Hong Kong Finds New Maids to Exploit

With Indonesians, like Filipinas, having become too aware of their rights, HK turns to Bangladesh


http://asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5649&Itemid=204

Incredible! What a blow to SCMP.

Typical bad economics in that article.


Underpaid? How does one classify underpaid? The maid voluntarily agrees to work for this salary, so how is she underpaid? The only time the term underpaid should be used is if the employer unilaterally breaks contracted terms and pays a salary less than was voluntarily agreed upon.


Exploitation is term that is used erroneously and purposefully to incite emotions and biases - it carries no logical or rational information but is just a loaded word to stir emotions that overwhelms logical thought. How does one define exploitation - paying less for something than you would be willing to? Nearly every transaction I make each day would then classify as exploitative - when I buy apples at the supermarket I'd in fact be willing to pay much more for them than I do, but does that mean I've exploited the Park'n'Shop? Where are the inflammatory articles about how all consumers exploit the producers?


The reality is clear and simple - these new maids voluntarily have agreed to work this labor at wages and benefits outlined in their contracts. Just because we Westerners think the work is tough or poorly paid does not mean it should not be allowed - what a Bangladeshi maid voluntarily chooses to do for her employer is none of our business, so we should get back on our high-horses and ride off, leaving the voluntarily consenting adults to manage their own personal affairs.

It's not very good to compare apples and oranges Lucane, worse when apples are compared to people.

My comment on apples is meant to be humorous to show the absurdity of the notion of exploitation. But if you want to compare people to people then let's just examine your typical HK employee / employer scenario.


Boss Lee wants to hire an analyst and is willing to pay up to $15k HKD, but puts out a job ad stating $13k HKD. Graduate Wong is willing to take a starting position at $10k but applies to the ad for $13k HKD. Both sides agree to this deal and Boss Lee hires Graduate Wong at $13k a month. But let's look at what happened here - Boss Lee is paying Graduate Wong less than he was actually willing to pay. And similarly so, Graduate Wong is demanding more money from Boss Lee than Graduate Wong actually required. Both sides are exploiting each other, oh the humanity! Quick, someone find a sensationalist journalist to write an inflammatory article about this exploitation taking place.


There, I've compared people to people.

Can you try to adding each employee (1) lives with the employer, (2) needs to get out of HK every two years, (3) work 12 hours a day, etc. ?


It may become more realistic, you know.

I get what Lucane is saying but I have to disagree with a lot of it. Sure, they agree to a set wage, but what happens is many employers end up exploited them by making them work 15 to 16 hours a day, with one day off. And even on that day off, they have to work in the morning, then return in the evening and work again. They often cannot rest, and sometimes are not given meals because the employer wants to keep them busy. Also, many helpers are not given a day off and sometimes work straight through for months. They can get out of course, but if they do, the agencies charge them thousands to help them get another employer and they need to exit thus having to pay for travel expenses.


The contracts are usually very vague so saying that everything is agreed to upfront is not entirely correct. If they knew this upfront, they would probably move on.


Many report abuse to the labour department, but in most cases, the labour department will side with their fellow chinese citizens. Sometimes due to lack of education, a domestic helper with not fight because they are afraid of the repercussions.

punter,


1) You mean the impoverished people not only get free housing, but housing of quality far superior to what they came from in their impoverished countries? Oh the humanity.


2) Once every 2 years, all expenses paid? Sounds great to me. I've done work in foreign countries before where I had to leave every few months at my own expense.


3) Works 12 hour days? If that is so terrible then why do these people travel across the globe to work here? Perhaps because the work they did in their home countries was either A) worse B) paid less C) non-existent. Besides, I know many Hong Kongers who work far more than 12 hours a day and that is inside an office building, not a cushy home. Go talk to any iBanker or real estate agent about their hours and then tell me how it is more demanding than cleaning a house (of which the real estate agent still finds time to do himself after he gets home at 11pm at night after a 14 hour work day).


Let's think about all the benefits these maids get. They get a fixed guaranteed salary, one that is often literally 10x what they are able to realistically earn in their home countries. Salaries and jobs are far from guaranteed or available in poor countries, so having a contracted salary is a godsend to them. They get free medical coverage, and not only that but it is in a country with highly advanced and skilled medical technicians - what type of treatment do you think a Bangladeshi maid would receive in Bangladesh compared to here? These maids also get food allowances and reliable schedules of food - people in poor countries cannot rely upon there always being a fridge full of food or a grocery market 2 minutes away, but they can always rely upon that in Hong Kong. They work in and commute on infrastructure that is safe and reliable - when was the last time a building sporadically collapsed in Hong Kong? How does that compare to the frequency at which factories and residential buildings collapse in the third world?


The reason there are so many maids in Hong Kong is because it is so much far superior to live here as a maid than it is to live in their home countries. You think a closet is a small bedroom for a maid? Go look at your average poor Bangladeshi home - it is literally a shack made out of scrap trash, often housing 5-10 people in its one room that lacks any plumbing or hygienic features. The maids here might get yelled at by their bosses? Do you think life in Bangladesh is gum drops and lollipops where all the poor people treat each other like best friends all day long? Life in impoverished countries is rough and tough and people do not have time to think about pleasantries like "other's feelings" or "sexual harassment." Go see how a woman is treated there and then compare it to Hong Kong.


The overseas maid program has been going on for decades and has been immensely successful. Do you think there are literally hundreds of thousands here because they are all incompetent and unaware of this evil "exploitation" and after decades they still have not figured it out? No! They continue to come here because no matter how bad you think it is here for them, it is actually magnitudes superior than the life they left behind in their home countries. On top of that this maids not only raise their personal quality of life by working here but they are also able to support multiple family members with their "meager" salaries.


If you are angry about the treatment maids get here, you should instead redirect your anger towards why their home countries suck so hard. Because no matter how bad you think the maids have it here, where they came from is far worse.

gmckail,


These people are not incompetent or alone. Most maids have multiple family members working in HK and other numerous friends here. They also generally work here for not only years but decades. It is no mystery to foreign maids that when they arrive in HK they will need to work long and hard hours and that the boss might act very harshly to them.


And yet they still come, perhaps because, as I noted above, this is still a far superior life than it is to stay at their home country.

honestly .. I already knew that gonna happen to the helper from Bangladesh. most of them were recruited by Chinese minimum income.. as a helper I suffered a lot in my first time deployment here. even we are violated by our employer we need to keep quiet. under paid yes it happen if you are first timer we have no choice but to accept our fate other wise we will lost our job. we need to hang on as long as we can because we spend a huge amount of money for our agency fees .. like us Filipinos we spend not less than 100,000 pesos same as all FDH.. You employers spend not less than HK$ 3,000 for hiring helper. but after few days , months if you are not satisfied with the helper job because they are new you terminate the contract and leave the helper in turmoil.. most of the abused helper are new comers because even they know their rights they have no guts to fight for it.. Technic Agency is also a scam and that agency deploys Bangladesh.. the immigration said in the contact that the employer must give 3 months probation to the new helper esp. new one but that didn't follow. once we are terminated we need to go back to same agency and re apply again and it cost HK$7,000 or more . the government said just 10% of our salary but that also didn't follow.. so I think the Bangladesh consulate need to investigate first before the other batch of helpers come..

Sir /Miss Malka

everything are set by the government only the agency violated it.. like the agency in Hong Kong they are not suppose to charge the helper not more 10% of their first month salary same as the Philippines agency .. but because aside from the money that agencies collected from employer who hire the helper they asked other amount from Philippines agency .. so Phil agency have no choice but to charge it to their applicant.


and because the Phil. govt now stricted with no placement fee policy .. agency in hongkong looks for other alternative like to hire Bangladeshi..


and about helper working condition listed in immigration policy.. helper must entitled to have a 8 hours rest with 24 hours and most of the employer didn't follow it.. .. if the helper get up early because she need to attain the need of her ward or employer .. she is entitled a couple of hours in noon time to rest if she retired late in the evening.. but most employer let their helper work every single cent for the salary they paid for here.. as my provious employment im not allowed to slept not until all of my employer sleep..and I need to got up early next morning but im not entitled to take rest in noon time even the kids are at school.

I have a helper. It makes my family "operate" smoothly. I pay her correctly and on time. In general, she has a tolerable life here in HK. I hope that she saves enough money that when she decides to go home, she has enough so that she doesn't have to come back. I agree that helpers have a choice not to come here. I agree that working here as helpers is actually better for most of them than staying in their home countries without jobs, or in jobs that are very low paying even in their 3rd world home countries' standards.


But if you look at the article, what is there to say but agree that 10 out of 50 failures is a massive failure?

"" With in 24 hours"

"But if you look at the article, what is there to say but agree that 10 out of 50 failures is a massive failure?"


I would say it is an erroneous data point? 50 is hardly a good sample size - its error range is quite large. When we are talking about millions of potential Bangladeshi maids and hundreds of thousands of foreign maids already in HK, it isn't valid to take such a small sample size and postulate the entire program to be a dismal failure.

50 is the universe set (at this point). How about the comment on how a "respected" paper reports? Do you think it's acceptable too?

HK is taking advantage of "diaspora" to solve its own problem of not having a 40 hr a week work limit. Those who come here are dreaming of making a better life back home where the money they earn goes waaay farther than here in our inflated economy.

The problem in MHO is when the governments put themselves into this equation. For example, the Phil has instituted a ZERO placement policy for hiring a Filipino. The ER bears the full burden of the cost. So if the girl quits they are out all that money again.

Why not make it bearable for everyone by charging flat fees to girls...say one months salary for each the employee and the employer plus the fixed costs under the terms of the contract? This is too simple for the bureaucratic minds of both HK AND Phil to get their tiny minds around.

Then if the agencies don't comply, they are fined and or closed.

Done and dusted...

Re the article from the link from ED ..Was anyone else bothered by the repeated use of "brown skin" as referenced to who can be a helper in HK? Also why wasn't the name of the reporter printed?

That article was pretty smug and neglected to look at both sides. Sure there are people whom abuse the system and do not follow the laws etc. They should be punished.


Keep in mind that the respective governments of the countries whom the helpers come from are complicit in all of this. Ever heard of corruption? Agencies are made to follow rules put in place by consulates and no doubt there is some funny business going on at that level.


If anything, I applaud the HK govt for at least setting some rules for helpers once they get here and sign contracts.


Paying 7 months or whatever to get hired is no doubt taking advantage of the helpers. Who gets this money? Agents and...............surprise surprise - the corrupt government staff of the countries the helpers come from.


If you hire a helper, then do what's right and treat them with respect and fairness. No more, no less.


What about places like Singapore, Taiwan, Saudi, Malaysia etc that also hire laborers from Indonesia, Phil, etc? How does HK government laws compare with those places for helpers? what about how employers treat helpers there?


HK is not perfect, but the growth in helpers coming here indicates that it's not as bad as The Sentinel is painting it to be.


Slagging the SCMP and writers there..........that's just petty and juvenile.


Who cares what they are printing - especially if what the Sentinel is reporting is good and brings in readers? Golden rule is do not bad-mouth your competition in front of clients. That's not a recipe for success.


And yeah....why did the writer not put name to that?

Malka,

you said:

What I hear from Marilag is the laws are fine generally but violations like employers not behaving, not following the reasonable 10% agency fee - all that can't be laid at the door of the govt.


My response is

The laws regulating the charges or fees are set by the government Not the industry itself. Because of corruption and an inability (or distaste for) enforcing the regulations I am sorry but I DO lay this at the door of the govt.

I am simply suggesting that something that is measurable and realistic for both sides AND the agencies (who many blame for all the problems) have the bar clearly set and be made accountable. Receipts and reporting if necessary.


Remember the tourist agencies and their fake charges? The regulatory commission actually made regulations and enforced them.


Re 40 hour work week is my way of saying that HK has few boundaries and little compassion for families with children. With a small child attending school and high and higher rents requiring two incomes. Unless one has an extended family living here in HK to offer support. HK does not provide much in the way of childcare, then what is the average person to do?

There are no day are facilites that are available for long hours that would be required to cover the normal wokring day of a HK person.