, however, they are entitled to 7 paid days AFTER the first year of service. So you were not obligated to pay her for the time she took off. Hope it works out.

Hi Mumbai.

Sorry about your situation, have you any signed documents for any of the money you have passed over to her-- for anything, wages up to date, air tickets etc, because if she is money orientated she will probably try to get more out of you by going to a tribunal. She was not in her contract entitled to a paid holiday within the first 3 months of her contract, only 7 days at the end of the first year.

She has crossed over the line of being regarded as a 'good employee',and is damn right cheeky, Contact Imm by email and find out exactly what your requirements are to end her employment, with any supporting docs. of money etc you have already paid out.

Plane ticket - It clearly states that the employer is liable for the ticket. So, you shouldn't have needed to foot the bill for the ticket SHE bought. It isn't your problem unless you had agreed to it. You could have simply looked up the price and given her what was fare. We do that with our helpers. They have to choose (a) sum of money based on my quote or (b) the ticket which we bought. This has been advised by the agents we use.


She is by no means an honest person. And you're obviously new to the DH game/employment situation. Give her the boot and find someone more honest and this time, you need to know/learn very quickly your way around domestic helpers so that you're not taken for a ride.


As far as paid vacation, I was told otherwise that you have to pay/give based on what work time has already been done. This is standard practice by employment agencies. So even if she's worked for two months, you have to do the Maths for it = No of days worked/No of days in a year X 7


Every penny that is handed over should be documented in writing signed and noted by both parties otherwise, you're looking at a lot of trouble as Susie1 has mentioned if you don't pay up. Also, any warning MUST be written, a verbal warning does not legally count. I sit with my helper (if new) and conduct a monthly review (noting strengths and weaknesses) which includes areas I want her to improve. She signs off it as I do. Any serious misconduct e.g. leaving the door wide open and unlocked while we were out and leaving the house attended during this time, is written as a warning for negligence and signed and noted by both parties too.


Move on from this experience and Learn from it. She knows the game better than you do. So in that way, she is smart(er).

Dear Mumbai,

You have problems on several levels. Under the Labour laws here the worker is not entitled to annual leave until after 2 months, then it is retroactive. Calculated at seven days per year. So divide that by 12 for the amount of annual leave days.

The first three months of the contract a worker takes a Statuatory holdiay but does not get paid for it.

Under the contract, the employer is responsible for a one way airticket home. So the previous employer should have paid that. You will too if you terminate her contract early or even if she finishes with you. Other trips (including airfare) are not your responsibility.

If a worker has finished a 2 year contract with an employer and gone immediately to a new employer, it is not unreasonable that she would want to go home. Wouldn't you want to see your family at least once every 2 years? However, the cost of said trip ought to be her expense or you can work out a loan between you.

It makes no difference who terminates the contract first. The rules apply to each of you equally.

If you terminate her contract early, you give her 30 days notice (or she gives it to you) and at the end of that time you pay her what she is due, plus other expenses listed in the contract OR you pay her the one month up front and she is gone that same day.

It takes 2 months to process a new contract unless you find someone who is a finisher or is allowed to transfer within HK and no need to go back to home country.

For the details of what you need to pay, read the bottom of the first page of your green contract, it states clearly what you owe to her. She has one too and she can see for herself the same information.

Good luck

Thank you all for your thoughts and advice. Would anyone be able to refer an agency who could handle this for us, ie good at getting rid of person without issue? We actually hired her directly from asiaxpat listing. Any help appreciated.

Thanks

Asian Charm in Sheung Wan

go to trumpline consultancy in central near soho

We had a similar situation with Sri Lankan driver - they are very smart when it comes to money issues and rights, I would suggest you go to the labour department aswell they will determine all parties rights and monies due etc...........

Did she turn up at all after her holiday? OR when do you expect her? I smell a rat....

lisasturmey: Really, Sri Lankans are "very smart when it comes to money issues and rights"? Maybe it was just him you know. Way to be prejudiced...

If you do not handle the DH issue professionally I can assure you, you are heading for the trouble waters, and be prepared to pay the price, because DH are smart and know how to frame the employer. Present law protects the interests of the DH well, and NOT the employer.

For sure you already feeling the heat now, and looking someone else to handle it for you, though it may be bit late to close the loop holes, as DH knows well how she could play the rules of the game if heading to a fight with litigation.

Let me tell you whether you fire the DH or not she still can bring you down to the knees, if you were not well prepared for the unexpected.

Check the blog “Ripped off by a Domestic Helper” and it will give you the inner sight of the issue.

You should seek legal advice, and keep the documents, conversations audio & video recorded, prepare for the worst if you want to be safe or learn it the hard way!!

Good luck!!

"Present law protects the interests of the DH well, and NOT the employer."


given the situation of many FDH in Hong Kong, that's so utterly wrong as a statement, it's hard to see where to start.


the point is, if you hire an employee, then you have to do your housekeeping and learn how the game works. it doesn't matter whether it's a company staff or your own FDH. it's basic common sense

Dear Mumbai,


Over the years I have hired three DHs from Asiaxpat, one of whom never showed up despite us waiting for 6 weeks when she returned home at the end of her contract. When we finally tracked her down her reason was she had got a better offer! Regarding the other two, neither lasted over three months, far too cocky, lazy or dishonest. I've learnt my lesson and will only hire from an agent now. Yes it is more expensive for the DH having to fork out exhorbitant fees in her home country, but that usually ensures she will try her best when she gets here, not take the employer for a ride and wait to be fired, the employer then having to pay one months salary and her air fare.

Quite often agents may know of DHs who have been terminated for no fault of their own, i.e. elderly employer as died, employer can't afford to keep them anymore or the employer is emigrating. In such circumstances you can make application to Imm Dept for her to start working for you immediately on the assurance you will give her leave within the first year of her employment. This happened with my current DH who will be renewing her contract with me again very soon.

I wish you well with your situation.

Yes, please check out the thread "Ripped Off by a Domestic Helper" and you will find out that sp517 tried to rip off a domestic helper and got caught.

Dansande, I think you understood things wrongly, it was a no win no loose result, which means, nobody had enough evidense, and the FDH did not win either.

nshande: better please stop your foolish, uneducated, useless comments, you r talking nonsense!

cookie09: my statement may be bit over exaggerated. In any case, let me know, if you ever heard of a case filed by a DH, ended in employers favour? Is that means 100% employers are in fault? Tell me which DH didn’t win their case against the employer? Don’t you smell there is something flat wrong in the system, which I strongly believe, it has given unprecedented protection to DH against the employers, which now freely abused by the Unscrupulous DH !!

Mumbai: sorry for distraction of the issue. You should be the best one to handle the issue yourself being the employer knowing everything yourself pretty well. It is possible to handover to a representative, but I see it as a disadvantage if it goes to a court case. Of course it gives you bit of space for other things, though it may most probably end up after the DH chunk off a bite of your pocket once again, and you have to pay the representative as well.

I would suggest you to get a trustworthy friend or relative who could give you a hand and moral support during this time, which would eventually help you to get control of things much smoother way possible. Look for leagal advice from a laywer on how to make it close down safe, would be the best.

end of saga. She came back and I have let her go. All papers signed.

Susie 1, keep deluding yourself that settling isn't losing.