Advice Needed Pregnant Domestic Helper in HK

Posted by 1234HK 12 yrs ago

Hi,

I was hoping for some advice. Our helper has announced she's 17 weeks pregnant with her first child. Despite the fact she is hardworking, reliable, and honest she is assuming she will go back to the Philippines 2 months before her due date and then return 3 months after she has had her baby.

A total of 5 months is not realistic for us. I understand we must pay her 10 weeks maternity pay which is fine but because she wants to have her baby in the Philippines she would have to fly at 7 months. Obviously we need to have a discussion with her about the finer details but what I really want to know is what rights does she have, and also what rights to we have as an employer.

I only receive 10 weeks maternity leave so its difficult to say yes to 5 months. Is there any Government section that we can get advice from?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

dazzle09 12 yrs ago

There's probably a deeper issue

1234HK 12 yrs ago

I got one reply. Not to the question I asked. Therefore I reposted for further advice as I wanted to know the rights of both employer and employee or where to find it. Obviously I've contacted the immigration department. Forums are supposed to be for advice not judgemental.

souffleQueen 12 yrs ago

She has to go when she must , check with the airlines how far into the pregnancy will they allow her to fly. As for coming back, 10 weeks is like 2.5 months, so two weeks more perhaps won't hurt that much . It's up to you if it will be a paid or not, as it is her desire, not yours .

A compromise is needed here. Can you let her have the 3 months off after delivery if she stays longer prior ? If she wanted to leave two months before, then she must come back after the 10 weeks leave. Otherwise you will terminate the contract (yes, you can, AFTER her maternity leave).

Try to sit down with her and tell her you understand where she is coming from, but she also need it to understand from your point of view.

1234HK 12 yrs ago

Thanks Beancurd and SouffleQueen. Your advice has been helpful. Yes we probably would be fine with 2 months before and 2 months after. She is so good we wouldn't want her to leave us. Do you have any experience of how most helpers cope after leaving their baby behind. Its such a difficult time for them, just want to know how to best support her. She will be a single mother although has support from her family.

1234HK 12 yrs ago

Thanks again beancurd. I wouldn't ask her to come back after a month after the birth but maybe 2. We gave her a laptop to use when she first moved in with us so she uses Skype most evenings. She doesn't have to work late or do baby sitting so hopefully that would help with keeping in touch with her family.

I do have one more question. Are we responsible for paying for her flight back to the Philippines or the cost of the birth? She has had 3 visits back in 2 1/2 years for a month each time which we paid for and also paid her salary too whilst she was away.

Watson 11 yrs ago

Hi,

I would just like to know how this sorted itself out for you, your DH and the baby in the end ? We are in a similar situation with our helper, so any advice from the 'other side of the hurdle' would be gratefully received !!

1234HK 11 yrs ago

Hi Watson,

We had a long chat with her and she felt that she wanted to return in January which would have been 6 months in total. So unfortunately she resigned and left as we couldn't accommodate her for 6 months. We obviously paid her, her maternity leave plus more so that she would be comfortable. It was a very hard moral decision but she has had her baby and is enjoying her time with her baby. She still plans to return to Hong Kong as a helper but not with us. I hope your situation works out. One thing to note on a practical side is that she needed a doctors certificate to say she could fly within the week of her flight. The local hospital that she had been going to would not issue one or even give her, her medical records until we asked for them. They still wouldn't issue a certificate so we took her to a private obstetrician who then wrote one for her. She flew home just 2 months before her due date.

Hope all works out for you.

lagrue 11 yrs ago

Cara, I think it is sweet of you to try to support your helper so that she might be able to raise her child here. I just wish there were more moms out there who would if they could, particularly as I am sure they enjoy the benefits of living with their lovely children. Please let us know how it goes.

malka take a look at this link

http://www.clic.org.hk/en/topics/immigration/for_non_residents/q1.shtml

Certain categories of person, including foreign domestic helpers, are not permitted to sponsor dependants to reside in Hong Kong. However, domestic helpers who have children while living in Hong Kong may be able to gain permission for them to remain.

Its a shame, if I could I would support my helper to have her daughter live here with her. She was born in the Phillipines. Please share if any others have had any success.

daffyhk 11 yrs ago

This conversation is so unreal, you guys, if the helpers keep their baby with them then who's going to manage your house???? No one! Get real! So you will be paying her to take care of her baby, period.

GemmaW 11 yrs ago

Cara, you've been wonderful to all your helpers. I remember that you even allow their families to fly over and stay with you. But with such generosity, you now have to deal with a pregnant helper, maternity leave and minimal amount of help while she's pregnant and after she delivers. She MAY even decide to resign because she wants time with her baby.

It's great that you are fine with this. I guess it helps if either parent is home to help out. If you work and have 2 or more kids, this would be awful. Not that we don't care, but it would be hard for a helper to cope with 2 or more of our kids AND her own newborn. And of course, she'd care about her newborn more.

But as I've said, in your case, it's probably okay coz one parent is home which means she's able to care for her newborn and then I guess if she's sending her newborn back to the Phillipines after 2 months, it would be okay too. It's just a couple of months hardwork for you and your hubby, then it'll be fine again.

For the rest of us working mothers, it would be a nightmare :-(

lagrue 11 yrs ago

I tend to see things from a different perspective. I think any employee, be it a helper or any other type, if they are great at what they do are worth their weight in gold, and although the relationship is still employer/employee, you do want the best for your employee. So I have enjoyed my children, and enjoyed them being around me, so if I could I would want that for someone I valued as an employee and a person.

I would hope if the shoe was on the other foot that I might meet someone who would be understanding towards me and what I might need as a person.

Thing is, I would hate to work for a boss who was all about getting every possible bit of work out of me with little regard for me as a person whether I performed or not. And superficial 'pretend' caring is pretty easy to see through i.e. thinking you are generous because you give your helper the old clothes you no longer want or gifts you have no need for.

Real giving requires some degree of sacrifice. I think cara is doing just that. She's a pretty savy mama, I'm sure she knows it'll involve more work for her personally, she'll also have to contend to a messier home, maybe her kids have to do more for themselves, BUT I'm guessing she is okay with that, just in the same way she is okay with her helpers family coming to stay with her, because she genuinely cares, enjoys giving and is able to. I don't think she is counting the ways her generosity has been repaid with hassle.

It may not be for everyone but I do think that it would be possible for more people if they were open to the idea. Case in point, I know of a DH (DH of my friend) who had a baby in HK. When she was young, she had a fellow filliino family take care of her baby during the day time hours so she could work (she drives), and paid them. At night she would go and pick up the baby. It was very hard for her but the child is now 10 years old and clearly it becomes easier as time passes. I don't know this DH well but she (to me) shows her charges great love, she's very focused and organised, and is a happy person. I see no neglect towards her duties and perhaps a more balanced, fulfilled person is a better employee? who knows.

Finally, sometimes a negative can become something with a silver lining. I often think I outsource too much to my helpers. If the helper was taking care of their little one in the evenings then I would be forced to do more for my little ones and there could only be closeness that comes from that.

Just some food for thought.

lagrue 11 yrs ago

btw malka thanks for the link, it was an interesting read.

GemmaW 11 yrs ago

Lagrue, thank you for your perspective. What you said is true. We too would hope that if the shoe was on the other foot, we would hope that our employers would be as understanding towards us as well and that they'd look after our interests as a person instead of just the job.

Malka, thank you also for your article showing the helper's side of the story.

I agree that we owe it to our own employees (helpers) to care for them as a human being and to see to their needs.

However, as much as we would like to do so, it's also very true that it is not for everybody. I'm sure the majority of HK bosses would not let their employees take time off or go home early just because their helpers have just had a baby or is pregnant. HK employers are obliged to give their employees 10 weeks maternity leave... but they aren't obliged to give their employees 10 weeks leave for their helper's pregnancy/baby.

I really wonder if something can be done to help both the employers and the employees in such a situation. The majority of Hongkongers who employ helpers may not be able to afford part time help as well during this period (if we think about the average salary of a hongkonger).

While the article that Malka recommended above talked about negotiations between an employer and helper, I really see no way out for the majority.

I would think that Cara's decision to help her helper is ony feasible for a stay at home mother, a mother who could work from home or have flexible hours, a mother who works part time or a mother who's well paid enough to hire a part-timer or a second helper. Or a mother who owns her own business and is her own boss.

Not an easy issue to solve....

Sissi.B 11 yrs ago

Good evening! I see a lot of really great comments in this threat! Lovely too hear such good stories at a time when we hear so much about abused helpers. All of you who care about your helpers and support their rights as workers, please take a look at the new campaign that some of my friends and I are working on, www.HKhelperscampaign.com - what we ask to HK government is that helpers are treated equally to all other foreign workers in Hong Kong, and are protected from any form of abuse to happen. Please also see www.justiceforerwiana.com, and give your support if you can!

Sissi.B 11 yrs ago

Good evening! I see a lot of really great comments in this threat! Lovely too hear such good stories at a time when we hear so much about abused helpers. All of you who care about your helpers and support their rights as workers, please take a look at the new campaign that some of my friends and I are working on, www.HKhelperscampaign.com - what we ask to HK government is that helpers are treated equally to all other foreign workers in Hong Kong, and are protected from any form of abuse to happen. Please also see www.justiceforerwiana.com, and give your support if you can!

lagrue 11 yrs ago

cara I hope your generosity of spirit is repaid many times over!

gmckail 11 yrs ago

I was in the same situation a few months ago. Our helper became pregnant. At first I had mixed emotions. Her contract was ending in a months time. My wife and I talked about it extensively. In the end, we decided to renew her contract while she was 4 months pregnant. She continued to do her work, and on the morning of October 28th 2013, she knocked on our bedroom door and told us it's time. We now have a beautiful baby boy living in our home. My wife and I love him very much. Our helper continues to do her work, and as someone mentioned earlier, as long as the house is tidy, and dinner is made, she can spend time with her baby and relax. We are all very happy. Her husband paid for all the medical expenses so we did not have this burden, but even if we did, it is so inexpensive to have a baby here through the public system, it would have been no problem for us.

GemmaW 11 yrs ago

Wow! Kudos to cara and you, gmckail!

This wouldn't work for me because I have a baby under 1 and she's the only adult at home. It'll be like looking after twins single-handedly. It's fine if she's very capable and very organised... but definitely tough. It would be unfair for her to attend to my baby first instead of her own or vice-versa. And to add, I have a toddler. Not unheard of with mothers having 3 kids under 3 but not easy to entrust your kids to a helper. It's just not the same.

It's okay if the kids are older or teenagers, but by then, most probably don't need a helper.

Sapphire 11 yrs ago

I take my hat off to employers who are more than happy to do this, but I would imagine that they are in the minority for a variety of reasons. GemmaW makes a very good point as to why many families with babies, or young children would not want to do this. Then there's the issue of space (or lack of it!) in many Hong Kong homes.

I, on the other hand, have grown up children - however, I would have absolutely no desire whatsoever to take in the baby, or child, of an employee ... My days of having babies/young children living in the house, with the mess and noise they can create, are well and truly over. Now those days are behind me, I like my house organized, clean and tidy, my bathrooms cleaned daily and my clothes ironed well... that's what I pay my helper to do, and she does a brilliant job. She wouldn't be able to do the job to the standard I require with a baby in tow, so there wouldn't be any point in me employing her. Just like how I wouldn't have been able to do my job properly if I'd taken my kids to work with me ...

At the end of the day, each to their own ... but I really can't imagine many employers willing to do this.

lagrue 11 yrs ago

gmckail I love that you were able to do this for your helper! Warms my heart to hear these stories. I hope one day I will be able to pay forward the good fortune I have been blessed with in my life!

lagrue 11 yrs ago

I agree its not for everyone but I think if you were open to the idea one 'could make it happen'

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Need Advice about Pregnant Helper

Posted by 1234HK 12 yrs ago

dazzle09 12 yrs ago

1234HK 12 yrs ago

souffleQueen 12 yrs ago

1234HK 12 yrs ago

1234HK 12 yrs ago

Watson 11 yrs ago

1234HK 11 yrs ago

lagrue 11 yrs ago

daffyhk 11 yrs ago

GemmaW 11 yrs ago

lagrue 11 yrs ago

lagrue 11 yrs ago

GemmaW 11 yrs ago

Sissi.B 11 yrs ago

Sissi.B 11 yrs ago

lagrue 11 yrs ago

gmckail 11 yrs ago

GemmaW 11 yrs ago

Sapphire 11 yrs ago

lagrue 11 yrs ago

lagrue 11 yrs ago

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