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live in helper spending nights out

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ORIGINAL POST
Posted by doanni 14 yrs ago


Hello, I'd like to know if a live-in helper can spend the night out. I mean, if she asks to go out and it is ok with us and we say yes, is that illegal?

She is now asking more and more often and we normally say yes.

One time we said no but she still did it. Several times she has spent nights out without telling us.

I am not happy with her for these and some other reasons, but the fact is that she is still with us.

The doubt now is whether a live-in maid has to always sleep in your house (as you provide accommodation and are responsible for her somehow).

Thanks in advance.


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COMMENTS
axptguy38 14 yrs ago
She may definitely stay out during the night of her rest day.


Otherwise technically she has to be "resident" in your domicile. I would personally interpret this as "most" nights spent in your place. One shouldn't be able to say she is living somewhere else. That is, she can't just spend one night a week at your place for example. Grey area I suppose.


Immigration may interpret it differently.


If you are unhappy with the situation you should speak with her about it.

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Susie1 14 yrs ago
A live in helper is supposed to live in the employers house, but on her day off she may stay elsewhere as the time is her own.

She is being disobedient if she is spending nights out without telling you, do you know where she stays or what she does when she is not in your house? she could be out on the town picking up men for all you know.

Does she report for work after she has been staying out at a reasonable time, and is staying out effecting her work.

As you are her employer and responsible for her accomodation and health, you could get into trouble for allowing her to stay out.

I think you need to start asking her a few more questions, she is not allowed to work anywhere else except the employers house, just in case she is doing part-time work at night.

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doanni 14 yrs ago
Thanks for your replies.

I don't think she is doing part-time work. I think she just has friends in a boarding house, and goes out with them and spends the night there. This is what she tells me and I believe her.

I was not happy when I found out she was doing it without telling us or asking if we were ok with it . I was not happy when I told her (one time only and she has spent many many nights out) to not do it, and she still did it. We told her all this.

She has been coming back at a reasonable time, but the last few times, she's been showing up at around 10 am which to me it is a little late (this happens during the week, she goes out on a Wed, or Thu...).

I was just concerned that we could get in trouble if we allowed her to spend nights out, but according to axptguy38, that's not the case.

In any case, the 24 hours off could start on Sat night, and that would be the night when she can be out, or on Sun morning, so Sun night is the night she can be out. Spending Sat and Sun nights out makes her day off longer than 24 hours, to be technically correct. And, at least, I thought the one who decides which one of the nights she spends out, should be me, not her. Am I wrong on this too?

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Susie1 14 yrs ago
You as the employer should decide which night your helper stays out, and technically it should be only one night per week,. If she has been pleasing herself and going out, then coming back at 10am, that is not good either. I think it sounds as if she is the one in control and not you. I don't know how long she has been with you, but if she is like this now, then things can only get worse, she obviously doesn't listen to you, she sounds like she is a rebelious teenager with her attitude.

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axptguy38 14 yrs ago
I don't think it is an issue if she stays out on her "free" night plus one extra night a week. By any reasonable criterion, she still "lives" at your place.


She should be able to perform during her working hours. How she manages to be ready for work is her business, but of course if she is out partying all night she may not be able to perform.


You should talk to her about it and say that you are not happy with the situation. Explain why. Tell her you trust her to be responsible but she needs to behave properly and ensure she can do the work.


I don't like curfews. A curfew implies she cannot be trusted. She's not a child. Better to have a dialog between adults.



As Susie1 says, you are the boss. She needs to abide by your rules. Your rules should be reasonable and not too restrictive. If you cannot come to an arrangement that works for both of you perhaps it is time to look for a new helper.

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axptguy38 14 yrs ago
"Nothing is illegal if she likes to sleep to her friend's boarding house as long as you agree. "


If she sleeps there every night she no longer lives in the employer's residence. That is illegal.

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mike204 14 yrs ago



Beancurd,

Cara is correct. It is illegal for FDHs to live out unless approval was given before April 1st 2003. Just because you got away with doing so doesn't mean others will too. FYI Read More


Q29: Can an FDH live away from his/her employer's home?



A29:


No. An FDH should work and reside in the employer's residence in accordance with Clause 3 of the Standard Employment Contract (ID407). The employer is required to provide the FDH with free accommodation as per the standard specified in the "Schedule of Accommodation and Domestic Duties" of the employment contract.


(Employers who have obtained the Director of Immigration's approval before 1 April 2003 to let their FDHs live out can continue to do so, so long as they continue to employ FDHs without a break of more than 6 months.)

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axptguy38 14 yrs ago
"You also keep saying everything is illegal about live out. "


Because it is. Doesn't matter how you try to twist things around. Living out is always illegal in all cases unless the employer has the grandfathered exemption from before 2003.

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lagrue 14 yrs ago
I think the contentious issue here is the difference between the letter of the law versus its enforcement. It is technically illegal to live out and the penalties are stiff but it seems from beancurd's write up and what I have heard from fillipino drivers the enforcement is lax.....still this does not mean it is legal, it just means that currently or on a case by case basis the government is choosing to look the other way but this could change at any minute and then all those who employ live out helpers would be in a whole lot of trouble.....

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roger9999 14 yrs ago
Beancurd is so correct . If you take every arrangement by the letter of law , everything is "illegal"..... There are so very many FDH who live out in HK and I also defy anyone to acknowledge a FDH who was sent back to their country by HK Immigration Department solely for "living out" .

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axptguy38 14 yrs ago
So you're also recommending breaking the law?

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axptguy38 14 yrs ago
Further to what cara says, you are also putting your helper in an ethical dilemma. How many helpers would say "no, ma'am, that is illegal and I can't," in the face of an employer who says they should live out.


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adele78 14 yrs ago
If your helper is going out for the evening and coming home in time to get a decent amount of sleep and be fresh for her duties, then good on her for having some free time and a social life. If she's regularly too tired to perform her duties well or is coming in a little later each day and seeing how far she can push it with you or if you think she's involved in illegal activities (such as work on the side) then it's your prerogative and responsibility as an employer to talk to her about it and tell her what you require from her as an employee. I think it's reasonable to say she's welcome to go spend an few hours with friends nearby, but on a work night to ask her to be in by a certain time and be ready for work in the morning at a certain time is not unreasonable.

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vlr 14 yrs ago
I'm not sure that "staying out" and "living out" are the same things.


Our previous helper left the house one night at 11 p.m. and her phone mistakenly called my husband. All he could hear was club music in the background. She got home at 3 am. During that time, I called the labour department--I think they have a 24-hour hotline--and the man explained to me that domestic helpers aren't obliged to stay at the house (I'm not talking about living, but the freedom of movement). They are free to come and go. So no law was broken, only trust.


Call the Labour Department if you're unsure about anything. They are actually really helpful.

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axptguy38 14 yrs ago
Well, it's not as if going out on the town means you are not living in your house. However there is a fine line. If the helper sleeps somewhere else on a regular basis, that would be considered living out.


Also I don't understand why she broke your trust by going to a club at night.

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