Posted by
HKM3
14 yrs ago
In November we hired a new helper. About a month later my wallet (expensive) disappeared with about HK 7K in cash sometime between Friday evening and Saturday afternoon. The helper is off on Saturdays, but would have had plenty of time to take it prior to her departure in the morning. Because we had another helper and house guests in the house I couldn't make any accusations. Last weekend my other helper's wallet went missing, with the bulk of her salary in it. It also went missing on the morning that the other helper took off. The helper who lost the wallet is quite certain (but not 100% so) that she had the wallet in her bag the evening prior.
We are also having issues with the dry cleaning delivery man who says he hasn't been paid, yet I have left money for him to be paid - and the helper says she has paid him.
Perhaps in both cases the wallets have really been lost. Perhaps the dry cleaning man is absentminded.
Perhaps I am being terribly naive. Still, given that their is a shred of doubt, I can't accuse that one helper.
Still, in all of our years of living abroad we have never once had things stolen or missing.
Any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
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HKM3.
You have a dilema here, it sounds like somebody is taking wallets, and not paying the dry cleaning man then lying!, saying they have.
Has anything ever gone missing, not been paid by the helper you have had the longest?
Do the helpers get on together? there is always the slight possibilty one is 'setting up' the other one, so that you will fire them.
Apart from setting up hidden cameras, which is expensive to do around your home.
The only way I could suggest, to find out who is the thief, is to set a trap, with marked notes, do it while you are around, if the notes go missing, ask them both about it, and ask to do a search, the guilty one will probably go a bit hysterical at being found out, if you find any marked notes on one of them call the police straight away and let them deal with her, if you try to just terminate the one you think is the thief, then she may find another employer and the thieving will go on.
The helper who is stealing from you will probably have done it with their last employer, maybe got away with it, maybe they just agreed to fire her to get rid.
One less thief who is dealt with by the police and charged and deported is a great plus for the rest of the honest helper community and HK.
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HKM3
14 yrs ago
Susie, the one I suspect started in November. The second one only started a month ago, so wasn't here at the time of the first theft, and it is the second one's wallet that has gone missing.
The first helper is also trying to borrow money from the second, and also the driver - to one she is saying that it's a family medical emergency, to the other she is saying that she owes money on some other loan.
This is killing me because I think the answer is right in front of me....but there is always doubt.
I spoke to the previous employer just yesterday (I finally called the reference), and while they never noticed any obvious theft...in hindsight they are now wondering about a necklace that disappeared as well as a child's purse containing the equivalent of about $600HKD.
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it is difficult to pinpoint who's who
my advise is to treat everyone as a suspect until you've narrowed it down. i would suggest then:
1. keep your valuables under lock and key
2. be vigilant over valuables and where you keep them
3. keep your bedroom locked (this is where you hide your valuables right?) and keep it off limits to them unless you are in the room. have your room cleaned only when you are around
4. keep a log book i.e for the delivery man. if you hand over cash to one of your helpers, ask them to sign they have received it for payment, and ask them to have the delivery man sign it too.
5. if you have two helpers, it would be great if each of them have a locker or cabinet with their own lock and key.
6. there is a pccw service like a nanny cam. you may consider this
7. inspect belongings they bring out of your home before they leave for their days off (i heard from a filipina friend that is norm for domestic helpers back in the Philippines)
all of these may be strict measures but until you determine what's going on, you just have to ensure that anything of valuable isn't displayed so that anyone wouldn't be tempted to steal them
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Sit down with the suspect and tell her what has happened. Gauge her reaction. Does she start crying or is she horrified? Say that you hate to ask but did she steal the things.
Most people can't lie to your face in those situations.
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actually why bother? you obviously dont feel comfortable with the new one. fire her! right away! it doesnt matter whether she is a thief or not, you are not comfortable anyway
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Hmmm...tough situation. Cookie, that is easy to say but these are people's lives and jobs we are talking about and it needs to be dealt with in a reasonable manner. These are people's lives and decisions cannot be made so quickly when it comes to people's lives. However I do agree with you that it does come down to comfort and with no proof at all, I think the fair thing would be to give her ample time. Let her know that things are not working out and that you will let her go....but before you go forth and do that just be sure that there isn't another explanation that can be had...because it would be a horrible thing if you get another helper and things were still going missing....I would even suggest setting her up and see if something goes missing....for example leave some money in a place where u know only she will be present and cleaning ...
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Tune
14 yrs ago
I would set a trap with a hidden camera; perhaps with some outside help. Otherwise, fire her. Stop being soft at your family's expense. Today wallets- tomorrow who knows?
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Sounds like she has loans to pay off somewhere. Happens a lot with helpers and if she is stealing then you need to deal with it right away. Otherwise, it will only get worse.
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EB
14 yrs ago
Fot the matter of the dry cleaning matter of payment , there should be some kind of receipt if payment is made. And for the advise Helper, if your going to search for any lost items make sure you have a witness or else is just your word against hers.
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I was in the same situation.
I left a trap, and she took it (while we went to Church!).
She then denied everything po-faced, until my wife called the police. She then broke down, admitted everything and begged for forgiveness. The police were very helpful and ready to haul her off to the station, where she would have remained until her court hearing, from which she would have gone straight to prison.
We thought that was a little steep, so fired her derriere and got shot of her. Unfortunately there is no middle ground where we could have had her banned from coming back (to steal from a new employer). It was either prison or go.
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waverunner - you should have let her go to prison... it would save future employers a lot of trouble and i'm sure they will appreciate it.
it will also give the helper a lesson because they will do it again and again, and when they get caught, they will muster all tears, their puppy eye look and sob story to get out of a sticky situation.
the very least that you could have done is to have the domestic helper be included in the police blotter so she would have a record.
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As I said, no middle ground was available. She would have no record unless I had her arrested.
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HKM3
14 yrs ago
Waverunner, what sort of trap did you set up? I don't know what wouldn't be obvious at this point - especially as I've already advised everyone that the next time this any theft happens I will have the police immediately involved and will be certain to press charges making it impossible for the thief to work in HK again. (When I said this, by the way, the one I suspect immediately said..."so go ahead and arrest me").
Thanks.
Edited to ask, and what was your similar situation?
Thanks again.
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Tune
14 yrs ago
Have a spycam installed in a room and set a trap, a wallet or a little cash.
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@HKM3 - oh wow. with a comment like that how did you hold your composure?!
sounds like shes wanting to be fired...
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Hi HKM3, your helper sounds like a right cheeky madam! almost admitting then goading you to call the police, you should have done!!! You will really have to watch your possessions now, she will not stop thieving. The trust is lost now, and you are going to feel you have to watch your possesions all the time, the atmostphere is going to be so strained, very difficult.
If she does it again, you must report her, don't worry about her getting a police record--she has earned it!, and don't worry about any effect it might have on her family, if she really cared about them she would not steal.
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The thing is that there is no definitive proof. I'm not familiar on the laws and how lawful it is to dismiss a worker but part trust is necessary in any emloyee/employer relationship regardless of occupation. If that is breached, then the employer would need to sit down with the employee and simply state that they are not happy with their performance and give her the one month salary or even just a little more to get her to go quietly and send her off. Have her sign a termination sheet that she received her severence and money for the plane ticket etc...It will save you plenty of headaches and worries over keeping her there.
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Hi Prasat, Terminating her is the easy option, but then some other employer will end up with this thief, and the FDH will get lots of trips home she doesn't deserve,in between contracts, and in between stealing from future employers! just firing her would be rewarding her for being a thief!!!
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I see what you are saying Susie and that is true. But the reality is that there isn't any true proof.....so is it really worth the hassel to try to obtain such proof? It might just be easier to just let her go. However I suppose that is a decision for the employer to decide.....afterall its very tough to have a person in your house that you suspect is a thief. Who knows what else she does in addition to that...
At the very least, terminating her contract and not giving her any recommendation might make it a little more difficult to get another employer, but what do I know? lol. I'm having a hard enough time trying to find an employer for a fabulous worker with good recommendations....so how much harder would it be for a thief with no recommendation from her last employer?
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When faced with a suspected thief who says "go ahead and call the police"you need to take action for proof. It may take come time, but a thief will always steal again.
Get a web cam and use it. Either take a photo of the numbers on your money or somehow mark the bills so you know which ones are yours for proof. When the person it caught out, then you MUST call the police. The oný way a they will have a record to follow them is if the case goes through the court. Then there is a permanent record that will preclude them from working in HK again. Without the prosecution of the case, they will simply move to another employer and do the same thing all over again.
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PERHAPS there is a SHRED of doubt! seems like you are pretty sure having weighed up all the other possibilites and the circumstances of each 'theft'. find the proof and hand the helper over to the police. getting rid of the helper quickly is not the right way, how angry would you be with your helper's previous employer if they simply fired the helper when they found out the helper had been stealing from them...and then you?
from the reaction you quoted earlier it seems that the helper does not fear the police as she rates the employers as a soft touch who will probably take the easy way out and just terminate the contract and pay off the necessary amount.
hmm, quite a good financial plan really; steal money off the employers and then wait for the payoff/bonus. are you sure she's not in international banking and finance?
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> HKM3
As was said by another poster, mark or photograph the notes.
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Even if you mark the notes, she can still claim to the police you gave them to as part of her salary or for the groceries. The nanny cam seems the way to go.
And I agree with Susie1, you should prosecute if you catch this person out as the reason why she has been able to do it to you (if she has) is because some other employer took the easy way out...i.e. not my problem anymore.....for her to inflict her dishonesty on another family.
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