Posted by
doanni
13 yrs ago
What would you think and do if you searched your helper's name online and find a profile on facebook that is open to everyone (not only to "friends") and you see things like her in a Christmas party at an expat house with many other helpers (I have no idea whose house it is, and it is possible that the family allowed the helper to have a party with her friends, but I think it is very unlikely), photos of her with your kids (very naive and innocent photos, but still photos of your kids) and also all sort of complaints about her work (which in our case, she has little to complain about) and especially, insults to yourself, her employer, like "bit**"?
I was not very happy with all this.
I waited until we had other issues to confront her about this (as, in the meantime, I wanted to have that info sourse, in case I found other photos like parties in my house, or other insults to me or someone in my family....), but when I did confront her, all she could do is to act like offended because I had seen her facebook profile -I repeat, all open to everyone-.
Now, of course, instead of an apology (she does not think any of this is wrong) she has just made her profile private.
I cannot care less about the offences (it would only offend me if someone I love or care about insults me), but what do you think about this?
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HKM3
13 yrs ago
I would certainly care about about an offense to myself, and indirectly to my family, posted publicly - by someone sleeping under my roof. The lack of apology would upset me further. It's a betrayal and I would terminate her.
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Hello, my two cents about the matter is: whatever the helper does in her own personal free time is her business. Facebook is a social networking portal where people are free to broadcast what is going on with their personal life.
To see photos of your helper in FB with her friends is quite acceptable (it is the same as posting photos with colleagues from work in the office during lunch break). Where the pictures were taken, is also none of ones business, especially if one does not know for sure if the use of the premises were allowed or not. As for the photos of your children and her posts about her employer, even if you forbid her to do so, you have no control if she would post it or not. For as long as she does not name names it should be considered a blind item. If she starts to maliciously name drop you or other people you know, she can be sued for slander and oral defamation. (but still, what would you get out of it?)
I believe that this is not really the issue here. I can tell that neither you nor your helper is happy with your working situation. Ergo, she is looking for another employment (which by the way she has the right to do by all means) and you are getting pissed off with her mere presence in your house. (exaggerating here sorry)
Fire her within reasonable means and according to labour laws. You can always get someone else. Just my two cents.
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I agree with the posters above that your relationship with your helper sounds quite hostile (on both parts) and given that you have to live under the same roof, it does sound like you may be better off looking for a helper you like more.
I disagree that the helper is free to post anything she likes about her employer and employment situation. Even in a "regular" place of employment, employees have been fired for being indiscreet on Facebook -some cases involved indiscreet sharing of company info, others simply for slagging off the boss ( which would definitely apply in the OP's case!)
Moreover the employer is even more vulnerable as the helper is privy to all kinds of personal info and if they don't know to exercise discretion, could easily put your home at risk. (eg. posting about the employer being away on an open source forum could invite burglars etc)
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Hello housed, you are correct about not being FREE to posts anything about employers or employment. However, these things we do not have control over. Just like what doanni's helper did, she just kept her account private to other people not in her friend list. But still, her friends can read what she posts there. And who knows how many friends she has.
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Need some advice, I have also just found my helper has a fb page. She has put some very revealing photos of herself. With it, there are men from around the world commenting on her "assets". I can not abide with having someone like this in my house. It actually sicken me! I'm just wondering if I can terminate her on these grounds? Or do I need to provide the one month compensation and plane ticket home? Also what should I say in the termination letter? Do I need to provide her with a place to go to once I fire her? As for plane ticket, what date do I put the return date on? I would to buy the ticket for her before we fire her so that she does not have to return back to the home.
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On the one hand it is her own business. On the other hand it affects your work.
I would have a talk with her and ask her to take those pictures down from public sites. If she wants to show them privately to people that is another matter.
You can terminate but I don't think you could do it for cause. Therefor you would have to pay one month severance or keep her employed for a month.
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Well, at least the helper learned fast - by introducing privacy to her profile in facebook...
@hklifer: What is your problem with that? If she's pretty and advertises this, it's her own business. As long as she does not commence any receptions of the admirers in your home - so what?
By the way, can you pass me her mobile number? ;-)
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hklifer, I always believe that facebook is "private". It is a way friends can connect to other friends. Lots of teachers have a life outside of work as well. I know quite a few! Let her have her fun also, as long as it doesn't affect her work.
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I have read many threads regarding the "hired help" which always seems to provide inane expats with a common topic to break the ice with at tea parties, bridge club, book club or other social gathering which detract them from work or other more productive duties. I firmly believe that too many expat wives have far too much time on their hands to justify the services of a helper and here we have a prime example. It seems you have endless time to surf the web in search of dirt on the poor woman and then to waste time setting up a thread such as this. The constant threads of bitching and moaning about the helpers, as if they are some lower form of life, suggests these expats are likely frustrated, bored, lonely, miserable, contemptuous, menopausal, the list can go on and on.
Whilst all helpers are not angels, the constant invasion of their privacy by their "owners", is appalling. If you have nothing better to do why not either get rid of the helper and do your own house keeping, or better still get off your a** and go and volunteer for community service with a charity group. The helper is not a slave, nor your property, but in fact a human being, with needs wants dreams and rights, respect this. If your busybody mentality finds fault with her face book content, sit her down and suggest that certain things should be kept private, lest you find pictures of her with your husband. I should note that I have on numerous occasions provided both my house and garden as a venue for my helper and her friends to gather. This has never been abused and on each occasion my home was spotless upon conclusion of the event. I cannot hesitate to also deal the race card here, it is very often a situation where employers are unable to comprehend that there exist cultural differences, which they are unable to understand.
I was raised in apartheid South Africa and whilst we had an army of domestic help, one thing that was instilled in me from an early age by parents, was that these individuals were all people and my equal, just less privileged than myself and that I should never consider myself their superior, for any reason, including skin colour, culture or privilege. Can our community of Expats please not consider the same criteria, before taking the step to employing help.
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Nice speech, whitemischief. You can run for next elections, somewhere.
But this has nothing to do with the subject of the thread. Also, you have no idea how I, or the other people posting their opinions here, live our lives, whether we work or not, whether we do most of house chores or not, whether we look after our children or not,....you have no idea. Thanks for your demagogy. No needed.
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This shows a deep lack of respect toward u and ur family and given that trust would then become an issue , termination would be deemed the responsible choice in protecting ur family? Wouldn't u think?
So many soft hearted expats get taken advantage of by situations like this. Don't be an axxhole about it but don't let someone u are paying, give u any cause for grief!
My 2c...
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Aha, doanni2, that's your life, when intruding the private life of your employee and complain about her facebook profile? On top of it you do not dare to lecture other people about it, who tell you in clear words that you should respect the privacy of your employee? Whitemischief is absolutely correct, you should come to the conclusion that your domestic helper is not your slave, no matter how much you wish thus would be the case.
My recommendation to you: Go, get a life and learn first of all social behaviour!
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But what does slavery have to do with the fact that I do not think that posting online photos of my kids, or potentially photos of parties in my house? Not to mention insults to me. If you are ok with that, good for you. I am not.
What was a mistake was to open a thread about this or any other issue in this forum.
Thanks for the positive and useful replies.
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Doanni2, I wouldn't care about the pictures of her with her friends at whatever place she is at, that's none of my business but she would be let go for slagging me off. If she does it privately, or on the phone or via some medium where I can't find out, then so be it, but if she did it openly then she would have to go. I manage a large team and I would not tolerate that in my work place. Likewise my boss would not appreciate me slagging him off either. If life was that bad, its better we part ways.
About posting pics of your children, I would ask her to stop it. I don't want pictures of my children posted on the net, I don't do it myself and value our family's privacy and she should respect that (if that is your stance).
Just ignore the rude posters. If you see the posts in places like urbanbaby you will find there is a kind who likes to cut down posters no matter how genuine their concern or post is. I haven't seen the likes of it here on these expat forums before, but now have seen increasingly hostile posts here. sad really.
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Dear Doanni2, irrespective of whether you like it or not, the helper is entitled to her opinions and if she has an opinion about you, there is obviously a deep rooted problem between the two of you, she is however entitled to her freedom of thought , expression and speech.
What you may consider doing, is frankly discussing with her why she has these negative feelings towards you, as obviously you have done something to provoke her comments, it is then up to you to decide whether to salvage the situation and to either make amends or dismiss her. You have obviously motivated these feelings by some action or behavior. One thing you have not mentioned is whether you have said or done anything to the helper to provoke her comments about you, is there anything you could share regarding this?
You obviously have negative or hostile feelings towards her, this is evident from your decision to research her history by undertaking the internet search, as well as in your statement above, "potentially photos of parties in my house" which suggests that you making a wild assumption that she is going to throw parties in your house, you are essentially pre-judging her conduct.
It may be better for your sanity and the helpers welfare, that you terminate her employment, as you appear to have formulated your own opinions that she must have evil intentions and a strong desire to turn your home into a den of inequity for party-animal wayward serf's.
You should not consider it a shortcoming on your part, to have opened this thread, you may find that it is a useful tool to open your mind to more unorthodox and diverse concepts and ideas than you are familiar with. Also accept that the opinions of others may not always be those with which you agree, this is known as difference of opinion
As I believe it was Larry Flynt who once said, "Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one, and they all stink"
I any event, good luck with your hired help, and hopefully you will find a satisfactory solution.
Oh and by the way, you wouldn't by chance have a reliable recipe for a chocolate sponge?
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What a person does outside of work is there own business. Many expats think that domestic helpers are their slaves but they are not and are entitled to their personal lives. If you have an issue with her posting photos of your children you definitely have a right to tell her so. As for the remarks about you being a b**ch you can tell her if she doesn't like you to find someone else to work for or just terminate her employment if you feel threatened. I have an excellent relationship with my domestic helpers and former domestic helpers. We are friends on facebook and like family.
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WhiteMischief couldn't have said it better!
hklifer,
"Need some advice, I have also just found my helper has a fb page. She has put some very revealing photos of herself. With it, there are men from around the world commenting on her "assets". I can not abide with having someone like this in my house. It actually sicken me! I'm just wondering if I can terminate her on these grounds?"
Are you really that insecure? If your domestic helper chooses to post her photos online it really is NONE of your business. She isn't committing a crime is she?
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A few issues here -
1. If she wants to put up titillating pictures of herself, What has that to do with her ability to perform her job ? Exactly how bad are they ?...I thought FB would censor shots involving genitals or nipples.
It’s well known that maids with a desire for male companionship do offer themselves at various venues around Hong Kong on their day off... the request for a Saturday night off (e.g. “I’m going to sleep at my cousins” ) sometimes means she’s headed out to find a man for the night. Most of it is quite innocent, but some cases are rather sordid. Which is worse - hooking up with random men on Sundays or what she’s doing on FB ? I would be more worried about a maid who consummates her desires than one who likes to flirt on the internet.
2. She posts your kids pictures. You should ask them to be taken down. Hardly grounds for dismissal.
3. She calls you a B****. It seems the relationship has broken down, again, not legal grounds for dismissal.
I don’t think she’s done anything wrong, except post your children’s pictures without your approval. However, it seems the relationship between the two of you is strained. If you dismiss her you’ll need to pay her the full month + airfare.
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1. Bad idea on her posting the photos of your kids without your permission. I, forbid my sister from posting our nieces ( aged 5 and 9) photos unless it's a private album.
2. What she does on her own time , is her own business. as long as she do not do anything illegal that could endanger your family directly, she is an adult and should be treated as such.
3. Many employers I know, allow their helpers to have parties in their homes.
4. She's a woman, she is entitled to express her femininity/sensuality. If that means having provocative pictures, so be it. If she's daring enough to post it publicly, she will have to suffer the consequences later ( one was you finding and objecting to it). Mine will remain in password protected files *lol*
5. Does facebook has time stamp? if you see her constantly on it during working hours, then Houston, you may have a problem,.
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Hugie
13 yrs ago
Nice one whitemischief! I must have hundreds of photos on FB of........ dare I say it? Filipinas enjoying BBQ and sing songs at my house! And if you look carefully, one of them is my wife!!
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there are pros and cons of posting your life on a public social network. the cons are as above. on the other hand, public social networks such as fb provides prospective employers insights on what the domestic helper or prospective employee applying what he/she is really like and to gauge whether she/he would be a good fit for the family/organization
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"In Europe or the Americas you would hire through a agency that has done a background check and would verify their references."
True. But then Doanni should have checked her helper's background/done a facebook search BEFORE she hired her, like all the employers around the world. Then she would know whether or not her helper did the same with previous employers. Once hired, it's a legal employer-employee relationship for everyone irregardless of which country.
Thing is, I know quite a few teachers here in HK who are fantastic at their jobs (praises from the parents) that have quite an active night life.
And I'm not saying this is right, but for me, as an employer, I believe facebook is personal. My helper has facebook, she told me so and I have not even bothered to look at hers. Would it bother me if she called me a B*$%? Truthfully, yes it would really hurt me. So that is why I don't look at her facebook.
I know some employers write about their helpers on facebook too.
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it's like wire tapping is inadmissable by court (in some country), facebook can also be manipulated, anybody can make a bogus fb account. on the other hand it is also not healthy stalking to someone else life.
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