I'd really appreciate some advice. My helper has been employed by us since Nov 2006. She's never been great at her job, but she was good with my kids. There have been incidents (incessant calls from loan sharks, etc) but we have worked through them. Now I need to go back to full time work as a teacher and she is just not able or willing to do her job. She calls in sick every few days, for instance. I have always paid her for sick days, and for holidays, and also for the five weeks in the summer when we go back to the UK. However, last summer I believe she got a part-time job somewhere else. She certainly didn't clean my house - but she did live in it and run up a $1000+ electricity bill. We are about to go back to the UK for the summer again and I was planning to hire someone else, and give her notice to work out while we are away so someone new can start on our return. I was just going to pay her a months' wages in notice - do I need also to pay severance pay? I don't feel she has done anything to deserve it. She doesn't do half the jobs we ask her to do - to the point my elderly parents end up doing the cleaning when they come to stay from the UK. I don't bear her any ill will, but i just don't want her to work for me any more.
Advice please!
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from the labor department
An employer and his helper alike may terminate the contract prior to its expiry by giving not less than one month's notice in writing or by paying one month's wages to the other party.
both the employer and the FDH shall give the Director of Immigration notice in writing within seven days of the date of termination. A copy of the other party's written acknowledgement of the termination shall also be forwarded to the Director of Immigration. It is essential to state the exact date of termination and information such as the reason of termination will be useful.
go to this site - http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/faq_fdh.htm#9
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if you are not happy with her... give her whatever is owed to her including severance pay.
put everything in writing, itemize the monies she will receive, ask her to sign to acknowledge letter and most importantly have a neutral witness counter sign it.
if it is also possible, to include a statement with her acknowledging her that she has received all monies relating to previous salaries and at what amount. this is to clarify that the employer does not owe her and back wages.
make sure to keep copies, have signed documents sent to immigration, labor and phil. consulate to be doubly sure.
cut the ties as soon as possible it will be less painful
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Have a look at this guide, from labour department. It tells you how to work out long service pay, what letters to write and examples of such letters and documentation of all final payments (samples in the Annex). If you follow this then it will be plain sailing.
http://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/public/wcp/FDHguide.pdf
Good luck
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Thanks for that. I do find the severance pay calculation rather complicated though:
[(Monthly wages x 2/3) x reckonable years of service].
We pay $5500 a month. Multiply that by 0.66 for four and a half years, that works out as $16,335. Can that possibly be right? I just don't have that kind of money.
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You can calculate on the current wage which will go down a bit.
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$5500 is the current wage.
It appears severance pay and long service pay are both the same. So, seriously, I own her $5500 for her last month and $16,335 for severance pay? I had never even heard of severance pay before today. This is a bit of a shock. For a start, I'm unemployed. Even if i do get a job, this will be more than a month's wages for me.
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Used to be HK$3580 and now government raised it by $160 to the recent one which is HK$3740.
HK$5500 is what you are paying her of your own free will, not set by the government and of course, generous employers can pay long service/severance payments according to their own wishes, but not less than what the government sets up.
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Long service and severance are not the same. They are just calculated in the same way.
You do not owe her long service pay since she has not worked for you for at least five years.
You owe her severance pay only if you are dismissing her due to redundancy. If you are dismissing her because she is not doing her job properly, and are planning to employ another helper, you do not owe her severance pay.
You owe any vacation days plus one month's wages from the day of dismissal. You may also ask her to work that month.
Source: Labour Department FDH guide - http://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/public/wcp/FDHguide.pdf
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Thank you, axptguy38 - your reply seems to make sense, because obviously I would keep her on if she was doing a good job, so it seems unreasonable to reward someone financially for poor work performance. I find the labour department's guide very confusing, but I will ring to check with them before I do anything. It seems reasonable to me to pay a month's wages, holiday pay, an air ticket home plus travel expenses, and of course to find her a new job.
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Hate to say this.... but check again with the labour dept.
I had to pay severance when I terminated due to poor attitude and work when we suddenly had 3 loan sharks making threatening calls.
And we had to use the last salary paid for calculation.
I was told that severance is paid for past work and everyone would use that reason to avoid a payout - and if work was an issue then I should not have kept her more than 4 years.
The only time severance is not payable is if SHE terminated the contract for whatever reason.
Do check topofthe hill. Wish you the best.
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Good info dcameron. In any case please let us know topofthehill.
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If you are terminating your helper (especially one with loan sharks after her),then I would change you locks the minute she is gone,and let any security know you are going away for the summer. Also when sending in the termination papers to Immigration, get them to send you an acknowledgement of receipt of them, so that if loan sharks contact you or even knock on your door you can show them she is gone and hopefully they will leave you alone.
Have all the moneys due etc witnessed and signed for by her when she goes, and photocopy it to Immigration then she can't claim she wasn't 'given what is due".
I wouldn't let her work her notice out while you are away, she might get vindictive at being sacked and take things. Give her notice and moneys etc and an air ticket and travel expenses door to door, in leui of working notice.
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Thanks everyone - got a definitive answer from the labour dept: As I have employed her for less than five years, and as i will be replacing her, I do not owe severance payment. I do owe her the usual wages, notice period, holiday pay owing, and a reason for her termination.
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Top of the Hill - I agree with Susie1 - don't give working notice for helpers with money problems. Pay her, get her to sign the docs and have her leave immediately. You rather pay her the extra month notice than have her work in your home another month. Make sure you organise a locksmith to change your locks immediately after she goes. I've heard too many horror stories about helpers from friends (including child abuse that had to be reported to the police), so don't give her any opportunity!
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krips
13 yrs ago
First of all has the maid been with you for less than 5 years or more?
If 5 years plus there is the matter of Long service payment.
If not it is a simple rpocedure - one month's notice or one month pay in lieu of.
Suggest you look at your contract it indicates termination ?
Suggest you draft a letter and than visit the Labour Dept for their guidance to confirm if it is in order and have the duplicate signed by the DH when you present her with it and have the cheque ready for the amount (make a photo copy of the cheque and also have her sign it).
Have a friend present when you verbally inform her and give her the written notic and cheque. If she makes any trouble or excuses (do not soften up). If she refuses to sign the letter and cheque photocopy -- do not give her the cheque but tell her the person present will act as witness to her refusal and have her pack up and leave your premises in front of your friend.
Have a note ready stating what your friend has witness and have him sign it in from of her if necessary. Do not wait until latter to get your friend's witness statement.
Be Heartless because people who are sincere are always taken advantage of.
Good Luck - krips.
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One thing to be wary off (and I might be misinterpreting this) but you said in your first post that she frequently calls in sick which suggests that she is not actually living with you but may be living out. You also said that she lived in whilst you were away last year- also implying she is not normally resident at your home. If I am correct and you don't have immigrations approval for her doing so then she could raise this and possibly use this against you if there is any dispute between you over her final payments.
You said in your post:
"She calls in sick every few days, for instance. I have always paid her for sick days, and for holidays, and also for the five weeks in the summer when we go back to the UK. However, last summer I believe she got a part-time job somewhere else. She certainly didn't clean my house - but she did live in it and run up a $1000+ electricity bill".
My apologies if I have misinterpreted what you wrote.
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